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Hi,

The current state of Suppressors make them a necessity when taking gear into a raid, and understandably they are end-game gear.

However,  being on the receiving end of a suppressed weapon is no fun as it is impossible to determine where the shots are coming from.

The range at which suppressed shots can be heard is often less than engagement distance therefore there is often no chance of fighting back.

Subsonic bullet use should be promoted when using suppressors however, they should have little effect when used with supersonic bullets, only deadening the sound.

Are there any plans to change suppressors from the current 'Hollywood' style into something more realistic?

Love the game by the way, it has huge potential.

 

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Hmm; well, all things considered, the silenced AK-74 in real life is pretty silent--and IMO would still be hard to trace its location in a place like the Woods map, for example:

 

Edited by PhineasWhipsnde
Clarification

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On 8/30/2017 at 2:41 PM, PhineasWhipsnde said:

Hmm; well, all things considered, the silenced AK-74 in real life is pretty silent--and IMO would still be hard to trace its location in a place like the Woods map, for example:

 

Well see the thing with this is that guy is more than likely using subsonic rounds. OP is talking about how quiet suppressors are with using regular load ammo, and how they should have to use a weaker, subsonic round to make up for the strength of having one on, which i agree with completely. If youre gonna use a strong suppressor you should have to make up for it weaker rounds like you do irl

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:23 PM, samwise420 said:

Hi,

The current state of Suppressors make them a necessity when taking gear into a raid, and understandably they are end-game gear.

However,  being on the receiving end of a suppressed weapon is no fun as it is impossible to determine where the shots are coming from.

The range at which suppressed shots can be heard is often less than engagement distance therefore there is often no chance of fighting back.

Subsonic bullet use should be promoted when using suppressors however, they should have little effect when used with supersonic bullets, only deadening the sound.

Are there any plans to change suppressors from the current 'Hollywood' style into something more realistic?

Love the game by the way, it has huge potential.

 

Even if the sound suppression was realistic, it's very hard to offset the huge advantage of having no muzzle flash or muzzle smoke. It's just a balance problem all around.

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On 9/2/2017 at 7:42 AM, Sushi said:

Even if the sound suppression was realistic, it's very hard to offset the huge advantage of having no muzzle flash or muzzle smoke. It's just a balance problem all around.

I don't need balance unless it's unrealistic. Using supersonic ammo will cause the sound barrier to break create a loud crack if you miss. This will give some indication to where your opponent is which is why subsonic ammo should be implemented properly. Also I rarely use muzzle flash or smoke to find a target.

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On 9/3/2017 at 5:44 AM, J. Dahlgren said:

I don't need balance unless it's unrealistic. Using supersonic ammo will cause the sound barrier to break create a loud crack if you miss. This will give some indication to where your opponent is which is why subsonic ammo should be implemented properly. Also I rarely use muzzle flash or smoke to find a target.

I don't think most players would bother with subsonic ammo since it generally needs a modified weapon to cycle reliably. They'd also probably load the hottest ammo that the weapon could fire for the lowest TTK. Which would be a lot like Contract Wars where silencers were just another mandatory upgrade. Boring implementation in my experience.

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35 minutes ago, Sushi said:

I don't think most players would bother with subsonic ammo since it generally needs a modified weapon to cycle reliably. They'd also probably load the hottest ammo that the weapon could fire for the lowest TTK. Which would be a lot like Contract Wars where silencers were just another mandatory upgrade. Boring implementation in my experience.

Never heard of "TTK" nor have I heard you need specific weapons to feed subsonic ammo as many weapons have threaded barrels to attach a suppressor. Not to mention most people run suppressors already and isn't really an upgrade thing. It's a realism thing to discard the sound but shoot a lower powered round. Comparing this game to something like contract wars also doesn't seem like too logical or a close comparison form what I know about the game.

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30 minutes ago, J. Dahlgren said:

Never heard of "TTK" nor have I heard you need specific weapons to feed subsonic ammo as many weapons have threaded barrels to attach a suppressor. Not to mention most people run suppressors already and isn't really an upgrade thing. It's a realism thing to discard the sound but shoot a lower powered round. Comparing this game to something like contract wars also doesn't seem like too logical or a close comparison form what I know about the game.

TTK = Time to Kill. Supersonic ammo would do more damage so generally people would go for that if the silencers worked in a realistic manner, not to mention a flatter trajectory.

If you have an M16 firing a 5.56 cartridge at 3,000 FPS and need it below a thousand, you're talking about a significant decrease in power and propellant loading. Firearms are designed to cycle with full power service cartridges, and using subsonic ammo can require weaker recoil springs, widened gas ports, depending on the firearm.

Just citing Contract Wars (game a lot of the team worked on) as an example of suppressors done badly, and something for EFT to avoid.

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I'm aware of of power decrease from subsonic ammo but I'm unaware of most weapons needing such changes and even if they did just add it as a modding section. I know quite a few shotguns like the M1014 run semi or pump for different loads but unaware of Rifles doing the samething, normally anyway. I could be wrong of course but haven't heard of it thus far. Also confused on what you mean if suppressors worked realistically, why would people want supersonic ammo? I would want subsonic so there wouldn't be so much noise and actually utilize the suppressor to its full function.

26 minutes ago, Sushi said:

TTK = Time to Kill. Supersonic ammo would do more damage so generally people would go for that if the silencers worked in a realistic manner, not to mention a flatter trajectory.

If you have an M16 firing a 5.56 cartridge at 3,000 FPS and need it below a thousand, you're talking about a significant decrease in power and propellant loading. Firearms are designed to cycle with full power service cartridges, and using subsonic ammo can require weaker recoil springs, widened gas ports, depending on the firearm.

Just citing Contract Wars (game a lot of the team worked on) as an example of suppressors done badly, and something for EFT to avoid.

 

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On 9/5/2017 at 7:35 PM, J. Dahlgren said:

I'm aware of of power decrease from subsonic ammo but I'm unaware of most weapons needing such changes and even if they did just add it as a modding section. I know quite a few shotguns like the M1014 run semi or pump for different loads but unaware of Rifles doing the samething, normally anyway. I could be wrong of course but haven't heard of it thus far. Also confused on what you mean if suppressors worked realistically, why would people want supersonic ammo? I would want subsonic so there wouldn't be so much noise and actually utilize the suppressor to its full function.

 

No, that would be the Benelli M3, the 'convertible.' It can use recoil-operated semi-automatic or pump action. The M1014 / M4 is strictly semi-automatic and has a self-adjusting gas system to cycle different kinds of ammo.

Unless the rifle has an adjustable gas regulator (like an FAL), and even sometimes with, they won't cycle with subsonic cartridges much of the time. There's too much of a disparity in what the weapon is designed to cycle. Pistols can because they only borderline supersonic in most cases.

Plus, it would be very ineffective at penetrating armor. The AS VAL is just about the only weapon designed to penetrate armor with subsonic ammunition. So I feel players would just run suppressors with full power ammo to reduce most of the sound and keep all of their power.

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On 9/6/2017 at 4:10 AM, Sushi said:

If you have an M16 firing a 5.56 cartridge at 3,000 FPS and need it below a thousand, you're talking about a significant decrease in power and propellant loading.

This can be (and most often is) achieved without significant decrease in power and propellant loading. You can acheive it by using heavier bullet (for pistols which have normally 400ms, only 30% increase is enough, for rifles it can be ~2-3x heavier).

Thanks to the bigger mass that need to be propelled, speed will be reduced, but kinetic energy remains roughly the same (on the downside of longer time to reach target). Using heavier bullet also solves problem of reliability of cycling automatic weapons, because if you use propellant with same energy, both bullet energy and recoil/cycle force remain the same.

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On 9/6/2017 at 2:52 AM, Sushi said:

I don't think most players would bother with subsonic ammo since it generally needs a modified weapon to cycle reliably. They'd also probably load the hottest ammo that the weapon could fire for the lowest TTK. Which would be a lot like Contract Wars where silencers were just another mandatory upgrade. Boring implementation in my experience.

Lots of weapons use subsonic ammo, for one AS VAL/VSS which use subsonic ammo but with Tungsten/Volfram core which acts as armor piercing.

So in no way subsonic armor must be low impact/damage when speed of the projectile is taken in to consideration.

Similar case is with MP5 SD and some other assault rifles/submachine guns.

Edited by Gonzmeister
grammar

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On 9/8/2017 at 1:29 AM, PotatoWarriah said:

This can be (and most often is) achieved without significant decrease in power and propellant loading. You can acheive it by using heavier bullet (for pistols which have normally 400ms, only 30% increase is enough, for rifles it can be ~2-3x heavier).

Thanks to the bigger mass that need to be propelled, speed will be reduced, but kinetic energy remains roughly the same (on the downside of longer time to reach target). Using heavier bullet also solves problem of reliability of cycling automatic weapons, because if you use propellant with same energy, both bullet energy and recoil/cycle force remain the same.

Yeah that's true, you can load a 220 grn into a 7.62x51mm for example, but for intermediate calibers like 5.56 you can't really go much heavier than the 77 grn range practically. So the common weapons at least would suffer from those related issues.

 

45 minutes ago, Gonzmeister said:

Lots of weapons use subsonic ammo, for one AS VAL/VSS which use subsonic ammo but with Tungsten/Volfram core which acts as armor piercing.

So in no way subsonic armor must be low impact/damage when speed of the projectile is taken in to consideration.

Similar case is with MP5 SD and some other assault rifles/submachine guns.

 

I mentioned that:

 

On 9/7/2017 at 11:43 PM, Sushi said:

The AS VAL is just about the only weapon designed to penetrate armor with subsonic ammunition. So I feel players would just run suppressors with full power ammo to reduce most of the sound and keep all of their power.

 

It has special ammo to allow for that. Keep in mind 9x39 cartridges are more than three times heavier than a standard 5.56 cartridge and isn't as reliant on velocity to get the job done. A standard rifle cartridge that is normally supersonic, reduced to supersonic levels would not penetrate armor as well.

And the MP5SD actually uses baffle "wipes" to slow the bullet down slightly, which does result in reduced power.

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Yes plz i am not a fan of suppressors being stupid quiet and still able to have the power of supersonic loads.

add subsonic loads and the required tools and modifications to make a gun cycle with them and remove supersonic cracks from these loads.

if the gun does not have the correct modifications it should have reliability issues (these would normally be shortstokes, stovepipes {i think}, failure to go into battery, failure to fully chamber a round.)

i want suppressors to dirty guns faster

i want replaceable wipes to be a thing

this game is supposed to be realistic, and realisticly you do not automatically gain an advantage on your opponent just by putting a suppressor on your gun. you kinda need more than that to get the full effectiveness. most if not all guns with suppressors are still not hearing safe for the shooter until you load subsonic ammo. that means if a guy on factory with a suppressed m4 is shooting at you and you cant find him based off of sound alone, the suppressors probably need work done to them.

 

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