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Audie_Murphy

Solution to SC and Hatchling Exploits

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Audie_Murphy

I wrote an idea on the Reddit forum but it was automatically removed because I wasn't supposed to post about the SC changes. However, I have a sincerely thoughtful suggestion that I would humbly ask that they are able to read. If it's terrible, that's fine, but because I care about this game so much, I want to at least put this idea in front of developers.

Essentially, I ask that the new proposed changes to the Secured Container be implemented, but also to add a change which might appear very drastic on its face. How about when you choose to play as a PMC, if you have no equipment (or if you click an option when joining queue) that will make you spawn in raid with random trash gear (low tier scav, such as a scav vest, MR-133, etc.). This solves the problems Nikita described about hatchlings getting all of the good loot without risk (by putting into their SC), but makes it so the majority of the player-base can engage in PVP and play as intended without an insane level of difficulty. 

Now, the most glaring criticism of my idea would probably be that; (1) you get 'free' gear, (2) you remove the incentive to buy low tier gear yourself.

(1) It's not really free, no more than using a Scav is free, because you still have to survive to get out. Additionally, there could be a cooldown on this as well...or even, (don't hate me) could replace player scav altogether. 

(2) If you give really low tier gear to the PMC spawn, it doesn't remove anything from buying good gear because your only getting low cost gear that you still don't actually 'get' unless you survive. I admit that my idea creates a problem with making it so there's no real point in buying other trash gear if you can get it for free by just playing as a PMC. I don't know how to fix this yet, but maybe someone else can offer a good suggestion. 

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EclipseFX

In my honest opinion, the SC problem does not have a "good" solution now that the players have got used to it. I'm sertain that Nikita will find a solution through a bit of brainstorming, and most certainly this solution will not satisfy everybody, since so many rely on the current SC mechanics (even whilst running proper, geared raids).

This would mostly not work, since it gives even less incentive to grab gear into raids, since you get it for free, and the hatchlings will just become armed. This will also make the point of scav raids utterly absolete, since the point of it is that you can't get the items from your SC into the raid (keys, ammo, etc.)

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Audie_Murphy

Hmm. Thank you for the thoughtful response. I absolutely agree with your criticism of my idea. It's the really huge flaw in my idea, and I'm not sure how to resolve that. I guess what I'm trying to do is make it so that you don't have to be amazing at the game in order to ever bring weapons in the raid. I'm not horrible myself, but it took me around 500-1000 hours to get even remotely decent. I'm not thinking about myself in these ideas, but rather the game and its community as a whole. If we create a situation where in order to even have a gun (earn money) in this game you have to be extremely good, or run with a large squad, then we will ultimately lose a lot of players. 

Maybe Nikita's solution (for the event using the SC) is a good idea, but, in my opinion, only if it is combined with another solution to counter the unintended consequences that will ensue. 

Actually, I just thought of a great idea! What if more weapons are spawned at random on the maps. Not good ones, but extremely low tier ones. This could make it so that if you don't have money, you can at least try to run and get a weapon in raid. Maybe make it so these randomly 'placed' weapons always have a full magazine, so you can at least have a chance to shoot someone. And, to be clear, I'm not saying to spawn additional, lootable containers, but rather make about 20-30 new potential spawn points for a weapon, which is loosely placed leaning against something or on a table. Have it so that there's let's say at least 5-10 of them in raid. I don't see this as an issue, because it's still risky to go in as a hatchling, thus you still have an incentive to buy your own weapon beforehand--but it allows people to play the game in a meaningful way despite being out of money and struggling to earn. What are your thoughts on this idea?

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EclipseFX

Well, your weapon spawn idea is quite interesting, and could work for the hatchlings who run in to raids balls naked due to not having enough experience/money to be confident to grab a gear. My problem with this idea is the longevity of it. Since Nikita told already that he is going to make the economy much more hardcore. Loot will be more scarce, and traders will have lower tier/less abundant gear to sell. 

In my opinion though, Veritas's video (Open World Hardcore Challenge) gives the best reasoning; it's not about the system, but the players. It's incredibly easy to get gear just by running through factory on a scav. Takes a maximum of 1.5 min's if you're being INCREDIBLY careful (depending on spawn can take less than 15 secs to run to an extraction) and you've got yourself a nice starting kit!

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superbenke

As said many times, most hatchlings are not poor or low level players afraid to lose gear.
They are farming item spawns or high level hoarders :)

It's also amusing how some who preach that the game should be more realistic suddenly refuse to accept change when it comes to their precious secure container.

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p4nnus
3 minutes ago, superbenke said:

As said many times, most hatchlings are not poor or low level players afraid to lose gear.
They are farming item spawns or high level hoarders :)

It's also amusing how some who preach that the game should be more realistic suddenly refuse to accept change when it comes to their precious secure container.

Right on.

SC's should be removed entirely or changed so that you can only use and take items from inside, not add anything, when in raid. This would take the game closer to the vision Nikita has described years a go.

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CrackHDown
17 minutes ago, superbenke said:

As said many times, most hatchlings are not poor or low level players afraid to lose gear.
They are farming item spawns or high level hoarders :)

It's also amusing how some who preach that the game should be more realistic suddenly refuse to accept change when it comes to their precious secure container.

Amen. Nothing should be gained without risk. Anyone who relies on the container, and can't even comprehend playing without it, Is has simply wasted money. This is supposed to be the hardcore of the hardcore, when it comes to a survival/war zone experience. Survival of the fittest is at play here, the weak should be downtrodden. This game should be a case of evolve and adapt, or die. Plain and simple. Insurance, SC, Recoil skills, etc. should not exist in Tarkov.

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EclipseFX
On 9/6/2019 at 4:29 PM, CrackHDown said:

Amen. Nothing should be gained without risk. Anyone who relies on the container, and can't even comprehend playing without it, Is has simply wasted money. This is supposed to be the hardcore of the hardcore, when it comes to a survival/war zone experience. Survival of the fittest is at play here, the weak should be downtrodden. This game should be a case of evolve and adapt, or die. Plain and simple. Insurance, SC, Recoil skills, etc. should not exist in Tarkov.

So in your opinion, the more you practice shooting a weapon does not increase your ability to control it's recoil? How about we just make it so you can only play the game once, and if you die your stash gets wiped, since that would be realism!

And just as a sidenote, I've never preached about the realism of the Tarkov, or been afraid of losing my "precious" SC.

Edited by EclipseFX
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CrackHDown
11 hours ago, EclipseFX said:

So in your opinion, the more you practice shooting a weapon does not increase your ability to control it's recoil? How about we just make it so you can only play the game once, and if you die your stash gets wiped, since that would be realism!

And just as a sidenote, I've never preached about the realism of the Tarkov, or been afraid of losing my "precious" SC.

I feel as if when you shoot the weapon, you as a person should be learning how to control the recoil. Not the game for you. There are future plans in motion to punish dying, so you don't need to be so dramatic about that point.

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Nameless_Terror

OP. To fix the perceived problem with the secured containers, it needs to only hold what you brought into the match and not let you put anything back in it after taking it out. Players risking something feel cheated that someone risking very little can protect it all. 

As for giving hatch lings weapons.... It's not necessary. Buy cheap gear, use insurance, run scavs and even a modest player can turn an "good" profit. Hatch-lings stem from a problem that they can run quickly to a particular spawn or two and guarantee they keep what they find. Even eliminating this, you are still going to see hatch-lings until death is punished in some way. No matter what you'll see see the occasional one because that is just how people are. 

On 9/9/2019 at 7:37 PM, CrackHDown said:

I feel as if when you shoot the weapon, you as a person should be learning how to control the recoil. Not the game for you. 

So you expect us to use my mouse to fight the weapon's recoil as if I'm a 10 year old school girl experiencing recoil for the first time, every time? Such skills are subconscious that you don't even consciously use them. Your body will automatically do it. I find any game where so called professional soldiers are spraying the clouds after a few shots hilariously sad. Either keep the skill or tame the recoil to be much more representative of how it would be for a professional soldier. 

 
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CrackHDown
12 hours ago, Nameless_Terror said:

OP. To fix the perceived problem with the secured containers, it needs to only hold what you brought into the match and not let you put anything back in it after taking it out. Players risking something feel cheated that someone risking very little can protect it all. 

As for giving hatch lings weapons.... It's not necessary. Buy cheap gear, use insurance, run scavs and even a modest player can turn an "good" profit. Hatch-lings stem from a problem that they can run quickly to a particular spawn or two and guarantee they keep what they find. Even eliminating this, you are still going to see hatch-lings until death is punished in some way. No matter what you'll see see the occasional one because that is just how people are. 

So you expect us to use my mouse to fight the weapon's recoil as if I'm a 10 year old school girl experiencing recoil for the first time, every time? Such skills are subconscious that you don't even consciously use them. Your body will automatically do it. I find any game where so called professional soldiers are spraying the clouds after a few shots hilariously sad. Either keep the skill or tame the recoil to be much more representative of how it would be for a professional soldier. 

 

I expect you to play the game, not the game play for you.

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onlego

There is two distinct problems,

First problem: secure container, players can just spawn naked and run onto the loot area and stuff things up their ass and this is wrong as then the loot is secured whatever happened (death) which is going agains the whole purpose of the game

Second problem: absolutely stupid scavs that are suiciding themselves against PMC even though 15 of their fellow scavs died 20 seconds before them.

These two problems make it very easy for hatchlings to 1) get look up their ass and save it & 2) kill a stupid scav with macarov and eventually kill geared players by looting a hunter or whatever other weapon that can 1 / 2 / 3 tap any decent geared player (which is fine by the way).

Make it harder for players to survive in tarkov, make the scavs more clever and more dangerous (please dont make them headshot from 50 meter with toz), more scav or improve the AI, make them throw nades and things that makes it hard for players to just camp a room waiting for inlined scav to die like stupids.

For now there is nothing realistic in this (sprinting like crazy with full gear on you), scavs not a threat at all, no penalty for killing fellow PMC' and scavs.

And people stop complaining about game being to hard and impossibility to get loot, this is such a lie. You literally just have to go into a raid as a scav and extract straight with your gear or kill one scav (that are so stupid that it is funny) and you can extract with the gear and then go-again in a raid and EVENTUALLY get better gear.

Lot of things in the game are working against its own economy for now and this only way to break that vicious circle is to implement mechanics that are going in the direction of what the game want to be.

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