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Jackthelycan

Question about containers and the potential removal of them

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svelve

Lemme get this straight.

Containers = stuff You put in them PRIOR to raid? Cant put loot You GAIN from the raid in them? I see no problem with that. Thats not catering to anyone. There is still a safe holding for some keys, ammo?, meds? or w/e.

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Yeavo
15 minutes ago, svelve said:

Lemme get this straight.

Containers = stuff You put in them PRIOR to raid? Cant put loot You GAIN from the raid in them? I see no problem with that. Thats not catering to anyone. There is still a safe holding for some keys, ammo?, meds? or w/e.

It caters to those who already have the completed their tasks and have progressed to a point where buying the best gear is just a matter of slight inconvenience. People who don't have keys/haven't progressed to level 4 trading have to loot them and extract with them while trying to run from thicc boys with zero recoil lasergatlings. Makes the whole progression curve even more steep and frustrating which will lead to people quitting and overall player counts plummeting into a death spiral. There is challenging and then there is just unfair. Its all about balancing and balance isn't something hardcore players want. The "git gud" crowd ultimately kill every game they get to dictate.

Post Scriptum addition Edit: I enjoy PvP and get tremendeous joy out of killing more geared players. As an EOD owner I'm also at a slight advantage since my initial standing with the traders a bit higher than standard edition players. I take issue with BSG listening to only their "hardcore" audience because I enjoy PvP and want to see more populated servers and more players. Unfortunately that will mean that hardcore players will have to tolerate "filthy casuals" playing this game as well. I've seen enough crying liquid natriumchloride about OP mosins and such from "hardcore" git gud -crowd on various forums and gaming communities to know they aren't satisfied unless you cater to them and only them in way they get to be the only top dogs in Norvinsk. Hardcore guys just want to feel special.

Edited by Yeavo
Post scriptum thoughts

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v3n0mou5
58 minutes ago, svelve said:

Lemme get this straight.

Containers = stuff You put in them PRIOR to raid? Cant put loot You GAIN from the raid in them? I see no problem with that. Thats not catering to anyone. There is still a safe holding for some keys, ammo?, meds? or w/e.

So i go ingame with my gamma filled with an ammo box with mags, my vest i full, but one slot for the reload.

I empty my mags, get some kills.

 

I take full mags out of my gamma, but cannot put the empty ones back. so whats the whole point of bringing them/ the gamma? i will still have to drop mags, and other loot because i have no space left.

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Yeavo
19 minutes ago, v3n0mou5 said:

I take full mags out of my gamma, but cannot put the empty ones back. so whats the whole point of bringing them/ the gamma? i will still have to drop mags, and other loot because i have no space left.

I think that's kind of the point. You will have to start thinking tactically about what you take with you when you're going to have to face the fact that you'll lose it if you can't make out with it. I'm getting tired of these terminator T-800 -series thicc boys roaming around with practically limitless ammo. How are you supposed to fight back if you're lower level? Basically the risk reward system is too much in favor of people abusing system to gain edge over players who haven't progressed to their level. I really want to but can't recommend this game to my friends mid or late wipe in its current state since there is practically no way for them to compete with those who started at the beginning of a wipe and who already know every items spawn and worth. Without out new blood this game gets diminishing player counts and turns only into "hardcore" virtual benis comparison competition until there is only streamers left and when they finally get tired of roaming around with nothing but AI bots to kill even they will desert this game thus killing BSG's dream with 'em.

Progression, guests, unrealistically protective headgear/armor, locking AP ammo behind ridiculous grind, far and wide guest/valuable item spawns all is currently designed to keep niche base of players who already love this game happy instead of trying to introduce and ease more people into Tarkov. BSG needs more players to keep their game alive. Even the most fanatic fans will have to stop grinding sometimes to live and work in the real world and someone else needs to take their place. By punishing new players too much you make it harder to find new players to invest in this game and thus you'll end up hurting your game more overall.

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RipCurl

I get the point of people complaining about the grab and run mentality of hatchlings. After new wipes I used to do this as well to make fast cash. For example, with the right keys and a decent spawn point a hatchling can clear at least 2 or 3 important shoreline rooms before a geared player can reach the building. Simply because the hatchling has much less stamina drain due to less weight.

The advantage of the hatchling is the fact that he has nothing to lose. He just needs to be fast, grab every valuable item and put it in his magical secure container. Even with the implementation of post raid healing it will probably still be a viable method. On an average 10 minute shoreline hatchling run I was able to make at least 100-200k rouble just with items that I stored in the container (and even 300k and more if I got out with a scav vest and sling bag full of items). It's just too fast and easy to loot and store items in the container.

My suggestion would be, in order to store raid items in the secure container a player needs to execute an (abortable) motion sequence similar to a reload animation that takes around 10 seconds to store the item in the secure container. This prevents players to clear high value rooms or places within seconds (at least if they want to have the items in the safe container). Players can still store items in the container but they actually need to think about which item to save first or wheter it is safe or not to store an item in a certain situation (leaving yourself vulnerable to attacks). 

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Yeavo
3 minutes ago, RipCurl said:

After new wipes I used to do this as well to make fast cash. For example, with the right keys and a decent spawn point a hatchling can clear at least 2 or 3 important shoreline rooms before a geared player can reach the building.

You're not alone. Almost all "hardcore" players do this to get the funds to gear up so that after a week or two they can start complaining about other people doing it. To make a harsh comparison to cheating its like a ESP-aimbotter complaining about others having access to same hacks. I already use my gamma container like BSG has proposed, didn't abuse container within container ability and just heard about glitching SC after Nikita made the announcement about this. Yet I still am skeptical about this being a solution on its own. It just makes things worse for new/low level/low skill players and caters to hardcore system/glitch abusing power fantasy of those who are already at the top. There must be a balance between rage-quit-inducing -frustration and way-too-easy gameplay.

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EasyCooler

I fully support this implementation. And I am on like 30% survival rate and poo k/d against players.

- It will make it worthwhile chasing axe runners

- It will require you to clear extraction areas, so no more "oh I am safe" feeling in extract proximity, since encounters with extract campers will be more frequent

- You still have your keys, ammo, meds or w/e you carry in your safe box

- I don't get axe runs, you are supposed to be a mercenary highly trained, why would you run without any gear into a game anyway?

- People will end runs faster, because after we will find I don't know a couple of bitcoins you will be motivated to leave and secure the valuable item, in that regard it makes it safer for other players.

I mostly see positives for this.

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Phoenixsui
vor 17 Minuten schrieb EasyCooler:

I fully support this implementation. And I am on like 30% survival rate and poo k/d against players.

- It will make it worthwhile chasing axe runners

- It will require you to clear extraction areas, so no more "oh I am safe" feeling in extract proximity, since encounters with extract campers will be more frequent

- You still have your keys, ammo, meds or w/e you carry in your safe box

- I don't get axe runs, you are supposed to be a mercenary highly trained, why would you run without any gear into a game anyway?

- People will end runs faster, because after we will find I don't know a couple of bitcoins you will be motivated to leave and secure the valuable item, in that regard it makes it safer for other players.

I mostly see positives for this.

Nice said. I need more upvotes per day ;)

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Fuhrerkubel
vor 36 Minuten schrieb EasyCooler:

I fully support this implementation. And I am on like 30% survival rate and poo k/d against players.

- It will make it worthwhile chasing axe runners

- It will require you to clear extraction areas, so no more "oh I am safe" feeling in extract proximity, since encounters with extract campers will be more frequent

- You still have your keys, ammo, meds or w/e you carry in your safe box

- I don't get axe runs, you are supposed to be a mercenary highly trained, why would you run without any gear into a game anyway?

- People will end runs faster, because after we will find I don't know a couple of bitcoins you will be motivated to leave and secure the valuable item, in that regard it makes it safer for other players.

I mostly see positives for this.

Same here. Well said. Realism isn't about fairness. But I would support getting of rid of safe containers completely. Yes, I am EOD owner. It's one of the small things that break immersion. If you die because you think you're playing CoD, you should lose everything you have on you.

 

Edited by Fuhrerkubel

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HappyCamper
29 minutes ago, EasyCooler said:

I fully support this implementation.

I second that thought! Not much to add here, except that most people are able to adapt to changes pretty quickly, these people won't have a big problem with this minor change. Only the people stuck in the past will have a hard time changing.

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Hamm
9 minutes ago, Fuhrerkubel said:

Same here. Well said. Realism isn't about fairness. But I would support getting of rid of safe containers completely. Yes, I am EOD owner. It's one of the small things that break immersion. If you die because you think you're playing CoD, you should lose everything you have on you.

 

lmao, no. Some people dont find sitting in a bush, in the corner of the map, or sitting in a building with the door closed ADS waiting for someone to open the door fun, we like to go out and PVP, has nothing to do with cod, its about having fun.

Edited by Hamm

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PardTheTroll
vor 26 Minuten schrieb Hamm:

Some people dont find sitting in a bush, in the corner of the map, or sitting in a building with the door closed ADS waiting for someone to open the door fun

Because every time to you find someone like that he has been sitting there for the last 30 min. Get real buddy. 

Who are you to decide what is fun for somebody anyway?

Edited by PardTheTroll

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Fuhrerkubel
vor 4 Stunden schrieb Hamm:

lmao, no. Some people dont find sitting in a bush, in the corner of the map, or sitting in a building with the door closed ADS waiting for someone to open the door fun, we like to go out and PVP, has nothing to do with cod, its about having fun.

Im just making things clear, in case you understood me wrong. I didnt talk about "sitting" in a bush or "sitting" in a room to wait for someone to open the door. I am talking about concealed movement, understanding/usage of terrain, understanding own advantages or disadvantages in certain situations and act accordingly. I am talking about thinking ahead while playing. If someone likes to run for gunshots in the open to find "pvp" then they can play like that. no problem. People have fun in many different ways and who am I to judge that.
My Opinion: Get rid of safe containers.

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Yeavo

I have had sometime today to think about this matter and have started to come to the point of view there is 3 practical solution to this issue none of which are my own ideas but here they are anyway:

  1. Remove secure cointainers altogether. No more safe loot/gear for anyone. Even the unluckiest low skilled player will hit jackpot once in a while. Also this ensures people intending to raid a certain place for certain item will only bring with them the key needed to access that place and nothing more or else risk loosing all his keys. This also eliminates the magbox 1k+ rounds spamming and force high tier players to think tactically aswell.
  2. Replace the container with specific unlootable keybar and wallet slots for keys and keycards. Only one of a certain item can be in bar/wallet at a time. If you find another you have to have it in your back, vest or pockets. Also no more magboxes with 1000+ rounds loaded into mags ready to take on a batalion sized force.
  3. Do nothing about the containers and just add/move scavs into problem locations so that hatchets have to fight for their high value loot.

Personally I'm in favor of any of these options.

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Spectator6

@Jackthelycan Is it possible that exit-only secure containers actually make loot *MORE* accessible in some ways?

For example, as it stands now, unless a geared player is somehow able to beat a running hatchling to the high tier loot spots, the high value loot will be removed from the map. And even if the geared player is able to take down the hatchling, well guess what? Because he socked it all away in his SC, the loot is still gone forever.

With this change to make SC's exit-only, is it possible that more loot left "on the field" for pickup means that more players will have the ability to actually get the loot off of the map?

Just some food for thought :)

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jlambvo

 

7 hours ago, Yeavo said:

How are you supposed to fight back if you're lower level? Basically the risk reward system is too much in favor of people abusing system to gain edge over players who haven't progressed to their level...Progression, guests, unrealistically protective headgear/armor, locking AP ammo behind ridiculous grind, far and wide guest/valuable item spawns all is currently designed to keep niche base of players who already love this game happy instead of trying to introduce and ease more people into Tarkov....

I... maybe have just gotten lucky (?) but I've just not encountered this having just started up a couple months ago. I've bought higher end ammo on the flea market, tend to stick to a few more newbie friendly areas and made a slow progression. I carefully pick my fights and risks I take when I can and focus on self preservation. I guess I like the sense that there are players out there I might encounter who completely outclass me. I've gotten the drop on a couple well-geared players and enjoyed their level 4-5 armor for a couple raids before dying again. It doesn't seem that broken to me? 

Also, although I've played realism-ish shooters for a long while, I'm pretty terrible. The only thing that really irks me are aspects of the skill system--absolutely stupid run speed, jump height, and recoil negation seem to be the real problems, not the gear and economy. 

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Niahkl

grafik.png.39d5a3068c59fc0a346895650e6b23e2.png

 

Poll speaks for itself on this.

grafik.png

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ataros

Quest progression is not supposed to be as fast as it is now. Streamers get to lvl 40 in 24-40 hours. Protecting quest items found in raid must give at least some challenge. Now it is just easy mode.

With container restrictions the game will be fun again without hundreds millions Roubles in stash farmed hatchet-running to the sanatorium on Shoreline. 

My Gamma will be still worth to take keys and extra meds and expensive ammo into raids.

When you play for 3+ months and have some experience money is not an issue anymore but lack of fun is the issue. It will be a lot of fun to hunt players and loot expensive keycards from pistol-runners and geared players.

3-4 more exits must be added to each map though to stop exit-camping.

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JarlAsmundr
7 hours ago, Hamm said:

lmao, no. Some people dont find sitting in a bush, in the corner of the map, or sitting in a building with the door closed ADS waiting for someone to open the door fun, we like to go out and PVP, has nothing to do with cod, its about having fun.

Well nothing is stopping you there, just expect harsher consequences at a faster rate. Especially now with the gamma mechanic being removed. Im 50-50 on the change as a whole, but your retort here doesn't target the gamma case at all and its current issue. That's just all about playstyle. In the end if the choice is finalized there's nothing to do but adapt. This is not our game we spent blood and sweat for, we simply play it.

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Yeavo
10 minutes ago, ataros said:

Quest progression is not supposed to be as fast as it is now. Streamers get to lvl 40 in 24-40 hours. Protecting quest items found in raid must give at least some challenge. Now it is just easy mode.

Have you considered that maybe the problem isn't that the quest progression is too easy but rather some influential people are becoming too efficient in grinding their way to the top in mere days and then getting bored? The fact that in order to compete with these highly proficient players you have to take short cuts and that is the real problem behind hatchling farmers. Also locking progression behind PMC kill quests will cause more hatchet runners farming valuable loot to fund their gear because its a constant arms race. They are abusing the system to take advantage in a competition that has its rules written by people who are have already reached the goal. Like racing a motor cycle with a kids tricycle they've given you only that you need to win before they even allow you to have big boy bicycle.

Getting rid of SC is fine but then it needs to be gone altogether. No more more prison wallet to stuff items in but also no more magicically pulling drummags out of your magic backside to fight in labs. And yeah I know SC isn't really prison wallet but it might as well be even if its read-only.

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ManiacShogun

I welcome this change. I like that the risk/reward is now spread among all players having an equal chance at the beginning of every raid to the best loot in raid. with that being said I am curious as to the finer details of how this will work. I don't understand those who are complaining about quest items. there are a few quests where this mechanic is already implemented (Golden Pocket watch, Planting the SVD on shoreline, postman pat, etc). Where if you die you lose the item. I like the fact that I can go to all POI and have the same chance to ether fight someone for the loot or find it myself and have to defend it with my life. instead of now hatcheters running to the loot spots gamma stuffing high value items and disconnecting from raid. where its all RNG with spawn and spawn chance. For the exit camping complaint I don't get either. it happens now and has been happening since I have started playing. again knowing the maps, and the extractions you can hunt them down or counter them easily, Factory is a prime example of this but is avoidable or you can counter the exit camper and kill them. I think this is an over reaction from the vocal angry few who also freaked out about the med changes and the ammo reload changes, and my opinion is those changes made the game better in many ways. lets all just wait for the event play as much as possible. I personally might account wipe to try this at a low level and progress through some quests to see how it effects my play as a lvl 1 PMC. 

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QuinnAllard

So all I am going to do, is get with my buddy, gear up, and camp the exits. If I know there's a 100% chance everything you looted I can take because you cannot put in your secure container, then that's the path of least resistance. It's a no brainer really.  ORRR Just make it so you cant put weapons, other containers, or armor/chest rigs in the containers. The real problem here seems to be the elitist cry babies that cry foul when a hatchling gets lucky and kills them because they were careless, or takes extreme risks and runs to gather as much loot before they inevitably die. Which, btw, is the whole point of the game. So changing the containers to not allow you to put ANYTHING in them in raid, makes my decision to camp exits that much clearer. See you in game boys. 

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QuinnAllard

Also, lets not allow Ammo or any weapons parts, to include suppressors and optics, to be stored in SC. That'll make the babies cry for real. 

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Hamm
8 hours ago, PardTheTroll said:

Because every time to you find someone like that he has been sitting there for the last 30 min. Get real buddy. 

Who are you to decide what is fun for somebody anyway?

where did i say that?

i said some people dont find it fun, i didnt say everyone. if youre going to argue, please come correct

2 hours ago, Niahkl said:

grafik.png.39d5a3068c59fc0a346895650e6b23e2.png

 

Poll speaks for itself on this.

grafik.png

where is this poll? 

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Niahkl
vor 29 Minuten schrieb Hamm:

where did i say that?

i said some people dont find it fun, i didnt say everyone. if youre going to argue, please come correct

where is this poll? 

 

 

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