Jump to content
vekongmaster

Skill Progression Exhaustion is Lame as Hell...Remove it!

Skill Progression Exhaustion???  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about the new Skill Progression Exhaustion?

    • It's very good! I love it!
      31
    • Omfg it sucks balls! It's so lame and stupid!
      74
  2. 2. What should BSG do to this new Skill Progression Exhaustion?

    • Keep it that way!
      31
    • Remove that sh*t completely for f*ck sake! Bring back the old skill system!
      74


Recommended Posts

PsyanideMcBaine
On 1/4/2020 at 5:05 AM, TalRasha said:

We need a system that prevents skills boosting, cant say current system is the best, but its better than no system.

It doesn't prevent it though. since yesterday (as the servers are still playing up and raids are unstable, having lost 2 loadouts to it from disconnects and crashes) I've been cheesing recoil control. Now, as someone who joined as the patch hit, I don't know how easy it was before the patch, all I know is that even with exhaustion, cheesing is still far far far more efficient at leveling than just playing normally, nothing has changed, not really, it's just making it more arduous for all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Underhook

So, currently 2 thirds of the voters want the new system scrapped.  Does that mean that approximately 2 thirds of players were previously exploiting the system?  Or is it that players are annoyed that others exploited and now we cant catch up to them.  Bit of both?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sa_PT

 Do this after a wipe, it´s not fair for people just starting the game. This is so obvious that it should not be needed to explain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Slayitquick
52 minutes ago, Sa_PT said:

 Do this after a wipe, it´s not fair for people just starting the game. This is so obvious that it should not be needed to explain.

I can't emphasize the "we shouldn't have to explain this to you" part enough. It's not fair to implement this change without a soft skills wipe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidOz
Posted (edited)

These passive skills are a major turn off as a new player who has good aiming habits and experience... like enough to leave the game.

As a new guy, you already get outplayed by the insane amount of learning you have to do, which is fine and how it should be.

Having the gunplay be unfair with the SAME gun, SAME attachments, same armor, because someone is playing longer and cheesed/grinded himself significantly less recoil is mind boggling to me. He has better mods, better guns, more experience, etc. this stuff should make a diffrence. You should not lower your recoil with stats, the GUNPLAY, PVP should be fair and square if you can afford the same gear as your opponent. Holy duck it annoys me so much.

The recoil I see  on YouTube on these dudes is literally inexistent. I watched their videos and built the same gun from one of their how to videos, it's not even comparable. Their game is 1000times more easy than mine. Even though I have top500, and contract experience in other shooters like CS:GO and OW. No matter what I do, I can't achieve the 0 recoil state these guys with max RC have. Why the duck is this a thing? Because it's an RPG? You hold on to this, and simply thinking clearly will already tell you that many people will stop eventaully because even if they have the same gear as their opponents after they earned the cash, they are still in a massive disadvantage.

I'm not trying to flex, this is actually important to me because I do enjoy the game. But in order to make this statement have the weight it needs I have to put out my experience in shooters. For the love of god, REMOVE these stupid stats or get anything related to gunfights out of it. 

They can be pain resistent, walk faster and longer, jump like an NBA Star, be bleed resistant, have 1 extra arm it's fine. But stuff like less recoil just by nature is WRONG, especially when it's this much... (NO, don't LOWER it, fking remove it.) and will make me eventually uninstall the game because I simply dislike having unfair gun battles and I can assure you it will put off many newplayers which eventually will end up in a dead game or a game with a very small community. If you are happy with your favorite game not reaching it's full potential then by all means, lie to yourself and defend this stupid system. But beeing a good EFT Player, with huge ressources, will mean alot more if this game has a bigger playerbase. It's simple Psychologie, the bigger the game, the more perceived value/prestige you will feel by actually being good at it.

Having a system up where I have to stand there and reload a gun for hours to get points. Having to stand there and unload a glock and ammo worth 3.5million into a wall just to have a fair game sounds fun???

I should be getting into this game, and be like: damn dude, this guy has an insane decked out M4. And dream of that weapon until I can finally afford it as my reward. Without having thoughts: "Okay I got the weapon and mods, I managed to get the cash, but it's still MASSIVELY unfair because he has maxed stats and I don't" This takes out any motivation to play this game. Grinding these stats is not fun, like not at all and frankly it takes ages to do so.

If this needs to be a thing in the game, give us an NPC where we can spend money to get trained in these skills. It takes forever to level this stuff. Make it expensive, so high level or good players can manage to get maxed out faster. But atleast this way it's more fun and fair.

TL;DR: Make gunfights fair. If someone has the exact same weapons+mods and armor then have both players have the same recoil. There shouldn't be passive stats giving an advantage like this less recoil stat. If Person A can afford the same loadout as Person B, they should be identical in fighting power. RIght now, as a new player, you can dream of these 0 recoil laser gameplay you see on YouTube even though you have the same gun and same mods. And no, this is off putting, it's not something worth playing towards. This is not the right way to motivate you to progress your character. It creates bad situations and will force people off the game. The recoil lessens to such an insane degree, the guy with maxed out RC is literally capable of making moves the new dude isn't capable of doing even if they had the same exact same loadout. Remove it, it will help the game in the long run to maintain more competitive players.

If this needs to be a thing in the game, give us an NPC where we can spend money to get trained in these skills. It takes forever to level this stuff. Make it expensive, so high level or good players can manage to get maxed out faster. But atleast this way it's more fun and fair.

Edited by solidOz
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PsyanideMcBaine
7 hours ago, solidOz said:

For the love of god, REMOVE these stupid stats or get anything related to gunfights out of it. 

I see your point but the reason I'm personally not in favor of any skills being removed is because not every soldier is equal. Even with basic training, some are more effective at soldiering than some and having a skill system that reflects that reality, I mean you'd expect say, a  SAS/SEAL operator, to have better recoil control, weapon experience, fitness etc etc, compared to a guy who just got out of basic unless they where in some way preparing for it before hand.

 

 

7 hours ago, solidOz said:

If this needs to be a thing in the game, give us an NPC where we can spend money to get trained in these skills.

this is a good idea and I mirror it with my previous suggestion of ''out of raid/downtime'' passive training of a skill, possibly even persisting at a slower rate while you're offline, because an active player would still be able to level it faster so you wouldn't be able to do the EVE online thing of selecting a skill to train and walking away for a month. Something does need to change, but Nikita has stated these are just being trialed and they are subject to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
p4nnus
Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2020 at 11:24 PM, solidOz said:

Having the gunplay be unfair with the SAME gun, SAME attachments, same armor, because someone is playing longer and cheesed/grinded himself significantly less recoil is mind boggling to me. He has better mods, better guns, more experience, etc. this stuff should make a diffrence. You should not lower your recoil with stats, the GUNPLAY, PVP should be fair and square if you can afford the same gear as your opponent. Holy duck it annoys me so much.

Its mostly the mods that do it. If you havent noticed, EFT controls most of the recoil for you. After approx 4-6 bullets of full auto the automatic fire stabilizes. Its to simulate that you are a soldier who knows his way with guns, you will only get to know them even better as you become a more seasoned operator. The skills mostly lessen the first 4-6 bullets spray pattern, but it literally doesnt matter at all.

Also, EFT is supposed to be unfair. If you didnt find this out before you pre-ordered and gained access to the beta test, you can only blame yourself for that. It also only makes sense that you get better at something you do a lot. Anyone who has served in armed forces or done a lot of hunting/competitive shooting can confirm this to you. When the game already does most of the recoil control for you, it has WAY less impact on the game than you think. Good players can also aim against the recoil so that it seems like they have zero recoil. 

For what it matters, Id like the game to have a proper recoil system. Like one with no automatic recoil control. Theres things like barrels heating and that affecting your firing thats gonna be implemented, so this kind of mechanic doesnt really play well with such realistic simulations of the actual firearm.

Edited by p4nnus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
p4nnus
On 1/7/2020 at 5:08 AM, Sa_PT said:

Do this after a wipe, it´s not fair for people just starting the game. This is so obvious that it should not be needed to explain.

Dont worry, its not gonna happen at all. These people are just ranting as they cant progress as fast as they used to. In release ready EFT the progression is gonna be multiple times slower anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheShankShow

At this point (before full release) I honestly don't care if they want to experiment - but the reality is that without resetting the stats om everyone, every person that did not cheese the skills already for whatever reason (new player, casual player, just not interested in cheesing) has a disadvantage now that they will not be able to catch up to in terms of leveling their stats until the next wipe.

You can always outskill and outshoot anyone but I think there shouldn't even be an argument that implementing those changes without a skill reset is completely and utterly fucked. 

Also the timing is great - now you got all the new player influx, they google how to level those skills and find out that they start of at a natural disadvantage + the skillgap. Dunno how smart that is, but that really is not my concern. 

For what it is worth, until the next wipe I have an excuse for every time I get killed. Thank god. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wenham

TBH I see no reason to stop people from cheesing the level up system if we are still on beta, why? Because it gets reset eventually so all the time you spend cheesing is eventually gone and skills NEED to be tested on their elite level anyways, plus, a change like this one has to be implemented on a fresh wipe, all of the people who cheesed their skills get to keep their op stats while new people has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to even decide if they want to spend their time having fun or cheesing skills, maybe if you didn't have to do extremely dumb poo to level your skills and gain it at a fairly decent rate (considering it's a beta and you'll get reset) people wouldn't even bother to cheese the skills, or maybe nerf skills so they add a small bonus that's not worth spending hours and hours getting or just remove it from the game

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
p4nnus
On 1/12/2020 at 4:06 PM, Wenham said:

TBH I see no reason to stop people from cheesing the level up system if we are still on beta, why? Because it gets reset eventually so all the time you spend cheesing is eventually gone and skills NEED to be tested on their elite level anyways, plus, a change like this one has to be implemented on a fresh wipe, all of the people who cheesed their skills get to keep their op stats while new people has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to even decide if they want to spend their time having fun or cheesing skills, maybe if you didn't have to do extremely dumb poo to level your skills and gain it at a fairly decent rate (considering it's a beta and you'll get reset) people wouldn't even bother to cheese the skills, or maybe nerf skills so they add a small bonus that's not worth spending hours and hours getting or just remove it from the game

The devs dont want information about max level gameplay from people who got there by abusing the mechanics. Sure they want to see how these elite level skills work, but more importantly they need to know how fast people can get there and how, without abusing the mechanics. Thats why are they doing measures against cheesing as its not something they want data of, its quite obvious, right? Theres plenty of people who get these levels by fair gameplay as they just play so much.

6 hours ago, vekongmaster said:

Finally someone with brain :D thank you @Wenham for being a smart player and a costumer of BSG!

I heard a rumor that BSG will keep wiping their players, even after the game is officially released. Can you imagine how frustrating that would be? The devs are kinda psycho, they love torturing their players so bad.

Dear Nikita & all BSG devs, you

More like finally someone who agrees with what you say. It doesnt take much of a brain to understand that these measures wouldnt be made if what Wenham says would be considered "smart".

EFT is not developed for the majority. Listen to this for like 5 mins. They know theres a lot of casual players coming in. They want to change them and not the other way around. The game is still developed for the target audience, people who enjoy HC FPS'. How does this connect to the discussion? Your idea of having the majority to decide how the game is deceloped is not gonna happen.

Hahahaha.. slowing down the  progression, you say! Oh my goodness how ignorant you are. The progression is WAYYY faster right now than what it will be in the released game. Please educate yourself on what kind of game EFT is gonna be, in the end progression will be like 200-500% slower than it is now, if the rumored after release wipes wont happen.

After release wipes were mentioned by Nikita AFAIK, as a way of keeping the game fresh after release. I doubt that its gonna happen, it would make the long-term gameplay loop less rewarding. Most of the time BSG has said that wipes wont happen after release and this was mentioned only once. I doubt that this is nothing else than a thought. 

Edited by TheColdVein
Do not use profanity on this forum!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Galehaut

I'll just repost my opinion from reddit.

TL:DR- EFT is in an open beta test ; we already tested Strength skill progression. It's broken. Now let us test pvp balance at Max strength (+ other skills for test purpose) for the remaining of the time before the next wipe. get that juicy extra data while you can.

I've been testing games for more than 20 years now. A Beta test is usually accelerated by giving the testers some debug tools to help them bypass certain state of the game or to create certain conditions to test specific things. What is there to test with skills in Tarkov ? First comes the progression. Testing the skill progression over time is fundamental to balance them.

Now with that said ; we all know that Strength progression is horrible and broken. There's nothing more to test here about it until they actually change the progression itself again. With a wipe coming in about 2-3 months, it's brutal to force new players to train such a skill via ''Exploits''.

The 2 most used methods are people wacking each other for hours on end and others ''Watching movies'' while pressing W overweight.

If i'd be in a Closed Beta test, I'd just max my Strength and other skills since the progression was already tested and that i now need to test the bonus viability and balance in a pvp context. What happens to the pvp meta when all the players are maxed ? Those questions are very important to know and should be asked and tested right now in my opinion.

I'm not even gonna mention here about how these skills are fundamental to any activities in the game. For Strength specifically, we're not talking about 1 important bonus here but 3 at least. Jump height + Movement Speed + Grenade throw distance. Movement speed permits you to reach high loot area before anyone and to flee from fights safely since you know that they'll never be able to catch you back.

(i already know that some people will be angry by this post ; the people who grinded their skills. It's a beta, and there's a wipe coming in anyway. You could use that max skill practice right now against evenly tooled opponents instead.)

Right now ; i feel like this whole situation is a deal breaker. I've been trying to progress for the past week and it's so slow that i feel like just abandoning the game until the next wipe. I'll never be able to play with a maxed skill until then and i'd feel stupid just trying to level them naturally when everyone and their mother exploited them in the first place. i'll have some fun learning the maps in offline mode with the gear i already got instead.

I'm all about Hardcore games ; but not about wasting my time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheColdVein

#Locked. Reason: We do not allow rants. This subject has been posted many times and you are to use the search function as stated in the rules. 

  1. There will be NO global wipes after release. Not unless there is some major reason to--there won't be any. You will, however, be able to manually wipe if you choose. 
  2. You may not understand the method of testing the skills, but there is a reason, only the devs know. Nothing else can really be stated.

Thanks!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2