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  1. My goal here is to discuss, "What if the tried and true two-part manner of representing recoil is actually wrong, and has spoiled us after all this time? What if the efforts EFT is making in regard to recoil are actually more appropriate, but that after all this years of playing FPS's we're just simply not used to it?" Interested in looking into this further? Then come on in, let's get to it! ----- Traditionally, FPS's have relied upon two mechanics to represent aiming and recoil. The first we'll look at, is what I'm going to call the "bloom" or "dispersion" area. This can be visualized as a shape that widens and contracts over time, representing where the player's bullet might land for any given shot. Each "click" of the mouse generally widens the shape (or, for automatics, the longer the mouse is held down). This "bloom rate" is balanced against the shape's rate of contraction. The more the user waits between each click of his mouse, the more time to circle has to "shrink back down" to it's initial size. The balancing act that goes on here can be imagined as a sort of "user input race". How quickly the shape vs how quickly it returns to normal can help give the "feeling" of more or less recoil control. Notice too how, in the illustrations above, playing with different "shapes" can help give the sense that weapons may buck or kick in different directions, with different patterns, or signatures. The second mechanic often used is what I'll refer to as cursor displacement. This is the game moving the player's mouse position. This effect is also used primarily as a means to simulate the weapon violently "jerking" upward after breaking the shot. Games move the player's mouse upward and possibly slightly to one side or another and then, either leave the mouse at this new position or add a slight "drift" back downward to represent a sort of "cushion" effect. In each of these cases, though, it is important to note that the cursor position is directly influenced. Here's an illustration: Combining these two mechanics together, then, results in something similar to this: Note how the cursor's position is moved away from its original location and that the weapon's intended point of impact tracks the cursor position throughout. Now, Escape From Tarkov caught on to something very interesting here. And that is, the role of the user's cursor position. In traditional FPS games, the user's cursor position is used as a point of feedback as to where the weapon is currently pointed (as we discussed above). But is this the only way of interpreting it? What if we take a step back and instead view the cursor as representing the player's point of aim and allow the weapon to act independently? Something wholly different begins to emerge! For example, in real life, if I draw down on a target with my pistol, every time I break a shot, I'm trying to hit the same area. But, due to a multitude of factors we'll simply refer to here as "recoil", whether or not I'm able to accurately place those rounds on target is a different matter. Generally, the faster I shoot, the closer I start to approach the boundary of my capabilities. Shoot too quickly, and the gun will simply start to "get ahead of me", so to speak. As I get better at shooting, this threshold can be pushed further and further, allowing me to retain control at various rates of fire. It's important to distinguish here that during rapid fire, my intended target does not jerk ever-upward. The firearm is what is moving, not my "focus" or intent. In the same way, EFT seems to interpret the user's cursor position to represent where the user wants his avatar to aim, not necessarily where the weapon's muzzle is currently pointing. Just as in my real life example above, the player's character is always TRYING to hit a certain target, and the weapon then, kind of takes on a life of its own. To accomplish this, EFT introduces a third element of recoil control that I'll refer to here as the "weapon aim point". Now, we have three dynamics in play, rather than the usual two: 1) Bloom 2) Cursor position 3) Weapon aim point. How might that look? Note how the user's cursor position remains stable, and how the bloom spreads in relation to the weapon's aim point, which itself moves off target, then resetles close to the user's cursor position. In this way, EFT's recoil "patterns" (for lack of a better word) are more akin to a spray of water from a wale's blow hole. The water shoots up, spreads out, then falls back downward. The "patterns" are not static and inline with the cursor, but "float" relative the weapon's dynamic point of aim. In my opinion, this is brilliant and is a much more nuanced and accurate way to represent what goes on and what it feels like to shoot an automatic weapon. This leaves the developers a wider range of ways to represent both how different weapons feel and to also the different levels of skill in managing recoil. A tighter bloom shape may represent the user controlling the weapon better (think of trying to stabilize a rattling jackhammer). How far the weapon aim point shifts away from the user's cursor position may relate to how stable the shooter's platform is in relation to the weapon's kick. The rate at which the weapon's aim point returns to the user's cursor position is also important here. For example, a common complaint of EFT's current implementation is that semi auto fire is discouraged. One way BSG might approach this is to return the cursor position on a nonlinear scale that coincides with the weapon's automatic rate of fire. Break one shot, WHAM the muzzle jerks offline then begins to resettle. The start of the weapon's muzzle coming back down could be quite fast, but then it could taper off and slow down as it nears the cursor's position. This way, if a shooter rips of two single shots in rapid succession, unless he "times it" to his skill level, each successive jerk offline of the muzzle will only further add to the distance between the weapon's aim point and his intended target. Just as in real life. The main point here being that, perhaps a weapon should respond more or less consistently to the rate of fire, not necessarily to the fire mode. This way, if a weapon fires at 900 rpm, and the avatar's skill level is currently near, say 750-800 rpm, he should be able to single fire at 700 rpm and OVERALL be more accurate than full auto. I say "OVERALL" because again, just as he will quickly "get used to" a stream of fully automatic fire, he will also quickly "get used to" a stream of rapid semi automatic fire. The main differences being perhaps the magnitude and rate of muzzle aim change, as well as the size of the "bloom" shapes. Thoughts? Improvements? Thanks for reading, interested in hearing your feedback! ----- Post-script: In real life, if I'm taking multiple shots in rapid succession, I don't necessarily "fully re-aim" before each and every shot. There's no time for that. Instead, I trust in my training and focus on firing "within my cadence". The moment the front sight seems to be drifting back on target, BOOM, I take another shot, trusting that the literal act of breaking an intentional shot will "do the rest" and bring it on target. Once these underlying mechanics are mastered, I explore instinctive shooting at close to the same rate of fire, but that's a wholly separate topic. Case and point: Watch a shooter take multiple shots at a moving target in real life that's outside of, say, 30 meters. Very rarely will his shot times even come CLOSE to what we're used to see in a first person shooter. It's not BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!! It's BLAM *slight pause* BLAM *slight pause* BLAM! This is what I mean when I say we've possibly been "spoiled" over all these years by having accurate fire be overly controlled by nothing more than a few small mouse movements. In real life, it's much more difficult to place accurate shots. And in this way, I feel EFT is on the right path (again, not yet fully arrived, but in my book, definitely getting there).
  2. What do you think about the current automatic recoil control system made by the character during a full auto, and what do you think about the idea of changing this mechanic by a manual recoil control made by the player, which would vary depending on its in-game skills in oder to make the game more realist, as explained at the end of the video (ENG Subtitled) at 7:00 ?
  3. Comparison Image Comparison Video Side by Side Stats The recoil stat for M4 is 174 and for AK-74 is 227 but in practice the m4 has more recoil. I am by no means a weapon expert but just with a quick test I found that a well modded M4 has more recoil (unmodded m4 is even worse ) than a default AK-74N. The M4 does have a higher fire rate but considering the M4 is modded and is worth $1000 compared to the AK-74N which is worth $210 it doesn't really make sense. Further, the best M4 round, the M995(you need level 7 sniping for this) has 38 damage and 50 armor pen where as the 5.45x39 BS has 40 damage and 48 armor pen. The next best M4 rounds has worse armor pen than the 5th best 5.45x39 round. at level 4 Peacekeeper you can only buy M855A1 5.56x45 which only has 28 armor pen, worse than most 5.45x39 ammo. So basically there is no practical reason to use the M4A1 when i can put a dot sight on the ak-74 and its a better weapon. Are there plans to change this or is this the way its mean to be?
  4. Dooum

    M4A1 Lowest Recoil

    Hello , Je post une M4A1 avec un recoil au plus bas , je peut pas faire mieux , si sa intéresse certain modders ;) .
  5. Automatic Recoil As a player dedicated to both realism and balance, I suggest that full-auto should not be automatically compensated by your character, but rather a traditional player-controlled compensation(such as ArmA 3's system) where you have to manually pull down to adjust for recoil. Please take note however, I only wish to apply this to full auto; semi-automatic is fine the way it is, with the aim point resetting after each shot - although I wouldn't mind if there were some minor tweaks. This would discourage the full-auto meta that is currently in effect while promoting longer firefights in general, with skill becoming more important than who has a faster firing weapon. Limb Damage My second suggestion is that blacked out limbs can be repaired to a percentage of their respective health. Three ways to achieve this off the top of my head could be: 1. A personal medical item, such as the Xstat syringe - would require a bleeding, destroyed limb to be patched and take 'x' amount of time to apply. 2. A rest mechanic with the character resting for an certain amount of time - not a huge fan of this tbh, but it is an idea. 3. A surgical kit to be used by another player, which would promote teamplay, but give diminishing returns upon consecutive uses. This came to me when I thought about the eventual free roam of the entire map; I for one don't want to be limited to limping for kilometers on end, be continually dehydrating due to a blacked out stomach before I hit an extract or in general becoming a liability to my teammates. I believe this would extend the capabilities of casualties by giving them more options beyond popping painkillers and make consecutive firefights more attractive as an options, rather than having a casualty becoming a 'walking dead man' with multiple limbs destroyed. Please feel free to add your own thoughts, I am curious to see how our community would feel if these mechanics were implemented. Song of the day: Valkyrie - Battle Tapes
  6. After I'd posted in the weapons department it got me thinking that I haven't seen or heard about them adding comps or ported slides for pistols. This would be a great addition to the modifications you could conduct on your handguns to help control recoil and muzzle climb.
  7. qS_Sachiel

    AKS74U recoil (buttpad)

    PSA: some have probably already figured it out (did a quick search, didn't see much - search actually broke and told me to search in 3 secs, loop). Basically the long and hard: rubber butpad got nerfed from --15recoil down to --4. This means for the AKS74U best 'stats' has changed (i'm currently at lv3 all traders and haven't seen beyond yet)... See attached for comparison, where Option 1 is the previous loadout i'd rock, was superior at --55recoil and has now changed +11 to an inferior --44 recoil (ergo appears unchanged from memory).
  8. Kedzie

    6G15U Unavailable

    The rubber recoil pad for the AK began disappearing as of today (1/13/18). Not sure if players are just hoarding an insane amount of them or if the quantity went down. Please increase the quantity of the recoil pads at reset, because they're a really good item that shouldn't be so restrictive to get.
  9. RainmakerM4

    M4A1 Recoil all over the place

    Hey guys, Since the new 0.5.xx patch we have noticed that the recoil on M4s are ridiculously high now. For comparison you can better control an AKM (in 7.62 caliber) than you can an M4 (in 5.56). An AK74 has far better recoil. Highly anoying and unrealistic. The way recoil on M4 in the old patch worked was awesome and real. The fully automatic spray would start uncontrolably and then your character would get back on target after 5-6-7 shots. Now, its all over the place. Its like I am shooting an HMG handheld like rambo. Just putting our opinion out there, Cheers Rain
  10. I was surprised to find that you can mount an M4 suppressor on top of a compensator. That per se wasn't as surprising as the fact that the recoil reduction of the two is summed, instead of replaced. Let me explain why this is an error. A compensator reduces vertical recoil by forcing gases exiting the barrel upwards, causing a downward force on the barrel. When a suppressor is mounted on top of a compensator, the gasses have nowhere to go, but inside the silencer. Thus, the recoil reduction created by the compensator is negated by the suppressor. That is the expected outcome in real-life physics and should be matched with in-game mechanics. No wonder the M4 has exceptionally low recoil coupled with silenced fire: it defies physics. I consider this a glitch, because stats-wise the two components should not stack with each other, but instead the benefits of a silencer should replace those of a compensator. Otherwise, there is no tradeoff in performance. It's equivalent to adding more ergonomics for multiple tactical grips; it makes no sense.
  11. Im playing EFT since Alpha and im playing a lot. I had always a feeling that there is no big difference in terms of recoil between stock weapons and fully modded ones. So I did some test to check it out. But first overall look on recoil in different weapons. Link with all the pictures from test: https://imgur.com/a/Akdni Pic. 1 - you can see recoil test shooting from a distance about 80 meters (so most common in EFT battles) - the weapons are stock models: PP 19 (left) and MP 5 (right). PP 19 has a quite big initial kick when MP 5 has actually all the bullets in the same area. Pic 2 - Same distance (80m) - fully modded weapoons: AKM (left) vs. AK 74N (right). Simillar situation as with SMGs. AKM has bigger spread with the initial kick to the top and AK 74 is more focused. So AK74 looks better. Pic. 3 - AK74 comparison: weapon with no mods (on the left) and fully modded one (on the right), distance 100 meters. You can see there is no actual difference between them which is a big surprise. Pic. 4 - same weapons (AK74) but bigger distance. The difference between fully modded weapon and unmodded is almost unnoticeable. Pic. 5 - time for American beauty - M4 Distance 80 meters, one weapon is fully modded (left) and another one is with no mods (right). Results? - slightly bigger horizontal spread with unmodded weapon. Pic. 6 - M4 on bigger distance (160 meters) - you can see the difference between fully modded and unmodded weapon when shooting from far distance but still - its not that big. Is it worth spending couple of hundreds dollars more on it? Dont think so... Pic. 7-10 you can see how I modded those weapons in tests. TL;DR IMHO there is only very little difference (or none) between fully modded weapon and a stock weapon in terms of recoil. I dont know how is IRL but I think it should be bigger difference in that matter when you spent few hundreds of game dollars more to make your weapon looking nice.
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