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Elder_Drake

Thoughts on Seasonal Wipes

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Elder_Drake

I have heard rumblings that Nakita is considering wipes after launch for "seasons" and have seen that echoed by at least one Sherpa on the boards and I have to say that the thought of wipes after launch is depressing as can be. I understand that people finish everything and get bored, but is the solution to have us repeat the same stuff over and over because I've been doing that for 2 years and it is not fun. I simply tell myself there is new content and mechanics so lets go and leave it be with a nice fresh start to check it all out while giving the team fresh metrics to develop the game, but after launch? No thank you.

An idea I had, if this happens, to mitigate the impact while still keeping things fresh would be to implement say a Prestige system akin to Payday 2 where maybe special skills and/or clothing options unlock every Prestige level (hit level 40 or 50 and reset) to act as an incentive to reset. There are a lot of ideas to add to that system that go from special base unlocks, to special traders, and so much more. Or if we are reset let us keep our skills where they are at or worse case halve them. The thought of leveling these damn skills every "season" is demoralizing as I am a family man and do not have the time to work this game like a job.

My .02 and happy hunting out there gents.

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DrBloom

I think it comes down to how far they space the wipes, I would imagine its gonna be a pretty decent amount of time between wipes, definitely not like it is now.

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bulldog1986

You didn't hear the whole story then. Nik mentioned having a separate character that would seasonally wipe alongside your permanent character.

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DrBloom

Wouldn't that end up like Diablo though? where everyone just plays seasonal and the 1% still play normally?

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Hamm

season wipes are just as dumb as wipes now. 

why would i want to level up a PMC and do all the quests just for them to reset it every season? I just did the Kappa grind for the first time and i will never do it again til they stop wiping. But if they think its a good idea to do wipes every season then they are delusional. If youre bored of not doing the garbage quests then they can reset there account themselves whenever they want. Others shouldnt be forcefully wiped because some streamers think its a good idea. I mean not all of us have 16 hours a day to play.

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sYs

@Hamm Just to clarify he explains basilicy the system diablo has.

 

Seasons are only available to freshly created characters who must be leveled all the way from level 1 after the season begins. Seasonal characters have a separate stash, gold and trader ranks., starting fresh and completely clear when the season begins.

For successfully completing season goals players are rewarded with cosmetics or whatever. 

 

Your main character is not impacted. 

Edited by sYs

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Hamm
15 minutes ago, sYs said:

@Hamm Just to clarify he explains basilicy the system diablo has.

 

Seasons are only available to freshly created characters who must be leveled all the way from level 1 after the season begins. Seasonal characters have a separate stash, gold and trader ranks., starting fresh and completely clear when the season begins.

For successfully completing season goals players are rewarded with cosmetics or whatever. 

 

Your main character is not impacted. 

Thanks for explaining.

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sYs
3 minutes ago, Hamm said:

Thanks for explaining.

yes and i forget to mention separate matchmaking for them too. 

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LoginTaken

Considering that the flee-market is wipe dependent......

Considering that the meta can only be limited via wipe.....

Considering new players only have a chance if they on level playing fields with others at least for a short time....

 

Wipes are expected and have been expected. Game is going to have a wipe system, it needs a wipe system. The devs are going to need to design/choose one that helps maintain the game play.

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SappaZ

I don't know if I agree with the idea of needing wipes to have a healthy game. When I try advertising this game to my friends or try getting existing players back their reasoning for staying away is the fact that they don't have time to grind only to have everything deleted a few months later. No one I know is worried about over geared players. They're perfectly fine throwing AP rounds into a shotgun or BP into an SKS.

 

As for the flea market, they'll just have to adjust and find a balance, plenty of RPG games have fully functional player run economies.

 

Not to mention that the devs are making skill leveling harder, adding levels to the hideout, and a whole new questline.

 

I don't think this game can sustain constant, even yearly, wipes. The majority of the playerbase does not want it what so ever.

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AdhesiveTeflon
1 hour ago, LoginTaken said:

Considering new players only have a chance if they on level playing fields with others at least for a short time....

That can be said for any game where grinding and leveling up unlocks equipment.

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LoginTaken
10 minutes ago, AdhesiveTeflon said:

That can be said for any game where grinding and leveling up unlocks equipment.

True, cause its true.

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syntaxxl

Ofc it isn't fun, but it's made for us to understand if the current wipe is good or not.
When the game fully-launches we are probably getting wiped again, and it's better to know NOW and not later - if the game needs or doesn't need something.

I also don't like the wipes, but they are something that we need, so that's why they exist.

(and ofc to bring players back)

Edited by syntaxxl
+text
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5point5sixGUY

There are a lot of ways they could alter the current game to make it wipe free. They can make tons of items found in raid only that aren't sellable on the market. They can make higher tier items very rare. They can make items cost more. They can add more levels to the traders to make the items harder to aquire etc... The way it is now, in a matter of days basically everyone that chooses to runs around in top level gear. 98% of the players 98% of the time (figure of speech) should be using low level guns and armor and ammo with the occasional super geared guy that you might run into. Instead of getting happy when you exit a raid with a backpack full of all kinds of things, you should be happy to exit the raid with 20 bullets and a bottle of water. (figure of speech) They can slow the game WAY down if they want to, and it'll be just as fun, especially when you have the rare opportunity to go in like Rambo.

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DrBloom
48 minutes ago, 5point5sixGUY said:

There are a lot of ways they could alter the current game to make it wipe free. They can make tons of items found in raid only that aren't sellable on the market. They can make higher tier items very rare. They can make items cost more. They can add more levels to the traders to make the items harder to aquire etc... The way it is now, in a matter of days basically everyone that chooses to runs around in top level gear. 98% of the players 98% of the time (figure of speech) should be using low level guns and armor and ammo with the occasional super geared guy that you might run into. Instead of getting happy when you exit a raid with a backpack full of all kinds of things, you should be happy to exit the raid with 20 bullets and a bottle of water. (figure of speech) They can slow the game WAY down if they want to, and it'll be just as fun, especially when you have the rare opportunity to go in like Rambo.

The only issue with all of that is you push the gap between the newbies and the end game players further apart, making it even harder on the new guys, no doubt resulting in more players leaving early on.

There is no real way to balance a long term game on both sides of this coin without wipes or constant content which allows players to once again be on the same level from time to time (much like expansions in MMOs). 

The argument could be made that you level bracket off matchmaking or base it off gross amount of money earned or gear or whatever the heck you wanted, however, this isn't realistic (I know the game isn't trying to be 100% realistic but brackets take away from the unknown) and no doubt exploitable by players. Not to mention this would water down the already long queue times for some servers/regions.

The system Diablo runs with seasons and a main "non-seasonal" character is decent, although not many people really play the non-seasonal content and always just jump into the next season as they appreciate the challenge of starting new. People are always gonna be like "but I don't want to waste my time and put in so much to have it all wiped" which is exactly what people said before seasons were implemented in Diablo.

I personally would be fine with seasons in Tarkov, however, like I said before it would have to be the right amount of time between each season. I think a lot of people hear the word season or seasonal and automatically think it would be like it is now, wiping every few months as a new patch hits. I assume it would be much longer then that before each season, however, once again where to do set the goal posts? Some people are gonna be fine with 5 months, others 12 and the hardcore lads with maybe 2 or 3, its just so hard to find the balance.

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Yeavo

The way I understood Nikitas intentions is that there is going to be two separate EFT gamemodes or experiences with separate matchmaking. One with character wipes and another without wipes (AKA permanent). This is the best way to approach the issue. Those who don't want their progress seasonally wiped can play their permanent characters against other permanent characters. And those who enjoy periodically starting a fresh run can play with people like them.

I will be playing with wipes and resets because that keeps the game fresh for me. With time I predict the seasonal wipe side of EFT will grow in popularity and permanent world will slowly whither away in terms of player counts. But its important to have that side for those who enjoy it.

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Iceblaidd

I wouldn’t mind seasonal wipes but I would want some kind of something persistent to carry between them. Like Hideout upgrades or something big like the Kappa container. I don’t think that would be game breaking and it would be nice to have a slight boost for being a dedicated player. I certainly wouldn’t want to grind out the same tasks over and over for the same goal every time. Just make it so if you already have Kappa you just get a bunch of XP at the end or something. It would also be cool if player level persisted between wipes so it can kind of be a show of how long or dedicated of a player you are. 

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ShiroTenshi

The only time 'Seasonal Wipes' were mentioned was when they were throwing around ideas of possible ways to do it. No confirmation at all. And even then, it was said these would be optional with some sort of reward (cosmetic most likely) for those who opted in so they can be distinguished. 

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Linoceros

I think seasons are an actual imperative in keeping the game fresh. Anyone who disagrees with the idea of a season can continue to enjoy playing a static "non-ladder" where you've accumulated such a large amount of wealth that every action you take is essentially meaningless, and the risk/reward thrill of the game is no longer at play. That's your personal preference. But I don't drink flat beer.

If you have no former experience of why seasons, or ladders, or resets make games like this enjoyable, then maybe you should try one before you complain about the wipes, or the possibility that they will continue. Games where a healthy economy is central to the balance and fun-factor of playing said game are harmed by not having an expiration date on them.

  • Eventually, the economy becomes flooded with loot, and equipment is no longer closed off to those who can afford it, or risk losing it. The price of everything inevitably starts to fall closer and closer to what the average vendor price is.
  • When everything is wiped the playing field is as leveled out for everyone as it's ever going to be again. This is where people's relative skill levels and knowledgeability can really shine. Every decision becomes critical. How you spend your time, what you do with your wealth. How you choose your loadouts, what you save, throwaway, etc. Certain items are much more initially sought after. Which merchants are you going to target first? What maps are you going to focus on in particular?
  • Different play-styles are much more viable than they will be later on. A slow, methodical, safer play-style will more reliably net you experience and preserve your load-out than a fast, no fucks given, charge at a specific room/area/cache etc and extract ASAP that later becomes the meta. 
  • RNG becomes much more meaningful. Random luck is much more significant. Finding an extremely useful key early on can give you access to loot/choke points/vantages that others won't be able to access for long periods of time if they aren't so lucky, or only for a very large expense later down the road.

Impermanence gives the game life. This is the main draw for ladder resets in ARPGS like Diablo ii and PoE.

If anything, we should have more options. Not just two leagues like in PoE and Diablo, but various kinds of leagues. Those that span mere weeks, to many months, to a year even. Maybe there's a different goal to each of them. The first to find a certain item, eliminate every Scav boss, or etc. Have a leaderboard or ladder tied to them, and offer in-game cosmetics as rewards. 

Edited by Linoceros

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Learnding
On 1/6/2020 at 10:27 AM, Hamm said:

season wipes are just as dumb as wipes now. 

why would i want to level up a PMC and do all the quests just for them to reset it every season? I just did the Kappa grind for the first time and i will never do it again til they stop wiping. But if they think its a good idea to do wipes every season then they are delusional. If youre bored of not doing the garbage quests then they can reset there account themselves whenever they want. Others shouldnt be forcefully wiped because some streamers think its a good idea. I mean not all of us have 16 hours a day to play.

Because when the game is released and you finally realize how boring the game is with your max out stash maxed gear entirely filled stash all quests done and infinite amount of positive cash flow there's nothing to work towards other than just killing people, and at that point just go play COD.

Seasonal Wipes would be a fantastic idea for the sake of the player base.  Otherwise large amount of people will just quit based on the virtue of literally nothing to do.

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YellowDrax
4 hours ago, Learnding said:

Because when the game is released and you finally realize how boring the game is with your max out stash maxed gear entirely filled stash all quests done and infinite amount of positive cash flow there's nothing to work towards other than just killing people, and at that point just go play COD.

Seasonal Wipes would be a fantastic idea for the sake of the player base.  Otherwise large amount of people will just quit based on the virtue of literally nothing to do.

I completely agree. And what about new players? If there were no wipes, in a year or two, new players would be by far the minority. People would be going around trying to play with low tier gear, to be facing players with impenetrable armor who snipes them with thermals from the other side of the map. Plus, the economy would be utterly screwed when every player has so much money that everything that doesn't come from a vendor would be traded in millions.

In the end, the whole point of the game is gear fear. If there is no wipes, gear won't be an issue and Tarkov won't be scary. In saying that, missions should be replaced or maybe make some things not wipe. Like vendor levels, gamma cases, the hideout and so on. While I like doing raids for gear, I don't like having to do stupid quests repeatedly. Or trying to gather random stuff for my hideout.

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