CTWombat

Scav on Scav violence

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There needs to be something in place to deter scav on scav violence. I propose that killing another scav as a scav (wether its a player or an ai) will result in a longer timer such as 1hr30min or 2hr instead of 1hr. This could also be expanded on by making it so if get attacked by another scav (take damage first) then kill them you dont recieve the penalty (self-defense). Do you guys have any ideas to reduce this needless scav on scav violence.

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I know the pain of spawning in as a scav and getting either spawn killed or killed later while looting or waiting in ambush for players.

I don't think the devs will change or add a punishment system as scavs are like apocalypse survivors some will band together and others will kill everything that moves.

Its just how people choose to play the game.

Some of the ideas my friend and I have were making the spawn points dynamic so if a player or scav player are near the spawn point about to be used the game moves you to another location so you get a chance to survive the initial encounter.

As for killing other scavs maybe make the AI remember their previous kills so they stay aggressive for some time (2x scav games).

Change their appearance so other players will recognize they are killers and be more aware they will KOS.

That's all I can think of at the moment. :)

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Isn't this what the Karma system is being used for?

Edited by Matteh
Misspelled a word
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6 hours ago, CTWombat said:

There needs to be something in place to deter scav on scav violence. I propose that killing another scav as a scav (wether its a player or an ai) will result in a longer timer such as 1hr30min or 2hr instead of 1hr. This could also be expanded on by making it so if get attacked by another scav (take damage first) then kill them you dont recieve the penalty (self-defense). Do you guys have any ideas to reduce this needless scav on scav violence.

a karma system is on the way! dont worry

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18 hours ago, Niickles said:

a karma system is on the way! dont worry

I believe this only effects your pmc and their actions. I haven't heard of the scav gameplay being affected by the karma system.

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Scav on Scav violence needs to stop, Spawning in as a Scav with an AK is almost the same as a death sentence. Every player Scav will be watching you (if not already shooting at you) as soon as you spawn in. Not only that, but many players who die as part of a group rejoin as Scavs and continue helping their group like a second life. I believe this is also a problem adding to Scav on Scav Crime.

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Explanation of scavs should be written somewhere when you chose the character. Minutes ago i was playing scav, exploring and looting when i saw some scav player near scav AIs, did not pay huge attention to him but it crossed my mind that i hope he wont kill me.. well he did a while later when i was walking past him... 

Is it true that when you kill other player scav as scav, then the other scav AIs will also start attacking me? or was that my imagination...

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I am sure many of you are aware that even with a Karma system that will not heavily punish players they will always KOS other players regardless of their faction. PMC on PMC, Scav on Scan, it won't matter. I've been playing DayZ SA since like .48 or something and KOS is always a problem unless the other player doesn't have a gun. Then its "I'm friendly! I'm friendly!" I trust no one on that game. Oh hello there, here is a friendly wave while I bash your skull in with a pipe wrench.

You want a penalty? Force vendors not to do business with the players for like 6 real-time hours or more. Disable "Insurance" providers for gear and weapons. Reduced EXP and currency gains. Lock out their Gamma box.

If the desire is to get Bear to be friendly to Bear, USEC to be friendly to USEC, and Scav friendly to Scav... dare I say... remove friendly fire. Or at least create an in-game warning. If you have too many FF kills, extraction prevents you from taking loot that you did not take in.

Risk vs. reward is steeply tilted towards risk at this point during the game. But the game is fantastic. However, the community in-game is going to go sour real fast especially after launch. After a year you might as well turn it into Battlefield.

 

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i just played as a scav and as I spawn another player shoots at me so I shoot back and try to find him and as I turn a corner he is sitting behind a box like a coward if u have the balls to shoot first continue the fight it annoys me cos scav mode wasn't made to shoot each other in my opinion it was made for other players  to work together :( 

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So, ive been killed several times under 10 seconds of me spawning in as a scav and it is really frustrating because i dont even have a chance because i load in, look around, and die by another player scav. It is frustrating because sometimes the scav i spawn in as has good gear like a shotgun, or a AK etc... but i dont even get to look at it for more than 10 sec and there is nothing i can do about it

EDIT: these were the 2 most recent times that i took a screenshot of

Screenshot (53).png

2017-08-06[01-23]_(0).png

Edited by HIGH_buddy
misspelt something

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Am I the only one who wants to shoot scavs as a scav? I like being in the middle of it with everyone trying to take me down. Its how i choose to play the game and enjoy it, if i wanter cooperation I would play with a friend. Dont really see the purpose of fighting together with bots.

The very first thing I do when i spawn as a SCAV is to gtfo out of there so no one can spawn kill me, then I just kill everyone I see, scav or player. Problem solved, ive never been spawn killed.

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On ‎4‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 7:02 AM, admphi said:

I am sure many of you are aware that even with a Karma system that will not heavily punish players they will always KOS other players regardless of their faction. PMC on PMC, Scav on Scan, it won't matter. I've been playing DayZ SA since like .48 or something and KOS is always a problem unless the other player doesn't have a gun. Then its "I'm friendly! I'm friendly!" I trust no one on that game. Oh hello there, here is a friendly wave while I bash your skull in with a pipe wrench.

You want a penalty? Force vendors not to do business with the players for like 6 real-time hours or more. Disable "Insurance" providers for gear and weapons. Reduced EXP and currency gains. Lock out their Gamma box.

If the desire is to get Bear to be friendly to Bear, USEC to be friendly to USEC, and Scav friendly to Scav... dare I say... remove friendly fire. Or at least create an in-game warning. If you have too many FF kills, extraction prevents you from taking loot that you did not take in.

Risk vs. reward is steeply tilted towards risk at this point during the game. But the game is fantastic. However, the community in-game is going to go sour real fast especially after launch. After a year you might as well turn it into Battlefield.

 

This! +1

Im tired of this non-sense BS! I mean this is hardcore, but also it's a game, many guys i know have stopped playing the game bc of this. (wheres the fun?) I know "also" that i want to get the best outta me in the field. But sometimes is nearly impossible.

Edited by m4dk1ngd0m
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yea the scav on scav is getting old really quick and making the game unejoyable. wait an hour to spawn and get spawn killed by another player scav immediately. waste of time. the purpose of scav mode is to be able to get gear alittle easier without fear of other scavs. karma system needs to be brutal to get people to stop or the player base is going to fall because all this toxic crap.

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I HIGHLY suggest you read up on those things that pass by during the map loading screen. There's one about Scav-on-scav violence ;)

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How to identify another scav?  I suppose if it moves like a human and looks like a counter-terrorist it is PMC?  I just worry I kill another scav without knowing or in a panic. 

I'm also curious if AI scavs turn on player scavs killing other player scavs.  Did anyone confirm that?  Someone asked that above but did not get an answer :)

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb HoundDogZA:

How to identify another scav?  I suppose if it moves like a human and looks like a counter-terrorist it is PMC?  I just worry I kill another scav without knowing or in a panic. 

I'm also curious if AI scavs turn on player scavs killing other player scavs.  Did anyone confirm that?  Someone asked that above but did not get an answer :)

Scavs have more casual clothing, mostly blue jeans and a greenish jacket, BEAR has very dark colored clothes and is the easiest to keep apart from scavs. And USEC has a camo pattern on their combat shirt and pants, they can be a bit trickier to recognize but keep in mind that the Scav jacket is much more loose than the skintight combat shirt. So if you see a more "defined" dude, its probably USEC.

 

Am 4.8.2017 um 12:30 schrieb Amphal:

Explanation of scavs should be written somewhere when you chose the character. Minutes ago i was playing scav, exploring and looting when i saw some scav player near scav AIs, did not pay huge attention to him but it crossed my mind that i hope he wont kill me.. well he did a while later when i was walking past him... 

Is it true that when you kill other player scav as scav, then the other scav AIs will also start attacking me? or was that my imagination...

For me its the same. I get rarely killed at spawn by another scav player. Most raids start with the scavs hunting other BEAR and USEC players because the scav loot is mostly trash compared to what other people have on them. But then the raid progresses and all the scav players scatter around the map. Once you loose track of the other scavs, it becomes really hard not to kill or be killed on sight, since nobody can be sure who their're looking at.

But i hope that the karma system will also bring some sort of ingame communitaction between players into the game. Preferably some sort of lorefriendly callout wheel with options for intimitaion, suggestion, direction/orientaion and simple agree/disagree answers or at least VOIP. Implementing a punishment system and forcing players to work together without giving them any way to communicate would be a very stupid move.

Maybe they should also implement an automated callout if you shoot in a friendly direction. Something along the lines of "Watch your fire!" if you hit close to a friendly at about 20-30 meteres and a full blown "WHAT THE F**K ARE YOU DOING?" when you miss a friendly in close quarters at about 5 meteres. This will more or less complement the AIs callouts when they spott a player.

They should also allow us to lower our weapon which will be encouraged by AI and other players (a bit like the freeroaming NPCs in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R games). Lowering your weapon will change your callout wheel options to less aggressive ones and should give the player a chance that the AI will not attack on sight (which is even suggested in the game since the AI is often saying things like "we're just lookin" and "we wont shoot you" and then simply open fire at you).
It's maybe not the most simple thing to implement but it would be much more immersive than just turning of friendly fire.

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11 minutes ago, tullowitsch said:

I'm for 24 hours cooldown for unjustified scav on scav violence.

Sure, but all scav on scav kills are justified. you give me exp, and you have loot i want. So it doesnt seem like that would ever work ... since you know ... it's  justified

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I know it might suck getting spawn killed, but would you feel less crap if you get killed going to the exit and get killed by a player scav? I think it sucks to get killed at start but scav on scav killing is oke. part of survival!

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vor 38 Minuten schrieb ferrie:

I know it might suck getting spawn killed, but would you feel less crap if you get killed going to the exit and get killed by a player scav? I think it sucks to get killed at start but scav on scav killing is oke. part of survival!

Only if all AI- Scav's would fight themselves i would barely agree...

So no, it's not the Part of surviving, it's part of aggressive Outsider Gameplay.

If the Scav's would be all Outsider's, they wouldn't group themselves. 

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1 hour ago, DerHoFFi said:

Only if all AI- Scav's would fight themselves i would barely agree...

So no, it's not the Part of surviving, it's part of aggressive Outsider Gameplay.

If the Scav's would be all Outsider's, they wouldn't group themselves. 

Well IRL their are rotten apples in groups aswell ...  in the police force you have betrayers, in all kind of groups you see this happening.. So imagine in a survival situation.... i mean this is not cod or bf4.. this is way more realistic.

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Well, what is the real purpose to the Scav element of the game.

 

1) It offers a non-player character to attack or to be attacked by.

2) It offers a way to influx the economy with gear.

3) It offers a chance, for a player, to recover low level items they may have otherwise lost.

4) It offers a chance, as a player, to gain footing in a already started map.

If you look at option one, it is pretty obvious what that is for. Basically to act as enemies for the players to attack or to watch out for. They aren't suppose to be too difficult or too easy. Just enough to offer a challenge, in addition to the players running the map/instance.

Two is semantics, I don't know how the economy works so if someone can chime in about that it would be great. But would it be fair to assume, if the gear that is sold to vendors reappears with those same vendors for sale? Basically making the economy of EFT player influenced, affecting the prices of goods. I have noticed that the prices of things do fluctuate in game, but I am unsure if this randomly selected values or related to a more sophisticated supply/demand system.

Three is the most obvious, for newer players. Has anyone gotten into a match as a Scav with a AKS-74U or AK-74N and headed straight for the exit? I know I have. Not sure what more veteran players think, but n00b's or anyone can use the Scav system as a good resource for replenishing what was lost. Or just playing a throw away character that has no money invested into it.

Option four is very similar, I have spawned in as a Scav and found myself among a massacre. Scattered bodies everywhere. Plenty of time and loot for the taking. Other times I get killed very early, sometimes it's because I spawned in at the wrong time and other times it's because the other guy shot first, sometimes it is due to something else (desync, for example). Being a Scav I don't think is intended to be something that is part of the core game. Meaning the emphasis of the game is not the Scav but the player, using the Scav function to improve/enhance the player.

Overall I am sure the balancing is needed, and that's what discussions like this are needed to ensure that Beta testing goes well before actual release. Someone stated above about dynamic spawns, this sounds preferable. At least to reduce the amount of times that spawn camping occurs.

It's hard (not sure what server/admin side tools are in place to measure metrics are, if any) to quantify how the game is being played overall. Meaning that if someone says, "everyone camps the scav spawns and I always die, this is a rampant problem and I won't play the game until it's fixed", is translated into actual data that can be substantiated. Otherwise it's just one person, or a group of people that "feel" the game isn't fair when in reality it is related to skill or another transient issue that hasn't been identified yet.

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I cant wait until the game has their "rep" system in the works.

 

In fact anybody who opens up on another Scav should have a 24 hour ban from running SCAV. I mean I've seen a LOT of scav players shoot other scavs at exit on Shoreline (near the tank) because its easy gear on the way out.

 

Not enough punishment for being a dick. If you want to play that way, play your main character, and loose your gear.

And yeah +1 on more people playing the scavs together. Makes for awesome games.

 

If this doesnt get "fixed", I see many people get turned off of this fast. (and the godlike npc)

 

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8 hours ago, greedy_goose said:

Sure, but all scav on scav kills are justified. you give me exp, and you have loot i want. So it doesnt seem like that would ever work ... since you know ... it's  justified

Justified as in self-defence, when you're being shot at of course you can shoot back and down a scav as a scav. In this case no cooldown penalty. If you down a scav as scav just for those ridiculous few XP and their shitty weapons you should get cooldown penalty 24 hours.

I had runs where we grouped as scavs and downed fully geared PMC, you'll never get that much stuff just from scavs, and also most likely would not manage to get it alone. But hey, scav players, keep shooting each other for few XPs and pistols or broken AKs, at least PMC can just walk through and pick up your leftovers on the way out, lol. 

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4 minutes ago, tullowitsch said:

Justified as in self-defence, when you're being shot at of course you can shoot back and down a scav as a scav. In this case no cooldown penalty. If you down a scav as scav just for those ridiculous few XP and their shitty weapons you should get cooldown penalty 24 hours.

I had runs where we grouped as scavs and downed fully geared PMC, you'll never get that much stuff just from scavs, and also most likely would not manage to get it alone. But hey, scav players, keep shooting each other for few XPs and pistols or broken AKs, at least PMC can just walk through and pick up your leftovers on the way out, lol. 

The exp you get is not ridiculously low. The end battle report is bugged, and you actually get a lot more than it shows. I'd venture to see its very much comparable to the way pmc xp works, seeing how the skills/mastering level the same way.

Also, player scav pistols sells for 5-8 times more than a scav ai makarov or tt. There should be no penalty at all. Killing other scavs is in line with the lore of cutthroats and backstabbers in the lore. Also, it indirectly affects the PMCs as they get no loot or kill xp.

Just for your knowledge:

 

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