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Fearonis

ADD FRIENDLY MARKERS! Its unrealistic to NOT be able to differentiate between friend & foe.

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Fearonis

Before you even begin to process a thought, let me first begin by stating that I 100% understand that realism is a huge part of the game and I agree with much of what has been done to accomplish this. Now…

 

Please consider adding some sort of visual aid or cue to friendly players/squad mates. I get that "In ReAl LiFe We DoNt HaVe TrIaNgLeS oVeR oUr HeAds!" but considering teammates are most likely friends, family, or some sort of significant other from the perspective of the characters we play as, then our characters would've already established an understanding of their body language, posture, etc. It’s similar to how I know who is walking up the stairs in my house when several others live here or I that I can spot a friend from afar based on posture and body shape. It’s these cues that aren’t translated in the game, and frankly, should be if the developers are trying to accomplish realism.

 

I do like that arm bands are in the game and that players can coordinate outfits but that doesn’t quite do enough. The current lack of visual aid in an attempt achieve realism actually undermines what the developers of Tarkov sought to achieve. Things like the lack of information (like no HUD), manual inputs (like checking ammo count and order of operations), or intense hitboxes don’t solely contribute to a sense of realism.  

 

Some suggestions would be to add triangles over heads or a green outline to show it’s a friendly. Maybe this doesn’t appear until some sort of a “check” is performed (similar to searching/inspecting in the game). So maybe  player needs to look at their teammate for a half second or so in order to undergo this check. Maybe as you play together more the time to check decreases and eventually becomes instant?

 

These are just my thoughts. Thanks for reading!

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Thormato

1. If you cant tell who is your mate, maybe that game isnt something for you? its easy
2. You are telling me 2 totaly trained soldiers with body armor, helmets and backpacks and facemasks do look so different that you can tell, oh hey thats bob?
3. They all recived the same training, their fight posture is pretty much the same...
4. And if you look at people for a half a second and still cant tell if they are friends or enemys, maybe you should play solo

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tobiassolem

This is a no-factor.

In a squad, comms and communication is what is used to relay position info,

If you're unsure, tell your mates to go prone.

 

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Fearonis
2 hours ago, Thormato said:

1. If you cant tell who is your mate, maybe that game isnt something for you? its easy
2. You are telling me 2 totaly trained soldiers with body armor, helmets and backpacks and facemasks do look so different that you can tell, oh hey thats bob?
3. They all recived the same training, their fight posture is pretty much the same...
4. And if you look at people for a half a second and still cant tell if they are friends or enemys, maybe you should play solo

Firstly, i'm critiquing more specific game-play elements as they relate to feel of realism (literally the main driving force/concept behind the game). Saying "maybe the game isn't for me" because of this one item and because I'm criticizing ANYTHING at all is just silly. I play and watch soccer, I dislike not being able straight arm. Guess soccer isn't for me , time to hang up my boots, what on earth was i thinking. I understand you like the game and so do I, a lot, but you don't need to defend yourself or the game by trying to tell me the game isn't for me. If that's how people approached discussions then nothing would get done. 

Keep in my argument is that game lacks the real cues that people in real life use to differentiate people from others. 

1. I can tell but it requires a completely different process of thought than what people would use in real life. 

2. Yes, and I bet if you put your close friends, family, or colleagues in morph suits and have them shuffle around you'd be able to tell who is who.

3. Okay, valid, but you're sticking to posture. What about breath, sounds, SHAPE? And im sure there is variances in posture too of trained professionals. Humans evolved to pick up on patterns.

4. Again, I'm critiquing a game-play element. Your don't offer a valuable response. I 100% can tell apart based on their position and communications but thats about it. Other than outfits there really isnt many other visual ques found IN REAL LIFE that get implemented into the games mechanics. 

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keyciraptor
vor 2 Stunden schrieb Fearonis:

Before you even begin to process a thought, let me first begin by stating that I 100% understand that realism is a huge part of the game and I agree with much of what has been done to accomplish this. Now…

 

Please consider adding some sort of visual aid or cue to friendly players/squad mates. I get that "In ReAl LiFe We DoNt HaVe TrIaNgLeS oVeR oUr HeAds!" but considering teammates are most likely friends, family, or some sort of significant other from the perspective of the characters we play as, then our characters would've already established an understanding of their body language, posture, etc. It’s similar to how I know who is walking up the stairs in my house when several others live here or I that I can spot a friend from afar based on posture and body shape. It’s these cues that aren’t translated in the game, and frankly, should be if the developers are trying to accomplish realism.

 

I do like that arm bands are in the game and that players can coordinate outfits but that doesn’t quite do enough. The current lack of visual aid in an attempt achieve realism actually undermines what the developers of Tarkov sought to achieve. Things like the lack of information (like no HUD), manual inputs (like checking ammo count and order of operations), or intense hitboxes don’t solely contribute to a sense of realism.  

 

Some suggestions would be to add triangles over heads or a green outline to show it’s a friendly. Maybe this doesn’t appear until some sort of a “check” is performed (similar to searching/inspecting in the game). So maybe  player needs to look at their teammate for a half second or so in order to undergo this check. Maybe as you play together more the time to check decreases and eventually becomes instant?

 

These are just my thoughts. Thanks for reading!

absolutely right! we also need something like binoculars where you can spot enemys and will see them till the end of the game. Also we should have an auto heal function and perks and by at least 5 kills you should get an airdrop and by 7 an apache copter guarding you

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BanditMaka

Markers destroy immersion or any sense of "realisim" (the game isn't realistic), more than having to distinguish between who, and retain where, your party members are.
You'll get use to it, and it'll be a lot better for you in the long run than relying on training wheels.

 

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Killerbees11

This kid hurts my brain lol I want markers on my teammates lol same response on call of duty players and queers of war players always wanting the game to be easier because the game is hard dont mean u need to change it. I'm been playing this game since there was 1 map. U just have to get used to using coms and relying on looking at your friendly and identifying them before u shoot.

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GeneralBrus
vor 27 Minuten schrieb Fearonis:

Saying "maybe the game isn't for me" because of this one item and because I'm criticizing ANYTHING at all is just silly. I play and watch soccer, I dislike not being able straight arm. Guess soccer isn't for me , time to hang up my boots, what on earth was i thinking. I understand you like the game and so do I, a lot, but you don't need to defend yourself or the game by trying to tell me the game isn't for me. If that's how people approached discussions then nothing would get done. 

Welcome to the Tarkov Forum, some guys seem kinda salty about alot of things.

However, i can understand their feeling about that topic.

However, you are right that it is way easier to spot your allies in reallife.

 

A friendly indicator could still be fair and kinda realistic, kinda how they did it in Squad, youll only see it when you aim at your bro.

 

How ever here is what i would love:

Make vests and backpacks not so wierd unique, instead we could have 3 types of colour pattern backpacks that cost the same and hold the same space, kinda like a backpack and vests tier system. 

Right now i dont like how our gear is ballanced, why take that green lvl4 helmet if the black one costs less and is just as good?

That would allow us to pick "SQUAD CAMO GEAR", and that would be realistic AND super helpfull.

Playing in 5 man squads is super aids and kinda like the hardest challange for me : )

 

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StupidNub123

I would recommenced using the armbands if you are having trouble identifying friend from foe. If you get a high enough level you can buy different clothes from ragman through the services tab.

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Thormato
36 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

Right now i dont like how our gear is ballanced, why take that green lvl4 helmet if the black one costs less and is just as good?

black is just as good as green? You use green stuff to blend in with natur, not black

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GeneralBrus
vor 5 Minuten schrieb Thormato:

black is just as good as green? You use green stuff to blend in with natur, not black

True, i know, same reason why the cheap lvl 4 armor is yellow TAN, however i think  it doesnt need to be like that, i see a huge missed opportunity. However, not every map is a forest.

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RACWAR
5 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

True, i know, same reason why the cheap lvl 4 armor is yellow TAN, however i think  it doesnt need to be like that, i see a huge missed opportunity. However, not every map is a forest.

You do realize that the armor your are referring to is from the Soviet-Afghan war, right? In a hot desert-like environment you typically want something that blends in with that, hence tan.

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GeneralBrus
vor 1 Minute schrieb RACWAR:

You do realize that the armor your are referring to is from the Soviet-Afghan war, right? In a hot desert-like environment you typically want something that blends in with that, hence tan.

yes.

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sackmycack
4 hours ago, Fearonis said:

Before you even begin to process a thought, let me first begin by stating that I 100% understand that realism is a huge part of the game and I agree with much of what has been done to accomplish this. Now…

 

Please consider adding some sort of visual aid or cue to friendly players/squad mates. I get that "In ReAl LiFe We DoNt HaVe TrIaNgLeS oVeR oUr HeAds!" but considering teammates are most likely friends, family, or some sort of significant other from the perspective of the characters we play as, then our characters would've already established an understanding of their body language, posture, etc. It’s similar to how I know who is walking up the stairs in my house when several others live here or I that I can spot a friend from afar based on posture and body shape. It’s these cues that aren’t translated in the game, and frankly, should be if the developers are trying to accomplish realism.

 

I do like that arm bands are in the game and that players can coordinate outfits but that doesn’t quite do enough. The current lack of visual aid in an attempt achieve realism actually undermines what the developers of Tarkov sought to achieve. Things like the lack of information (like no HUD), manual inputs (like checking ammo count and order of operations), or intense hitboxes don’t solely contribute to a sense of realism.  

 

Some suggestions would be to add triangles over heads or a green outline to show it’s a friendly. Maybe this doesn’t appear until some sort of a “check” is performed (similar to searching/inspecting in the game). So maybe  player needs to look at their teammate for a half second or so in order to undergo this check. Maybe as you play together more the time to check decreases and eventually becomes instant?

 

These are just my thoughts. Thanks for reading!

You said it yourself, you are most likely playing with somebody that you play with regularly. So you should know how one another play the game and you should always be relaying information in a fight. If this is an issue you need to play together more or focus on comms more. Another thing is that its always good to know what your teammate or teammates look like in terms of gear. So like what color helmet, face shield or not, gun, distinctive mods on the gun, backpack, rig, body armor. Also coordinating clothing doesn't work all the time because a lot of people are running the same clothes mainly because some combos are just more aesthetic. Finally I never run armbands when i'm in a group for two reason. One is that you can't see the armband from all angles and the second is that for me when i'm playing solo when I kill somebody with and armband 95% of the time it reinforces the idea that theirs always at least one more. the other 5% of the time its just somebody trying to make you think theirs more.

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pattymills

I also share in the frustration of not being able to smoothly enjoy playing with friends, but I think the biggest reason for not having friendly markers is to help balance the game for solo players. If they add friendly markers for squads, but they don't implement separate queues for squads / solos, then the solo players will be at a major disadvantage. In the current state, the solo players actually have a decent chance to put up a fight.

TLDR: I would be severely disappointed if they added friendly markers without adding separate queues for solo/squads. (Also, to be clear, I am not advocating for separate queues. Just that IF they decide to add friendly markers, I hope the separate queues come with them. I'd prefer if neither were implemented.)

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Fearonis

Fair, and yeah perhaps i need more playing hours. I would guess that it would be quite difficult to implement the measures im thinking of. But i think markers are reasonable solution as it would bridge that gap between how humans actually differentiate in really life and how we need to adjust in game (if you feel me). 

 

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Fearonis
4 hours ago, keyciraptor said:

absolutely right! we also need something like binoculars where you can spot enemys and will see them till the end of the game. Also we should have an auto heal function and perks and by at least 5 kills you should get an airdrop and by 7 an apache copter guarding you

I don't understand how you're getting to this? Why would you even assume that i'd want this or would support this idea because of what i previously mentioned. I get that you want to preserve the difficulty of the game but I don't think the lack of visual cues to attempt realism is effective nor is it actually realistic imo. 

 

Look, I get that you really want to defend this game but I'm merely critiquing one aspect of it. I enjoy the game A LOT but you need to minimize your lens and set aside your feelings for something you like in order to properly engage in discussion. Youre clearly intolerant to outside opinions. Don't be stubborn please. You can dislike my idea, you can tell me you dislike my idea, you can be offense while telling me you dislike my ideas, but at least attempt to engage in realistic conversation. IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY HAVE I IMPLIED THAT I'D WANT THE THINGS YOURE DESCRIBING... LOL

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GeneralBrus

its called sarcasm, hes making fun of you. gg ez

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Banzeye

I would suggest wearing one of the character masks when you squad up if you have trouble with visual distinction.

What I would say while on this thread, one additional type of arm band should be an IR pulse band to see the teammate in a night scope. The down side is you blink a mile away to anyone with the I$R scope but that's the dice you roll.

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Slivar

I actually agree with this to an extent. There needs to be some sort of indication of friend or foe. The problem with games that jump onto the realism bandwagon to much is that you simply don't have as much situational awareness as you would in real life. That is what the UI elements are supposed to make up for in games. Right now there is little to know directional sound from gun shots, there is no damage direction indicators, no directional indication, redundant button presses to pull of basic information, ect... remember your making a game for people to play, not an attempt at a realism simulator that nobody will want to play. I like allot of stuff about the game ie no bullet counts but I should know the status of my health without having opening up my menu. I should know the direction for north, I should know how fast my char can take before walking ect... I don't agree with spotting like BF games or over the top elements like COD maybe an arm or bands that is a default red for foe and blue for friend.

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Fearonis

 

12 hours ago, Slivar said:

I actually agree with this to an extent. There needs to be some sort of indication of friend or foe. The problem with games that jump onto the realism bandwagon to much is that you simply don't have as much situational awareness as you would in real life. That is what the UI elements are supposed to make up for in games. Right now there is little to know directional sound from gun shots, there is no damage direction indicators, no directional indication, redundant button presses to pull of basic information, ect... remember your making a game for people to play, not an attempt at a realism simulator that nobody will want to play. I like allot of stuff about the game ie no bullet counts but I should know the status of my health without having opening up my menu. I should know the direction for north, I should know how fast my char can take before walking ect... I don't agree with spotting like BF games or over the top elements like COD maybe an arm or bands that is a default red for foe and blue for friend.

"situational awareness", those are the words im looking for. I would assume this would be hard to implement in some forms but things like sounds indicators on the HUD wouldn't be bad (especially when the game has poor audio quality already). 

Just because they're trying to achieve realism doesn't mean you need to strip the game down and then make things more confusing then they need to be. Nor does over tedious tasks help to make the game more realistic. My guess is that the developers approach so far is to increase immersion rather than making a combat simulator. and I'm okay with that tbh. But they really market the whole realism side of the game and it's one of the reasons why i bought it. 

It's almost like people think a lack of content or in game mechanics = hardcore/realistic. Does it increase difficulty, yes. Does it increase immersion, yes. But it doesn’t make it more real (the thing people defend the most). I read through the forums, I understand there are ex-soldiers, ex-commanders, ex-weapon specialists, ex-russian elite space marine snipers (like I f****** get it!).  But players and developers are ignoring how REAL people behave and act in REAL situations. HUDs in other games like BF or COD help people perceive the in-game world as if they were actually there. (no, I’m not saying to make a BF/COD game).

So back to the teammate indicators. Instead of relying on real world cues the game uses fake or unrealistic cues or methods to identify a teammate. Instead of trying to attempt at adding an in-game mechanic for this they instead chose to not add anything at all. Players are instead forced to rely on communications and unrealistic visual cues (like “what kind of helmet you have on”) to identify teammates.

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Maldrega
On 1/28/2020 at 5:13 AM, Thormato said:

1. If you cant tell who is your mate, maybe that game isnt something for you? its easy
2. You are telling me 2 totaly trained soldiers with body armor, helmets and backpacks and facemasks do look so different that you can tell, oh hey thats bob?
3. They all recived the same training, their fight posture is pretty much the same...
4. And if you look at people for a half a second and still cant tell if they are friends or enemys, maybe you should play solo

 

On 1/28/2020 at 5:20 AM, tobiassolem said:

This is a no-factor.

In a squad, comms and communication is what is used to relay position info,

If you're unsure, tell your mates to go prone.

 

BTW little kids it's a game.  If you wanna play soldier go join the military and tell me how much fun it is KTHX.

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tobiassolem
Just now, Maldrega said:

 

BTW little kids it's a game.  If you wanna play soldier go join the military and tell me how much fun it is KTHX.

I did several years of service, its one of the reasons why I spent many years enjoying military sims (such as the ARMA-series) and why I detest arcade shooters, like what you want to turn this game into.

So to me it sounds like what you want to turn the game into is a little kids' game. v0v

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Zoanthid

We absolutely dont need friendly markers because its not realistic in any way and also it lowers the skill ceiling. Effective communication is what makes a good 5 man squad good and I personally love sewing confusion as a mostly solo player on the enemy 5 man teams.

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Moriakul
1 hour ago, tobiassolem said:

I did several years of service, its one of the reasons why I spent many years enjoying military sims (such as the ARMA-series) and why I detest arcade shooters, like what you want to turn this game into.

So to me it sounds like what you want to turn the game into is a little kids' game. v0v

 

1 hour ago, Zoanthid said:

We absolutely dont need friendly markers because its not realistic in any way and also it lowers the skill ceiling. Effective communication is what makes a good 5 man squad good and I personally love sewing confusion as a mostly solo player on the enemy 5 man teams.

Agreed with both of these:  Absolutely do not add friendly markers.  Allied players already have telepathic communication (i.e. voice comms that produce no in-game audio signature, via Discord, etc.).  This is more than enough of a crutch to counterbalance the limitations on immersion.  Keep aiming high, and don't settle for typical video-game cop-outs.

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