Blackb1rd

Countercheating measures

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb RushnBorsh:

Yes, because when you get banned - you forum profile here is blocked as well. So you wont see them in this forum, but in lots of other forums/sites i see lots of comments like that.

Show me pls a site.

You can make profiles how much you will here or not? 

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4 hours ago, Jack_Oneill said:

Show me pls a site.

You can make profiles how much you will here or not? 

Here's a good example. Most cheaters claim that they were banned for "nothing" ) For some reason i don't believe stuff like that anymore. Also read all comments under that post )

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/66wakq/banned_for_apparently_no_reason/

 

Edited by RushnBorsh
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1 hour ago, DreTaX14 said:

I don't believe that any sort of anti-cheat software was placed in alpha. Honestly I believe none of the above. Complete bullcrap. Sorry.

@DreTaX14 I am a retired Ex Forces Airborne Senior Instructor Engineers 15years service and a further 15 years as an Investigative Police officer firearms trained qualified sniper. I have no reason to post false information here on the forums so make of it what you like. I have been here from the very beginning of testing. It’s not complete bullcrap as you have stated.

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I'm on the "I need to see to believe" wave-train along with most. I've played way too many early access, alphas, and betas of games from particularly newer indie companies to have it any other way. I get it that there's need to oppress a certain amount of negativity in some cases to keep flow going smoothly, but more often then not I've seen it purely done only to cover a companies "6", so to speak.

It's usually ALWAYS the same formula too that plays out; 1. Dev's ignore the problem, 2. Dev's ban users from forums/game, report users for bad reviews to valve (if on steam), 3. Acknowledge the problem, blame it on everything short of an inability to solve the issue currently, OR provide shady response that they are working on the situation without providing factual, tangible proof that shows their methods are truly working. 4. Users with too much naive pride try to reason with those who know better who have been through similar scenarios over and over. 5. Start over from #2. - Issue remains unsolved.

That being said, just going to quickly shoot down any would be white knights and then exercise my rights at not having to respond to them, because it's utterly fruitless patriotism more than it is actual reasoning.

"They're different!" .... sure, so were all the others I've seen come before, and fail too.

"You don't understand development, it takes time" .... Yes, I understand that it takes time, I also understand that despite some issues that some things must just continue to progress otherwise fighting a nonstop battle means no progress would be made at all.. it's just like skipping answers on a test and going back to complete them later. On the other hand, companies tend to be bad at prioritizing what needs to be addressed and dividing their man power to do so.

"It's Early Access / Alpha / Beta" ..... Do you want to even know how many games I've seen fail, some giving up entirely before release? Of course, I'm not unreasonable either... I -expect- there to be persistent issues that are even going to carry over a multitude of patches and a good amount of time. However, it's not showing any viable evidence to the consumers that these issues are being addressed that ultimately dooms the project. 

Here's the thing, right? I've paid my $140 USD. You think I don't want to see this company, and this game succeed in making something great? Oh yes, that is even still after all the EA/Alpha/Beta crap of steam games and just the PC gaming community in general, I still trusted these guys enough to give them $140 USD. I love the idea of the game but it's still too early to say as of yet, I've seen some of their ups and their downs... but at the end of the day, I just hope I made the right choice. 

Please, don't let me down too. Be the ones that break this chain and show that indie dev's can actually be trusted.

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7 hours ago, JAGUAR1950 said:

As quoted by Blackb1rd The anticheat work is a constant process inseparable from the project's lifecycle, even if it looks as if nothing is happening, the anticheat works are still very much in full swing.

I can assure you the anti-cheat system has been in place since ALPHA / ADVANCED ALPHA testing and several waves on BANS have been implemented during those phases.

The hell are you on about? First off, you wrote "Thank you for your comprehensive Counter-cheating measures report I see your independent team are diligently producing an effective countermeasure to the problem we are having in game." I responded to you asking for a reference to what you mean "comprehensive report", because this post is neither a report, nor is it comprehensive. I'm still waiting for this "comprehensive report".

 

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4 hours ago, RushnBorsh said:

Here's a good example. Most cheaters claim that they were banned for "nothing" ) For some reason i don't believe stuff like that anymore. Also read all comments under that post )

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/66wakq/banned_for_apparently_no_reason/

 

Okay, this needs to stop. I've seen people reference these reddit posts here, and on reddit, and on discord. All of these such posts are from the watermark period. That should in and of itself make you at least pause: because during that period you got insta-banned for posting anything about the game outside of the official forums. Many of these thread creators, you will see if you read through the responses, were simply not aware / dilligent with regards to the NDA policies. Some of these users clearly didn't know / fully understand the NDA rules, as evidenced by the statements within the thread itself.

Here's another often-linked example:


Except if you read the post, the guy states that he discussed the issue outside of the official forum

"Yeah I agree that's a valid statement, I just know personally that there is no reason I could of been banned, other than what someone just recently commented about discussing the game outside of the forums."

It's pretty clear that when these reddit users begin their thread with "I didn't do anything wrong", that these do not constitute evidence for an anti-cheat working in the slightest. They constitute players who, in all likelihood (and sometimes by clear admission) posted a pic, video, text, or whatever, outside of the forums. Again, if all of these posts are from the watermark period, your instant conclusion shouldn't be "oh hey, this must be evidence of anti-cheat working".

The same is true for the post you just linked. A user isn't going to just come out and say "yeah I broke the NDA let me back in", and you can tell by his evasive responses that he has the same problem as the link I gave. He simply asserts he did nothing wrong: but asserting this is simply his interpretation of what he did. He, again in all likelihood, spilled the beans about the game somewhere.

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22 hours ago, Blackb1rd said:

. For that work to be effective, the cheating players are first being collected and monitored first, and banned later.

 

EFT_Post_FightCheaters_EN.jpg

So how long from when you first start monitoring  them to when they get banned is it? 

 

Edited by Doc_Savage

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Out of curiosity, why not use a well know service (read Battleye, not the crap Fair Fight).

Most (if not all games) that use Battleye are having little to no problems with cheaters and the few that exist gets banned more or less instantly.

 

Edit: That being said, any work done to battle cheaters is good work. A game like this would be destroyed if cheaters get into it, specially when the game gets economy and so on.

Edited by Eaz

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9 hours ago, Eaz said:

Out of curiosity, why not use a well know service (read Battleye, not the crap Fair Fight).

Most (if not all games) that use Battleye are having little to no problems with cheaters and the few that exist gets banned more or less instantly.

Because Battleye is a third company and you need to pay for their services. EFT is not an AAA game with a large budget, they need to do with what they have.

Maybe they try to cut the bill by hiring russians programmers dedicated to countercheating measures, I don't know.

Anyway company like Battleye have their own technologies and experiences in anti-cheat matter and I think they charge game's devs for that.

The 1 million $ question is: Will their anti-cheat be great or not? Better than Battleye or the others?

Wait and see...

Edited by Klaus_Quarter

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2 hours ago, Klaus_Quarter said:

Because Battleye is a third company and you need to pay for their services.

But proven and good service.

 

I am always getting worried when someone tries to reinvent the wheel because of financial constrict.

 

Don't get me wrong, EFT so far is brilliant, but if the dumb down on anti cheat, the game will suck.

And I am not talking about cheaters being in the game, I am talking about cheaters not being banned within an hour.

If they fail with the instaban, the game will fail. Having people manually investigating reports will kill this game.

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On 25/08/2017 at 10:52 PM, JAGUAR1950 said:

As quoted by Blackb1rd ... even if it looks as if nothing is happening, the anticheat works are still very much in full swing...

Yeah the anticheat is supposed to already work, yet, since "it looks as if nothing is happening" the damage to the game is already done.

We all play and see flying people, people using Kedr and pistols from their containers, people immune to bullets and such. So as we already see more and more threads about it, and posts from devs about it, we ll also see more and more videos on youtube for example about it.

And it will take less time for the game to be known/rumored to be a cheaters fest than to be released.

So the more "it looks as nothing is happening", the more damage is done to the game itself, with people leaving because of cheats and less and less potential buyers for the game.

I know and understand actual system is probably the best they can come with about the cheating matter, yet I also still think it is hurting the game and it 's potential playerbase.

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@SupRDeluxe

I do agree with many comments here members are becoming very concerned with suspicious activity on the servers.

The developers and I still support them, now need to be more proactive than inactive an immediate BAN wave should be in force sooner rather than later to show the HACKERS / CHEATERS we know your using them and we know you’re on the forums.

And as soon as more are found and reported another BAN wave is implemented and continued whilst we are still in the Closed Beta Stage.

The more the developers kick the HACKERS / CHEATS and Burn their access to the forums and the game we can start to clean and tighten the security measures here within the E.F.T. community.

 

59a2087e95b47_Fightcheaters.thumb.JPG.729f56695df4bbb2d799522f29032cb3.JPG

Edited by JAGUAR1950
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7 hours ago, SupRDeluxe said:

We all play and see flying people

Most probably cheaters, however sometimes if you stuck in a textures - you might start flying

 

7 hours ago, SupRDeluxe said:

people using Kedr and pistols from their containers

In-game bug and people using in-game bug that dev's were supposed to fix long time ago. Dev's all aware about gun glitching bugs but not fixing them right away with hotfixes for some reason. According to devs they will not ban bug users before game is released

 

7 hours ago, SupRDeluxe said:

people immune to bullets and such.

While it could be a part of some cheat  - i've seen and experienced a lot desync's when people were "immune" to bullets, but in fact it was a desync.

 

In any case cheaters should be banned ASAP, because the more dev's wait - the more people would think that cheaters can feast in Tarkov without any consequences. 

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20 hours ago, Doc_Savage said:

So how long from when you first start monitoring  them to when they get banned is it? 

I've been seeing on the forums that people say it's a week, but since bans are usually in waves I honestly do not have a clue.

Maybe a week before/after an update?

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4 hours ago, UlyssesVengeanc said:

I've been seeing on the forums that people say it's a week, but since bans are usually in waves I honestly do not have a clue.

Maybe a week before/after an update?

Now it is only beta, but ban-waves does not work, it has to be ongoing.

If a cheater is allowed to pester the game for a week that will destroy the game as such.

It can't got a week from suspicion to acting. It has to go 'Cheat detected = Ban' with no delay.

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1 hour ago, Eaz said:

Now it is only beta, but ban-waves does not work, it has to be ongoing.

If a cheater is allowed to pester the game for a week that will destroy the game as such.

It can't got a week from suspicion to acting. It has to go 'Cheat detected = Ban' with no delay.

I agree, that's one whole week of some body cheating, and that amounts to a lot of gear some people are going to lose

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The reason I have read for having a week delay is so the people that have been banned do not report to the cheat engine devs what got them caught, to prevent those devs from finding work-arounds due to these "trigger actions".

 

As the EFT devs say the cheat detection system is in it's "learning" phase it monitors the suspicious persons to see what they do and how they do it, then reports back to the people who look at this information to decide if it is ban worthy or not.

If it is, boom, ban, information is stored to be used against future hackers and the cheat engine devs don't know what got them caught.

If it is not, information is stored anyway so when the system does become automated it does not accidentally ban legitimate players.

 

Atleast, that is how I believe it works. I could be entirely off, but from the info I have collected this is how I infer it works.

Besides, there will be a wipe anyway and we are testers, not players. So what if I lose some gear? I'd rather stick with this and have the anti-cheat work wonders down the road for the full-release than have an anti-cheat that doesn't work or, worse, bans the real players and allows the script kiddies to roam free.

 

Just my two cents, cheers

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