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d10sk0ur01

Will the game be made non bullet sponge as it is now?

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d10sk0ur01

Please, don't answer me, you don't wanna have fun, or you have not experience with bullets etc.
The game is simply filled with too much RPG bullshit that makes it unrealistic.
There are thousands of disabled people for 1 shot, I say 1 shot of any gun, not to say a rifle. Even military deployed just need one bullet .. what I said?! One fragment going in the wrong place and you are done.

 We have a game here, for sure, it has to stay a game, but if we wanna have the claim respected of "feeling" the combat, feeling the weapon and then we have totally UNREALISTIC damage, and bullet sponge and behavior that are completely OUT OF THIS WORLD then why immersing the player in something that is not immersive?
The answer is, you need to test the game so you made it handholding. Ok.

But can there be an official confirm that this won't be the game? It's too easy. I dress up like level 4 or above like a navy seal or an explosive ordenance disposal (non sense! and move like a butterfly) soldier and then I spend those IRL 40 minutes or less which in game are around 5- 7 hours in a heavily crowded from dangers place...

Ok... but what happens is that People wearing these fantasy helmets with "bullet repellent" glass and arms that work as a 60 + 60 bullet absorption without really not big penalty, especially if under pills, plus the 80+ damage protection from vests, + the hit box... Are you kidding me?

 

The system is not consistent. It's a huge POOL of points that make this a warhammer fest, dice and pen and paper RPG. You said that the RPG elements were light and that the combat was combat.
If I am a scav, I see first a fully kitted player, I don't wanna see this guy once I hide again to ambush or hit him running towards "where I may be" totally careless just because "THEY CAN ABSORB" so much and EVEN THE HEAD SHOT is gonna offer a 2 3 4 chance..

At this point you know what I am talking about.
It's frustrating, it's made for people that can't stand to lose and you need to make people that know how to play the combat the tactics, the bullet damage lose just because.. you need to make the game accessible... This is what would happen if this gets released, a game that wanted to make you feel. but anybody can get in this bulletsponge fest.

I understand that beta testing is long it will take maybe 2 or 3 years before a non premature release, but hey, even if we are testing at least respect the non EOD version and leave us something, at least do something for the realism and make it harder. You risk to falsify the expectations OF WAY TOO MANY people that just buy the game because it's fun and then who actually was supposed to be the TARGET of this game is kicked out because you find more profit from average commercial type of gamers...

Is this game realistic or it's just another the division bullet sponge fest?
Ok .. the boss ok, but hey. this can't be also with players, with scavs...

I had a scav getting 5 bullets (It was a scav player) and still live and kicking.. It's not possible. If I hit first, it's done. Especially if you are not wearing a fkn vest, you are done. There is not way the game goes around and asks me for more than 2 bullets to kill somebody I surprised from behind. I am talking of 366 rounds , not rubber bullets.

If in game there are rounds that just randomly keep you alive because bullets go through your body like nails would do through the skin and  get out ok... but I mean.. this happens like once every  100 cases, it doesn't happen like with every bullet. Bullets do damage and give u a shock.. if u are hit on the back u are done... what is this thing? It feels like we are palying all under DEEP drug effects, it's not possible that I hit somebody 5 times and they are all right, they operate the reload with ease .. all is perfect..

Come on... let's work on this too, it seriously worries me to see such strange things. I understand why people like fair tx or smoke shoot at the head. But hey.. we got hit box at the head too.. come on!! U can't give that too there. Protect the people that dnt get a attack of panic when they lose, I really don't care if I lose but if I am in position to win u can't put me at the same level of a person who is in disadvantage... and scavs, can't absorb without a single protection 5+ bullets before dying...
I had the registration happened... there are really strange cases happening in the game...

 

I had this enemy (PMC) in Customs on the road to the dorms I saw him and moved in the woods left he run right on the other side then I hide and... once he\ she saw me, well he\she came for me because he\she knew that even if I would have shot him\her it would have not been enough... and just came for me. He\she did not know where I was and I managed to make even 2 hits! I saw the blood. And 1 hit was even from the side so EXTREMELY dangerous and painful. But still I got ID and killed by THAT one behaving like in an UNREALISTIC world. U cannot push somebody that is waiting for you.. it's just something that THIS GAME that is at the moment super handholding is permitting... but this cannot be real in real life. I shot you I hit u 2 times and u keep coming forward.

What are you doing BSG...?? Come on...

Edited by d10sk0ur01
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Thormato

with the next big update there will be armors plates, which increase the realism by quiete a bit, because you are only armored where the plates actually are

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polarticus

this game is surprisingly bullet spongey, especially this far into a wipe. 

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Sir_Mossy

There are two major things that need to be adjusted to make the game feel a lot more realistic. That would be the following.

1. Addition of armor zones. This would make sure that wearing high level armor doesn't give you invulnerability from lower grade ammo, but that it protects certain regions only.

2. Making blacked out limb damage more substantial. Ever notice how you can shoot someone in the leg 20+ times with pistol caliber rounds and they still live? It's because damage dispersion when getting shot in blacked out limbs is really bad. They need to drastically boost the amount of damage taken while having a blacked out limb so you can't tank 15-20 leg shots without dying. 

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d10sk0ur01

I wanna be constructively contradicted but reading that ... I am not crazy is also feeling good. I don't wanna sound "negative" but on the topic "this deep into a reset" it can become BSpongy is not a good reason and should not be connected to the issues although I understand the logic of what u say there *polarticus.*

I read everybody as I want everybody else to do too, read the comments of others. I just don't see why there should be a reason for "being bullet spongy" because of being this deep. I think this more connected on the game being handholding because they need not to frustrate those that cannot shoot well, or give a chance to everybody , also those that don't know how to move inside the maps.. But If I hit you sometime or hit the enemy, sometime it really gets frustrating on the other hand seehing one needs like 3-4 T45N bullets to go down. I mean.. it's a bullet.

I think they need to reduce the RPG and BEND IT TO THE purpose of REAlism and also consistent FPS milsim, otherwise we really are going into a World of Warcraft.

I am really glad, and I hope I have not visions, that I see others see the same.
I have downloaded the AMMO that I need to use and I am gonna sell anything else that gets into my hands. I listed all the calibers good bullets and I am gonna use just that.

Anyway it's really boring to see that level of "bullet embracing" of bodies, when a body should be deeply disabled and stunned when you get hit... and when i dnt see this, ... but on me only!... well I become a little upset... not much, not rage, but it's just free negativity that creates just an UNHEALTHY loop "desire to check again" if I am good or not in another raid... and this is not healthy since it sucks me in.. and it's not positive.

I have happened to oo too absorb like ... maybe 10 bullets I think, I confess.. It's just silly...

I am currently opening the BSG "FUTURE OF TARKOV" Topic they have shared with us today :


I hope to find good news there. Thanks players, I love these kind of players that can have a mature discussion and share information and knowledge or open minded opinions. Bless you.

Sir Mossy your point on damage dispersion is Also besides the other things and what also other say very comforting...

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huntterx
On 1/20/2020 at 9:37 AM, d10sk0ur01 said:

I wanna be constructively contradicted but reading that ... I am not crazy is also feeling good. I don't wanna sound "negative" but on the topic "this deep into a reset" it can become BSpongy is not a good reason and should not be connected to the issues although I understand the logic of what u say there *polarticus.*

I read everybody as I want everybody else to do too, read the comments of others. I just don't see why there should be a reason for "being bullet spongy" because of being this deep. I think this more connected on the game being handholding because they need not to frustrate those that cannot shoot well, or give a chance to everybody , also those that don't know how to move inside the maps.. But If I hit you sometime or hit the enemy, sometime it really gets frustrating on the other hand seehing one needs like 3-4 T45N bullets to go down. I mean.. it's a bullet.

I think they need to reduce the RPG and BEND IT TO THE purpose of REAlism and also consistent FPS milsim, otherwise we really are going into a World of Warcraft.

I am really glad, and I hope I have not visions, that I see others see the same.
I have downloaded the AMMO that I need to use and I am gonna sell anything else that gets into my hands. I listed all the calibers good bullets and I am gonna use just that.

Anyway it's really boring to see that level of "bullet embracing" of bodies, when a body should be deeply disabled and stunned when you get hit... and when i dnt see this, ... but on me only!... well I become a little upset... not much, not rage, but it's just free negativity that creates just an UNHEALTHY loop "desire to check again" if I am good or not in another raid... and this is not healthy since it sucks me in.. and it's not positive.

I have happened to oo too absorb like ... maybe 10 bullets I think, I confess.. It's just silly...

I am currently opening the BSG "FUTURE OF TARKOV" Topic they have shared with us today :


I hope to find good news there. Thanks players, I love these kind of players that can have a mature discussion and share information and knowledge or open minded opinions. Bless you.

Sir Mossy your point on damage dispersion is Also besides the other things and what also other say very comforting...

Game isn't meant to be a mislim, it's a realistic (used in a way with ideology but still enjoyable) action RPG/Simulator. While 10+ is way to bullet spongy, 3-4 shots to kill someone still allows the other person to make a comeback and enjoy the game as well. Also Wow holds your hand, EFT doesn't because Tarkov giveth and taketh 

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huntterx

Sorry about quick response, had a minute to type it. Although I'll go abit more into detail.

Tarkov is a Hardcore action RPG/Simulator, they intend to add mechanics related to real life but also intend to make it enjoyable. Everyone dying to one shot is going to drive off the audience because it'll be a shoot first.

The bullet spongy I agree should be fixed a bit, especially with scavs. 10+ hits and they survive even though no armor. This is BS. Although people should still be able to survive a few shots, such as 3-5. Why? Well, it allows people who are new and don't have armor to still be able to play. Although head shots should still be one shot unless you have a good helmet. Not dying in one shot allows the person defending themselves to get a better position and spot the attacker.

You also state because a few mechanics that are rpg like, the game is gonna be another Wow. This game is far from Wow. From gameplay to skills. Also those RPG skills make sense too, because you're not some guy who knows how to spot properly, how to loot fast, how to reload properly, be strong as heck while not working out, sprint faster and longer than people who trained. This is apart of the realistic approach yet also adds a enjoyable approach.


Although, I have to commend you for not blurting out Insults because you don't have it your way and gave some valid criticism. 

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d10sk0ur01

Hey, hi, no problems, I checked both answer, now, in the same moment.
Thanks for taking time to come back.

I may be exaggerating but I don't do it for doing those journalistic trash titles that try to appeal the attention of zombies (typical after 2001 dot com boom...and the need to stay under the laws of advertorialism...)

I am saying that because sincerely I have seen that, exactly what you say with Scavs, it's BS. but it's ok, if they know it, if they are aware they need that not to happen, then ok. I noticed that in Offline this doesn't happen much, but it happens also there. I dnt know, It might be lag...

The game photorealism is just amazing, the rain rhythm raising and going down .. just TOP OF THE TOPS... it's just a great game, I just don't understand that "Second third chance to helmets"... helmets should be there to protect from nades or VERY LOW Calibers.

Now comes the bad, and this is really WOW Bullshit:
They can't make the KEVLAR of an helmet nor a glass perforating  bullets capable to ricochet away the 7.62.39 .. it's TRASH!
1 shot can be deflected (SOME TIMES!) but if one gets head shot it's head shot, it's in the eye, it's throught the freaking skull... it's death.

Also a noob is capable to learn and to head shot. People don't see it: imagine I that have medium skills and can head shot 1 and rarely twice in a row... that I get actually 2 shots NOT killing enemy (I saw in a  2 years ago video 3 bullets mostly probably hitting head of a scav I think and FAIR TX having to shoot 4-. 5 6 times then on the body to take down that target (it was 20 meters)... and the target was giving him back..

Well these things happen even today.

I surprise someone A PLAYER in the back and I shoot at vital points and YOU WANNA GIVE A COME BACK? Whaaaat? With all the respect you can give a second chance to these ERROR MAKERS that deserve death in game, but you are losing me. I won't come because of this negativity back to play. I won't be there to play again just because the game needs to give SECOND THIRD chances to everybody ... It will end up being INCONSISTENT.

Inconsistency is death for a FPS game, I mean death of the game.
I am sure the developers are very aware of what to do and how to give us quality and what we want, but no, I don't want a forgiving arcade game. I want a milsim shooter "hardcore is relative" (it has many meanings: like time spent only in this game, or hard in difficulty or other meanings like NO HUD etc.. even if there still some unnecessary hud appearing on screen...)

I just wanna say that the RPG needs to be bettered and I saw that you recognize it also by referring to the next updates that are coming and if you don't then I do it again: helmets or other level 4 -5 6 protection need to be heavy or very expensive. one of the two depending on quality... If the people get level 6 it needs to be expensive if they get level 4 stuff it needs to be heavy...

In a long range operation with a few contacts you will never carry 60+ LBS of weight... but WHY the game insists on allowing people to be like TANKS? Like ... Explosive Ordenance Disposal Christmas Trees...? And then gviing 5 6 chances.. i shoot you in the back you are done..  you can't turn fast (like those good FPS players do often immediately knowing where you are shooting them from and strangely killing you... ) that0's not realistic.

IT's an arcade game if they allow this.
If you get surprised you are done 60% ... it can't be "fun the fact that someone has the upper hand and gets frustrated" by some SUPER HEAVY armor and hopper...

Because if you do that you actually favor those that spend more time and that are better players.. and it will always stay and enforce WHAT YOU ACTUALLY are instead suggesting it will not support what I am saying...

What I am saying is instead gonna make ALL the same or anyway all acapable to make a play and actually feel like PMC in tarkov.

I am also against the "PMC respawn" which is now a very arcade thing.. I hope they will  give unique names to PMC too and actually allow a "parking lot of them".. I fully explained and fully flashed out these things in a topic already some months ago..

The game is beta testing and not a game yet.. I really hope they won't sit on what we have now because it's not really very satisfying yet.
 

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d10sk0ur01

Just right now.. I was in a game in factory.. I shot a couple of time a guy and he was still alive. I knew it was a player scav because they tend to go on the top and shoot everyone. I knew where they peek and kill u from as I learned the holes etc.

But I shot this guy 2 3 times and still was able to jump down and attack me..
I got to kill this guy then another comes and doesn't look at me I look at HIM from behind, I aim at the head and shoot and the guy has the time to turn and kill me... RIDICULOUS game.

I dnt think it was a scav NPC it was a duo of PLayer scavs and even if just NPC .. this is not acceptable.

ONE THAT HITS first especially without protection enemies need to have the upper hand. That's all. If you want to leave ARCADE second chances to every body just because you can't afford to face a game competition that is based ON MERIT then tell it... because that is not FPS gaming, it's ... who is most lucky with Internet connection and just gambling shooting ...

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huntterx
On 1/24/2020 at 4:53 PM, d10sk0ur01 said:

Just right now.. I was in a game in factory.. I shot a couple of time a guy and he was still alive. I knew it was a player scav because they tend to go on the top and shoot everyone. I knew where they peek and kill u from as I learned the holes etc.

But I shot this guy 2 3 times and still was able to jump down and attack me..
I got to kill this guy then another comes and doesn't look at me I look at HIM from behind, I aim at the head and shoot and the guy has the time to turn and kill me... RIDICULOUS game.

I dnt think it was a scav NPC it was a duo of PLayer scavs and even if just NPC .. this is not acceptable.

ONE THAT HITS first especially without protection enemies need to have the upper hand. That's all. If you want to leave ARCADE second chances to every body just because you can't afford to face a game competition that is based ON MERIT then tell it... because that is not FPS gaming, it's ... who is most lucky with Internet connection and just gambling shooting ...

2nd guy sounds like scav AI being a scav which is being improved. Also, last night I get mad dumped by 2 AKs with 30 round mags and lived with blacked legs, lower stomach, and right arm. Which I shouldn't had survived because it was trooper armor (USEC) and lvl 3 helment. Although Pscav able to survive a dozen shots is random. killed a Pscav with 1 SuperFormance round and he had armor. So basically it is russian roulette although this is more about personnel experience now instead of actual statistics 

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FrostyBalls

just a sidenote on this whole realsim thing. 

Most gunshot wounds of a single bullet will not kill you unless they hit vital organs. Many many accounts for example with police where people have been magdumped på an officer without armor and still keeps on going. (although not for long because of obvious reasons)

I agree with some Points but not others. but saying that you should Always push someones off switch with a bullet or two really puts me in the perspective that u dont really know alot about firearms or the way different rounds work aswell as the Medical stats of the gunshotwounds overall. There are faceshields that can stop 50 rounds of 9mm ammo. but a 7.62 will blow straight trough it. aswell ass for example AE50 deagle stopping on a vest but the FN5-7 will go straight trough because of the speed.

Not saying it cant improve, and you still have taken your time to make some valid Points with i encorage everyone to do!

the fact off RNG applies in real Life too, a helmet 1 mm  left or right when a shot is taken can mean pen or Bounce.

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GeneralBrus
vor 2 Stunden schrieb FrostyBalls:

the fact off RNG applies in real Life too, a helmet 1 mm  left or right when a shot is taken can mean pen or Bounce.

Thats not RNG its called angle, 

RNG in games is only applied in arcadegames, OR when its impossible to create something that reflects the reallife reason.

well... or maybe someone was just lazy and likes rolling them Dice.

Skill = consistensy : is what most "hardcore shooter players" like, however you can still be a professional Pokerplayer.

How so?  Well, a poker pro doesnt get the better RNG, he is just good at the things which he can work with. 

RNG is fun in strategie games, but i think it has no place in a shooter.

Edited by GeneralBrus

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GeneralBrus

Also, i personaly think the maxgear gameplay is somewhat good ballanced.

If you have the Best Ammo and Armor a M4 and an AK are about a 3-4 hit kill on chest 

and the bigger rifles are a 2 hit kill on chest.

 

thing is some ammos have broken prices, probs because of the ppl buying out M995 and stuff, the traders are adapting to the demand if im not mistaken.

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FrostyBalls
On 1/28/2020 at 6:00 PM, GeneralBrus said:

Thats not RNG its called angle, 

RNG in games is only applied in arcadegames, OR when its impossible to create something that reflects the reallife reason.

well... or maybe someone was just lazy and likes rolling them Dice.

Skill = consistensy : is what most "hardcore shooter players" like, however you can still be a professional Pokerplayer.

How so?  Well, a poker pro doesnt get the better RNG, he is just good at the things which he can work with. 

RNG is fun in strategie games, but i think it has no place in a shooter.

 

On 1/28/2020 at 6:00 PM, GeneralBrus said:

Thats not RNG its called angle, 

RNG in games is only applied in arcadegames, OR when its impossible to create something that reflects the reallife reason.

well... or maybe someone was just lazy and likes rolling them Dice.

Skill = consistensy : is what most "hardcore shooter players" like, however you can still be a professional Pokerplayer.

How so?  Well, a poker pro doesnt get the better RNG, he is just good at the things which he can work with. 

RNG is fun in strategie games, but i think it has no place in a shooter.

Im not gonna say you are wrong because u are not, but the RNG im refering to is, well look at it like this, if you take an real Life AK, aim up a shot, if your sight is calibrated you will hit at that Point. if you then full spray you can recoil Control it but you can never predict the exact Point of impact since the recoil and the physics behind it are, in lack of a fancy Word "random"

and you cant really compare this to poker, poker is luck compared with being able to bluff your opponent and having the skill to have somewhat of a knowlage of what your ods are with certain cards. you can NEVER know what the next card is gonna be, even the skill of counting cards is basic math taken too an extreme level.

FYI, without any form of RNG in the gunplay, your gun would just shoot straight like a laser or Always have the same recoil pattern that you could learn and still have your laser, unpredictability in a gun is like in real Life. so im not sure how we ended up in this though, since it was about sponge and that isnt really a problem in this game if you learn where to shoot and/or bring the right type of ammo.

 

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huntterx

I read more into depth. Bullets have different purposes. You're comparing a knife to a bat. Bat does blunt damage, knife does bleed damage and slashing. Like bullets. Some bullets are meant against targets with no armor such as hunting rifle bullets. Animals don't wear armor, nor do common thugs, gangsters, or any criminal. So police are given low caliber rounds. Swat have armor to protect against low caliber rounds as well. Than there is military. People who have genuine armor, and standard issue military grade bullets. Bullets meant to puncture common soldier protective armor. So of course they're going to either die or become disabled. It's meant to kill soldiers. Although low caliber rounds can kill people pretty easily, and can still kill soldiers. Armor protects vital organs from low caliber rounds. Armor on personnel can not physically protect against military grade bullets of their penetration and the amount of force. If you do have armor that can protect, it's going to be to heavy to carry. Even than others will upgrade their arsenal. They will have more bullets with higher force which will be more than enough to kill soldiers with armor. Armor just stops penetration, not blunt damage. That's why people who have armor such as cops are in great pain, because real life physical damage that feels like you got punched hard.

Now compare it to ingame. The only time your character is in major pain and needs actual painkillers is if bones are broken. Bullets will always hurt. If your character is always in huge amounts of pain such as the current pain mechanic, people are going to stop playing. There a reason behind everything. Whether it's not added yet or not planned on being added. Also game is indeed meant to be realistic, which means a good grasp on reality. Which Tarkov does have for a game.

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