Creaturve

Should groups be matched with solo players ?

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As a new player i'm getting frustrated by how extremely difficult it is for me to actually get some progress. 

I've got no issues getting loot and killing Scavs, but when it comes to other players i'm having a hard time. Most players i match with are lvl 15+, i'm sitting here lvl 3 with a broken akm and no armor matching against guys with high end gear. I've often gotten major advantages against players, shooting them countless times in the back only for them to turn around on 1 shot me in the face with their fancy scopes and ar rifles, ignoring all my damage because armor.. 

Now for the first time i manage to kill a player with armor + helmet, but i notice 2 other guys not far ahead rushing me for killing their friend. Which made me question the matchmaking of this game, should groups not only match with other groups for balance purposes ? It's frustrating for newer players to not only get matched against veterans but also groups of 2-3 guys. Which will most likely mean newer players will give up on this game sooner or later because they have no actual chance of getting any progress.

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The problem is you have a queue for a game that is, for instance, 6 players.

So a 5 man squad starts up in a group; that's five slots taken out of 6. You start yours up at the same time. There is 1 slot left for that game, so ideally you are a perfect candidate to get the raid started. Game drops you in, 6 player minimum achieved, and you're in a raid by yourself with a 5 man squad.

Its understandably frustrating, but otherwise there would be some more frustrating matching/wait times. So everyone would have to wait longer before they could even play a raid at all. If they made it to where solo players can't be matched with groups, then both parties would suffer.

Unfortunately for the solo player, the only way to combat this is to play in a group. That way, you have your group of 3 matched with another group of 3 for the minimum 6 players on X raid. Both sides are even.

Otherwise, you'd just have to be careful and scout out the area after spawn. If you see a group of players, just hide until 10-15 minutes have passed so they might move on ahead of you. Then you will at least have a better chance to keep the gear you brought in.

I know that "join a squad" is advice too often thrown around on here, and even I myself don't always enjoy playing with people I don't know, but it's really going to be one of the only ways to remedy your situation. Join the unofficial discord, throw around some messages in the "looking for group channel". Or go check out the clans forum and join a small clan. Bigger clans mean more active players, but also mean that you'll likely always be playing with strangers.

Edited by kurgyn

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This game is designed to be played in groups. If you play solo, it's your hard luck.

Also, any form of matchmaking would kill the game and the tension experienced by not knowing what you are up against. I made a post on a similar thread here.

This game is hardcore and as such, you can be thrown in against the odds. You have to adapt.

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Just because you are getting matched with players of higher levels does not mean they have an upper hand. I have killed level 30+ hatchet runners and level 1-10 FORT+KIVER guys this patch. Level does not equal better geared. Doesn't even mean better skills as those are leveled separately from your player level.

The only advantage they have is access to better traders. As far as how good you can do ingame that is all individual skill and not level based.

Solo vs Grouped matching does not belong in this game. As the DEVs have said, if it cannot be done in real life it has no place in EFT. 

EFT has a big emphasis on 'Choice' You can play however you want but there are pros and cons with every choice. As a player, it is up to you to consider them before choosing.

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I posted this as a possible idea in a similar thread:

I'm not so keen on the idea. It removes the adrenaline high you get from wiping 3-4 man squads as a solo player using sneeki breeki tactics and so on. 

Maybe a compromise could be reached though? Something like up to lvl 5 when solo or in a 2 man squad you you can only be put in matches with solos and 2 man squads. The game could give you an option of ticking a box for regular or newbie matching up to lvl 5 (with newbie matching giving less xp to give a little bit longer for game learning). Obviously this would not apply if you went in as a 3+ PMC squad, you are over lvl 5 or playing a Scav.

This could count as part of a tutorial possibly?

 

 

Edited by vatt84
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1 hour ago, Deadmode said:

Also, any form of matchmaking would kill the game and the tension experienced

  1. The game already has a matchmaking and you have no idea how it is working behind the scenes.
  2. It wouldn't kill anything. Playing solo has more than enough tension. What lacks tension is group play as it turns the game into a casual run and gun, since solo players are pretty much no contest. And not only that, but with the insurance system playing in a group also lacks a huge chunk of risk, as it is very unlikely to die all together and get all the loot stolen.
1 hour ago, Deadmode said:

This game is hardcore and as such, [...]

Playing with 5 people in a group on a 9 player map with just 4 enemies, of which half usually have a hatchet, and essentially no risk of ever losing your gear.

Sohardcore.jpg

A 5v5 CSGO round is far more hardcore than this. The only thing that can be considered hardcore in EfT is playing alone and it would stay that way even if you take out teams from those matches. For teams on the other hand it would make the game far more competitive and "hardcore", if they would also play against teams and might lose their stuff aswell, so your argument is more than just invalid.

You are just one of those who wants to brag about playing a "hardcore" game while playing the most casual and easy matches ever. I don't see any other reason to defend straight unfairness in a game. Unfair games are bad games, that's why p2w is causing such a huge debate. Yet those games always have people like you, who are defending their bs game with bs arguments à "but in reality some people are richter than others so p2w is totally legit and this game is not made to be fair hurr durr". This is exactly what people like you will say, if they make EfT p2w.

1 hour ago, ShiroTenshi said:

As the DEVs have said, if it cannot be done in real life it has no place in EFT.

You mean like respawning after dying and having a magical box which flies back to you and brings you some stuff? 

If I were to suggest to remove the secure containers from the game and reset your character/skills/progress entirely whenever you die, they would tell me "oh hey, great idea!"?

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well theres alot of things that cannot be done in real life that are done in eft instant healing with med kits etc, quite a long list, thats a rather ignorant argument coming from a moderator. squads all spawning on top of each other is one. The old setup where they at least spawned randomly was a little better. I've heard one of the devs klean up guy say playing as squads was frowned upon at one time during his stream and now i see him doing it constantly this patch. As someone who enjoys playing solo for the most part i agree there should be a squad que or something, its rather stupid most of the time. you cant move around the map as a solo player when you're matched with a squad unless they are completely incompetent. As far as pros and cons to every choice ridiculous statement, There are currently no cons to playing with a squad as opposed to solo, i've heard people talk about needing to communicate etc... really not a con, especially when you all spawn together. You have to blow it pretty badly and not talk at all to kill your own teammates, which happens but doesn't even come close to outweighing the benefits of squading up as opposed to solo players. 

So maybe if this is the path the devs actually want to take they should call it a squad shooter, I never would have bought it then, especially given the limited amount of players per raid, its ridiculous running into a 4 or even 5 man squad which is more than half the player population on most maps, even 3 man squads are just overkill on factory. As far as removing the adrenaline rush of wiping squads... take a page from pubg, allow a solo que into squad matching with no fill or something. Maybe the game will balance out for solo players as it progresses, i certainly hope so but for now those saying otherwise are just blowing smoke up my butt. I'm fine with a harcore game and a challenge, i'm just not fine with a game that feels like a waste of my time the majority of the time because i have zero chance to do anything other than try to hide and wait for the perfect opportunity which doesnt happen the vast majority of the time from a squad thats geared to the teeth, I mean its cool and feels good when you get the drop on a 2 man squad even managed a couple threes but it takes a ridiculous amount of luck to pull that off, and a massive amount of badluck or badplay from that squad. Gameplay seems pretty stale from a solo players point of view, too slow paced because you have to just wait and watch all the time because the odds are stacked way against you all the time. I don't get how squad play is even fun honestly with this few players, maybe if there are more per raid or instance down the line it will be fun but right now it seems to just be too many people with ocd who dont want to lose gear in a game not even close to being done and want to pubstomp others, If i was squaded up i would want to play against other squads not a random solo or two and a bunch of ai. Seems really ridiculous when i think about it like that

I've also heard nothing about the game being designed to be played in groups except for some whiny people on the internet who want to gang up on solo players. Where is the dev statement saying its squad based combat? I've seen comments to the contrary in the past mainly from streamers mind you which is why i bought it. So I can understand why this is upsetting some people, why would you limit how people can play the game? which is exactly whats happening to a degree in the current state. If there were 30 people or more even in a raid or server with a larger map, less chokepoints more space to actually move around and be undetected, and your squad limit was 4 maybe 5 I could see this being a bit better as a solo player could ambush squads engaging with one another and it would just be a more chaotic environment in general which would potentially aid a solo playstyle. Right now a good 3 man and up is just a juggernaut in a raid. The only thing that would stand in their way is another squad

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Some people are against the idea, but when the game fully releases on steam it will most likely attract a lot of people. And if the game has high enough player base it would make sense to have a matchmaking system similar to PUBG, where you can choose to go solo vs solo, solo vs duo, solo vs squad (4 people). That way you can still go alone vs teams or you can go only vs solo's. It also benefits teams, if i were to play with 3 other guys i'd rather have an epic battle versus other teams rather than a few solos whilst running and gunning.

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Lv really doesn't matter. You can kill fort guys with VPO136 just fine and that things is almost in every scav's hand now. However I am not opposed to new players being matched to relatively new players in the future once we achieve enough population to keep the learning curve slightly smoother and not making it too hard that new players quit easily at the start.

 

For groups, it is a problem. I don't really care how squad players say it is meant to be played in squad. Please use your brain and think. It is a game about choice of your play style not just squad. Both solo and squad should be viable. And if the squad play is the focus, the squad ID system would be in-game for a long time anyway. Plus, I don't see how people think a squad size of 50% of total PMC count is not a problem. It is just a pussy way out to do 5-man squad on factory with 6 max PMC. And it is still a huge advantage in bigger maps like shoreline. Small squad and solo in a single queue is needed if big squad is to be allowed. Those big squads needs to be matched against 1-2 similarly size squads to keep Tarkov experience a challenge rather than mostly a walk in the park (until getting too reckless for a team wipe). They will have a longer wait time as a result and also a penalty.

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Yes. I like killing groups when i play solo.

15 minutes ago, Creaturve said:

Some people are against the idea, but when the game fully releases on steam it will most likely attract a lot of people. And if the game has high enough player base it would make sense to have a matchmaking system similar to PUBG, where you can choose to go solo vs solo, solo vs duo, solo vs squad (4 people). That way you can still go alone vs teams or you can go only vs solo's. It also benefits teams, if i were to play with 3 other guys i'd rather have an epic battle versus other teams rather than a few solos whilst running and gunning.

So you want to take away one of the core mechanics that put you in situations that you do not expect?

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12 minutes ago, sYs said:

So you want to take away one of the core mechanics that put you in situations that you do not expect?

After playing the game for a while you already know what to expect.

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19 minutes ago, Creaturve said:

After playing the game for a while you already know what to expect.

Want to take that away and make another pubg? Hell let's dumb the game down even more. I better get in a raid and wonder if the guy i killed has friends or not nearby than knowing for 100% in team queue.. :D 

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Hell no. That is the best part about this game. I have only played solo, and I am lvl30 and doing fine. To be honest, I think it’s too easy to become geared in this game. I have more m4s than I know what to do with. Hunting squads solo at night with NVGS is the most fun I have next to factory runs right now. Killing squads is easy with an AKM or a VEPR, you just need to be tactical about, don’t shoot until you have a perfect shot. I once took out a squad that I was hunting for 30 mins waiting for the best opportunity. Got to a point where I had shots on all three of them and took all of them out with one clip from my akm136. They all have forts and kivers and NVGS. That’s the best feeling man.  

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Creaturve:

i'm sitting here lvl 3 with a broken akm and no armor matching against guys with high end gear

you are lvl 3, i kill you even if my mousefinger is broken and my girlfriend is sitting under my table, i dont need my friends for that

here is what happend to the last 5 man group i saw on customs

group.thumb.jpg.6724e03adee071ae64ed3e49bf9aaa76.jpg

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Creaturve:

After playing the game for a while you already know what to expect.

hehe, this game is complex, much more then other shooters, so im pretty sure you dont know exactly why you die and what to do against, otherwise you wouldnt start this kind of thread for sure

the only advice i can give you, if you are familiar with the basic gamemechanics start search for a team/group you like to play with yourself and learn by more expirienced players....

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this is the fun part of this game, u're never safe , when u think is no one left someone pops up from somewhere, for new players it's frustrating cuz u don't know the map u don't know how where to shoot you don't know where ppl like to camp, i remember in my first week playing tarkov somehow i managed to kill a fully geard guy with a makarov , gain silenced m4 armor helmet backpack and still had all traders lvl 1,his buddy came tryed to find me but i was sneeky and managed to hide from him cuz i was afraid to use the m4 didn't know how powerfull it was cuz i had that guy with the back on me , i was so exiting of having a sileced m4 when i couldn't buy even an ak74n, and i think this is the best part of this game, starting fresh hatchet or pistol and came out of the raid fully geard or go and catch off guard a group of 3 4 players kill them all and next think u have the biggest problem :)) what to loot and what to leave. it's just for now after lets say 3 weeks  you will change your oppinion

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2 hours ago, Exoskeleton said:

they will, as Twerkings stated. 

/Closed.

One step closer to the average shooter. 

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3 hours ago, barbaru2202 said:

this is the fun part of this game, u're never safe , when u think is no one left someone pops up from somewhere, for new players it's frustrating cuz u don't know the map u don't know how where to shoot you don't know where ppl like to camp, i remember in my first week playing tarkov somehow i managed to kill a fully geard guy with a makarov , gain silenced m4 armor helmet backpack and still had all traders lvl 1,his buddy came tryed to find me but i was sneeky and managed to hide from him cuz i was afraid to use the m4 didn't know how powerfull it was cuz i had that guy with the back on me , i was so exiting of having a sileced m4 when i couldn't buy even an ak74n, and i think this is the best part of this game, starting fresh hatchet or pistol and came out of the raid fully geard or go and catch off guard a group of 3 4 players kill them all and next think u have the biggest problem :)) what to loot and what to leave. it's just for now after lets say 3 weeks  you will change your oppinion

The problem is not really about the solo guy. it is the 5 man easy mode factory problem. I think most people here will happily embrace 1v3 and things like that even though it is not exactly fair but the lack of complete fairness is the charm of tarkov. But super size squad on small maps is just way too easy for the squaddies that they need to be put into a more challenging position, which means another one or two squads for a surprise over-populated encounter and some exciting fire fights. And there will still be solo around if possibile

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It's really amazing how far some people twist words to suit their uninformed views.

All you really need to find out everything you need to about EFT is to sit down for 30 minutes and do a bit of research. Watching a streamer is not research. Buying a game because you liked what you saw in a stream is not making an informed purchase and if you don't make an informed purchase than that is on you.

Try visiting the project News section and reading the old interviews. Or even the transcripts of the dev answers from the Russian side of the forum.

Perhaps even visit their Youtube channel and watch the videos.

Maybe, just maybe, even read  the FAQs:

1

2

3

You will find gems like this:

Quote

Players will be joining to random raid, regardless of playing style (alone or in a team).

Or this:

Quote

The game will have a location-based system. You have to pass the first location to get to the second and so on. And the further you go, the harder it gets. And you will not be able to pass all the locations by yourself. The game is more party-based.

Quote

Team play is one of the most important aspects to any MMO projects. What do players have to expect from Escape From Tarkov in that regard? How will they interact? Shall it be possible to clear the game solo?

We would like to specifically point out that the game can be cleared solo, without partners, on beginner locations. From there on, however, either increasingly high skill or the help of the trusted partners will be required. 

Now please take into account that this does not mean the game is meant to be played ONLY in groups. It means that although there are both options available and it certainly is possible to play SOLO, the game is more geared towards groups.

Personally i am not against SOLO and Groups in the same raid. I gear up solo so i have gear to take when i group up with my friends. Like i said, there are pros and cons to both choices even if you can't see them.

Yet some people say 'Why limit how people can play?'. Isn't segregating both play-styles to separate patching doing exactly that? I quite enjoy the adrenaline of being solo and going up against groups. I want my chance at riches like i have several times before and came out the victor. 

EFT is about choice. Want to play solo? Sure, but know it's going to be harder. Want to play as a group? Can do, but know it's not going to be as rewarding. Does it need tweaking? Sure does. Not denying it. I personally feel teams of 3 would be the best thing to go with.

But why gimp one of the main selling points of the game by dividing the playerbase?

 

6 hours ago, Satah said:

You mean like respawning after dying and having a magical box which flies back to you and brings you some stuff? 

If I were to suggest to remove the secure containers from the game and reset your character/skills/progress entirely whenever you die, they would tell me "oh hey, great idea!"?

I sure wouldn't mind if they did. Seeing as the only reason they did that was to not make it totally unfair on everyone.

Quote

When you die in the game, in some cases you lose everything you've found--what was the thinking behind this kind of punishment?

We carefully thought this out as one of the features that significantly deepens the feeling of reality this game needs to deliver. If you die, you will lose everything you brought with you and everything you have found. It may be harsh, but it will teach the lesson, and next time the player will learn from previous mistakes. However, since our game is pretty hard and surviving will be much more difficult than dying, especially for players with no previous experience, we didn't go as far as to introduce a permanent death or full loot. If killed, the player gets to keep all the skills, weapons, gear and loot stored in the stash, and items locked away in a special secure container.

It's amazing what the DEVs have made available right here on this forum for us to read, if only most people would take the time to.

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9 hours ago, Creaturve said:

As a new player i'm getting frustrated by how extremely difficult it is for me to actually get some progress. 

I've got no issues getting loot and killing Scavs, but when it comes to other players i'm having a hard time. Most players i match with are lvl 15+, i'm sitting here lvl 3 with a broken akm and no armor matching against guys with high end gear. I've often gotten major advantages against players, shooting them countless times in the back only for them to turn around on 1 shot me in the face with their fancy scopes and ar rifles, ignoring all my damage because armor.. 

Now for the first time i manage to kill a player with armor + helmet, but i notice 2 other guys not far ahead rushing me for killing their friend. Which made me question the matchmaking of this game, should groups not only match with other groups for balance purposes ? It's frustrating for newer players to not only get matched against veterans but also groups of 2-3 guys. Which will most likely mean newer players will give up on this game sooner or later because they have no actual chance of getting any progress.

Get in a Squad or Group, Your chances of winning raid will be increased by 50%

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41 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

It's amazing what the DEVs have made available right here on this forum for us to read, if only most people would take the time to.

1

Snipped the quote but I'm referring to your whole post:

I cannot upvote this enough. Thanks for taking the time to explain this so clearly for everyone.

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9 hours ago, Creaturve said:

... Most players i match with are lvl 15+, i'm sitting here lvl 3 with a broken akm and no armor matching against guys with high end gear. I've often gotten major advantages against players, shooting them countless times in the back only for them to turn around on 1 shot me in the face with their fancy scopes and ar rifles, ignoring all my damage because armor ...

Again it's a long term mistake from devs. More this game get older, bigger the difference between new players and old player will be. (Market restriction, skill bonuses ...) they already get a serious advantage by knowing loot position, camp position, extra exit option (factory key), ... 

9 hours ago, Deadmode said:

... Also, any form of matchmaking would kill the game and the tension experienced by not knowing what you are up against. I made a post on a similar thread here. ...

So you didn't know you are only fighting just one PMC and low geared scav when you plays with 5 of your friends ?

9 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

.... The only advantage they have is access to better traders. As far as how good you can do ingame that is all individual skill and not level based ...

Don't forget attributes bonuses (+10% to +50% isn't nothing ...)

9 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

Solo vs Grouped matching does not belong in this game. As the DEVs have said, if it cannot be done in real life it has no place in EFT. 

I don't think you have one or 2 extractions point IRL; I don't think you have time limit IRL; I don't think you can put 30 ammos in a magazine in less than 1 second IRL; Did something like EFT happen IRL ?

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59 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

It's really amazing how far some people twist words to suit their uninformed views.

All you really need to find out everything you need to about EFT is to sit down for 30 minutes and do a bit of research. Watching a streamer is not research. Buying a game because you liked what you saw in a stream is not making an informed purchase and if you don't make an informed purchase than that is on you.

Try visiting the project News section and reading the old interviews. Or even the transcripts of the dev answers from the Russian side of the forum.

Perhaps even visit their Youtube channel and watch the videos.

Maybe, just maybe, even read  the FAQs:

1

2

3

You will find gems like this:

Or this:

Now please take into account that this does not mean the game is meant to be played ONLY in groups. It means that although there are both options available and it certainly is possible to play SOLO, the game is more geared towards groups.

Personally i am not against SOLO and Groups in the same raid. I gear up solo so i have gear to take when i group up with my friends. Like i said, there are pros and cons to both choices even if you can't see them.

Yet some people say 'Why limit how people can play?'. Isn't segregating both play-styles to separate patching doing exactly that? I quite enjoy the adrenaline of being solo and going up against groups. I want my chance at riches like i have several times before and came out the victor. 

EFT is about choice. Want to play solo? Sure, but know it's going to be harder. Want to play as a group? Can do, but know it's not going to be as rewarding. Does it need tweaking? Sure does. Not denying it. I personally feel teams of 3 would be the best thing to go with.

But why gimp one of the main selling points of the game by dividing the playerbase?

 

I sure wouldn't mind if they did. Seeing as the only reason they did that was to not make it totally unfair on everyone.

It's amazing what the DEVs have made available right here on this forum for us to read, if only most people would take the time to.

Still doesn't mean oversized groups  is not a problem though I would imagine it would be at least not so problematic if the raid format is finally removed when the big map is done. However, it is still a problem now. 5 man squad is hard to fight not just with solo but also small 2-3 man squad. (but of couse way easier when you got a buddy or two to go up against 5 geared guys) There should at least be some effort to disallow things like 5 man factory, 5 man customs etc and have the size scale based on the raid size. Otherwise, it will be a walk in Park Tarkov not Escape from Tarkov anymore.

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3 minutes ago, Ang3vil said:

Again it's a long term mistake from devs. More this game get older, bigger the difference between new players and old player will be. (Market restriction, skill bonuses ...) they already get a serious advantage by knowing loot position, camp position, extra exit option (factory key), ... 

So you didn't know you are only fighting just one PMC and low geared scav when you plays with 5 of your friends ?

Don't forget attributes bonuses (+10% to +50% isn't nothing ...)

I don't think you have one or 2 extractions point IRL; I don't think you have time limit IRL; I don't think you can put 30 ammos in a magazine in less than 1 second IRL; Did something like EFT happen IRL ?

I would say that the bonus amount needs rework and skill training, too. The current way is just way more place-holder-ish than it should be. I also dislike how big the difference of Lv0 vs Lv51 is for some bonuses. I mean, a guy just passed basic training shouldn't be able to run 100% faster after a few years of training and fighting unless the starting bar is so low. It also shouldn't be liner so you get a slightly bigger bonus at lower level and marginally smaller benefit...It feels like the MMORPG element is being somewhat over emphasizedeven though it should be a shooter game first and foremost given the huge skill buffs and who knows how much the other skills will work.

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