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Scav Teamkillers - Karma System?

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hipsu

I find it super annoying to get killed everytime by your own scav-player mates.

Shouldnt be there some kind of karma system or something else to stop that behavior? 

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Scionti
3 hours ago, hipsu said:

I find it super annoying to get killed everytime by your own scav-player mates.

Shouldnt be there some kind of karma system or something else to stop that behavior? 

Yeah, the tricky part is how do you code it to know who is truly in violation. Like say Scav asshole starts shooting at you but misses, and you shoot back and kill him. (this is the current issue) - you are now flagged the one in violation to the AI and get clapped up improperly.

Maybe have it cumulative...I don't know how Day Z had it coded, but it took a few kills before you had a "bandit" skin, and other players would know immediately on sight that you were essentially a PK'er. (This was in the mod for Arma 2, I haven't played Standalone Day Z)

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Forien
46 minutes ago, Scionti said:

.I don't know how Day Z had it coded

You had numerical "karma". Don't remember specifics, but let's say (using arbitrary numbers) you start with score 2000 and each time you hit someone is -100 points. Let's assume each kill is another -500 points. When you drop below 0 you become bandit and people don't get punished for shooting you. When you get over 4000 you become hero, and shooting you was more punishing. 

Also, they had some type of "who started fight" system, but I don't know the details of that.

 

48 minutes ago, Scionti said:

Yeah, the tricky part is how do you code it to know who is truly in violation. Like say Scav asshole starts shooting at you but misses, and you shoot back and kill him

In my opinion it's good way of detecting it, but it needs to be persistent. What I mean is, you should get punished (for example with longer scav cooldowns or worse gear, or constant hostile AI throughout multiple raids) for shooting "friendly scavs" (either player or AI)

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p4nnus
On 12/8/2019 at 7:28 AM, hipsu said:

I find it super annoying to get killed everytime by your own scav-player mates.

Shouldnt be there some kind of karma system or something else to stop that behavior? 

A karma system is being thought about at BSG, but nothing certain has been said AKA its not been confirmed to happen in a certain implementation. 

Im strongly against scav karma system. The lore quite clearly explains that scavs are shady, greedy and opportunistic criminals that have "dog-eat-dog" rules. Thats pretty much no rules. 

You shouldnt trust anyone who is not your real friend in this game. I like it as it also makes the rare friendly encounters feel like sth special. The game is not supposed to be a happy playground of friendly people having fun after all.

On 12/8/2019 at 10:33 AM, Scionti said:

Maybe have it cumulative...I don't know how Day Z had it coded, but it took a few kills before you had a "bandit" skin, and other players would know immediately on sight that you were essentially a PK'er. (This was in the mod for Arma 2, I haven't played Standalone Day Z)

Yeah, I remember the bandit skin. I had that and the hero skin on another server. It was removed even during the mod days as it penalized certain kind of gameplay. It was also unrealistic and stupid. Thats why nothing similar is implemented in DayZ and thats a good thing. 

On 12/8/2019 at 11:24 AM, Forien said:

Also, they had some type of "who started fight" system, but I don't know the details of that.

In my opinion it's good way of detecting it, but it needs to be persistent. What I mean is, you should get punished (for example with longer scav cooldowns or worse gear, or constant hostile AI throughout multiple raids) for shooting "friendly scavs" (either player or AI)

In EFT every scav you play is a different person, thus it doesnt make any sense to have your "karma" carry over to the next raid. Im against that.

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Scionti

Then it needs some sort if in game VOIP so you can at least express non hostile intent. That wiggle poo is insufficient.

On 12/10/2019 at 6:26 AM, p4nnus said:

A karma system is being thought about at BSG, but nothing certain has been said AKA its not been confirmed to happen in a certain implementation. 

Im strongly against scav karma system. The lore quite clearly explains that scavs are shady, greedy and opportunistic criminals that have "dog-eat-dog" rules. Thats pretty much no rules. 

You shouldnt trust anyone who is not your real friend in this game. I like it as it also makes the rare friendly encounters feel like sth special. The game is not supposed to be a happy playground of friendly people having fun after all.

Yeah, I remember the bandit skin. I had that and the hero skin on another server. It was removed even during the mod days as it penalized certain kind of gameplay. It was also unrealistic and stupid. Thats why nothing similar is implemented in DayZ and thats a good thing. 

In EFT every scav you play is a different person, thus it doesnt make any sense to have your "karma" carry over to the next raid. Im against that.

 

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Scionti
On 12/10/2019 at 6:26 AM, p4nnus said:

and thats a good thing.

Not sure if this bit is supposed to be ironic 

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p4nnus
2 hours ago, Scionti said:

Then it needs some sort if in game VOIP so you can at least express non hostile intent. That wiggle poo is insufficient.

Just so you know, VOIP is confirmed years a go and now weve got more recent info that its being planned for the next bigger update, though not set in stone yet. That would be in 3-4 months, Im guessing.

If you wanna know what features are planned and what problems are known to BSG, you should watch their podcasts etc.

1 hour ago, Scionti said:

Not sure if this bit is supposed to be ironic 

Its not. Having you look a certain way because you are evil or bad or opportunistic, whatever, is childish, unrealistic and stupid. Especially so in a game that goes for realism and in a game that puts you in a sandboxy environment with little rules.

Theres been less and less talk about a PMC karma system, Im hoping theyve abandoned the idea as theyve always knew it was pretty much impossible to implement in a reasonable way.

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PeterM

The solution is. Not need  any karma system implemented on scavs, but if scav shoot scavs, it should be punished by, not gaining any XP and hostile scav players should be not allowed to extract any loot. Then shooting other scavs would be not beneficial in any way. That's it, problem solved.

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kennyream66

The only thing that should be punished are players grouping up and killing them immediately. No player scavs should not be punished for finding another scav player in the field and choosing to kill them. They should definitely aggro the NPC's on the entire map though and not just surrounding. Kind of like going rogue.

 

But yeah, if I see you out there, I will kill you and take your loot. That is why this game is amazing.

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Scionti
15 hours ago, kennyream66 said:

No player scavs should not be punished for finding another scav player in the field and choosing to kill them. They should definitely aggro the NPC's on the entire map though and not just surrounding. Kind of like going rogue

You do realize these are contradictory statements right?

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kennyream66
5 hours ago, Scionti said:

You do realize these are contradictory statements right?

Yeah, I realize that now lol. To clarify, I don't consider aggroing the entire scav npc count as a punishment. This is something that should happen to adjust the style of play should you choose to kill a player or npc that is scav. They should never limit the amount of ways to play a game that shines on possibilities.

 

Killing someone you just grouped with is BS though. That shouldn't be allowed without harsh punishment as it ruins the idea to group with others (thus limiting ways to play for the other player).

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Scionti
6 hours ago, kennyream66 said:

Yeah, I realize that now lol. To clarify, I don't consider aggroing the entire scav npc count as a punishment. This is something that should happen to adjust the style of play should you choose to kill a player or npc that is scav. They should never limit the amount of ways to play a game that shines on possibilities.

 

Killing someone you just grouped with is BS though. That shouldn't be allowed without harsh punishment as it ruins the idea to group with others (thus limiting ways to play for the other player).

As it currently stands, it is insanely frustrating when playing Scav to have another Scav player just immediately open fire on your without so much as a word (well no VOIP so not like he has a choice) once he sees your movement is that of a player. For me that's immersion shattering as he is walking amongst the other scavs but immediately singles me out.

Maybe I just need to roleplay harder, like pretend before the events of Tarkov my Scav owed that Scav drug money or something, so he immediately shoots him. Idfk.

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Sonofsin

Start giving a HUGE timer debuff for anyone killing other scavs while on a scav raid . Least 1 hour

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Thakor

just assume every guy you see is going to try to kill you. no carebear mechanics needed.

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zack991

Nothing is needed, scavs in their very nature are not people you would ever turn your back on in reality. So why are people surprised that a scav which is a scavenger who has NO alliances with anyone kills them when your turn their backs. Scavs are not loyal to anyone other then the group you entered with. If you kill a AI scav then yea have bad karma hit them and have it effect their AI interaction for X number of games, have the AI target them for several games if they kill a AI scav till a cool off time has passed.

Edited by zack991

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