SappaZ

Why I think third person would be a game breaker

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I cannot wait for the full release of this game and I hope it breaks all sorts of records, but there’s one thing I’ve dreaded ever since watching the first in-game footage, this one thing has now been on my mind all day and after reading a few posts asking for its implementation I feel the need to write this.

This thing is third person, and no it’s not because I hate third person games... Hell, I’ve played every gears of war and grand theft auto to date; they’re all great games that do third person right, but I don’t believe third person is meant for multiplayer survival games what so ever. Now before you go all up and arms let me explain myself here.

I’ve spent hours upon hours playing games such as H1Z1, Rust, Miscreated, the forest, 7 days to die, WarZ (also known as Infestation Stories AKA the flop), and so on. I even ran a small group in the DayZ mod for Arma II focused on hunting bandits, so I have a bit of experience with hardcore survival/looting games.

Saying that and to spare some time I’ll jump right into why I feel third person would be a game breaker:
 

Realism/Immersion- I think this one speaks for itself, it might be a cool concept to see your character and the clothing they’re wearing, but the Devs have stated in their FAQs that they want this game to be as realistic and hardcore as possible. When you only see your arm movements and weapon animations as they play out in front of you the game feels deeper, like you’re playing the character, seeing out of their eyes, and controlling their actions. This ends up causing you to plan your movement more, study each possible path around you, and anticipate obstacles that are out of your vision and/or in your peripherals . 

Over Powered - I love DayZ, both the mod and standalone, and yes I even played WarZ a bit before it was swarmed by hackers, but go look at those two games and as an example watch a few of their combat videos. I guarantee you that, unless they’re using a sniper, no one will be using first person and everyone will be using third person to peak around corners without exposing themselves. You’ll probably see people glancing over walls, out of windows, and through doorways without a single body part being exposed to the enemy player.

Extraction points- Right now I hear tons of people complaining about the campers who choose to pitch a tent near extraction points, most complaints coming from the factory map where these points are behind doors that can be easily camped, and now let’s just picture this with third person. Now not only can these campers hear you approaching, but they’ll be able to see you from around the corner. Next thing you know camping extractions will become the prime way to get loot. Sure you could de-pin a nade and toss it in, but if they can see you from around the corner what’s stopping them from running away before the nade even leaves your hand, only to return once the explosion has gone off, now I bet your guard will really be down.

Lower risk with Equal reward- If third person becomes a part of the game what will end up being the point of going into first person (besides for long distance firefights)? You’ll not only be running at a disadvantage, but you won’t be getting any more XP or better loot. If it’s safer to play 3rd person in an already extremely difficult game why even bother with 1st ? You could reward players for playing first person, but that reward probably wouldn’t out way the shitty feeling you end up with when buddy split second pops from behind a corner with a shotgun and one hits you.  

Splitting the community behind the game- Sure you could create two types of servers, one for 1st person view and one for 3rd person like in H1Z1 and WarZ, but in both those games the community was split and first person was the first to die off, not because it wasn’t any fun, but because it was much more rewarding short term to play 3rd person and way more risky to play 1st person. Not to mention the devs focused on 3rd person, leaving the 1st person view clunky in a way. In the long term the reward from playing the game wasn’t as high. I could also see players getting all their loot from 3rd person servers before jumping into 1st person fully geared up.

No more sneaking up behind someone- In dayZ sneaking up behind someone with an axe was a death wish, even if you knew they were low on heath. This was because their 3rd person camera would reveal you before you were in striking distance of them.

Loss of Strategy- In games like Cod, Bf1, and CS:Go players use split second strategies, much like chess on speed, to plan out attacks. When two players spot each other they have different plays to take, you could try to flank them, if your enemy hears movement they could get ready for that flank or attempt to chase you, you could throw a nade and run in, or you could peek the corner with your weapon at the ready aiming towards your enemy… Now with 3rd person the strategies revolve around slow and campy plays, why would you chase or attempt to flank if you know the enemy could be watching you from behind a corner and waiting for you to get close before peeking and firing. Staying in a room and waiting it out while watching around corners would be the best strategy in this case.

Here are some great references:

 

 

How must firefights play out:

Youtube - DayZ - Firefight

 

Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/3zfc6j/why_do_everyone_prefer_3rd_person_view/

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If the aim is hardcore realism then it should be first person only as soon as a player spawns into a map.

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It's been brought up multiple times but 3rd person servers if they are still to be implemented will likely have no progression, no saving.

We don't know exact details but that's how devs described it before, basically you won't be able to progress in the raids, they will be separate from first person servers, so no one will be able to get an upper hand by simply switching to 3rd person.

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11 hours ago, Drakkaar said:

It's been brought up multiple times but 3rd person servers if they are still to be implemented will likely have no progression, no saving.

We don't know exact details but that's how devs described it before, basically you won't be able to progress in the raids, they will be separate from first person servers, so no one will be able to get an upper hand by simply switching to 3rd person.

If that's the case I'Llcapudina@gmail.com be more than happy. 

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both are not perfect, i've seen some pretty nice peeking animations threw doors with gun but peeking around a wall/corner with just your eye or eye's and all the way around with just a little of your head showing isn't something i've seen a game do yet which is realistic

 

of course these are games and i bet the devs will mess around with animations and perspective cameras to maybe even have this head peeking realistic peek around walls without showing most of your body/gun like in every game that does first person

Edited by smo0ths

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I strongly prefer first person only. Third person viewing takes a major amount of skill out of a game like this, imo. Situational awareness is useless when your enemy can look around a wall without being able to be seen. Maybe implement a mirror device or something if people want to peek around things. I'm fine with third person being on a separate server of course.

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No to 3rd person full stop. It will only make people migrate to 3rd person only servers when those servers become more popular as they always do. 

 

Edited by Fopeyducker

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I've always thought that the very reason why these Arma games (and their respective mods) have the said 3rd person view is simply because the 1st person view can be bit clunky at times, and thus almost requires to have a 3rd person view available to assist on that. Escape From Tarkov doesnt have that clunkyness to it, thankfully, so it would not really serve as big of a purpose.

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11 hours ago, Fopeyducker said:

No to 3rd person full stop. It will only make people migrate to 3rd person only servers when those servers become more popular as they always do.

^^ This!

If they don't make 3rd person servers seriously gimped most of the people will play on those servers.

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Exactly. I feel like people get so use to the safety net with 3rd person from other games. Why play first of third is easier? 

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On 1/17/2017 at 6:53 AM, Necto said:

^^ This!

If they don't make 3rd person servers seriously gimped most of the people will play on those servers.

See Below.

On 1/15/2017 at 9:41 PM, Drakkaar said:

It's been brought up multiple times but 3rd person servers if they are still to be implemented will likely have no progression, no saving.

We don't know exact details but that's how devs described it before, basically you won't be able to progress in the raids, they will be separate from first person servers, so no one will be able to get an upper hand by simply switching to 3rd person.

 

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3rd personing would be a horrid idea in a game like this, Realism is one of the main staples of this game.....But with that being said tactical RC drones that can be piloted/or shot down by players would be very nice, Just a suggestion.

 

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3rd Person has defenetly to stay out of this game. In my opinion it would take a lot of the intense immersion out of this game. would be katastrophic

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I'm glad this has been addressed. Hardcore and 3rd person separate servers sound good, no progression in 3rd person is even better.

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Third person is stupid. CAMERA CAMPING ADVANTAGE is dumb. It's not balanced, it's for children.

 

Thankfully it will not be a thing in Tarkov. Don't even mention it or the kiddies will come out crying for it.

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SappaZ,

I really like that you point this out again, because I fully agree as it (3rd person) can also include the camera glitching through floors and revealing the approach of an enemy. Right now the thrill is always when you don't know 100% where two or more people are coming from. You can focus on the noise of one person and even that raises my heart rate. I love that about this game!

Also, I find that the ONLY thing needed to be adjusted, is the range of motion you can do with the free look. ATM it appears your head is that of a bison, which can't turn their head much. In real life, even with gear, I can look over my shoulder!

I think that is all we need for a better experience. I would not appreciate 3rd person at all.

Great post, good detail.

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Don't want to be a crybaby, but I do believe a third person is a no and shouldn't be a thing in this game, taking into account all the characteristics and movements you can do in the game. I believe this game is about how you react and approach things. How you peek over the corners, the aiming etc. By looking at the way the game works I cant imagine how it is going to work. 

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If the game is really as hardcore as it seems, third person or First person shouldnt be a problem. I prefer the first person better, for aiming and gameplay reason, but a good third person camera can be good. I know i'll get alot of critics for the comparation but, The Division Survival mod was a arcady survival mode with a good gameplay. So why not wait and see what the Third person perspective will look like ! :)

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4 hours ago, Kovrone said:

[...]

 

3 hours ago, SnitchMoJo said:

[...]

 

On 1/19/2017 at 2:04 AM, Sarosin said:

[...]

 

On 1/19/2017 at 4:07 PM, W4r_Bug said:

[...]

 

 Felt I'd tag each of you, 3rd person servers will be SEPARATE from first person servers.. Seperate ruleset (Probably no save progress) as it was discussed previously across the forums.  

Hopes this helps clear up any confusion and worry - You won't be running into people camping corners in 3rd person while you're enjoying first person, just won't happen, not unless you join a 3rd person server.

Edited by Drakkaar

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1 hour ago, Drakkaar said:

 

 

 

 

 Felt I'd tag each of you, 3rd person servers will be SEPARATE from first person servers.. Seperate ruleset (Probably no save progress) as it was discussed previously across the forums.  

Hopes this helps clear up any confusion and worry - You won't be running into people camping corners in 3rd person while you're enjoying first person, just won't happen, not unless you join a 3rd person server.

3rd Person Combat is unrealistic and provides an avenue of manipulating visibility of yourself and opponents are able to respond in kind. It's cheesy. It might be fun to some, but it's just a big ol cheddar ball. With that said, I recognize that BSG is going to do whatever will result in the most sales and highest viral opinion purchases. The fear-mongers of this possibility (ME) find it highly likely that if 2 different server types are introduced  but without a deliberate reduction to usefulness for 3rd Person servers will result in an imbalance in server populations and hurt the game as a whole. I hold a hatred akin to religious ideology when it comes to 3rd Person view. Cutting populations into two distinct groups of acceptable play-style creates a division I really don't want to see. Furthermore, it's completely inappropriate for the advertised genre of the game. Just my 2 cents.

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8 minutes ago, PsiShock101 said:

[...]Cutting populations into two distinct groups of acceptable play-style creates a division I really don't want to see. Furthermore, it's completely inappropriate for the advertised genre of the game. Just my 2 cents.

Agree'd, I'd be happier with 3rd person completely removed.. And we're still in Alpha so it's not to say that 3rd person will stay..

As of right now, my understanding is that 3rd person servers will be more like "private lobby's"  

No progress will be made (Can't do the raid's in 3rd person mode, nothing saves, no gear kept..) Similar to doing Offline mode atm. So splitting the community shouldn't be too big of a problem.. I see 3rd person servers as more of a " 'Fun' TDM style" if you would.

Edited by Drakkaar

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one thing , i really like to see the game on 3rd person , the game looks super cool , just only to get a good screen shot no more or less , but not game play sure i am with you , this game is hardcore .

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