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d10sk0ur01

EFT full immersion,no respawn anymore thanks to hideout(...) development

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d10sk0ur01

TLDR in the bottom

Can also read another version here that was posted a month before:

a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/dmkijw/a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_dissonance/
The one I am copy pasting here is always on the same concept but I posted a month ago 1 month after the one posted in the link above: but got harassed and of course trolls are everywhere, moderation has really a hard job at protecting the forums from these people and rely more on self protection ... but when you have these people spamming under your posts like there was no tomorrow, all the power to them... no wonder we get trash games ... if that is the audience we keep supporting and allow to disturb passion, love for a game and for forum\discussion, respect... Now  this was just a preface\edit, below is the topic that was removed\deleted --->

a_more_hardcore_experience_menu_respawn_https://ibb.co/FDWGJ3C

https://ibb.co/t2PMJ2T

https://ibb.co/54vCZsD

Basically the idea is based on the fact that good games are rooted in layers: the more layers are well weaved together between them and they are many well crafted, the more the game is improving. However it is, needs to be consistent.

So the reason why I suggest this is because I want a more hardcore game, permadeath must not be punishing but I dnt wanna see the PMC that dies more times, shot in the head, loses a leg and is respawned. To me this needs to be improved and with the recent developments of Hideout (massive!) and what is coming with dragging\carrying wounded or dead, and what is already in the game this could really work and be interesting for the devs also in terms of retention (without making it a grind prison of course).

In terms of realism\hardcore\milsim the "Respawn" because skills are tied to the PMC is just narrative dissonance on drugs in such a realistic game. I understand "this is a game" but to say this to stop the conversation is just an excuse not to discuss. Is this Sekiro world?No, humans die once. (unless we discover that in Shipyard 5

Even in Hunt Showdown ("similar" game) your "PMC" dies once and it's done, you don't have him back (why? because there is another system in place, it's more nuanced and I wish Tarkov as it is early beta now, will consider to develop further as development is not done yet.read

Even if now this unrealistic feeling is being softened with the .12 with the 30% wounded effect, which feels like a shortcut to realism, and a time-buying solution for the devs I would like to see something that makes me feel, immersed in a realistic virtual experience, immersed from the menu to the fight and back to the menu after the fight, never breaking the flow. For this I would try to get rid to the silly dissonance in EFT especially present as u just got shot in the head or bled out with your beloved PMC, re-spawn feels like a simplified system when the game is very cool deep and complex instead and getting so more and more.

1-Introduce the layer of Safe house (aka Hideout) and make out of it a player (us) projection somehow like we were the managers of the Safe house not just a fighting as PMCs. Our POV will change, we are like in a TPP in the MENU. We "see things from above", as we are not anymore in the FPS experience, we see ourselves in third person (if you check the PMC\SCAVengers slots) unless we go to the market or in our hideout or in our firing range indeed.

2- Crucial parts of the suggestion: The Safe house will have to be integrated with the layer of the game we play in FPP (basically the majority of it), or in other words the fighting. Our behavior as for other things already happens will have to influence the Safe house Status\Standing, "fame". Regarding the skills? The skills will have to be separated per PMC (with different partial ratios depending on their level) and the main TREE skill we have now related magically to a PMC that dies, to be re-tied (it's connection need to be shifted - this is important to understand what I am suggesting) to the player, like it was DNA, the hideout class or school. The DNA\ the player will be owning the already existing Skill Tree like we behind keyboard and mouse were actually mastering those skills, not our avatar first hand as it is now. We are the ones who are developing, improving, only then transferring this to the PMC and Scavs fighting for us (controlled by us when we infiltrate in the AO).

3- A system of ratios will have to make the PMC or Scav (or whatever), depending on its level, to enjoy a different level of the PLAYER SKILLS tree (the "Safe house" skills, our own Skill tree that is the only one in the game and will stay so, will only have to shift). The skills will grow, sure, as they do now (a very nice system in place already), through the avatar "performance" on the field (we control that of course by fighting in FPP, yes I am just describing technically what we do), but the skills will improve for the player, there won't be PMC skill tree, the PMC, Scav or whatever will have a level, like a "synchronization" with the player, which will have to raise fast. Fully MIRRORING THE SKILLS OF THE PLAYER will be possible when e.g. the PMC (our avatar in Tarkov) gets to 100% mirroring of the Player skill tree, you need to train it , you need to raid, you can even receive (and will explain how) PMC at "100%" level already or fast learning ones, fast training Scavs... etc. This will also depend on other stats like explained in pics (just few examples). Example = "leading by example" ratio Standing = good or bad fame in Tarkovscape etc...

In our Safe house we will not have all PMC (but all could eventually become PMC, unless dismissed): however all of them will be "wearing" different ratios of the skills (the only skill tree=the player skill tree) we have developed as players and to which perspective I suggest the devs to shift the skill tree to, instead of now (PMC skill tree). Why this? When we die as PMC now it's totally unrealistic to keep the skills as we died as PMC.

As already said how much they are mirroring the Skill tree we have developed so far will depend on the PMC\Scav\avatar's LEVEL which will allow to "reproduce" those skills in game on a certain degree until full "synchronicity" is reached with max leveling. This degree cannot be slow improving unless frustration wants to be injected into the player (would be a bad idea). ---> e.g.: It could be that once passing a wall of EXP points gained,managing to extract 2 times, even time spent in Tarkov surviving (one of these or else) the avatar gets to 100% level and the player will feel that the avatar (PMC) will become him\herself: the player will surely grow attached to these avatars that reach MAX level, instead to be attached to the loot which kills actually the beauty of such a game and can generate dangerous negativity loops (which are ok in these kinds of games nowadays but can create destructive effects on the player base... detrimental for a healthy community building, irresponsibly addictive etc).

Sure, we will become pretty attached to the PMC. (potential negativity high if loss happens, still it will be a game, and not a senseless attachment to loot, which is NON SENSE and its' just copy cat to thousands of other games that base their appeal to status symbol\ cosmetics; by basing the attachment on the skill tree and hideout and story doing we can achieve with our coming and going PMC the game will create a healthy retention instead of an "lootocratic" addiction)

Again, as said few lines above this "fully mirroring of skill tree by PMC\avatar" can't absolutely take too long of course or could be too frustrating due to lenght of avatar average life 65% chance of death (generally speaking) happening at any moment.

Anyway it can stay an added challenge managing to run fully 100% skill tree mirroring avatars (which of course can only be PMC, as Scavs won't get there). This is a major element of immersion as you feel rewarded and tension as you would be "running YOURSELF" at this point, not anymore go in with a "half tied" avatar, but a fully connected to skill tree one: basically again it will feel like it's you. Before reaching that 100% of mirroring you will feel like you are "training" them. This could also lead to differentiate the tactics we have in the game, some might go in to reach a x amount of EXP or time spent and just extract because they just wanna reach 100% of Skills mirroring to be ready for another big fight to be fought with a fully developed avatar ... But something might get in the way of that process.. who knows?!

There might be PMC that come to our Safe house (not brought in from us directly) that are already 100% mirroring our skills, "as they are not training anymore", as our SAFE HOUSE STATUS is so high that we appeal 1 every 4 rounds (or every hour\s) a 100% mirror PMC.. But the thing is OUR SAFE HOUSE STATUS\Standing depending on our behavior on the battlefield will be DYNAMIC, it will change. This would put a serious spice to the game (another layer of personalization of the experience, feeling, immersion ... our menu will become "ALIVE" somehow like with this).

The rest of the entire system of skill un-learning and learning remains the same. (in case this wasn't clear)

-As a matter of fact the player will be able to play in AT LEAST in 2 different ways: A\\One is a complete rogue, against locals, the scav(engers), the armed scavengers etc and this will be more reliant on MONEY, looting hard and to appeal to safe house ppl will use money. This will add a lot of longevity to the game. You will be playing in a way for some time then resort to another way later on, also just for curiosity.. This could also relate to a "policy an entire clan of players might" because this could create even piled up layers of behaviors in terms of what these players will put up in the "flea market"... I think where this can get. Goosebumps. and it's simple, nothing strange needs to be added. Sure takes some time. So, as I was saying rogue way to play in this mechanic of the safe house is :you will be able to "buy the rate with which PMC come to your house" with money (simply because you loot more - consistency behavior-mechanic- lore- narrative no dissonance); In case you have no PMC coming to your Safe house you will use Scavs or just bribe, or make money offers. (the "rogue PMC safehouse way"...)

B\\ The other will be like a neutral or good standing PMC. USEC or BEAR whatever else might be there.ù You will be like healing more scavs, bringing them dead or alive to cover, dig them or take their documents\dog tags if PMC, will give them to UN office so the dear ones have something to mourn. (Scav dnt have dog tags) If you heal your partners, do not break ROE etc you will have bonus too. If you properly ask for cease fire if a scav fire on you.. etc.. There might be anything devs could develop here that can get into the STATUS \ Standing of your Safe house. However this will based on our behavior in the survival\fighting-scape we enter, healing, dragging to cover scavs, helping mates, giving meds to somebody, quest related the type of the ones chosen and completed.

Goes without saying that some gameplay sessions (thanks to this mechanic of the Safe house\healing\behavior in sessions) could help experiences of game be turned into "MEDEVAC" missions (so helping diversify the gameplay we face), pre planned or just improvised medevacs.. Just imagine how much Longevity the game and tension would generate. If the body is brought and saved or extracted corpse the fun is there anyway and the reward respectively higher and smaller would still be there working... (the entire suggested mechanic of this topic is about this "reward", status, and polish of dissonance the game for now has ... in that lobby of our Safe house, that I dearly believe could be a little more developed. The reward would be the Status of our Safe house, the new Scav we got, it's equipment we carried or just had to leave down .. the fun of the experience, the tension, emotions, feelings of such things. The immersion in the world and lore.

The entire suggestion entailing introduction of dragging bodies(...) recovering ppl items to give it to UN, or not just digging a grave? or else will also be able to be introduced with a little narrative\ lore story like; Bodies as a matter of fact, as of now, stay in Tarkov. Nobody "cleans" the battliefield...And as this game has a MMO flavor as devs have written, then they could introduce this new possibility for the sake of realism: "Corpses are rottening in tarkov and too many have been left behind; disease are spreading., we need to do something" (maybe in terms of level design also make this be met with a little design addition of really a few more bodies here and there already looted, just rottening (less loot at some point - helps balancing the game in some cases -) and that PMC (players) need \ can help to clean the streets, bring any proof to their dear ones, helping like this recognition of the bodies.

Our Safe house will also be open to (HARD) upgrades, money based or materials we buy mainly from shops 90% from there. -Slots are upgrade dependents. These are Hard "skills" of the safe house.

While, also playing in terms of retention of the player, the soft skills of the safe house, like the Status of our safe house towards other actors of the Tarkov-scape, will be dynamic, lowering going higher, being kept for longer time depending on who we live inside the Safe house: Let's pretend we dnt play for weeks, if we live many high level PMC inside the entire system will be stronger, more stable.. which is another interesting mechanic\dynamic to help those that worked hard to reach those PMC on top... reinforcing their work with all what I already explained like new scav getting full trained faster. The player will have other reasons to return to play the game anyway and make their decisions, decision making, shaping of how you play will be important.

https://escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/Hideout#Shooting_range

TLDR:

Devs should move beyond the PMC respawn way too basic arcade concept (please).

-Devs shld use hideout development at advantage of the immersion: developing hideout(safe house) hard and soft skill related to how we behave in game :

-Hideout will have some hard and soft skills in particular the STATUS\STANDING (crucial to the suggestion understanding) ---> this will be shaped by how we behave towards Locals (scavs), bodies, corpses, other allied or enemies (dragging bodies under cover, giving medicines, carrying ppl to exit safely extract them, and so on) - check pics

-Shift (just copy\move) the Skill tree from concept of being tied to the PMC (unrealistic having it there after death) to being bounded to us players, embedding it in a concept of "DNA"\Hideout\School.

-The avatars (PMC) usually won't start "mirroring" 100% the Skill tree but will do follow it with ratio dependent on the level reached (avatars level depends from many variables and won't have to be getting up to 100% after too much grind: like 2 extractions, time based, kills based, Experience accumulated based other Hideout related skill (to be created)

-Hideout stats condition will allow a very important thing to happen: explained in pics - we can get new PMC or as they knock every each time (depending on status defined on our behavior) we can also refuse PMC\scavs etc and also retire old ones (with related outcomes - you retire a old 100 level PMC - u get a plus of "learning faster" I called it "example" and also you get equipment and money back and else.

-Hideout will have PMC\Scav\Scav raider slots that depend on how we upgrade it from 2 to 3 to 8 slots ...

-Quests will have the chance to put Med evacs between their options and also these "med evacs" or corpse evacs (once the carry body is available\developed) will be also totally spontaneously happening in game (emergent gameplay) -If for some reasons you have no PMC you will have chance anyway to go find scavs, use money and so on (this is already in plan and released apparently) you will still be able to go in FPP (you) in training shooting range.

-VERY IMPORTANT: all this system will allow players to play in different ways, rogue? Ok as explained based on money, zero rules etc; otherwise Neutral or positive? More based on these stats and trying to work their STANDING WITH BEAR base or other bases in order to receive better PMC level and more often... as our can die. -99% of suggested things are already repositories in the game or just have to be moved or codes that are already in the game and need to be used with renaming elsewhere.

-Yes few character (model) design in the slots for different faces could be done. -The concept of dragging and carrying is under development and is crucial for the creation of the stats that are at the core of the suggestion (as they define what is the standing of our hideout)...

Players will not have difficulty great difficulty at accumulating avatars in their hideout in general, the difference will be instead in the quality of what (PMC) they manage to hold or get from the PMC related HQ (some might even get 100% or even TIER 1 equipment knocking at the door.

The whole thing is interesting also because it can help devs work more retention on players by keeping them engaged in a world from the firefight to the menu without excessive grind or excessive arcade feeling. Everything will feel like "WE ARE IN TARKOV" ...

Please, remove this respawn concept, it's very basic and sour in terms of development.

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JacksonBarret

After reading some of this.."interesting post" i've come to conclusion that you're new to the community of Tarkov.And after checking your profile i can confidently say you are.
Second what you just listed down here is border line ridiculous.This was written out of anger or annoyance for what happened in game or in the lobby.Or there could possibly be another reason.

Your suggestions make no sense and have no place here.Why?
You are new,so you don't know,Tarkov is HEVILY Lore based game,and i am the main lore guy in the EU region,that's my role here in BSG.The whole idea of this game is from it's own lore.The mechanics are SLOWLY adjusted to the game.

Suggestions you made?Med evacs,dragging bodies and giving them to UN or something like that? That's impossible in every aspect of this game.Special hideouts for rouges or whatever.

Tarkov is under lockdown,noone goes in or out.UN got i,under lock down.No vehicles,no personnel may enter or exit.
USEC and B.E.A.R Aren't supposed to fight eaach other,but that's a choice for everyone.
After getting disconnected everyone went rouge,some against their own,some went on their own.

I didn't bother reading everything because to be frank,this is TOO long and 0% research was done.And i don't want to sit and read through everything.

The ideas you gave aren't the best,nor will be the last ideas that are given to the devs.But you should realize that they will NEVER take your ideas,because it's their game,Nikita has Tarkov under his palm,it's his story,not ours.Weapons we can suggest,some minor things,but anything lore,faction,mechanic related.Don't expect it to be taken seriously. 

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d10sk0ur01

I don't expect nothing, nor I expect to be indexed from a mod or a user "because one is new"..
What are you publicly screaming?
It's like I am watching you and say.. mm I see you are fat, then you cannot be taken seriously because you have health problems or you can't take care of your own body.. what is this trash? I would never do that nor should you. If I quote that thing it doesn't mean u are cooperating with me. If a statement of yours is quoted it doesn't mean u are with me in this... it's just a quote.

I expect respect and then discussion. The ideas are there and are not lore or anything complicated. It's a suggestion corner. That's all. I don't scream I don't do nothing. You are screaming hate with that post like putting your arms forward almost through the screen. Take it easy, it's a bunch of reasoned suggestions that I make to make the game succeed in terms of realism. If you want to silence me because u want a sweed, soft RPG with guns.. yet another the division, I understnad why you are acting like this. But putting mouth in the face of people thinking different deeper or wider than you will not make you or your pack more mature.

Accept suggestions whoever posts them. Internet was made because experience doesn't count, what count is respectful participation and suggesting something and even very very in detail I am not direspecting anyone, maybe just your conservative attitude and a suggestion there too: change it.

Edited by d10sk0ur01

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d10sk0ur01

I undertand people don't want to use their brain much (averagely speaking... in game environment u don't get great minds in general, like Tameem Antoniades, or Cory Barlog .. these ppl are rare)... but I am speaking of players, not designers too, even if players sometimes are also designers potentially, if you want to understand in one sentence this:

Just allow pmc to have a name and knock at your door depending on your STANDING in the tarkov scape, (different levels of standing: rogue, neutral, positive) will give different play styles and outcomes: rogue will use much more money to do things because in tarkov he has no mercy, neutral is someone who does both but in  general he\she is respectful as a player of what he\she finds in front of  him\her self in game.
Positive is a very respectful player ... heals scavs, and so on, doesn't kill same faction pmcs etc...

Standing is given from others things too I have explained or designers can imagine by themselves.

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JacksonBarret

You are still on about this?And you still understand the whole ordeal of this game,or the whole idea it's being made off of.But that's fine i don't expect you to know.If you wanted to know,you would know.That's why nobody really wants to bother with taking in your.."ideas" should I put.I apologize for being the one to crush your dreams of your own made game with things from other games such as reputation.If you follow the news,if you follow notes,if you follow the game in general,you would know.

You do you,i'm nowhere near the person who will stop you,or let alone bother.My position has nothing to do with my statement,the fact i was with the game's story,lore and company for 9 years does.In future,you might want to make your arguments more constructive,logical,and with meaning instead of dishing out whatever came to your mind for being rejected.

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