Colonel Twerkins

The Cheater Battle Wages On!

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I'd like to more specifically see what the bans were for, ie unlimited health? spawning items? no reload/unlim ammo? speed hack? wallhack? flying? etc. I've seen some super sketchy stuff that couldn't be explained by desync.

ie a full auto SKS, firing faster than it is possible, even with an auto-hotkey script... as well as users running faster than they should with full gear (verified by me sprinting after them with nothing but a hatchet, and them still running faster) this was early beta release, before people could have had a chance to level up any stats that would have effected it.

also, what's preventing someone for purchasing it again? do you ban via hardware id? IP? what's stopping cheaters with disposable income from just making a different account, other than the price tag?

or how about people who modify textures? I've heard rumblings of people replacing various textures to make players bright colors thus giving them an advantage; either by finding lootable bodies they otherwise wouldn't have, or finding players hiding in a bush that would normally have noticed.

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right choice is perma IP ban for second hack. First hack - account ban , second hack - perma IP ban and bye bye honey :)

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I've just seen another fly hacker 5 mins. ago. Seems like he didnt get caught in the banwave or just bought a new key. He speedhacked right pass me and started shooting scavs. I took shots at him and couldnt kill him. I put 30 SKS rounds in him and threw an F1 right next within 3 meters of him. Then I saw him just dissapear right in front of me.

And no, that was no desync. He rekt my legs and arms.

And they should get an hardware ID ban right away. No second chance for this scum. Playing FPS for the last 20 Years its becoming so damn annoying in the last 3-4 years with these cheaterkids. Really teach them a lesson and do all that is possible to punish this idiocracy

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We've  just seen another hacker with  friend. He w as  constantly shooting  us   when we  were  running  through half of shoreline  behind  rocks and  hills.

Edited by zbyszko87

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My main concern, in a bit more text than I originally planned - (Yeah its a Wall, but I really hope you can stomach trough it.)

 

First, it would be great to get any kind of information along with this number of 400. I of course understand the decision to not publish any names and I agree with it, but it would be nice to actually give something back to the players. To show that this process is not just something happening behind closed doors that we will have to put faith in, but actually is a way to work together and eliminate cheating of any sort from EFT.

There have been numerous topics where people have pointed out the fault in these "ban waves" and have in majority expressed their concern for the well being of the game due to such "after the fact" solutions. It is up to the Devs to chose which and how their systems will work, but as just one of many people here who decided to invest their money into a project still in development (aka Beta, Early access), I believe that we as a whole (experienced FPS players, Tarkov escapees and alike) can offer valuable info to the designers and devs of EFT, especially on these issues we've encountered in numerous other games.

 

Why is this important? Because one of the main reasons I decided to play EFT, is because its brutal and hardcore. Literally hours of farming, can be gone in a matter of seconds if you decide to turn your head from the screen and lose focus. It provides a high sense of accomplishment for getting through the raid and a heart pumping experience during one. This is why, when these Cheaters are supposedly (supposedly - because there is no real way to know for sure if a person who cheated and killed has or will be reprimanded) banned, you are left with just a hollow feeling of that Silenced M4 and NVG you used to have. There is nothing that even acknowledges the loss of time spent in the game, as even on the forums you are simply told that "its worked on" and as myself did with my first report post (my bad, did not understand this was a rule) get warned for trying to report one.

There -needs- to be a system, which provides at least some sort of satisfaction or in-game compensation for the players who have been wronged by cheaters, or less than a handful of events like these will leave somebody with no desire to go out and scavenge yet again for GM counters, chains and other rare items. This can really span from things such as profile accolades if you happen to have died to a cheater that got banned (a purple heart equivalent?), or in-game rubles compensation so at least there is a level of caring shown from the game for allowing for it to happen in the first place. 

Because lets remember, even tho cheaters are a plague in 90% of the modern games, they are in no way a thing to be "expected" or something players should simply "deal with". This is my personal opinion as a Game Designer, but I believe it stands on its own as sort of an objective truth.

If this came out harsh at any point, please forgive me. I absolutely love this game, I see the future of survival FPS in it, and its something we have waited on for a looong time. I know this is still beta, but beta is one of the last stages of development and if there is no conversation between the players and devs on these issues, I`m afraid for the game's future. I want it to be great.

 

I am sorry my post turned out to be this huge, please understand it is only based in concern for a game I really like.

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2 hours ago, Handball said:

right choice is perma IP ban for second hack. First hack - account ban , second hack - perma IP ban and bye bye honey :)

I'd agree with you, but my buddy was caught in the ban, for software he had for another game. They wouldn't reverse ban because they "couldn't prove that he wasn't going to use it for Tarkov."

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On 9/8/2017 at 7:39 AM, Aegan said:

You can say that...they escaped from Tarkov

They haven't escaped. They have been purged.

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now imagine this guys! 400 cheaters x (lets say they all only bought the standard edition) $47.89US (including tax) = $19156. thats an insane amount of money that cheaters have wasted to have the privilege of ruining people fun (at least the money went to an awesome game!). what is the point? i can see where if its a cheap $10 game like csgo that people can make their money back on by boosting people but you really cant do that in this game. 

4 hours ago, Droopysilentdj said:

I'd agree with you, but my buddy was caught in the ban, for software he had for another game. They wouldn't reverse ban because they "couldn't prove that he wasn't going to use it for Tarkov."

if you cheat in 1 you should be banned in all. "once a cheater, always a cheater"

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7 hours ago, zero2005 said:

I'd like to more specifically see what the bans were for, ie unlimited health? spawning items? no reload/unlim ammo? speed hack? wallhack? flying? etc. I've seen some super sketchy stuff that couldn't be explained by desync.

ie a full auto SKS, firing faster than it is possible, even with an auto-hotkey script... as well as users running faster than they should with full gear (verified by me sprinting after them with nothing but a hatchet, and them still running faster) this was early beta release, before people could have had a chance to level up any stats that would have effected it.

also, what's preventing someone for purchasing it again? do you ban via hardware id? IP? what's stopping cheaters with disposable income from just making a different account, other than the price tag?

or how about people who modify textures? I've heard rumblings of people replacing various textures to make players bright colors thus giving them an advantage; either by finding lootable bodies they otherwise wouldn't have, or finding players hiding in a bush that would normally have noticed.

the biggest problem with ip banning is a VPN. $8 dollars a month and you can be banned all day but it wont matter because its not your real IP getting banned than if someone who does wants to play with that ip gets on and for some reason has a ban. it doesn't look good (no i understand those are rare circumstances but developers wont take that chance) cheaters are weak and normally suck at the game thats why they cheat so if they want to they will find a way to cheat or get back to cheating. you cant hardware ban either because then they will lets say go to the store buy a graphics card, cheat, get banned, then return and get another one (there are stories of people actually doing this) or sell it online and then the poor person who bought it will be banned from the game they were maybe hoping to play. most hackers just tend to use auto aim as its easir and less of a red flag than firing an entire clip in 1/4 a second or flying in the sky.

Edited by derickfoggs

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7 hours ago, x4n said:

I've just seen another fly hacker 5 mins. ago. Seems like he didnt get caught in the banwave or just bought a new key. He speedhacked right pass me and started shooting scavs. I took shots at him and couldnt kill him. I put 30 SKS rounds in him and threw an F1 right next within 3 meters of him. Then I saw him just dissapear right in front of me.

And no, that was no desync. He rekt my legs and arms.

And they should get an hardware ID ban right away. No second chance for this scum. Playing FPS for the last 20 Years its becoming so damn annoying in the last 3-4 years with these cheaterkids. Really teach them a lesson and do all that is possible to punish this idiocracy

the problem is that if hackers want to hack they are gonna hack. if they are willing to spend at a minimum of $47.89 to cheat and get banned. while yes i have run into my fair share of hackers there is honestly not much a developer can do in that aspect as IP and hardware banning doesnt work as i explained above. trust me i wish there was a way to really stick it to hackers, but sadly there is to much in the way to get real justice. although i think it would be nice to see like what rainbow six siege does is everytime someone is banned it shows up in the corner (ex: username was banned for cheating) just to show us this is working.

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1 hour ago, derickfoggs said:

if you cheat in 1 you should be banned in all. "once a cheater, always a cheater"

That's like saying:

"Once a drug addict, always a drug addict."
"Once an alcoholic, always and alcoholic."

It's not a very good argument for the given situation. Especially if it catches people who use cheats on single player games. (Now I know what you're thinking "why would anyone ever want to cheat in a single player game?" Well, there used to be a time where games had actual cheat codes built into the game (GTA is a prime example), now a days that's not always the case.)

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9 hours ago, Droopysilentdj said:

I'd agree with you, but my buddy was caught in the ban, for software he had for another game. They wouldn't reverse ban because they "couldn't prove that he wasn't going to use it for Tarkov."

Hard to feel sorry for him, if he has the software he probably had the intention to cheat somewhere so why not Tarkow.

We did the same thing back in CS 1.6 days, built our own server script (before PunkBuster, VAC etc) that scanned for all known cheats and banned users having them on their computer. We banned a lot of people each week, many of them came to our chat and had all kind of excuses why they had it.
The server was practically cheater free so it was always full with players and no one accused other people since they now and then saw players (within 30 secs of entering) being banned and the reason.

On the suggestion on perm IP ban that's not really a good idea, most people don't have fixed IP so that wouldn't do much good.

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I really like the idea of there being an indicator in the top right corner of your screen each time a HACKER / CHEATER is caught and BANNED from E.F.T. via the Anti-Cheat system. No reason necessary just a short line of text.

 

XXXXXX Has been Banned for HACKING / CHEATING.

 

 

That would really get the HACKERS / CHEATERS bums tweaking

No idea or reason why, how will they explain that to their HACK / CHEAT suppliers.

 

 

 

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The talk about "If he has bad software on his computer for something else, he will probably use use it on Tarkov at some point so it's fine to ban him for just having it even if he never used it on Tarkov" and "Once a cheater, always a cheater" is sickening and stupid. 

I know people who use software that might be flagged as "cheat software" just to make certain older games run at the correct resolution for his new monitor and things like that. They have no interest in cheating or hacking, but just for having tools like that on his computer he can be banned on this game?

I don't think anyone should suffer a ban unless they actually cheat - it's that simple - unless they actually use some software like that on this game. Banning people for just having a certain program just installed on their computer is ridiculous and completely wrong. The moment they try to cheat in Tarkov they should be banned, but not before. Any ban before that is banning someone who has literally never cheated in this game, how is that fair?

Edited by Straafe

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6 hours ago, Straafe said:

I don't think anyone should suffer a ban unless they actually cheat - it's that simple - unless they actually use some software like that on this game. Banning people for just having a certain program just installed on their computer is ridiculous and completely wrong. The moment they try to cheat in Tarkov they should be banned, but not before. Any ban before that is banning someone who has literally never cheated in this game, how is that fair?

I wouldn't think it was fair, which is why I said something. If it's not just an isolated case and players who never cheated in Tarkov are being banned, then it needs to be addressed and fixed.

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Someone on Shoreline just flew down and threw an AK and a PAKA on the ground for me and then flew off.

You're losing this battle against cheaters.  Badly.

On top of the Desynchronization... it's especially aggravating.

Is there a possibility of some sort of invasive software that would put an end once and for all?  I really don't mind it.  At all.  I have nothing personal stored on my gaming rig.

The game is completely ruined by it.  It's very difficult to enjoy, considering the punishment for death is losing items you've being grinding 2-3 hours for.

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On 9/13/2017 at 3:30 AM, Droopysilentdj said:

I'd agree with you, but my buddy was caught in the ban, for software he had for another game. They wouldn't reverse ban because they "couldn't prove that he wasn't going to use it for Tarkov."

So sorry for that

Oh wait, he had software for hacking in games lol, Thank god he was banned and it is a shame that you support him

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1 hour ago, Agnisekhar said:

Oh wait, he had software for hacking in games lol, Thank god he was banned and it is a shame that you support him

I wasn't he person you're quoting, but it's really sad you feel that way, especially as an Emissar. It's disgusting. If you read my post above you can see that sometimes people who have no interest in cheating have software that may be flagged as "bad software" to simply make older games work on newer hardware and other things like that, nothing to do whatsoever with Tarkov or cheating. The fact is, it is not right to ban people who haven't cheated, even if potentially unwanted software is detected. The fact that you disagree shows a lot about you. Put them on a list or whatever you want to do, but he isn't a cheater until he's actually cheated, in my opinion. Detecting what software they have on their computer is also a privacy issue, regardless of what nonsense is put into the privacy policy or agreement, a good anti cheating system can detect cheaters without making desperate moves as scanning someone's computer for installed software. Making moves like that shows weakness and poor direction. I am a developer for a living, so this is why I have these opinions. 

I am 100% for eliminating cheaters permanently, but if you're losing the battle against cheaters bad enough that you start banning players who are both supporting a closed beta development and literally haven't cheated a single time, you are in the wrong and need to rethink your approach (in my opinion).

I don't even know for a fact that any players have been banned unfairly, it may have never happened and the anti cheat methods are pure and just, but I do know if they are banned they are locked out of the forums and have no means to become unbanned, so if it happens the rest of us may never know, and I don't like that, especially since all of us are supporting the developers and it's closed beta. 

If even a single person is banned unfairly, then BSG has committed theft to someone who is supporting them, and that's just plain wrong.

Edited by Straafe

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This game is broken and unplayable. I will come back in 2020 when they fox d-Sync in a basic deathmatch game with loot.

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18 минут назад, Straafe сказал:

people who have no interest in cheating have software that may be flagged as "bad software" 

So, there is an anti-cheat. It detects certain software (we will name it isuckatgamesandneedhelp.exe). There is some guy that have isuckatgamesandneedhelp.exe installed (!), runned (!) and run the game. You know, just in case. In case of flying cheater then he could fly higher above? Doesnt it sounds ridiculous? There is no universal cheat for multiple games, its not a goddamn ArtMoney.

If you have certain software and running it in a background (or even installed) just in case, you should be banned just in case. Any legitmate player would never suffer from such kind of rules/system. 

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1 hour ago, skyf1re said:

runned (!)

If the cheat software is running while they are playing Tarkov, that's fair game to ban, but some people in this thread earlier were talking about simply having it installed on their system (and NOT running), which brings it into a grey area where it may not be a justifiable ban. 

In fact, you came back to that same point in the end of your post, there is a huge difference there. There is absolutely zero justification for a "just in case ban," and that is a laughable thought. You may need to think a bit harder about that one.

 

1 hour ago, skyf1re said:

Any legitmate player would never suffer from such kind of rules/system

This is not true and I laid out a very simple and relatively common example above twice already. Even if there is software that is literally only used for cheating in newer games (Let's call it "cheatinnew3DFPSgamesonly.exe"), if it has never been used for Tarkov and is never running when Tarkov is running even if they are cheating on a different game with it at other times, they are still innocent and there is no justification to ban them from Tarkov until they commit the act of cheating. Crossing that line sets a poor precedent and reflects badly on the developers - though again, I am not sure it has been taken that far, but people on this thread including Emissars have been touting that exact idea. I would imagine the current anti cheat system requires the bad software to actually be running right now, and I hope it stays that way.

Your logic, if applied to the real world, would be to charge everyone who simply owns a knife to be convicted with assault with a deadly weapon and thrown in jail, even if they have never used it for such a purpose. Everyone who owns a car should be convicted of vehicular manslaughter simply because they have the means to do it. Everyone with a lighter should be convicted of arson. You get the idea.

It's preposterous. 

Edited by Straafe

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I assume that they don't ban people based on only what's installed.

We did that back in early 2000 when there were no anti-cheat system in place for games and it was a big problem.
This was a way to solve an issue from the server side.

Since the developers add anti-cheat to their software they have a lot more options on how to detect cheating.
Also what I know they haven't said how they detected them and this whole discussion is based on one posters friend claiming he got banned without using it.

Considering how advanced the game is I don't think they would build a AC based on simple scan-n-ban.

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