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Dark_Alfred

Stop the Key-Usage Madness RIGHT NOW!

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Dark_Alfred

Dear BSG,

are u kidding us ? Do you want the casual playerbase to leave the game ?

Stop the madness that normal keys have usage.

50 Uses for Factory key ? Where is ur realism there ? Before any key gets destroyed cause of usage, we all died of old age.

It is simply stupid to force the casual players to rebuy expensive keys for millions and millions of roubles every week. No Casual player will play the game anymore.

50 Uses of a factory key ... where u need 2 !!!! uses to open the customs shortcut only ONCE.

U always say u want the game to be realistic but yet force all the players to senseless grind for some stupid key all over again but 50 uses are not realistic AT ALL.

Make it a 50.000 uses and we can talk about it ...

No offense but simply stupid.

 

 

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daviocanyon

I agree that the factory key usage was a bit uncalled for, and it will demotivate certain players, but you need to see the better picture.

Now you will become more aware and  need to bring nades to GATE 3 if you ran out of usage and prefire every corner  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  #itssomething

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klabautermann

I disagree. I like the idea of getting more keys with max. amount of uses.

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Yeavo

The key madness exists to have players not just hoard keys and use them for quick loot runs such as the Marked key. The flaw however runs much deeper. In a sense it suppose to stop you from getting bored but instead manages to just irritate. Hopefully this is just a temporary solution to a problem that is the lack of "end game" content. I don't find it annoying at all, but then again I've never really seen any use to having the factory key in the first place. I usually just use the gate 3 and prefire or nade it in case of extract campers.

The fact that this game relies on keys, that are hard to find but once you find get you to important places (quest keys) or valuable loot areas (what I call lootkeys for lack of a better term) is the root cause. I think Nikita may have even suggested this himself but I'll repeat it: Make keys like quest items: They spawn in raid 100% of the time but you have to use them in that very raid. So to get to the marked room you must first find the marked key and then proceed to open the marked room door, similar to the quest: Golden Swag, where you need to pick up the Golden Zippo from doors and to place it inside the bunkhouse on trailerpark.

You could also extend this system like the quest: Delivery From The Past, where you pick up a docs case from the customs office and place it at the factory siwng room. So how I see it could fuction is: You pick up the marked key from lets say resort east wing room 321 but now you have to survive and extract with it inorder to access dorms marked room in customs. The chance of loosing the key if you die would also incentivize you to gear up to increase your chances of survival, and that feeds back to BSGs desired gameplayloop. 

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LenzOA
6 minutes ago, Yeavo said:

 You pick up the marked key from lets say resort east wing room 321 but now you have to survive and extract with it inorder to access dorms marked room in customs.. 

yeah, no thanks. i already hate the quest where you have to play a different map just to place the item in the next raid. i prefer the keys.

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mattywatty2012
17 hours ago, Dark_Alfred said:

Dear BSG,

are u kidding us ? Do you want the casual playerbase to leave the game ?

Stop the madness that normal keys have usage.

50 Uses for Factory key ? Where is ur realism there ? Before any key gets destroyed cause of usage, we all died of old age.

It is simply stupid to force the casual players to rebuy expensive keys for millions and millions of roubles every week. No Casual player will play the game anymore.

50 Uses of a factory key ... where u need 2 !!!! uses to open the customs shortcut only ONCE.

U always say u want the game to be realistic but yet force all the players to senseless grind for some stupid key all over again but 50 uses are not realistic AT ALL.

Make it a 50.000 uses and we can talk about it ...

No offense but simply stupid.

 

 

The factory key is only needed for one mission, apart from that it is a quality of life key.

The customs shortcut can be jumped from level 1. Learn the jump and you dont need the key.

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Yeavo
17 minutes ago, LenzOA said:

yeah, no thanks. i already hate the quest where you have to play a different map just to place the item in the next raid. i prefer the keys.

I understand your frustration on the matter. Hell I've rage-quit over the delivery from past so many times I've lost count. But you need to think about the subject from the perspective of what the gameplayloop is supposed to be: Survival and fear of death (losing gear and items). There is nothing more terrifying currently than the thought of losing your precious keys and that is why BSG needs to make them either have certain amount of uses only or like quest items that can and will be lost.

Having unlootable keys you can keep indefinitely 'till the next wipe is more of safety net in my opinion than secure container itself. The keys are also very important part of the hatchling -meta.

Imagine: You've finally managed to get through the grind of questing and collecting all those condensed milks and now you're the proud owner of Kiba keys. You gear up and prepare to go raid it. You fight through Scavs, PMCs and even defeat Killa by some miracle after being already shot to pieces by other PMCs only to find Kiba already looted and in the middle of the store floor there lies one body holding onto its precious hatchet. All that work and you get nothing for some quick-boyyy had run there before the AI even spawned quicker than what you could ever have weighted down by all that gear. He had beat you to you prize and showed it all up his prison wallet and then DC'ed right there at the middle of that store to give a huge middle finger for trying to adhere to devs intended gameplay loop.

Edited by Yeavo
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LenzOA
59 minutes ago, Yeavo said:

But you need to think about the subject from the perspective of what the gameplayloop is supposed to be: Survival and fear of death (losing gear and items).

it turns into a change of my gameplay. i join the factory map that i usually only play for quests with a friend, we camp in a corner for 10 min until we dont hear any more shots and then we move to the quest location and plant it. this is not how i want to play the game. but its the most effective way.

 

i still have the quest in factory where i have to fix the 2 boards. not doing it because it does not fit my gamestyle and i dont like playing factory.

 

thanks to the flee market i can now skip most of the quests/maps i dont like to play and just buy my gear there. having just the normal version of the game i am still forced to make the first 5 punisher quests for my container since you cant buy the gamma on the market anymore. it is what it is i guess.

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opiat3
17 hours ago, Dark_Alfred said:

Dear BSG,

are u kidding us ? Do you want the casual playerbase to leave the game ?

Stop the madness that normal keys have usage.

50 Uses for Factory key ? Where is ur realism there ? Before any key gets destroyed cause of usage, we all died of old age.

It is simply stupid to force the casual players to rebuy expensive keys for millions and millions of roubles every week. No Casual player will play the game anymore.

50 Uses of a factory key ... where u need 2 !!!! uses to open the customs shortcut only ONCE.

U always say u want the game to be realistic but yet force all the players to senseless grind for some stupid key all over again but 50 uses are not realistic AT ALL.

Make it a 50.000 uses and we can talk about it ...

No offense but simply stupid.

 

 

Ohhh! Another angry kid got away from his Nanny.

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BonerPants

Do it for all Keys!

i like it!

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Yeavo
8 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

Ohhh! Another angry kid got away from his Nanny.

That's not very constructive way to engage in conversation. You could have just said that you disagree and then told OP why you disagree. Or at the very least do what this guy did: 

 

5 minutes ago, BonerPants said:

Do it for all Keys!

i like it!

 

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PardTheTroll
vor 1 Stunde schrieb Yeavo:

The fact that this game relies on keys, that are hard to find but once you find get you to important places (quest keys) or valuable loot areas (what I call lootkeys for lack of a better term) is the root cause. I think Nikita may have even suggested this himself but I'll repeat it: Make keys like quest items: They spawn in raid 100% of the time but you have to use them in that very raid. So to get to the marked room you must first find the marked key and then proceed to open the marked room door, similar to the quest: Golden Swag, where you need to pick up the Golden Zippo from doors and to place it inside the bunkhouse on trailerpark.

If Nikita said it, he read my mind or my post once. Lets hope he also implements it!

P.S. I am out of upvotes :( 

Edited by PardTheTroll

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Yeavo
52 minutes ago, LenzOA said:

i still have the quest in factory where i have to fix the 2 boards. not doing it because it does not fit my gamestyle and i dont like playing factory.

I don't like factory either and go raid it only if I have to. Personally I fixed the panels while doing stirrup which was annoying but after succeeding very rewarding. But I don't have just one gameplay -style in my tactical bag, so to speak. I adapt to the mission, like you're supposed to. Most military creeds around the world go on along the lines of: "Mission comes first". Your a PMC, and usually that means an experienced ex-soldier, so you need to try to think like one. If you only have one style of doing your given missions you are going to have to approach every mission from that perspective. Its like the saying goes "If all you have is a hammer every problem needs to be a nail".

Try to adapt more. You'll enjoy the game more if you're more comfortable with variety.

PS. I'm also out of upvotes.

Edited by Yeavo

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Yeavo
12 minutes ago, PardTheTroll said:

If Nikita said it, he read my mind or my post once. Lets hope he also implements it!

Emphasis on may have. I have a faint memory about this but really don't have the energy nor patience to go through all the streams and podcasts he has done.

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fatmonkey26

There is so much better and more interesting ways to introduce fear of death and less hatchling meta. multiple times, there has been suggestions for way more entertaining systems. dynamic loot spawns, which add a sense of realism and stops people from farming certain keys/rare items/keycards with only a hatchet. sure, there would be high loot areas and low loot areas, but you don't know exactly what room a TerraGroups scientist who has red access stayed, you don't know where exactly the russian military put it's most secure key. more scavengers on high loot areas, an approach that, if you don't like the idea of totally random spawns, curves hatchlings at the very least. now, maybe the Kiba store now has an angry scavenger who defends it. does he need better gear or AI? that could be a possibility. now, hatchlings won't be able to clean house, and the loot either goes to the person who kills the scavenger, or the person who kills that person. adding key durability is a band-aid fix for BSG to feel like the game is going the direction they want it to, in my opinion, when really, now you have some people not using these keys because they are more expensive and have durability, and the people who can afford it just getting richer. and with the hatchling problem? you still get the choicest loot when you loot a place that's just locked behind a 20k roubles paywall. you still have all those rare spawns to shove into your gamma, and those will just be sold to make money for more keys for more farming for more money for...- you get the idea.

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PardTheTroll
vor 5 Minuten schrieb Yeavo:

Emphasis on may have. I have a faint memory about this but really don't have the energy nor patience to go through all the streams and podcasts he has done.

Is fine, I got that. One can only hope, right? :) 

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Yeavo
1 minute ago, PardTheTroll said:

One can only hope, right?

Sure. its not yet time to start quoting Dante's Inferno "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here".

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PardTheTroll
Gerade eben schrieb Yeavo:

Dante's Inferno "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

Stop forcing likes from me! :D 

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PardTheTroll
vor 13 Minuten schrieb fatmonkey26:

dynamic loot spawns, which add a sense of realism and stops people from farming certain keys/rare items/keycards with only a hatchet. sure, there would be high loot areas and low loot areas, but you don't know exactly what room a TerraGroups scientist who has red access stayed, you don't know where exactly the russian military put it's most secure key. more scavengers on high loot areas, an approach that, if you don't like the idea of totally random spawns, curves hatchlings at the very least.

You are right, no one will deny that. It may be the ultimate solution for everything loot related. But for now, we don't know that and (sadly) we don't have that.

Also, you can't make it completely random towards loot in specific locations/rooms. It has to make sense, that certain rooms have a (higher) chance to spawn specific loot. Of course, only if that room is locked. But here was my solution a while back, to let one or two keys per raid spawn (randomly somewhere or on a scav), which can be used to open either such rooms or specific loot containers. Scouting/roaming/searching the map would be finally worth it and make a raid way more dynamic. 

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fatmonkey26
1 minute ago, PardTheTroll said:

You are right, no one will deny that. It may be the ultimate solution for everything loot related. But for now, we don't know that and (sadly) we don't have that.

 

Saying "Sadly, we don't have that", is the idea behind why things are suggested. we SHOULD have that, and this key fix is ultimately annoying and unnecessary to me. I would rather deal with the hatchlings, deal with my 800k rouble key being worthless 30% of the time because some fast lad ran to the resort and possibly, likely didn't, but possibly, swiped that red card in his crack. it's annoying, but this key bullshit is far less help and more unnecessary harm. frankly, I don't think it's done anything good besides mark up keys on the flea market when I want to sell them.

5 minutes ago, PardTheTroll said:

Also, you can't make it completely random towards loot in specific locations/rooms. It has to make sense, that certain rooms have a (higher) chance to spawn specific loot. Of course, only if that room is locked.

That's what I was trying to say about the "Sure, there would be high loot and low loot areas". meaning, if I have to open the west room 222 with a key, it should have generally higher loot. it should have a very high chance to spawn an M4A1 in the weapon locker. it should have considerably less chance to spawn the red card, but still have a chance. But, this shouldn't be the only room it can spawn in, hell, it should be able to spawn almost anywhere in the laboratory. that's where the keycard originally belongs in the first place!

10 minutes ago, PardTheTroll said:

But here was my solution a while back, to let one or two keys per raid spawn (randomly somewhere or on a scav), which can be used to open either such rooms or specific loot containers. Scouting/roaming/searching the map would be finally worth it and make a raid way more dynamic. 

That's an interesting take on it, and I like it. I don't think it would make sense realistically, and that would sometimes lead to games where just a crafty scav is hidden well and nobody gets the loot, but, it seems overall okay. Expanding on the idea, if keys were in raid find only can't take out, maybe we can look to shturman for this idea. if you kill shturman, you get a key to his stash. why doesn't reshala, who is "Dealmaker" have a stash? or Glukar, who thinks he owns the military base? he should have some sort of operating base he keeps the key on him for. personally I would love if you want the high reward of the good stuff, you gotta have the high skill to kill a squadron of very armed and armored scavengers, or you gotta have the high risk of taking good stuff to fight with.

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Yeavo
15 minutes ago, PardTheTroll said:

But here was my solution a while back, to let one or two keys per raid spawn (randomly somewhere or on a scav), which can be used to open either such rooms or specific loot containers. Scouting/roaming/searching the map would be finally worth it and make a raid way more dynamic. 

That's a definitely better than what we have now. I however am not so sold on the idea of spawning it to the inventory of a random scav. Rather I'd like it to be 100% not a matter of chance. Maybe spawn it into inventory of a boss? This way high loot areas would turn into rewards, like Sthurmans key to his stash is a one use reward for defeating him.

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PardTheTroll
vor 5 Minuten schrieb Yeavo:

Maybe spawn it into inventory of a boss? This way high loot areas would turn into rewards, like Sthurmans key to his stash is a one use reward for defeating him.

Is a possibility. My idea is not perfect. There is a lot of space for improvement.

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PardTheTroll
vor 14 Minuten schrieb fatmonkey26:

if you kill shturman, you get a key to his stash. why doesn't reshala, who is "Dealmaker" have a stash? or Glukar, who thinks he owns the military base? he should have some sort of operating base he keeps the key on him for. personally I would love if you want the high reward of the good stuff, you gotta have the high skill to kill a squadron of very armed and armored scavengers, or you gotta have the high risk of taking good stuff to fight with.

Absolutely! Just have to randomize where their stash might be. Shturmans is always at the same place for example.

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GhostZ69
2 hours ago, mattywatty2012 said:

The factory key is only needed for one mission, apart from that it is a quality of life key.

The customs shortcut can be jumped from level 1. Learn the jump and you dont need the key.

Oh really?  When you spawn on the Customs office side how do you jump the shortcut to go to old gas station?  I have been playing two years and unless you get max strength you can't make that jump.  How do you do it at level 1?

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Yeavo
Just now, PardTheTroll said:

My idea is not perfect. There is a lot of space for improvement.

There isn't a perfect solution to this problem, and someone is always going to be disappointed because their vision of EFT didn't come into being. Ultimately we can hope and make suggestions to BSG but its their creation. I'd even that as paying customers we have the right to be angry about these changes but it is still BSGs right to do as they will.

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