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hazric

please allow Magbox in Gamma

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hazric

Or make the Magbox 3x3 so it fills the entire Gamma.

 

Magbox in Gamma is a good tradeoff between sacrificing your secure for a more aggressive high risk high reward type of play style. Why take away a perfectly good meta?

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N1shazu

Simply because it’s totally unrealistic to run around with an heavy mag box inside your secure container? 

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hazric

Well there's plenty a lack of tactical realism already; it's after all a video game. 

 

Experience and recoil control can persist... there's also no simulated recoil, just to name a few obvious ones

 

I feel like this is one of those rather harmless gameplay modifiers the devs can actually allow. If they want, they can even make it a limited on-use ability that will require earning/purchasing again, or make it an unlockable ability. It's just a meta that's very healthy from a design perspective because the risk tradeoffs are fair, and people do enjoy playing this way if they're confident enough to extract with most of their loot outside their Gamma

 

The only legitimate "drawback" I can see would be lowering the price of ammo and magazines on the blackmarket since a group of people in the entire economy would be buying less if their mags and ammo are persistently surviving through extraction. Considering how expensive good ammo is already, this may not be a bad thing depending on the devs vision

 

But at the end of the day, whatever the effect is on the economy, I still believe the benefit of having this meta is a great modification of the risk-reward loop that many games employ. It's just plain fun, and I don't want to see the game so limited if it were to be without it.

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Maki_Nishikino
Posted (edited)

@hazric But EFT is going to get harder, not easier. Labs for example is going to be very hard. If I recall it will only have two entrances and exits in the streets and you have to get out of the labs and extract from the streets to keep your stuff. Persistent health will be a thing. Loot is going to be dramatically less. The economy will be much more player based. Many, many things will change. Really what you play right now is nothing much more than a sandbox. Also, are you aware of the experiment with containers that will take place during the pre-wipe event?

Edited by Maki_Nishikino
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HijackDallas

If I recall it right, there  3 Raids each Labs-Raid:  1st into Streets of Tarkov, than Labs and in the end again Streets of Tarkov. with no pause.

If youre legs  are blacked out, than you go into Labs with blackes out legs. If they implement Streets in 0.14, than they close Labs in 0.14.5m so there is only the entreance in Streets.

Do want looting in Streets and go after this in Labs for some PvP? Well, you go into Labs full of loot, because you can´t go back to your Hideout.

 

That means, less PvP in Labs.

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hazric

My request doesn't affect difficulty, it's allowing for a different style of playing the game. 

It can even be argued this style of play is more difficult should you choose it, because you can't put anything but mags in your Magbox, and you'd have to actually get kills to put it to use. Just like it is now, most people won't choose this option, but I'd still like for it to be there for those of us want the additional challenge.

When the game becomes more difficult, playing this way will only make it more difficult, but it would be the choice of the player. I'd like the devs to keep that choice there.

So I'm not seeing where your counterpoint is

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Maki_Nishikino

You know about the pre-wipe event involving secure containers?

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Omoz

Looking at the dev's motives for the game, I don't think they like the idea of players carrying like 1 mag in their rig and like 10 mags inside their magazine case inside their secure container. This pretty much the meta right now. I do it and I see streamers do it all the time.

Realism aside, I don't think its good from a game play perspective. You shouldn't be able to bring dozens of 60 round mags and only risk losing 2 of them (one in the gun and 1 in the rig). I believe you shouldn't be able to put large capacity containers like the magazine case inside the secure container. Its going the opposite way Tarkov is meant to head.

The mag case has 36 slots, that's a max of 18 '60 round mags' which is over 1000 rounds of ready to go ammo. If people want to bring that much into a raid, they should have to risk losing it.

 

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HijackDallas

@hazric why don´t you play some shooter with magical mags like CoD or CS:GO.

Magical mags are nothing else than exploiting the Secure Container and some people, like I am, thinking, this is just like cheating in a world of hardcore realism.

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AFT

Devs remove the ability to put magbox into gamma? When?

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HijackDallas
vor 8 Minuten schrieb AFT:

Devs remove the ability to put magbox into gamma? When?

not now, but maybe in the future.

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hazric
Posted (edited)

@HijackDallas it feels like arguing for realism in this game always dangles a Most Confused Award around a person's neck. You have no idea what "realism in a video game" even means. Care to explain how a secure container is realistic at all?

I stand by my suggestion because players can always choose to opt out of it. And going head-to-head against someone who's playing this way, doesn't put either player at an advantage or disadvantage while engaged in a live firefight. You're not even going to know if you're playing against someone with a Magbox in his secure. You used your secure for defensive supplies, they used their secure for offensive purposes.

You use completely theoretical and baseless examples arguing players aren't risking enough on the field, but in all practicality, this doesn't even affect you, it's entirely someone elses business and choice. You want to offer some concrete and logical examples how someone loading Magboxes into a secure, actually disadvantages you when you're up against them? Are they going to be that much more well off money-wise than you? Are you trying to corner a market in the bazaar? If they are so much wealthier, they're probably much more skilled than you anyways

Does knowing players like Worrun and GhostDog are roaming around, with 100 mill in their bank and a Magbox in their secure, really take away from your enjoyment of the game and keep you from playing? I seriously doubt it 

I know what the Tarkov devs have said. I just want to hear some legitimate arguments from people who actually understand this game, and game design in general

Edited by hazric

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HijackDallas

This is a game, yeah. So the Secure Container is something unrealistic. But because this is a game, some things can be unrealistic.

But a MagCase is other matter. Can you put any Magcases in a Kappa? no

The only things I secure are my own keys, meds, money and ammo. So I don´t need the luxury to secure things In-Raid. Thats why I agree to the plans for the restiction of the Secure Container, because that is, what Nikita want. 

An hyper realistic hardcore shooter with rpg-elements.

 

do you see any rl soldier who bunnyjumping on an live battlefield with life ammonition, who can kill you for real?

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kiethygeorge

There is no way this will happen in the future, it basically completely negates the mag drills skill and devalues the best ammunition types.

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Madiakz

Plain and simple, only use what you can afford to lose 😎 

Secure container should be for keys, task items and money, maybe some extra ammo, but not a stack of mags. 

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Leitbild

I am disgusted whenever I see streamer doing the magbox meta. Im pretty sure thats one of those cases, where the devs thought "hm, a mag box would help to save the players stash size." And some random streamer tryhard goes like "this fits perfectly into my gamma!".

 

I hate to see this. I dont use it. Secure Container should only be for  the really rare things, like your Keybar,docscase/wallet,dogtagthing and maybe some last resort medics. Everything else shouldnt be there. Thats my oppinion on this subject.

 

Also, youre complaining about how expensive ammo is. Care to share how many millions of rubel you got in your stash? People tend to hold 10mil+ and still exploit stuff like this.

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N1shazu
4 hours ago, hazric said:

You want to offer some concrete and logical examples how someone loading Magboxes into a secure, actually disadvantages you when you're up against them?

Let’s say a player brings up to 3-4 full mag in their rig per raid on average, a player who has a mag box in his secure container brings up to 18 additional mags on top of that ready to use and easy to swap back and forth to your rig, which means that he’s not required to mag drill in the middle of the raid anymore. It’s simple maths. How can you think this is not an huge advantage for you?

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ShiroTenshi

While the secure container is, in itself, a magical box that goes against the realism aim of the game, it was done intentionally. The argument that 'one thing is unrealistic, ergo everything else can't be realistic' is a flawed argument. There are levels of realism and it doesn't have to be '100% realistic or bust'. Things will take on a more realistic way of working where possible (Since that is the goal) while some others might need to be changed to be unrealistic.

When the secure containers were initially planned, their purpose was to make death less punishing by giving you a way to save some items even in death. What the DEVs didn't foresee was the ingenuity of the players in abusing this system in ways that while allowed by the mechanics, are seen as borderline exploits. This is why the DEVs are actively thinking of making changes to the secure containers. 

Honestly I see no problem in not allowing most containers in the secure containers anyway. Personally i would lock it so that only docs cases, wallets and keybars can be placed inside.

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Starioshka

@hazric I might not agree with your point, but I like the persistence, comprehensive and well argumented points.

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KugelFanger
Posted (edited)

Argueing the realism factor in this game is always so stupid. Yes this is a game and yes there will be things that are not quite realistic (because you know some things are just not fun). If someone wants to argue the everything or nothing realism standpoint i alwayse feel l they are forgetting respawning/healing because uninstalling a game after one death is... you know NOT FUN.

The magbox in gamma container however is just a exploit in my vision, and needs to be adressed. We have skills like magdrill and reload skill in the game, the magbox negates all of that...

My point of realism is always very simple: if it adds to the game or a fun additions (or hell if it even makes sense) then yes i am totally for it. If not (broken legs and needing a wheelchair for example) then leave it out because it does not add anything to the game. The magbox in gamma also detracts from the gameplay, in firstly you can bring MUCH more highpowered ammo than someone that does not bring a magbox (so yea advantage), secondly you are weighing yourself down more...so you are strenghtraining more than some-one who does not (so yea advantage). I can go on, but i hope you get the point. Also the "not knowing" aspect is just flat out dumb.. if i go up against a cheater, i don't always know. But sure as hell makes that unfair.

 

In my opinions, nine spots in the gamma means only NINE spots in the gamma. If you want to bring 1000+ rounds into a raid, you sure as hell need to lose it when you die.

Edited by KugelFanger
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hazric

I can see it growing in balance advantage when a Magbox-secured player starts making consecutive kills. While non-Magboxing players have to increasingly magdrill following winning encounters, the Magboxer can remain aggressive for much longer, and no meds in the game can keep up with that sustained damage output. 

Of course you can balance meds to compensate, but that'll certainly make the game more run-n-gun than hide-and-seek. 

 

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Audie_Murphy
On 10/5/2019 at 12:33 AM, hazric said:

Or make the Magbox 3x3 so it fills the entire Gamma.

 

Magbox in Gamma is a good tradeoff between sacrificing your secure for a more aggressive high risk high reward type of play style. Why take away a perfectly good meta?

actually, once you have expensive magazines and ammunition, it's not much of a tradeoff. if you have 600 rounds of M995 all inside of 60 round mags, you'd have a boatload of money secured in your gamma. I haven't played since June, so I don't even recall how much they are, but I can't imagine M995 is less than $3 or $4 per round. that's about $2400 in ammo, plus another 10 x 30,000 roubles in magazine cost. 500,000 in roubles secured in your gamma is pretty good and outside of the so called 'realism' scope I see everyone wanting. 

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TheHappyMile
Am 5.10.2019 um 06:33 schrieb hazric:

Or make the Magbox 3x3 so it fills the entire Gamma.

yeah, great idea. finaly making tarkov pay2win xD

 

The Mag-case-gamma meta is simply redicolus.

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rbreece

Lol dude this is 100% getting removed, no containers are gonna be allowed inside the gamme, its actual bullshit and gives EOD players a HUGE advantage while also making the game unfair for players who get those lucky kills on heavily geared players loot cycling a magbox. 

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ParsonsWV
On 10/6/2019 at 6:39 AM, N1shazu said:

Let’s say a player brings up to 3-4 full mag in their rig per raid on average, a player who has a mag box in his secure container brings up to 18 additional mags on top of that ready to use and easy to swap back and forth to your rig, which means that he’s not required to mag drill in the middle of the raid anymore. It’s simple maths. How can you think this is not an huge advantage for you?

Late reply I know but do you really think most people carry 18 mags into raid in their mag box? No. They use it to carry mags they find on dead scavs and raiders out. Which in turn they sell on the Flea Market. Which with more supply lowers the price. 

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