Blackb1rd

The interview with Nikita Buyanov

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

That being the case then, hopefully the karma system changes to non-existent. But the stuff they have said and their intents for it are worth discussing and analyzing and criticizing. Again, you don't have to taste test 6 month old milk that looks and smells rotten just to check if it's really as bad as it seems. Based on the answer in the interview, it is among my criticisms of that system. I don't think constantly hoping or asking that I just stop talking about it is going to go anywhere. It's clear at this point I'm going to keep voicing my opinion on what I think could be a really bad system that honestly will do more harm than any proposed good.

Yeah, but your criticism is based on rumors, thats my point the whole time ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, FurryAlot said:

your criticism is based on rumors

If that's the case your praise of the system in any part is based on rumors and is just as baseless then.
But it's not based on just rumors but on shared and common knowledge of what a karma system is, how it works, common means of implementation, ect, from seeing similar things done in the past, as well as reading and listening to developers and supporters of the system and their wants out of it. Pretending like this is the first time anyone has ever heard of a karma system and that no one is familiar at all with the concept is disingenuous.

Again, I don't need to wait until poo has hit the fan and see if it does what I think it'll do before I complain about someone squeezing one out over a fan.
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

If that's the case your praise of the system in any part is based on rumors and is just as baseless then.
But it's not based on just rumors but on shared and common knowledge of what a karma system is, how it works, common means of implementation, ect, from seeing similar things done in the past, as well as reading and listening to developers and supporters of the system and their wants out of it. Pretending like this is the first time anyone has ever heard of a karma system and that no one is familiar at all with the concept is disingenuous.

Again, I don't need to wait until poo has hit the fan and see if it does what I think it'll do before I complain about someone squeezing one out over a fan.
 

Stop putting words in my mounth . i am not praising anything, i just dont quickly jump to  conclusions as you are. 

I repeat myself again and again, you have 0, by word  ZERO, OFFICIAL information on karma...seeing similar things done in the past in other games means absolutely nothing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FurryAlot said:

i just dont quickly jump to  conclusions as you are. 

I didn't jump quickly to a conclusion. I thought about it, considered it, played around with the concept and then said "Hey, this seems like a bad idea."

And again, I don't need to wait for poo to hit a fan to object to someone with their pants down squatting over one on the high speed setting. I don't think "Hey, maybe this time it'll be chocolate ice cream instead of what I think." This whole "just wait until it happens, how do you know it won't be good until you're in the middle of a scatological nightmare" nonsense is just silly. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

I didn't jump quickly to a conclusion. I thought about it, considered it, played around with the concept and then said "Hey, this seems like a bad idea."

And again, I don't need to wait for poo to hit a fan to object to someone with their pants down squatting over one on the high speed setting. I don't think "Hey, maybe this time it'll be chocolate ice cream instead of what I think." This whole "just wait until it happens, how do you know it won't be good until you're in the middle of a scatological nightmare" nonsense is just silly. 

This argument leads to nowhere as we both are just repeating ourselves .

I wish you wouldnt be so upset about karma, have some faith in devs , look at what theyve achieved with just few core mechanics its a solid deathmatch realistic fps more complex than anything we have from AAA titles. I truly believe that they will implement karma in a way that will make the game better.

I wish you luck trying to escape from Tarkov :begood:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I generally think karma would be a good thing for this game.

You need to look at this as a game mechanic not as a realism thing. Our main goal is to, as a PMC, escape Tarkov through a linear set of locations, with some back tracking due to trader quests, wanting to gear up, outfit your hideout.

As it stands currently if scavs are allowed to kill scavs with impunity this removes a whole section of difficulty for PMC's. As we can see currently, for example customs, scavs spawn in, loot for factory key, wallet, M4 or gas station loot, kill each other and bail (this brings up another discussion about scavs getting good loot on customs of which I think is somewhat correct as it entices people to play customs as a scav hindering PMC progression, although I think there should be some kind of extraction delay or further a field scav extraction zones to make them stay around/cross paths with the PMC's ) same goes for factory, player scavs spawn kill other scavs for loot and bail, this mentality leads to a whole section of the difficulty for PMC's being removed from the game.

The other mechanic surrounding the scav mode is that it is a large part of the influx of better items into the game world, whether this be PMC killing a scav for loot or scav on scav. Without this influx of loot you are limited to gaining new weapons or levelling the traders for better weapons by grinding the lower tiered items by buying ammo, food, drink, meds and low level weapons from the traders, bartering tut or doing their quests.

With a very harsh karma system applied to scav on scav violence you, immediately increase the difficulty for the PMCs to reach extraction due to the number of scavs alive in the raid, have a system where as a scav you have the free chance to bring loot into the item economy, as a scav have a choice of bringing better loot (killing another scav) into the economy but with the effect of being hampered from doing this too often (an artificial limited on the influx of items, this is a good thing).

If you do not place this limit it is detrimental to the premise of the PMC game play and the games item economy. The game may as well have no story or background setting as it is just another all out deathmatch with piñata loot as can presently be seen.

Same goes for USEC vs BEAR, you will need to bring in better weapons due to the number of scav still alive, which leads to better loot, you get better emergent game play with PMC's of your own faction (one group clearing on section whilst another do a different one whilst also fearing for PMC's of the opposite faction), the intensity of raids is raised due to the number of scav remaining and the threat of more powerful weapons having been bought in and you still have somewhat of a limit on the influx of items into the economy due to the fact it would be harder for PMC's to extract and PMC's have less room as they need to go in tooled up to begin with. Although they can choose to enter with bigger containers which can be for tut, trade, barter goods,improvements(mods, hideout) or weapons (if a big enough).

Playing as a scav should not be a focus for progressing your PMC, they are there to hinder PMCs progression (which is why the AI should be turned back up) with the added bonus of some loot.

Just my two pence.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Drofic said:

You need to look at this as a game mechanic not as a realism thing.

It should be the inverse for this game, a game striving for 'uncompromising realism' as stated by devs, and thus shouldn't go for something that is a straight compromise on reality. Any adjustment or balancing should only be based on some physical reality. Otherwise we might as well go down and adjust guns so they're 'balanced' instead of 'realistic', such as nerf grenades to where they can't kill even if they land at your feet because it might seem 'unfair' to some, or have snipers that can't kill so that you can have a chance to fight back so that it is 'balanced',and other such things most FPS games go down for 'balance'.
 

8 hours ago, Drofic said:

As it stands currently if scavs are allowed to kill scavs with impunity this removes a whole section of difficulty for PMC's.

I don't think it needs to be with impunity. Right now, if you kill scavs, other scavs who witness it may turn on you and make your life a whole lot harder. On top of that, you lose a convenient distraction and other source of fire if you do try to go after PMCs, so they're more focused on you, it gives away your location, among other considerations. So killing off other scavs of either the player or AI variety presents you with more challenges as is.

Having Scav extractions being different than PMC extractions I think holds  merit, if done properly, but scavs by their nature are backstabbers, they're cutting each other's throats for a bigger piece and any uneasy partnerships they develop are strictly holding off at a chance at an even bigger payday. But trying to kill other scavs has plenty of its own risks since it can cause scavs to turn on you and wipe you out as well as having to worry about PMCs so there's already something in place as is. I've seen people try to kill a scav and lose, AI or player, so even engaging in that fight has risk to it.

 

9 hours ago, Drofic said:

With a very harsh karma system applied to scav on scav violence you, immediately increase the difficulty for the PMCs

Possibly, there's some argument, but even as is, but at the cost of drastically decreasing the difficulty for player scavs. And a karma system isn't necessary for it. Really, you only need VOIP and you'll instantly start seeing more random people playing together and working together to fight up against PMCs or to loot and get out. And VOIP doesn't violate reality the way karma would.
 

9 hours ago, Drofic said:

If you do not place this limit it is detrimental to the premise of the PMC game play

Not really since PMCs are just trying to get out with more than they brought in and extract, or later to solve some quest in the future like "Bring in X guns" or "Bring X item". Having to fight scavs is incidental but not inherent to that.
 

9 hours ago, Drofic said:

Playing as a scav should not be a focus for progressing your PMC

A scav has an entirely separate progression tree. Whatever you gain and level up in scav doesn't transfer over to PMC, only items. And if that's the case, then proposed karma system doubly doesn't make sense since if the PMC and Scavs are seperate, why should they be bound by karma, but not by XP, skills, ect. Makes no sense, on top of which, also goes directly against the scav lore. So it doesn't make sense from a realism perspective, a gameplay perspective or a lore perspective.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

Not really since PMCs are just trying to get out with more than they brought in and extract,

So scav on scav violence is detrimental to this, if there are less scavs hunting the PMCs the easier it is for them to extract, do their quest objectives, pick up remaining weapons etc unhindered.

15 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

Whatever you gain and level up in scav doesn't transfer over to PMC, only items.

"Only items", the items you extract with enables your ability as a PMC to trade, barter, fight and expand your reputation towards better gear. Items are a huge part of this. For the majority of players in the beta I would bet that their first usable primary weapons came from or where able to buy/trade from things they looted from a scav whilst playing as a scav. Starting money dismissed as the devs have already stated that money will have less meaning in the release version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Drofic said:

if there are less scavs hunting the PMCs the easier it is for them to extract

AI scavs also respawn right now based on waves and need to die before others come out. If a player scav kills off some pistol scavs early in Customs, it allows the next wave to spawn in which usually up the ante, instead of pistol scavs you start seeing AK or Saiga scavs with Pacas. Scavs killing scavs can make the map harder by removing the easier scavs like pistol and pump shotgun scavs and replace them with harder scavs like AK and Saiga scavs. Player scav killing AI scavs can easily make the map harder, not easier, if that next wave of AK scavs with body armor comes in. If you stay in long enough some of the final waves will even have helmets and AKs with attachments. As the lower level scavs die, higher level and better equipped ones come out. PMCs who wait and take advantage of that cycle of death could walk out with AKs, Saigas and Pacas instead of a couple of makarovs and a cheap pump shotty like the player Scav might have to settle for, and have to fight against it too. Meaning, a more challenging set of Scavs for the PMC, better weapons and equipment for the PMC to walk out with, and the player scav gets lower end stuff than the PMC does who comes in 5-10 minutes afterward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best way to punish scav killing is what Eroktic Gaming suggested in his video, and it wouldn't impact any type of realism.

If a Scav kills another Scav, the player gets another hour added onto his Scav timer, if he kills two Scavs in a round, add 4 hours to his timer.

No realism hit, just a penalty that affects the player itself and may make less rewarding being a Scav killing Scav.

 

Edit: I am sick of trying to sneak up on PMC's and then get tapped in the head by a player scav.

Edited by Eaz
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Drofic said:

You need to look at this as a game mechanic not as a realism thing

11 hours ago, TechoverMana said:

It should be the inverse for this game, a game striving for 'uncompromising realism' as stated by devs, and thus shouldn't go for something that is a straight compromise on reality.

11 hours ago, TechoverMana said:

but scavs by their nature are backstabbers, they're cutting each other's throats for a bigger piece and any uneasy partnerships they develop are strictly holding off at a chance at an even bigger payday

10 hours ago, TechoverMana said:

AI scavs also respawn right now based on waves and need to die before others come out. If a player scav kills off some pistol scavs early in Customs, it allows the next wave to spawn in which usually up the ante, instead of pistol scavs you start seeing AK or Saiga scavs with Pacas.

If as you point out they are backstabbers and have no loyalty to each other why would they increase in difficulty/gear via waves? They would not care that their fellow scavs before them have been killed and send in tougher scavs (reminds me of the game payday). Maybe waves as another band rolls through the area or are attracted by the noise of fighting, but an increase in gear? If based in reality each group would have the same chance of gear as any other, these are roaming gangs not a paramilitary force with a hierarchical order. Again game mechanic to both reward and hinder PMC's for killing and sticking around.

 

5 hours ago, Eaz said:

If a Scav kills another Scav, the player gets another hour added onto his Scav timer

Yes this is the sort of thing I'm thinking when mentioning karma for scavs.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Drofic said:

Yes this is the sort of thing I'm thinking when mentioning karma for scavs.

And the good thing with a system like that (time penalty)  is that Scavs are supposed to be backstabbers and if I see a scav with lets say a helmet and armor, I am gladly taking that 2 or even 4 hour hit, because it benefits me in the long run. (Provided I even make it out, which is another risk factor you have to consider, not only backstabbing for the sake of the kill, but also risking that penalty and not making it out).
 
So, it is still viable to be a traitor scav, but you have to take the penalty vs the reward.

Killing a random pistol wearing scav for a 2 hour hit - maybe not.
Killing a fully decked out scav for the same 2 hour hit - yeah why not?

Edited by Eaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.