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8odycount

Bots are unpredictable and RNG, minefields, mortars will be the same

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8odycount

The most scary thing in this game are clearly the bots. You enter a raid, 30 seconds, a bot sees you and suddenly black arm, black leg, raid ended for you, you can leave.

Or they simply give you a one tap with a shotgun from 50 meters away. THIS IS RNG!!! Nothing else. This is by far the most annoying thing in Tarkov. And this didn't change since YEARS!

It will always feel like the game betrayed you, because it's a machine, a code which decided you're gonna die now. You will never be able to say, okay this guy was really good. This is RNG. I repeat. RNG. Random events. All your loot is gone, because a stupid civilian scavenger has unhuman aimbot skills.

And the same will go for minefields, claymores, mortars and all this fancy "coooool" stuff, which will make the game unenjoyable. Hey, you're dead, your stuff is gone and you couldn't do anything about it. Live with it... That's just a stupid method to bring "difficulty" into the game. But it doesn't make the game difficult, it makes it horrible annoying, because there's nothing you can do. The game just randomly decides: you are dead. Scavs should only be dangerous in groups. Simple as that. They can kill you when you are not careful. Everything else will always feel very bad. I rather die from a good player 100  times than one time from a stupid AIM-bot.

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Phoenixsui
Posted (edited)

Hm the only 1 taps i get are Raiders. Thats fine from time to time. Hunter vepr Scavs are also scary since they 2 shot into chest.

But shotgun onetaps are easy deniable with Body armor.

But Scavs have a other stupid behavior at the moment.

Example: If you stay in a bush to ambush someone or heal or whatever and a scav patrol walks right next to your bush. And then someone start shooting at him, he will kill or shoot you in that bush even if you are hidden and were not aggroed to them before. If the guy shooting him is farther away then you from this scav.

This is really annoying sometimes.

Edited by Phoenixsui
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Chaos_Theorist

Definitely agree there are serious problems with scav mechanics right now.  But Raider mechanics vs Scav mechanics are two different discussions, I think.   When it comes to scavs, their peripheral vision/awareness and their RIDICULOUS aim are my biggest pet peeves.   It's one thing if it's a brightly lit day and a sniper scav happens to spot you from the roof of customs.  But when you're on a fully rained-out night raid and a scav IMMEDIATELY notices you when you enter his 180º line of sight...that's a problem.   When you are by dorms on customs and a scav can hit you with EVERY bullet while you have zero visibility through multiple bushes and shrubs...that's a problem.  When you are full sprint and zigzagging between cover 30 yards away, but every shot from that untrained, possibly drunk civilian contacts you...that's a problem, too.    The fact that every scav without a flashlight has perfect night-sight from ANY distance is a huge ducking problem too.   

And this is all without mentioning the weird anomaly servers/scavs that are utterly broken and break all the games rules and then some.   Anyone get cucked by night vision yet, where every single scav on the map can see you will continue to shoot at you?   I was on interchange in the garage underneath Hanoi and had 5-6 scavs from every direction shooting at me THROUGH the floor.  no damage, but they kept shouting and shooting and behaving like that had a clear line of sight through a cement level border on all sides.   Even got the dimmed vision like bullets were whizzing by.   Kept targeting me all the way out the back on on the way to South extract.

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ShiroTenshi

While i do agree that scavs need a lot of work, the DEVs have already said the current behavior is not final and they will be contantly changed and improved to be more believable.

About the RNG, Nikita himself has said during one of the podcasts that he wants there to be a RNG component to the game, so that there's an element of unpredictability to gameplay. 

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8odycount

Personally RnG to me is the worst thing what can happen to a shooter. Especially to a shooter where you can lose everything you played for a lot.

This game should be a skill based game. Everything else feels simply wrong, like in every other game. Reminds me of BF3, when they over exaggerated the suppression effect and your bullets went into nirvana, although your crosshair was on the head of an enemy.

And the other thing is, that scav bots are this way since 3 years or 2. Can't remember correctly.

I mean this for example

Bot shoots through bushes. 2 taps and dead. Yesterday I shot a bot from 2 meters right in the chest with SNB ammo. 2 hits, and he kills me. This stuff happens a lot to me. Scavs walking past me 50 meters away, I am not moving at all and suddenly they turn around and start shooting. That's BY FAR the most annoying thing in this game. Bots simply are annoying. I don't know anyone or can remember to have enjoyed bots at any time. They are even more annoying than zombies in dayz. Bots should only be dangerous in groups or when you are acting stupid.

 

 

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Chaos_Theorist
Posted (edited)

I fully understand that scavs work as a fantastic deterrent to hatchlings that try to zip in and grab the loot before anyone else can.   That's why IMMIDIATELY smashing the hangar/parking lot button in Lab is such a viable strategy--the raiders come out and clean up any LedX/Defib-swiping hatchy-bois.    I don't even mind that scavs are now being armed with DEADLY freaking weapons that will one-tap you.   It's totally conceivable that a scavenger could come across some SEXY ass loot on a dead PMC.  (Also, I would like to see scav AI be able to LOOT DEAD PMCs and use their gear against you.  THAT would be terrifying and add a cool dynamic.  Different discussion, though).   Back on topic, scavs are--by definition--untrained, possibly drunk civilians that may have fired a weapon and MAY even be proficient at it.   But most trained PMCs would not be able to consistently hit a fast moving, zig-zagging target.   Especially with an iron sight.        

Create more GROUPS of scavs if you have to.  Just take away the terrifying T1000 cybernetic android aim.   It's scary and rage-inducing in all the wrong ways.

 

Edit:   Rashali and company, Killa and company, and any other future bosses KEEP JUST AS THEY ARE.   Or even make harder if you want.  Totally cool with that.  Bumping into a boss group should be exhilarating and immediately make everyone get into squad-killing mode.   But random roamers should be potatoes.   (OOOO.   Or just sprinkle in more TYPES of scavs.   So like when you get lasered and your buddy kills the scavs and rolls up to check him it's like. "Oh poo dude, it's a crazy looking-scav with an eyepatch and modded AKM." )  

That way it's at least like...Well damn.  That explains how he shut me down so fast...

Edited by Chaos_Theorist

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ShiroTenshi
22 hours ago, Chaos_Theorist said:

 Back on topic, scavs are--by definition--untrained, possibly drunk civilians that may have fired a weapon and MAY even be proficient at it.   

While scavs are indeed civilians that chose to stay behind so they could profit out of the chaos, theya re not exactly untrained.

If you read the lore of the scav groups, you will see that some are ex police, security forces, hardened criminals, etc (Yes, the SCAVS, not the raiders. Raiders are rogue PMCs). Not only that, they are Russian. In Russia military service is mandatory and lasts for 18 months. Yes, they are not special forces operatives but neither are the PMCs. Scavs are in no way shape or form supposed to be weak civilian practice dummies. They are supposed to be a threat on part with that of other players. 

While they do behave exceedingly inhuman in most aspects, like i stated above the plan is to actually rework them to be more believable. However this work isn't easy or fast. DEVs are aware the Scavs need work and work is being done, but it won't be finished by a simple push of a button. It'll take time and for other priorities to be taken care of (like Unity 2018 upgrade for example) before it gets the focus it needs.

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Wurfy
21 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

While scavs are indeed civilians that chose to stay behind so they could profit out of the chaos, theya re not exactly untrained.

If you read the lore of the scav groups, you will see that some are ex police, security forces, hardened criminals, etc (Yes, the SCAVS, not the raiders. Raiders are rogue PMCs). Not only that, they are Russian. In Russia military service is mandatory and lasts for 18 months. Yes, they are not special forces operatives but neither are the PMCs. Scavs are in no way shape or form supposed to be weak civilian practice dummies. They are supposed to be a threat on part with that of other players. 

While they do behave exceedingly inhuman in most aspects, like i stated above the plan is to actually rework them to be more believable. However this work isn't easy or fast. DEVs are aware the Scavs need work and work is being done, but it won't be finished by a simple push of a button. It'll take time and for other priorities to be taken care of (like Unity 2018 upgrade for example) before it gets the focus it needs.

But one should take into account that most of the military is POGs who in a conscript army probably shoot maybe 10 magazines throughout their service and seven of them aren't counted in any way so it doesn't matter if they miss every shot. And they did that 20 years ago and haven't touched a gun since.

Here in Estonia I served 11 months in combat engineers which is in the gray area where some consider us POGs and others don't. Certainly a lot less POGgy than anything besides infantry. And I'm almost certain that for me less than five-ish magazines counted for anything at all, probably closer to three or four. I didn't really count because early on I naively assumed I'd lose count. You certainly won't learn to shoot well in conscript service unless you're infantry or at least a designated marksman.

People do need to learn that fixing something like AI doesn't happen by a dev waving a magic wand, though. I can't even begin to imagine how you go about making a believable AI...

On 7/23/2019 at 2:08 AM, Chaos_Theorist said:

Bumping into a boss group should be exhilarating and immediately make everyone get into squad-killing mode.

What looney-land do you play in? Half the time I don't even carry enough ammo to deal with a boss fight. The only time I took them all out and then lived to loot and even extract, I literally didn't realize what I'd gotten myself into until it was way too late to get away and then I got lucky on top of that to actually not die. The only time I got Killa he simply glitched out so I was able to shoot at his legs until he died. The other time I met him I shot him in the head some 15 times with M856A1 before he killed me. The game registered 160-ish damage done with 17 hits and on my screen no more than two hit anywhere other than the head. I guess the game thought otherwise.

So normally when I see boss scavs I either run away or get into the rapid-onset-acute-lead-poisoning-with-severe-lacerations-and-hemorrhaging mode.

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Speznat

bots are a  little bit to hard sometimes, its more luck than skill i have many freinds that play maybe 1-2 hours a day, not everyday but form time to time so in gerneral a casual player. they often say the bots are to hard in multiplayer. I play like 5 times more for me they are a little bit to rng but good. but please make them slighty easier, many get frustrated when they killed by bots, the rela thread in tarkov should be players not bots.

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Chaos_Theorist
On 7/24/2019 at 2:24 PM, Wurfy said:

What looney-land do you play in? Half the time I don't even carry enough ammo to deal with a boss fight. The only time I took them all out and then lived to loot and even extract, I literally didn't realize what I'd gotten myself into until it was way too late to get away and then I got lucky on top of that to actually not die. The only time I got Killa he simply glitched out so I was able to shoot at his legs until he died. The other time I met him I shot him in the head some 15 times with M856A1 before he killed me. The game registered 160-ish damage done with 17 hits and on my screen no more than two hit anywhere other than the head. I guess the game thought otherwise.

So normally when I see boss scavs I either run away or get into the rapid-onset-acute-lead-poisoning-with-severe-lacerations-and-hemorrhaging mode.

I guess the looney land where I've played the game entirely too much, accumulated 50 million rubles, and thoroughly enjoy engaging Rashala or Killa  :P.     At least more than I would with wandering scavs.  But don't get me wrong.. I get that a lot of the streamers and higher-tier players lose sight of what the game really should be and the main demographic and player-base.   That boss fight you survived may have been a terrifying poo-show--but you came out on top and have a pretty vivid memory ----------------

-- There was some discussion recently about Veritas and his views on what should change, regarding this.  

That initial fear when you're still learning and mastering the game evolves into something totally different as you play more, level up, gain wealth and eliminate that gear fear.   Big reason why I will always love it so much.    I definitely remember that feeling of bumping into Rashala early in the wipe armed with a vepr and ps ammo xD

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Wurfy
1 hour ago, Chaos_Theorist said:

I guess the looney land where I've played the game entirely too much, accumulated 50 million rubles, and thoroughly enjoy engaging Rashala or Killa  :P.     At least more than I would with wandering scavs.  But don't get me wrong.. I get that a lot of the streamers and higher-tier players lose sight of what the game really should be and the main demographic and player-base.   That boss fight you survived may have been a terrifying poo-show--but you came out on top and have a pretty vivid memory ----------------

-- There was some discussion recently about Veritas and his views on what should change, regarding this.  

That initial fear when you're still learning and mastering the game evolves into something totally different as you play more, level up, gain wealth and eliminate that gear fear.   Big reason why I will always love it so much.    I definitely remember that feeling of bumping into Rashala early in the wipe armed with a vepr and ps ammo xD

Can't say I have a whole lot of gear fear, I think I could keep running Redut-M/ULACH/M4 continuously and still make money. But bumping into boss scavs still doesn't make me go squad-killing mode.

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Chaos_Theorist
9 hours ago, Wurfy said:

Can't say I have a whole lot of gear fear, I think I could keep running Redut-M/ULACH/M4 continuously and still make money. But bumping into boss scavs still doesn't make me go squad-killing mode.

Oh well, just me I guess.   I looooove popping Rashala and his buddies from afar with a reapIR.   Killa is more annoying and unpredictable, but still a rush.

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Ludwig_Steiner

The amount of frustration I had while fighting SCAVS. Some godlike, 360°, Mosin-to-the-face-Aimbot bullshit they pull all the time. Its like a ticking clock, you have 2 seconds to react, if you dont they F u up really good.

 

on the other side, sometimes they are even uncapable of walking straight.

 

Its just frustrating.

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