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Galiper

7.62 Weapons

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Galiper

At this point most games are unplayable. There is no reason why someone should be able to take more than 7 shots to torso from an AK and still be left standing. Mean while a grenade that is 20 feet away from you will end you at full stats. A mosin should not take 4 body shots to kill someone. A Grach should not be able to put 13 shots into someones chest for them to still be left alive. I don't know what happened since I originally purchased this game but something isn't right. It is no longer realistic. Or even the 12 gauge shotguns. Why is it possible to withstand 3 shells at less than a 3 meter distance and still be alive. 

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Sa_PT

Happen to me in Shoreline today. Landed 7 shots with a 7.62 AK and got wrecked... 

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Insolentfool

Keep in mind a few things, 

1. you may not have landed as many shots as you believe. I strongly encourage you to use some form of video recording while playing so you can watch back your deaths and use them to learn. 

2. you may have shot someone wearing multiple layers of high class armour. His armour would have been destroyed by that point and he would have been in dire health.

3. you might have spread the shots around to multiple parts of the body. Look up how the damage system works in the game. if you reduce someones head or thorax to 0 they die instantly, where as landing shots on stomach arms and legs only reduce their HP. 

If your target was naked only wearing clothes you're right, but armour is specifically designed to stop bullets of a certain calibre. 

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Dullemarc

I die plenty to one or two bullets in zhuk. If one or two mosin shoots would be a sure kill every single time we would have double the amount of i will lay here for 45mins camping no matter what players. I like gunfights more then getting one tapped by mosin camper.

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Vodor

When I use mosins with the SNB ammo it always take a good few shots to kill scavs.

The other stuff though, drops them like flies.

Thus, the predicament of what I take when players are out there fully armed to the teeth.

Joys of Tarkov 🙂

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Galiper
11 hours ago, Insolentfool said:

Keep in mind a few things, 

1. you may not have landed as many shots as you believe. I strongly encourage you to use some form of video recording while playing so you can watch back your deaths and use them to learn. 

2. you may have shot someone wearing multiple layers of high class armour. His armour would have been destroyed by that point and he would have been in dire health.

3. you might have spread the shots around to multiple parts of the body. Look up how the damage system works in the game. if you reduce someones head or thorax to 0 they die instantly, where as landing shots on stomach arms and legs only reduce their HP. 

If your target was naked only wearing clothes you're right, but armour is specifically designed to stop bullets of a certain calibre. 

 

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PuddleMurda
14 hours ago, Insolentfool said:

Keep in mind a few things, 

1. you may not have landed as many shots as you believe. I strongly encourage you to use some form of video recording while playing so you can watch back your deaths and use them to learn. 

2. you may have shot someone wearing multiple layers of high class armour. His armour would have been destroyed by that point and he would have been in dire health.

3. you might have spread the shots around to multiple parts of the body. Look up how the damage system works in the game. if you reduce someones head or thorax to 0 they die instantly, where as landing shots on stomach arms and legs only reduce their HP. 

If your target was naked only wearing clothes you're right, but armour is specifically designed to stop bullets of a certain calibre. 

I can not stress this enough...

When players in sheer frustration get on the forum and express what OP just did, they are not looking to be schooled in EFT game mechanics. They have just played a couple of raids in a game they expect to feel somewhat authentic, at least in terms of gunplay, and can not believe what just went down. They put 5-10 rifle rounds on target, or blasted someone point blank with a shotgun a couple of times, but they are the ones who got wrecked by the same guy effectively returning fire as he was getting showered in projectiles. 

We know. Armor. EFT logic. That is the very issue at hand here. Someone who just got hit with three 12g blasts from a few meters away can swing around and return fire effectively. Just wear armor.

Yes, put an AR500 plate on the range and shoot directly at it with standard issue small caliber rifle rounds and they do not penetrate. No one is trying to refute that.

However, dress a guy up in body armor with both chest- and back plate, and throw in those little love handle protection plates as well, put a good helmet on him, and have him run across the range. How many small caliber rifle rounds (5.45 and 5.56), on average, do you think would be needed to put that guy down if you could have him respawn IRL perform the same test a thousand times? 

My guess would be 1-2 hits on target to have him go down. Like literally hit the dirt. Maybe he could get up and struggle his way across the range, but there is no way he'd be able to swing around and accurately fire back at you without you finishing him off. I'd guess 3-4 rounds on target would completely incapacitate him about 98/100 times. 

This is the issue. This is what people are so frustrated about. This is why this is a never ending topic. Armor does not turn you into Master Chief. It might save your life. It might stop a bullet from doing any damage. It might keep you in the fight if you get hit once, and in best case scenario keep you in the fight if you get hit twice.

Armor does not generate an energy force field around you. It lowers the extremely high risk of you being incapacitated by a small amount. The probability that 5-10 rifle caliber rounds on target only hit plates directly, or gets stopped by soft body armor, is virtually zero. If you shoot someone in the shoulder from an angle where the projectile's trajectory continues through the body, the projectile will go through and exit the body leaving a golf ball size exit wound, and probably get stopped by soft body armor on its way out. 

There needs to be hefty penalties for getting hit if there is ever going to be any longevity to this game. If gunplay does not suspend our disbelief people will grow tired of this game fast. 

I am not saying EFT should try to emulate IRL probability entirely. Heavy heavy armor, maybe 3-6 poorly placed rifle rounds to make the target hit the dirt (maybe dead, unconscious, or just fall over with a time set animation where your avatar is struggling to compose himself) would be a reasonable middle ground I could accept. The "half a 30-round mag of 5.45 full metal jacket rounds on target from 5 meters away but you are the one who dies"-norm (yes, I have personally experienced that way too many times) we have now though? Completely unacceptable. 

My $0.02

Edited by PuddleMurda
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Yeavo

@PuddleMurda I have very little to add to your previous post but to give my $0.02 on the issue there is one thing I want to nitpick:

On 10/11/2019 at 10:57 PM, PuddleMurda said:

If gunplay does not suspend our disbelief people will grow tired of this game fast. 

I think gun play on its own the most realistic I've ever come across in a video game. Zero to none! And there is the problem. If gunplay was awful and unrealistic we wouldn't have this issue with unrealistic armor, fantasy helmets and supersoldat action hero movement after getting hit with 120 rounds of FMJ and jumping of a second story balcony. When something is realistic to the extreme then we expect everything else to realistic to that level as well. But currently its not. And that's the immersion breaking disconnect. When you go from the most realistic gun handling/play to unrealistic damage models the immersion breaks like someone taking a sledgehammer to an antique Ming dynasty vase.

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GhostSpartan117
On 10/11/2019 at 3:57 PM, PuddleMurda said:

I can not stress this enough...

When players in sheer frustration get on the forum and express what OP just did, they are not looking to be schooled in EFT game mechanics. They have just played a couple of raids in a game they expect to feel somewhat authentic, at least in terms of gunplay, and can not believe what just went down. They put 5-10 rifle rounds on target, or blasted someone point blank with a shotgun a couple of times, but they are the ones who got wrecked by the same guy effectively returning fire as he was getting showered in projectiles. 

We know. Armor. EFT logic. That is the very issue at hand here. Someone who just got hit with three 12g blasts from a few meters away can swing around and return fire effectively. Just wear armor.

Yes, put an AR500 plate on the range and shoot directly at it with standard issue small caliber rifle rounds and they do not penetrate. No one is trying to refute that.

However, dress a guy up in body armor with both chest- and back plate, and throw in those little love handle protection plates as well, put a good helmet on him, and have him run across the range. How many small caliber rifle rounds (5.45 and 5.56), on average, do you think would be needed to put that guy down if you could have him respawn IRL perform the same test a thousand times? 

My guess would be 1-2 hits on target to have him go down. Like literally hit the dirt. Maybe he could get up and struggle his way across the range, but there is no way he'd be able to swing around and accurately fire back at you without you finishing him off. I'd guess 3-4 rounds on target would completely incapacitate him about 98/100 times. 

This is the issue. This is what people are so frustrated about. This is why this is a never ending topic. Armor does not turn you into Master Chief. It might save your life. It might stop a bullet from doing any damage. It might keep you in the fight if you get hit once, and in best case scenario keep you in the fight if you get hit twice.

Armor does not generate an energy force field around you. It lowers the extremely high risk of you being incapacitated by a small amount. The probability that 5-10 rifle caliber rounds on target only hit plates directly, or gets stopped by soft body armor, is virtually zero. If you shoot someone in the shoulder from an angle where the projectile's trajectory continues through the body, the projectile will go through and exit the body leaving a golf ball size exit wound, and probably get stopped by soft body armor on its way out. 

There needs to be hefty penalties for getting hit if there is ever going to be any longevity to this game. If gunplay does not suspend our disbelief people will grow tired of this game fast. 

I am not saying EFT should try to emulate IRL probability entirely. Heavy heavy armor, maybe 3-6 poorly placed rifle rounds to make the target hit the dirt (maybe dead, unconscious, or just fall over with a time set animation where your avatar is struggling to compose himself) would be a reasonable middle ground I could accept. The "half a 30-round mag of 5.45 full metal jacket rounds on target from 5 meters away but you are the one who dies"-norm (yes, I have personally experienced that way too many times) we have now though? Completely unacceptable. 

My $0.02

This whole argument kinda reminds me of WoW's whole "You think you do, but you don't". I feel like if EFT had REALISTIC armor mechanics where it only takes a couple shots before you drop with ANY AMMO everyone would be up in arms since it would completely break the little bit of balance they have in the game. Armor would become almost completely useless and with their current price would never be bought unless you really just have that much money to throw away. Tarkov already has a problem where many players use low gear/hatchet runs and get as much loot in a raid as someone with a 300k loadout and changing armor to be borderline useless would only make that problem worse. As much as I hate the whole hit someone in the chest 11 times and they don't die I understand why its there. I know I have had situations where my armor has eating a good few rounds and that is why I survived. Just to prove that armor wouldn't be used look at how useless helmets are currently. Most helmets are considered garbage besides class 4 and the 16k class 3 one. Tell me do you think people will buy class 3 body armor if it only takes and extra round but costs as much as an M4? I'm all for realism but I feel like armor and ammo is currently just fine. I can't think of a better system off the top of my head. I hope you understand my argument as I am typing this after just waking up so I'm probably all over the place. 

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Yeavo

@GhostSpartan117Is it impossible to think that if you brought the price of armor to reasonable level people would still see it as viable option even if its level 2? Even a small chance to stop a bullet from penetrating would be worth the price then. If the price is right people will use anything that gives them a small advantage. Its a numbers game. No need to make unrealistically protective gear when bang for buck is right.

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PuddleMurda
9 hours ago, GhostSpartan117 said:

This whole argument kinda reminds me of WoW's whole "You think you do, but you don't". I feel like if EFT had REALISTIC armor mechanics where it only takes a couple shots before you drop with ANY AMMO everyone would be up in arms since it would completely break the little bit of balance they have in the game. Armor would become almost completely useless and with their current price would never be bought unless you really just have that much money to throw away. Tarkov already has a problem where many players use low gear/hatchet runs and get as much loot in a raid as someone with a 300k loadout and changing armor to be borderline useless would only make that problem worse. As much as I hate the whole hit someone in the chest 11 times and they don't die I understand why its there. I know I have had situations where my armor has eating a good few rounds and that is why I survived. Just to prove that armor wouldn't be used look at how useless helmets are currently. Most helmets are considered garbage besides class 4 and the 16k class 3 one. Tell me do you think people will buy class 3 body armor if it only takes and extra round but costs as much as an M4? I'm all for realism but I feel like armor and ammo is currently just fine. I can't think of a better system off the top of my head. I hope you understand my argument as I am typing this after just waking up so I'm probably all over the place. 

I really do see where you are coming from, and if I were to look at it from your perspective I would probably agree. 

The problem is I do not look at it from your perspective. I do not look at the current state of EFT, the flea market, traders, prices, the raids (as they play out now), the objectives (or lack thereof), or even the lore, as fully explored and developed.
Your arguments are very reasonable if we are to assume that the way we play EFT now is how it always will be played. I am pretty sure that is not the case. 

But if I am to address the specific points you made...

There are a million different ways to prevent hatchet runs without the need to compromise elsewhere. The secure container changes that are currently being tested would most definitely eliminate the great majority of hatchlings. Arguments against the suggested limitations of the secure container is based solely on the game becoming more difficult, which in my opinion is ironic as an increased difficulty in a game only makes it a better experience and gives it more longevity. 

When it comes to EFT ballistics I think it boils down to personal preferences. Like you said; "I know I have had situations where my armor has eating a good few rounds and that is why I survived." I don't want that leeway. Not for myself or anyone else. 

However, there is room for different interpretations here. 

When I say something along the lines of "When I hit my intended target 5 times, I expect them to go down" I do mean it in the context of me sneaking up behind a guy and putting five rounds on target within a second or so. I do not necessarily mean that if a player is hit five times during a raid he should be done for. 

Armor could serve a great purpose, even if it wouldn't mean guaranteed protection in a situation where you messed up. I do not think the devs should rely on their ballistics model alone when it comes to simulating a believable outcome in a firefight.

For an example:

If a heavily armored player walks straight into an ambush and gets lit up, he shouldn't be able to accurately and effectively fire back if he, within a second, takes 2-3 direct hits from an assault rifle, even if loaded with HP rounds. It completely breaks the immersion. The armored player messed up, but the armor has given him a chance to take cover and re-evaluate his situation. An unarmored player would be dead on the spot, so the armor just paid for itself. The armor itself might not even have taken much damage from those HP rounds, and the player is overall in pretty good condition. 

But (and this is a major but) if the armored player took 5-10 direct hits in that same ambush he should be incapacitated. If EFT's ballistics model says differently they need to implement some kind of shock- or "excessive amount of overall damage made within a short time frame" factor to the equation that overrides "armor". IRL it would be considered a miracle (not loosely thrown around to prove a point but a literal miracle; divine intervention) if anyone took 5-10 direct hits from an assault rifle, armored to the teeth or not, and did not become completely incapacitated. It has no place in a game that describes itself as realistic. 

Again, this is the reason why we see this thread over and over and over. New or revisiting players join a raid and immerse themselves into the game world. They play cautiously as they are not familiar with the current META. They manage to, through patience and wits, get the drop on another player and lights him the f*ck up. Somehow they die, and sit there in total disbelief with an anti-climactic adrenaline rush, and feel cheated. Rightfully so. This is a real issue that BSG need to address. 

 

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blobface

The issue with every complaint like this is because you're playing this game and expecting things to work like other games you play that happen to have guns in them, EFT requires a lot of attention on equipment, if you have a Grach, don't engage unless you have to, don't take a shot unless it's at someone's unprotected head / face, otherwise you're going to have a bad time. I once took down a player cosplaying as Killa at factory (before the pre-wipe-event), all I had was an AK without a stock, a 10+1, I creeped until he'd killed everything in sight, I creeped some more until he was looting, then I creeped even more until I was right next to him, then I emptied my gun into his knees point blank from behind, one of the most fruitful scav runs of my experience.

If you're low gear, your play expectation shouldn't be "Oh I can kill some geared players and take their stuff", you should be terrified at the sound of them, and the best way to approach to let them pass, if they try to hunt you down, get away. The game also gives new players a lot of tools to get ahead, namely the Mosin and Vepr Hunter (especially the Vepr Hunter), if you'd like to ambush higher level players, then use those tools to your advantage correctly. 

7.62 (even x39) works pretty well, even PS, if you play correctly... 

441622392_2019-10-1513-30(1).thumb.png.a11b3b4c5ba2ecffd938c0d881dcda97.png

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Yeavo
17 hours ago, blobface said:

The issue with every complaint like this is because you're playing this game and expecting things to work like other games you play that happen to have guns in them, EFT requires a lot of attention on equipment, if you have a Grach, don't engage unless you have to, don't take a shot unless it's at someone's unprotected head / face, otherwise you're going to have a bad time.

I haven't heard anyone argue you should be able to take out (NIJ) level 4 armored thiccbois with a 9mm. I wouldn't have problem with the armor if it was a genuine power armor in a scifi setting but its not. I have worn some of these armors found in game and have even owned some of them. The whole "uuuh this is SOOO realistic" reaction people keep spouting really isn't present in me or any of my pals who have firearms experience be that professional or hobbyist. Generally ex-military guys here on this forum with one or two exceptions seem to hate the armor system in its current form. But damage modeling is only part of it.

Real life armor isn't that heavy but it's not comfortable either for various reasons. If you'd had ever run around in bulky IOTV/interceptors you'd know this. In EFT you just run around like its extra layer of cloth when closest thing you can try out for yourself is encasing your torso in a couple of layers of plastic and go for 4 mile jog then hit the gym, do full workout and then go for another 4 mile jog.. That gives you the idea without the extra weight.

Then there is the fact that we don't get meaningful feeling of getting shot. getting hit with a 7.62x39mm feels like some 4 yo is throwing small rocks at you. When people have described getting hit with a 9mm as getting hit as something between getting getting hit with a rubber mallet and baseball bat into body armor. You can test this by strapping a wooden cutting board to your chest and having friend take a whack at you (for legal reasons I can't recommend it). You won't die or hopefully break bones from that be it isn't the same as taking a hit from an airsoft bb.

So in conclusion when it comes to armor so many things are off: They are way too protective, feel like an extra wool shirt over your character, they absorb damage like its a babushkas magic force field. Just takes me out of the action immediately.

I remember the first few weeks of playing this game and being so afraid of these armored thiccboiis galloping around but once the gear fear began dissipating it started to just annoy the hell out me. I find both baffling and frustrating that BSG as put in so much effort to get this level of realistic firearms handling (checking the mag, checking the chamber, fire selector .etc) to just utterly fail to have realistic armor to that same level of realism.

Some have argued the current armor system makes EFT unique experience. Can't argue with that. I'll just leave you with this "motivational" pic to ponder about:

579019850_Demotivational-uniquejpeg.jpg.fc17f0a284f9009e824f5263099d9b98.jpgPs. Please try not to mind the overwhelming numbers of typos in my post. I suffer from a mild dyslexia.

Edited by Yeavo
correcting typos/Post-scriptum
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PuddleMurda
18 hours ago, blobface said:

The issue with every complaint like this is because you're playing this game and expecting things to work like other games you play that happen to have guns in them, EFT requires a lot of attention on equipment, if you have a Grach, don't engage unless you have to, don't take a shot unless it's at someone's unprotected head / face, otherwise you're going to have a bad time.

The issue is that people go to Escape From Tarkov's official website and read "Escape from Tarkov is a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough." and approach the game as such, only to play a couple of raids and realize that you need to plug PMCs and raiders with eight or more 7.62x39 full metal jacket rounds to put them down. 

I am going to quote myself here... 

On 10/11/2019 at 9:57 PM, PuddleMurda said:

When players in sheer frustration get on the forum and express what OP just did, they are not looking to be schooled in EFT game mechanics. They have just played a couple of raids in a game they expect to feel somewhat authentic, at least in terms of gunplay, and can not believe what just went down. They put 5-10 rifle rounds on target, or blasted someone point blank with a shotgun a couple of times, but they are the ones who got wrecked by the same guy effectively returning fire as he was getting showered in projectiles. 

On top of that, full-auto recoil in EFT is a travesty to put it lightly. I really can not understand the decision to have the avatar control the recoil after the first round goes off instead of having the player learn to control the recoil. If they just had the ever rising muzzle, like in every other hardcore shooter, and had implemented a ridiculously intense vertical recoil when going fully automatic, it would have been awesome.

Kudos to BSG for trying something new, but it didn't work out this time. 

 

38 minutes ago, Yeavo said:

Real life armor isn't that heavy but it's not comfortable either for various reasons. If you'd had ever run around in bulky IOTV/interceptors you'd know this. In EFT you just run around like its extra layer of cloth when closest thing you can try out for yourself is encasing your torso in a couple of layers of plastic and go for 4 mile jog then hit the gym, do full workout and then go for another 4 mile jog.. That gives you the idea without the extra weight.

Yeah man. It's like these PMCs are cyborgs. Geared to the teeth, top to bottom, an assault rifle in hands and one in a sling on the back, pistol on the hip, a backpack filled to the brim with weapons and other clunky stuff. You can be carrying 70+ kg of extra weight and run around like nothing. Shiiieeet... you'd be stumbling, falling over, barely being able to crouch and get back without losing your balance, constantly getting stuck in confined spaces. Crouch walking? Yeah, don't think so. Lay down flat on your stomach, with a weapon in your hands, and pop back up like nothing? Yeah, don't think so. You'd have to roll over and try to use some kind of momentum and leverage to even get on your knees. 

Edited by PuddleMurda

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PuddleMurda
18 hours ago, blobface said:

If you're low gear, your play expectation shouldn't be "Oh I can kill some geared players and take their stuff", you should be terrified at the sound of them, and the best way to approach to let them pass, if they try to hunt you down, get away.

What is low gear? A 7.62 Vepr KM and a scav vest? If you outsmart and outplay a geared player, why should you be terrified of him when you are carrying a fully capable semi-automatic assault rifle?

I didn't know Quake's red armor power-up spawned in Tarkov. 

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PimpMyWiki

I brought a Vepr 136 with some basic mods and a 30mag filled with 7.62x39 PS ammo to Customs the other day.
Based on my spawnpoint I knew someone might come by soon, so I lay down in a bush to make an ambush, solo players gotta eat too..
 

Thiccboy comes along, I start unloading on him. He panic-fires around my general bush-area when I'm halfway through my magazine, since I'm prone and calm and not taking direct fire I think my general accuracy is probably 60-75%. I'm not even a bit surprised when I'm completely empty and have to reload, then to finish Thiccboy off with the first 5 rounds or so of a fresh 30 mag.

Even if I whiffed some of those shots, and most were center mass, not headshots or legshots (though some might've impacted arms), does this seem right to anyone?

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Yeavo

@PimpMyWiki*coughing* "Welcome to Tarkov", "Git Gud or GTFO REEEE!"

But seriously I'm not surprised at all. The fact that you can take out thiccboiis isn't an argument for why it should be like this. For me situations you just described take me out of the immersion completely. And when I'm going thicc its un-immersive experience is even worse. I feel like playing Fallout 4  with power armor while fighting low level raiders. There is no feeling of danger and thus no excitement or relief when I survive. Just "meh".

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PuddleMurda
26 minutes ago, PimpMyWiki said:

Even if I whiffed some of those shots, and most were center mass, not headshots or legshots (though some might've impacted arms), does this seem right to anyone?

Unfortunately it seems right to a lot of players. 

"B-b-but... armor!?" 
"I spent all week doing hatchet runs, so I am entitled to not dying all weekend when I gear up"'
"Balance" 
"It's a game" 
"Look at this video of someone shooting this other dude in a chest plate" 
"Look at streamer tutorials on how to make the most money in the shortest amount of time, and just buy the best ammo... duh" 
"Too much realism and the game will be boring" 
"What do you want? Realism? Well, then they need to simulate you unzipping the IFAK, steer your hand into the bag using mouse and W-S-A-D, pick out the necessary medical appliance for the wound you have received, apply pressure by fast tapping middle mouse button... this is totally a relevant argument in favor of being able to tank 15 consecutive 7.62x39 rounds from 5 meters away"  

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blobface
2 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

The issue is that people go to Escape From Tarkov's official website and read "Escape from Tarkov is a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough." and approach the game as such

As if there's a single interpretation of what "hardcore" and "realistic" means, is Tarkov more realistic than COD? I would argue yes, is it more hardcore than Arma? I think so, someone else might disagree. Everyone has a different viewpoint on what hardcore and realistic means, so when I first played Tarkov and got owned pretty much every time, my reaction wasn't "this isn't realistic", it was "Christ this is too hardcore.", that is, until I learned the mechanics, like how I have to learn the mechanics of any other games I play that isn't just another copy of the standard FPS model. 

In my mind there are things that have to be improved for it to be more realistic:

1) player driven recoil control: not only does this make continuous spray less feasible, it also helps with immersion, if I want to fire a 7.62x51 gun on full auto, my mouse would be dragged off the desk after a few rounds, it really helps with the "feel" of each weapon if I have to physically compensate for it with my mouse movement by various degree depending on the calibre / gun. 

2) Plate hitbox, I have no issue with the right rating armour stopping the right calibre of incoming bullets, I do however have an issue with there not being armour hitbox, there should be hitboxes (which I believe is due for improvements?) even within each plate carrier, so there are plenty of gaps to shoot through, if you shoot them in the shoulder from the side, it would penetrate into the torso, if you shoot them above the plate and under their head, it should hit their neck / unprotected upper chest area. There should even be gaps between the front plate and side plates, as far as I'm aware no modern armour are completely decked out and offers 360 protection like medieval armour were against arrows. 

3) Surprise mechanics (?) If you're just walking around and take a 7.62 to the chest out of nowhere, even if you're wearing serious plates that experience no deformation, you'd probably fall over from the shock and the impact, however, if you're fully aware you're in a fight with Adrenalin rushing through your veins, you might not fall over. 

All that being said, the experiencing of having to take armour and ammo type into consideration before an engagement is a very unique experience that I enjoy, I played through the last wipe up to level 40+ almost never using anything other than Mosin, MP5 and occasionally SKS with PS with varying degree of success. Sure it can be improved as I said above, but this is Tarkov, even if it gets improved, it would be in the direction they're currently going, asking for anything that deviates too much is close to asking for a different game. 

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blobface
3 hours ago, PuddleMurda said:

What is low gear? A 7.62 Vepr KM and a scav vest? If you outsmart and outplay a geared player, why should you be terrified of him when you are carrying a fully capable semi-automatic assault rifle?

I didn't know Quake's red armor power-up spawned in Tarkov. 

"The game also gives new players a lot of tools to get ahead, namely the Mosin and Vepr Hunter" Err, I already mentioned, the game gives you tools to not have to be terrified with geared guys, but if you only have a PM or a Grach, then you should be afraid. 

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Yeavo

@blobfaceI actually agree with your list of improvements and think that would go far to get atleast myself immersed. I can't speak for @PuddleMurdaofcourse but I think you two are pretty much arguing for the same things.

Now your idea #3 about surprise mechanics is cool and would be something worthwhile to experiment with (after all that is what BETA -testing is for, right?) but personally I have no idea how one would implement it and I dabble a bit in game design as a hobby (Unreal engine mostly). Awesome idea though.

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PuddleMurda

@Yeavo and @blobface

Yes, I think me and blobface are mostly arguing for the same things. Where we disagree is the unique feel of Tarkov. I think it's lacking, not unique. I feel Arma is much more realistic when it comes to the general outcome of a firefight. The mechanics behind the outcome is of less importance to me, as long as I feel the outcome was justified, whether or not I am victorious. Arma 3 does this very very well. EFT fails more often than not. 

48 minutes ago, blobface said:

In my mind there are things that have to be improved for it to be more realistic:

1 and 2, completely agree. Not sure if it's possible to accurately implement and therefore I am in favor of something other than just EFT's ballistics model, like a feature that overrides "armor" if a player is absolutely hosed down in bullets. If someone's carrying a 9mm pistol with standard type ammo I agree he can single tap a thiccboi center mass all day without taking him out. But I still feel getting absolutely riddled with 9mm from an MP5 within a second or two should have more of an effect. 

Regarding point 3, I simply think it would be too difficult to implement, even if I support the idea of it. 

Edited by PuddleMurda

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Mariner

Have the devs officially stated anywhere that armour plate hitboxes are actually going to be implemented? I see a lot of talk about it but can’t find any solid information about it.

It would be a literal game changer in my view.

 

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Yeavo

@MarinerI remember it being some Q&A on some stream where someone asked about it and Nikita said one of his default answers: "Considered", "planned" or "Will be implemented" which lead the whole community go wild. Now everyone (myself included, can't help it) are hyped about it and takes it as promise. Oh boy is it going to suck if BSG can't deliver on it because even if they've never promised it the hypetrain steamed ahead full speed and now pretty much everybody is expecting it to be a feature in Tarkov.

Lets keep out fingers crossed.

Ps. I was experimenting on this in UE4 it most definitely can be done. I see no problem for this being the case in Unity aswell, however doing something in offline singleplayer "demo" mode is still very far from being able to do it in an online multiplayer environment.

Edited by Yeavo
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blobface

There's no doubt it can be done, but the question is at what cost, the game already has a face hitbox surrounded by armour, and helmets already have high resolution (relatively speaking) hit boxes, so that is essentially what will need to be implemented for the rest of the armour. How much that affects accuracy and how intensive it is for the engine, only BSG can tell. There's also a grinding aspect to it in that someone will have to add extra colliders for every single armour type in the game, and if there's a revamp planned, then it's not worth doing.

I'm secretly hoping total remodelling is the reason why they keep pushing this back, it's somewhat weird at the moment because many of the vests, such as the bog standard AVS vest, are plate carriers, I don't think it's normal for anyone to wear an empty plate carrier for magazines only to wear another plate carrier underneath for armour. 

Edited by blobface

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