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Trader Market Issues and Secure Container/Hatchling Farming Issues + Polls Included.

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Giribaldi_TTV

Hello everyone Giribaldi here, bring to you and the Devs a more focused orientated post/suggestion which will include secure polls for you to take in order for the Devs to better understand the communities wants for the game they love, in hopes that a change will be made as swiftly as possible due to the large increase in player base and thus the cause and need for such changes.

Please scroll to the bottom for the 2 respective polls. 

In Tarkov, we explain it as a game that is a "hardcore" fps, something like PubG but with worth and value in the continued playing and development of your stash and character; however, a serious issue we face right now is a huge problem with the market and influx of players abusing, and I say abusing because this shouldn't be a playstyle available, a certain playstyle mindset that is not limited to just the normal player but also RMT business's. What I suggest, and has already been tested and done before, is we reinstate the Pre-Wipe Secure Container rule where in we are no longer able to place items into a secure container when in a raid, nor put things back in that were in there before. This purposed idea would cripple the RMT business's by removing the certainty of extracting with loot and would force the community to extract if they want to gain anything. I dont know about you but my idea of fun isnt to load into a raid and find that 50-80% of the PMCs I find are their souly as hatchet runners to suicide right after getting there secure container full. This will also provide much needed content for the regular player base.

 

Second proposal, and one you seen a lot, is a need to fix the Trader sold items to be an infinite stock system with buy limits that refresh at normal interval. Right now a plague to the community is the problem that within 5 seconds of Traders refreshing their stock, unless ample, quickly disappears and makes it so the prices are gouged sometimes as bad as 500%. This will also provide another way to hit the RMT business's and market bots by removing the ability to price gouge items that are highly used but very few stocked; essentially creating money by playing the market and marking up items that sell for significantly less.

 

Links to polls:

Trader Out of Stock Issue

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Secure Container - Hatchling issue

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syntaxxl

Here we go again...

It's not that simple to fix this problem, sir...
If BSG did remove containers, or even limit it, imagine the % of players camping extractions,
or even staying afk in the corner of the map with all the good loot on them, waiting for the last few minutes to extract...

This isn't just a problem where you have a solution like "just remove the container, L.O.L"...

It's deep and can (and will) hurt a big part of the community if dealt with wrongly.

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skyflashde

Ok, as a noob that can't really play this game, I can tell you right away why I will never enter into any raid as a PMC other than naked.

The reason is:

This game is so poorly designed, that I have zero benefit of even having a gun with me.

The few times I actually brought a gun with me (my first raids) I mostly got killed without having fired a shot. So I stopped bringing a gun. The few times I actually shot a gun, my enemy was in full armor and my noob bullets didnt even hurt him.

In order to continue playing the game, I need to make more money in raids than I lose. If I bring a gun with me, I cannot do that, because any gun is this game is so friggin expensive, that I can not make up for the loss in any case.

So yeah... I can tell you a few dozen things that would make this game playable, but obviously every player that now is full gear, feeding on noobs like me that have no chance in hell to EVER become better or even make any money or get items, will object to those ideas, so whats the point?

Basic game design was just completely fucked up in this game.

- If people need guns to play the game but lose them on death, the most basic guns need to be very cheap or even free.

- Any player, especially new players, should statistically make more money in a raid than they spend, even if they play bad. They don't.

- If people need guns to play the game (and the economy depends on other people having loot with them), it shouldn't even be allowed to join a game without one.

- It shouldn't even be possible to end up in a situation where you cant play the game at all cause you dont have a gun, medkit, whatever.

- It shouldn't even be possible to end up in a situation where both Scav AND PMC can't be played cause of cooldown.

- If the game design (economy of raid rewards vs. money lost dying) depends on people looting large items, it shouldnt even be possible to enter a game without backpack, cause you cant even loot.

- If I need to play Scav to make money (thus I have to avoid any fights where I could die) it doesnt make any sense to design Scavs as a threat to PMCs, because I will try to avoid them at all cost.

- If I need to play PMC naked because the economy tells me it brings the most benefit, why is PMC the main char of the game? Only time I currently REALLY play the game is as Scav.

- Bringing medkits into a raid is completely useless. I have never been hurt in a raid yet, I usually die in 1 second or less without knowing from where the shot came. So whats even the point of medkits? Especially if you need the secure container to store loot.

- What is even the purpose of the PMC still being hurt after he dies in a raid? It makes the player either wait or use money to heal him. As a noob, you dont have that money anyway, so you have to wait. But playing as a noob is bad enough as it is, cause the game doesnt make any fun at all. So why let a noob player wait for healing? Is that supposed to be fun or useful for anything?

- The most basic item you need is ammunition. Why is it that expensive, especially the basic, bad ammunition?

- The economy is very badly designed. Why is it very easy for rich players to stay rich and very hard for new players to not go completely bankrupt? All prices are too high, as rich players are so rich that they need a money sink to even get rid of the money, while no new player can even afford a gun.

- Why is the game designed in a way that full armored and equipped players can deny everyone else good loot spots and extracts by camping there? There are too few spots on the edges of the maps, so that basicly every spot is camped.

Tons more things in this game that are just wrong... and none have anything to do with this game being "hardcore". The game is just "hardcore" unbalanced in almost every way possible, especially economy and raid rewards.

Players will do what makes sense... so of course 80% of the players don't bring a gun into a raid or even medkits.

I would recommend a few changes to his game:

1. There should be a free rifle and backpack if you dont have any in your stash. If you do have one though, you shouldnt be allowed to enter a game without one.

2. The PMC should respawn with full health if you play a Scav mission. The Scav should go off cooldown if you play a PMC mission. So in any case, after you finish a game, you can play again and dont have to wait.

3. Drastically reduce all prices so the difference between poor and rich is less. Put a low maximum money limit into the game so you get back some control over risk vs. reward. Cause there is no risk for rich people.

4. Put more loot on the edges of the maps instead of centralizing loot in a few places where huge gunfights start. That way, poor players can loot stuff and the loot doesnt always stockpile on people with full armor and perfect sniper rifles and grenades (those players will of course own those centralized loot spots).

So yeah... I will wait for this game to become good. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

Have fun... haha... that was a good one.

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Giribaldi_TTV
On 2/6/2020 at 5:35 AM, syntaxxl said:

Here we go again...

It's not that simple to fix this problem, sir...
If BSG did remove containers, or even limit it, imagine the % of players camping extractions,
or even staying afk in the corner of the map with all the good loot on them, waiting for the last few minutes to extract...

This isn't just a problem where you have a solution like "just remove the container, L.O.L"...

It's deep and can (and will) hurt a big part of the community if dealt with wrongly.

A game isnt a game unless you play it, hatchling running isnt really playing it, this isnt a farming simulator, this is a hardcore shooter. If people switch to camping, that's fine because that's better than not actually ducking playing. After all in real life using Linear Danger Areas as a trap have been used time and time again as tactics for our military and others across the world, it is infact playing the game to sit and camp, its shitty to die by it or get rekted doing it but atleast your playing the game. I wouldn't get mad dieing to extraction campers, I would get mad at people ruining my gaming expierence by having nothing but hatchet runners plague my server as I came to gather resources and kill anyone else doing the same to hopefully secure better resources, that is how the game is supposed to be intended and that's words paraphrased from Nikitia himself, eventually secure containers will not exist once out of beta (supposedly), itll be a dog eat dog world which is what's expected from a hardcore shooter, if you cant handle it get better or get lost, but dont bring down the rest of our gameplay wants and needs with your tears because your aren't good enough to play better.

To clarify I'm not calling you out personally, I'm only calling out the ones that whine about the inability to adapt and overcome and survive in the brutal world that is Tarkov without forcing the hand of BSG into changing the game from what's been envisioned to pander to the needs of the cryers who again aren't good.

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skyflashde
vor 1 Stunde schrieb Giribaldi_TTV:

To clarify I'm not calling you out personally, I'm only calling out the ones that whine about the inability to adapt and overcome and survive in the brutal world that is Tarkov without forcing the hand of BSG into changing the game from what's been envisioned to pander to the needs of the cryers who again aren't good.

So you complain (cry like a baby) about people going into a raid naked and then complain (again crying like a baby) about people that whine and then you even complain about people making suggestions to try to fix this wreck of a game and make sure enough people will play it in the end so the servers arent totally deserted and the creators of this game actually have money to pay for the wages of their programmers.

Wow, dude.

The cause of people going in naked is that the prices for weapons and pretty much every item in the game are way too expensive, so that it doesn't make any sense to even bring a weapon if you try to make money.

This is not a hardcore shooter. A hardcore shooter is actually a realistic shooter (you know, where everyone in the game actually can shoot cause he has a weapon). But there is nothing realistic about this game and its not a shooter.... its a scavenge simulator. This one day MAY BECOME a hardcore shooter if they fix those huge design fails.

What I see is people playing as NPCs rather than actually playing what is supposed to be the game, because they hate the actual game. And if people actually play the game they go in naked, because it is the best way to "play" what you call a game.

Have you ever seen naked people running in a warzone trying to grab as much loot as possible and then run to some exit door? No? Well me neither. So don't ever call this game realistic or a shooter please, let alone a "hardcore" shooter.

Sorry, for me this here does not even qualify as a game. This is a beta version that has to be fixed badly.

If this ever wants to be called a shooter, there shouldnt be ANY player going into a raid without a rifle, backpack and ammo. But they cant do that, because the basic design and economy of this game is fucked up.

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Giribaldi_TTV
On 2/7/2020 at 3:06 PM, skyflashde said:

So you complain (cry like a baby) about people going into a raid naked and then complain (again crying like a baby) about people that whine and then you even complain about people making suggestions to try to fix this wreck of a game and make sure enough people will play it in the end so the servers arent totally deserted and the creators of this game actually have money to pay for the wages of their programmers.

Wow, dude.

The cause of people going in naked is that the prices for weapons and pretty much every item in the game are way too expensive, so that it doesn't make any sense to even bring a weapon if you try to make money.

This is not a hardcore shooter. A hardcore shooter is actually a realistic shooter (you know, where everyone in the game actually can shoot cause he has a weapon). But there is nothing realistic about this game and its not a shooter.... its a scavenge simulator. This one day MAY BECOME a hardcore shooter if they fix those huge design fails.

What I see is people playing as NPCs rather than actually playing what is supposed to be the game, because they hate the actual game. And if people actually play the game they go in naked, because it is the best way to "play" what you call a game.

Have you ever seen naked people running in a warzone trying to grab as much loot as possible and then run to some exit door? No? Well me neither. So don't ever call this game realistic or a shooter please, let alone a "hardcore" shooter.

Sorry, for me this here does not even qualify as a game. This is a beta version that has to be fixed badly.

If this ever wants to be called a shooter, there shouldnt be ANY player going into a raid without a rifle, backpack and ammo. But they cant do that, because the basic design and economy of this game is fucked up.

While I can agree, that prices are twice as expensive as they should be, but at the same time the arguement could be made that they aren't. To be able to wear the best armor, or weapons, it shouldn't be cheap, cus then everyone would wear the best armor all the time. A player, like myself, that is good enough to play the game without hatchet running for loot can make more money than they lose by running budget runs. I make maybe 2-4mill roubles per day just having fun and wearing moderate gear and fully kitted weapons. Take into mind that moderate gear costs about 500-600k per full kit, which means I have enough money each day to loose 4ish full kits, if things were cheaper I'd almost have no reason to always wear the best and have even less chance of dieing and than more money. If everyone is always running the best ammo, the best gear than there is no point in other gear and that's why things are expensive, which is what I agree with, SOME things are too expensive however.

This isnt a farming simulator, this IS a shooter game. If you play enough eventually you become good, the current atmosphere promotes people to never get better, because they don't have too in order to make money if all they have to do is go in naked and secure container everything. 

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VonMarder

The solution is very simpel.

1.Allow to stash everything in secure containers.

2.Do not forbid hatchlings.

3.Add a gear score. Group score. Scav score.

4. Station more scavs at certain high value loot spots.

Scavs will react diffrently to detected players and what gear score they have.

 

So if a hatchling/pistolier/mossling is detectec by a scav he identiefies him as easy prey and starts to hunt him down. If players are above a certain gear score singel scavs will avoid them. hide in bushes run away.

groups of scavs might attack one geard player but if there are multipel players with gear they might avoide them.

 

Think with your brains, if you where scav in tarkov and you see a group of gen4 rpk wielding maniaks would you charg towatds them or hide and prey they dont see you?

 

With this "score" scavs could be enebald to use diffrent tactics. from hunt and bully the hatchling to ambush the geard guys to run for your life.

And if a singel hatchling dose sucede in remo ing the scav or scavs that want to kill him because he is easy prey he deserves what ever loot he can carry.

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s00pcan

I've had this game since last April but barely played it until the past week. The most frustrating part is not being able to actually play the game during the scav cooldown or PMC resting period. I just go to the fence and click refresh until I find items I'm looking for or unexamined items to get experience. I get shot in the head within a minute of doing a PMC raid unless I just crawl to the exit and secure any items I find along the way. As a scav I just run for the exit to sell of whatever gun I started with because that's the only real way of getting guns/money that I have right now. Waiting up to six minutes to join a match after waiting 20 minutes shouldn't happen. Then I play with bots and a full PMC loadout, get bored, repeat.

Why can't I put a pistol in a secure container? I'd actually bring one if that were the case. See someone I think I can sneak up on, pull the pistol out of the case, go after them.

Edited by s00pcan

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Giribaldi_TTV

Update: with the new hatchling tagged and cursed rule I wanted to comment. BSG why the duck are you altering in raid mechanics that dont work very well and killing all of the hatchlings in raid, it maybe takes care of 1 or 2 hatchlings because scavs aren't always between them and their first loot spot. 

 

I said it in this thread and I'll say it again, a universal KILL that will successfully remove the hatchling problem is locking the secure container during raid. It doesn't change in raid mechanics, it can't  be abused or manipulated, it doesnt affect anything other than loading loot into your container, it still keeps the things you bring in safe and that's all that matters. So please BSG just lock the secure containers for a month and adjust loot spawns accordingly to accommodate the influx in market supply that'll get hit. 

 

Making hatchlings tagged and cursed opens up a whole world of manipulation to in raid mechanics.

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Teralyzed
On 2/13/2020 at 5:23 PM, Giribaldi_TTV said:

Update: with the new hatchling tagged and cursed rule I wanted to comment. BSG why the duck are you altering in raid mechanics that dont work very well and killing all of the hatchlings in raid, it maybe takes care of 1 or 2 hatchlings because scavs aren't always between them and their first loot spot. 

 

I said it in this thread and I'll say it again, a universal KILL that will successfully remove the hatchling problem is locking the secure container during raid. It doesn't change in raid mechanics, it can't  be abused or manipulated, it doesnt affect anything other than loading loot into your container, it still keeps the things you bring in safe and that's all that matters. So please BSG just lock the secure containers for a month and adjust loot spawns accordingly to accommodate the influx in market supply that'll get hit. 

 

Making hatchlings tagged and cursed opens up a whole world of manipulation to in raid mechanics.

I dont think they can do much about the secure containers since they were paid for. Might run into some legal red tape if you offer a feature for extra money, and then take that feature away. Though to be honest I paid for the EoD addition of the game for the extra stash space, I only ever put keys in my gamma and some emergency meds and ammo.

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Beefyrulz
On 2/6/2020 at 5:02 PM, skyflashde said:

Ok, as a noob that can't really play this game, I can tell you right away why I will never enter into any raid as a PMC other than naked.

The reason is:

This game is so poorly designed, that I have zero benefit of even having a gun with me.

The few times I actually brought a gun with me (my first raids) I mostly got killed without having fired a shot. So I stopped bringing a gun. The few times I actually shot a gun, my enemy was in full armor and my noob bullets didnt even hurt him.

In order to continue playing the game, I need to make more money in raids than I lose. If I bring a gun with me, I cannot do that, because any gun is this game is so friggin expensive, that I can not make up for the loss in any case.

So yeah... I can tell you a few dozen things that would make this game playable, but obviously every player that now is full gear, feeding on noobs like me that have no chance in hell to EVER become better or even make any money or get items, will object to those ideas, so whats the point?

Basic game design was just completely fucked up in this game.

- If people need guns to play the game but lose them on death, the most basic guns need to be very cheap or even free.

- Any player, especially new players, should statistically make more money in a raid than they spend, even if they play bad. They don't.

- If people need guns to play the game (and the economy depends on other people having loot with them), it shouldn't even be allowed to join a game without one.

- It shouldn't even be possible to end up in a situation where you cant play the game at all cause you dont have a gun, medkit, whatever.

- It shouldn't even be possible to end up in a situation where both Scav AND PMC can't be played cause of cooldown.

- If the game design (economy of raid rewards vs. money lost dying) depends on people looting large items, it shouldnt even be possible to enter a game without backpack, cause you cant even loot.

- If I need to play Scav to make money (thus I have to avoid any fights where I could die) it doesnt make any sense to design Scavs as a threat to PMCs, because I will try to avoid them at all cost.

- If I need to play PMC naked because the economy tells me it brings the most benefit, why is PMC the main char of the game? Only time I currently REALLY play the game is as Scav.

- Bringing medkits into a raid is completely useless. I have never been hurt in a raid yet, I usually die in 1 second or less without knowing from where the shot came. So whats even the point of medkits? Especially if you need the secure container to store loot.

- What is even the purpose of the PMC still being hurt after he dies in a raid? It makes the player either wait or use money to heal him. As a noob, you dont have that money anyway, so you have to wait. But playing as a noob is bad enough as it is, cause the game doesnt make any fun at all. So why let a noob player wait for healing? Is that supposed to be fun or useful for anything?

- The most basic item you need is ammunition. Why is it that expensive, especially the basic, bad ammunition?

- The economy is very badly designed. Why is it very easy for rich players to stay rich and very hard for new players to not go completely bankrupt? All prices are too high, as rich players are so rich that they need a money sink to even get rid of the money, while no new player can even afford a gun.

- Why is the game designed in a way that full armored and equipped players can deny everyone else good loot spots and extracts by camping there? There are too few spots on the edges of the maps, so that basicly every spot is camped.

Tons more things in this game that are just wrong... and none have anything to do with this game being "hardcore". The game is just "hardcore" unbalanced in almost every way possible, especially economy and raid rewards.

Players will do what makes sense... so of course 80% of the players don't bring a gun into a raid or even medkits.

I would recommend a few changes to his game:

1. There should be a free rifle and backpack if you dont have any in your stash. If you do have one though, you shouldnt be allowed to enter a game without one.

2. The PMC should respawn with full health if you play a Scav mission. The Scav should go off cooldown if you play a PMC mission. So in any case, after you finish a game, you can play again and dont have to wait.

3. Drastically reduce all prices so the difference between poor and rich is less. Put a low maximum money limit into the game so you get back some control over risk vs. reward. Cause there is no risk for rich people.

4. Put more loot on the edges of the maps instead of centralizing loot in a few places where huge gunfights start. That way, poor players can loot stuff and the loot doesnt always stockpile on people with full armor and perfect sniper rifles and grenades (those players will of course own those centralized loot spots).

So yeah... I will wait for this game to become good. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

Have fun... haha... that was a good one.

A few things,
you admit you know nothing, but are trying to make suggestions for 'improvements'
Literally every thing I read on your post is 100% the result of inexperience and unwillingness to adapt to the situation.
Yes, dealing with geared players can be extremely frustrating when under-equipped, and in some cases might even seem impossible,
but it's not. There's already solutions to every issue you listed.
You need to understand that Tarkov is unlike any other shooter. You absolutely can not come at this game like it's CoD, or BF, or any other mainstream shooter. Specific guns have specific applications, specific ammo has specific applications. Everything behaves differently and it's your job to know the difference.
I can understand that it might not seem fun, or interesting, but Tarkov is 100% a game that you have to study for. You need to study market prices to figure out what's worth looting and what's not. You need to study maps to figure out where that loot spawns, where scavs spawns, what angles/spots are most effective for fighting in specific area's. What paths players will take to get to certain areas based on what's happening on the map. You need to practice in offline mode to learn how your weapon handles and how your bullets behave. You can't just throw 18 rounds in a Grach and expect to walk out with millions of roubles like you're a highly-skilled, highly knowledged streamer. It's just not going to happen.
Honestly, buy cheap automatic guns, and invest in remotely decent ammo. A stock 74u with some BT is perfectly viable even for fighting moderately geared players. The single most important thing is to play smart, know your target, figure out how to fight them.
If you have a TT and you fight a guy with a Vulkan, faceshield, a Zhuk, and a meta HK, You Will Die 100% of the time for the simple fact that you chose to fight a guy with in full-kit when all you have is a TT. The smart thing to do in that case is simply avoid him. Don't let him see you, don't let him hear you (if by some miracle he hasn't already), pray to Nikita that he doesn't check the hole you're hiding in. Sometimes you'll get unlucky and die, even when you make the smart play. That's just Tarkov.
Not to mention Use your god dammed scav runs, you want to get free guns and equipment? You literally do every 30-45 minutes or so.


"Oh but I have to extract with it. I want it handed to me on a silver platter with a warm box a milk while Prapor strokes my head gently and whispers in my ear that everything will be okay as he kisses me tenderly on the forehead before leaving two bitcoins tucked snugly under my goose-down pillow."


Personally I hate the mentality of "Just git gud", but honest to god that is the solution here.
I've had plenty of highly profitable raids where I don't even ecounter a single living being, not even a scav, but extract with like half a mil in random garbage.
Make use of your secure container, take basic meds, bring cheap weapons, hunt scavs, avoid players, use insurance, study the game.
You're not good at the game because you don't even know what game you're playing or how it's played, and that's just facts. 

Edited by Beefyrulz
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skyflashde
vor 12 Stunden schrieb Beefyrulz:

A few things,
you admit you know nothing, but are trying to make suggestions for 'improvements'
Literally every thing I read on your post is 100% the result of inexperience and unwillingness to adapt to the situation.
Yes, dealing with geared players can be extremely frustrating when under-equipped, and in some cases might even seem impossible,
but it's not. There's already solutions to every issue you listed.
You need to understand that Tarkov is unlike any other shooter. You absolutely can not come at this game like it's CoD, or BF, or any other mainstream shooter. Specific guns have specific applications, specific ammo has specific applications. Everything behaves differently and it's your job to know the difference.
I can understand that it might not seem fun, or interesting, but Tarkov is 100% a game that you have to study for. You need to study market prices to figure out what's worth looting and what's not. You need to study maps to figure out where that loot spawns, where scavs spawns, what angles/spots are most effective for fighting in specific area's. What paths players will take to get to certain areas based on what's happening on the map. You need to practice in offline mode to learn how your weapon handles and how your bullets behave. You can't just throw 18 rounds in a Grach and expect to walk out with millions of roubles like you're a highly-skilled, highly knowledged streamer. It's just not going to happen.
Honestly, buy cheap automatic guns, and invest in remotely decent ammo. A stock 74u with some BT is perfectly viable even for fighting moderately geared players. The single most important thing is to play smart, know your target, figure out how to fight them.
If you have a TT and you fight a guy with a Vulkan, faceshield, a Zhuk, and a meta HK, You Will Die 100% of the time for the simple fact that you chose to fight a guy with in full-kit when all you have is a TT. The smart thing to do in that case is simply avoid him. Don't let him see you, don't let him hear you (if by some miracle he hasn't already), pray to Nikita that he doesn't check the hole you're hiding in. Sometimes you'll get unlucky and die, even when you make the smart play. That's just Tarkov.
Not to mention Use your god dammed scav runs, you want to get free guns and equipment? You literally do every 30-45 minutes or so.


"Oh but I have to extract with it. I want it handed to me on a silver platter with a warm box a milk while Prapor strokes my head gently and whispers in my ear that everything will be okay as he kisses me tenderly on the forehead before leaving two bitcoins tucked snugly under my goose-down pillow."


Personally I hate the mentality of "Just git gud", but honest to god that is the solution here.
I've had plenty of highly profitable raids where I don't even ecounter a single living being, not even a scav, but extract with like half a mil in random garbage.
Make use of your secure container, take basic meds, bring cheap weapons, hunt scavs, avoid players, use insurance, study the game.
You're not good at the game because you don't even know what game you're playing or how it's played, and that's just facts. 

 

Dude, I know how to play the game, but thats not the point. I dont have to be good at it, I just look at the mechanics and do the math.

The point is, the GAME DESIGN IS BADLY BROKEN.

You can see that because the players don't play the game as intended (which would be ok if that was all) but instead cheat their way through the whole game and ignore all the mechanics that are intended to make the game good (but won't).

It's absolutely pointless to argue that if you get better in the game you will die less often. Nobody cares.

There is no reason to play the game as intended and become better. You can become rich by ignoring all the game mechanics and ignoring the whole genre (shooter? lol) of the game. And actually, that is the easiest, most riskless and fastest way to get rich.

So why on earth would I "study" the game, bring meds, whatever into a raid IF THERE IS NO REASON TO DO SO?

I can just play Scav and become rich, or I can do PMC "almost hatchling" runs with just a helmet on and become filthy rich, all of that without having ANY clue about how to shoot at someone. I don't have to know about weapons, ammo or any of that crap, cause I will never ever use them anyway.... I will just RUN if someone shoots at me.

Dude, I dont even need keybindings for shooting and aiming... I can put running on the left AND right mouse button.

Yeah sometimes I will die...but I dont lose anything. In the few raids I survive, I make millions.

So tell me, please, how this game makes ANY sense or how you can say that this is a game you want to play?

 

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Muzial

Sky makes some very good points i feel like many newer players can relate to.

you do a scav run and extract, move all your stuff onto your PMC and maybe spend few thousand rubles on ammo and upgrades to your new kit only to get killed in a couple minutes. 

now your Scav is on cooldown for 5-10 minutes still and you need to pay for healing, food and drink as well as a whole new kit. Under level 5 you can't use the flea market so that's not an option. The only way to learn anything is to use google, youtube or search the forums.

By now your scav is ready but this time you die and your PMC is still recovering.

are more people starting to see the flaws in the game at this point?

Edited by Muzial
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Darksys0815
vor 20 Stunden schrieb skyflashde:

 

Dude, I know how to play the game, but thats not the point. I dont have to be good at it, I just look at the mechanics and do the math.

The point is, the GAME DESIGN IS BADLY BROKEN.

You can see that because the players don't play the game as intended (which would be ok if that was all) but instead cheat their way through the whole game and ignore all the mechanics that are intended to make the game good (but won't).

It's absolutely pointless to argue that if you get better in the game you will die less often. Nobody cares.

There is no reason to play the game as intended and become better. You can become rich by ignoring all the game mechanics and ignoring the whole genre (shooter? lol) of the game. And actually, that is the easiest, most riskless and fastest way to get rich.

So why on earth would I "study" the game, bring meds, whatever into a raid IF THERE IS NO REASON TO DO SO?

I can just play Scav and become rich, or I can do PMC "almost hatchling" runs with just a helmet on and become filthy rich, all of that without having ANY clue about how to shoot at someone. I don't have to know about weapons, ammo or any of that crap, cause I will never ever use them anyway.... I will just RUN if someone shoots at me.

Dude, I dont even need keybindings for shooting and aiming... I can put running on the left AND right mouse button.

Yeah sometimes I will die...but I dont lose anything. In the few raids I survive, I make millions.

So tell me, please, how this game makes ANY sense or how you can say that this is a game you want to play?

 

You do nothing. You could not play this game. I play this game since one month. I have 20 Mill. and a full stash. Iam level 25 and never played a ducking hatched run.

About the medics...i could not remember how often this poo saved my life. somtimes i get a shoot and iam down. but in 95% of all cases i loose a leg or a arm or bleed or what ever. AND MY ducking MEDS SAVED MY LIFE...everytime.

So dont tell me you know how this games works, you have no idea. Nothing. 

You play the wrong game. This is not a ducking "get rich" simulator. This is a team beased "i will survive and shoot if i need loot shooter".
Its all about the intense fights. duck your Hatched Runs...what do you do with the money? play gear for a ducking million and die in the first 5 Min because you dont have any idea how to play this game?


No Idea which game you both play but in 98% of all Raids iam alive for the time of the scav cooldown. PMC down/ extract > going smoke > enter raid with Scav. I play this game for 3h +-hours per day and need not to wait for the scav in the most cases.

Jesus, players with your mindset are cancer. Do you ever have an good fight 1vs.1? no camping bullshit. a real 1 vs. 1 which kicks your the ducking adrenalin through your body? sweaty hands...you heart pumping and you sit on the map, bleeding, your char ist almost dead. but you manged it WITH THE MEDS! and exit with a full backback. THIS IS TARKOV! Not your ducking Hatched runs. 
 

Hope they lock the secure for hatchis....then duck your hatched runs and die like a real men in a good firefight.

 

iam out. have fun or not...what ever.

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skyflashde
vor 1 Stunde schrieb Darksys0815:

You do nothing. You could not play this game. I play this game since one month. I have 20 Mill. and a full stash. Iam level 25 and never played a ducking hatched run.

About the medics...i could not remember how often this poo saved my life. somtimes i get a shoot and iam down. but in 95% of all cases i loose a leg or a arm or bleed or what ever. AND MY ducking MEDS SAVED MY LIFE...everytime.

So dont tell me you know how this games works, you have no idea. Nothing. 

You play the wrong game. This is not a ducking "get rich" simulator. This is a team beased "i will survive and shoot if i need loot shooter".
Its all about the intense fights. duck your Hatched Runs...what do you do with the money? play gear for a ducking million and die in the first 5 Min because you dont have any idea how to play this game?


No Idea which game you both play but in 98% of all Raids iam alive for the time of the scav cooldown. PMC down/ extract > going smoke > enter raid with Scav. I play this game for 3h +-hours per day and need not to wait for the scav in the most cases.

Jesus, players with your mindset are cancer. Do you ever have an good fight 1vs.1? no camping bullshit. a real 1 vs. 1 which kicks your the ducking adrenalin through your body? sweaty hands...you heart pumping and you sit on the map, bleeding, your char ist almost dead. but you manged it WITH THE MEDS! and exit with a full backback. THIS IS TARKOV! Not your ducking Hatched runs. 
 

Hope they lock the secure for hatchis....then duck your hatched runs and die like a real men in a good firefight.

 

iam out. have fun or not...what ever.

 

See, nobody else gives a duck about what YOU think is fun in the game.

There are people that dont even play ANY map, they just play the friggin market and make millions there. Other people want to be rich, so they do hatchet runs, cause its fun for them.

Currently I dont really care about PvP in Tarkov, because the game is not dependent on skill, but mostly on equipment and knowledge, which you gain by just playing a lot. That is not really serious PvP for me, that is just who plays longer and has the bigger ePenis in his stash.

So who, as a level 5 player, should I play PvP against in Tarkov?

I would be going up against people with AC 6 armor, full helmet with faceplate and multiple weapons with the best ammunition, and of course the completely OP thermals, that prevent me from hiding from any of these guys. Of course the scopes as well, I wouldnt even see them.

If I get even close to any equipped PMC, I will just instantly die. There is no risk for these guys, they will kill me FAR outside of the view range of my weapons with their thermals and long range scopes. Even if I run up behind them and shoot them in the head, they will just turn around and kill me. Happened to me multiple times with pistol runs.

Playing PvP in Tarkov is just ducking boring and takes about 1 second if you are under equipped.

So, no, my heart is neither pumping, nor do I feed adrenaline, nor do I have sweaty hands in Tarkov.

I never was bleeding in Tarkov either, nor did I have broken bones or anything like that. I die with one shot.... so how could I ever bleed and still be in game?

For me, Tarkov is about avoiding any other player in the game and bringing home loot. And that actually is fun most of the time.

So if I had to describe the goal of Tarkov to a friend, I would say the goal of the game is to avoid PvP by all means. And that certainly is the most lucrative way of playing.

I am just not sure if that was intended by the game design... but it is what it is.

 

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Muzial
3 hours ago, Darksys0815 said:

I play this game since one month. I have 20 Mill. and a full stash. Iam level 25 and never played a ducking hatched run.

Is it safe to assume you've been playing with maybe 2-3 higher level friends who open all your doors, tell you where to stand and when to move as well as what to loot. it does not sound like you've been playing the same game the rest us new players have. Please elaborate on your "New Player" experience and how you managed to overcome the dramatically steep learning curve this game offers.

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Beefyrulz
4 hours ago, skyflashde said:

 

See, nobody else gives a duck about what YOU think is fun in the game.

There are people that dont even play ANY map, they just play the friggin market and make millions there. Other people want to be rich, so they do hatchet runs, cause its fun for them.

Currently I dont really care about PvP in Tarkov, because the game is not dependent on skill, but mostly on equipment and knowledge, which you gain by just playing a lot. That is not really serious PvP for me, that is just who plays longer and has the bigger ePenis in his stash.

So who, as a level 5 player, should I play PvP against in Tarkov?

I would be going up against people with AC 6 armor, full helmet with faceplate and multiple weapons with the best ammunition, and of course the completely OP thermals, that prevent me from hiding from any of these guys. Of course the scopes as well, I wouldnt even see them.

If I get even close to any equipped PMC, I will just instantly die. There is no risk for these guys, they will kill me FAR outside of the view range of my weapons with their thermals and long range scopes. Even if I run up behind them and shoot them in the head, they will just turn around and kill me. Happened to me multiple times with pistol runs.

Playing PvP in Tarkov is just ducking boring and takes about 1 second if you are under equipped.

So, no, my heart is neither pumping, nor do I feed adrenaline, nor do I have sweaty hands in Tarkov.

I never was bleeding in Tarkov either, nor did I have broken bones or anything like that. I die with one shot.... so how could I ever bleed and still be in game?

For me, Tarkov is about avoiding any other player in the game and bringing home loot. And that actually is fun most of the time.

So if I had to describe the goal of Tarkov to a friend, I would say the goal of the game is to avoid PvP by all means. And that certainly is the most lucrative way of playing.

I am just not sure if that was intended by the game design... but it is what it is.

I don't know where you get your information but, but I think you're drastically over-inflating your experience, or severely misunderstanding what's happening in your games.
So people are both running maxed-out top-tier meta kits because that's the only way to play this game and you keep dying because you don't have gear, and everybody is running no gear making millions on hatchet runs exclusively because gear is a useless waste of money? 100% of the playerbase are doing both things?
I'll tell you what, I'm willing to bet the number of people who actually run thermals regularly is actually extremely low. Either most people aren't comfortable dropping 100-200k on a FLIR or REAP-IR when most optics do well enough on their own so long as you're not blind, or they can't afford like 3.5mil T-7's because, surprise surprise, people don't just make millions doing hatchet runs like it's nothing. Sure you could grind hatchet runs for like a few hours a day and make a pretty good chunk of money that way, maybe a few mil or so if you're lucky or go to the good loot-spots. But guess what? Other people want to go to those loot spots too. Guess what else, people who actually know how to play the game are going to have real weapons, with decent ammo, and armor, and meds, and they're going to smoke your ass because you decided not having a gun is an effective/efficient way to play a shooting game.
Yet you want to say;

On 2/17/2020 at 2:04 PM, skyflashde said:

You can see that because the players don't play the game as intended (which would be ok if that was all) but instead cheat their way through the whole game and ignore all the mechanics that are intended to make the game good (but won't).

I'm sorry, who's not playing the game as intended?
Not to mention you complain about being able to run out of money because you keep dying bringing in actual gear, and how it's bullshit that it can be possible to not be able to afford guns/gear because you die too much, yet you're complaining that it's possible to make decent money playing the game without any gear, or by doing a scav run?
So which is it? Do you not make enough money, or do you make too much?
Is having gear broken and OP, or is not having gear broken and OP?
Oh yeah and so you say you're level 5? That's maybe 2-3 halfway decent PMC raids, if that. So you've played this game only a handful of times, but you know exactly how everything works, and how things are broken, and how they should be changed? You? The guy with maybe 4 hours in-raid? Mr.MasterOfGameDesign?
You've already admitted to knowing nothing, yet you insist on arguing that you know exactly what you're talking about.
Oh and then there's this gem of conflict too;

4 hours ago, skyflashde said:

If I get even close to any equipped PMC, I will just instantly die. There is no risk for these guys, they will kill me FAR outside of the view range of my weapons with their thermals and long range scopes. Even if I run up behind them and shoot them in the head, they will just turn around and kill me. Happened to me multiple times with pistol runs.

So either you're getting killed further than you can see, or you're getting killed because you stepped on a geared guys toes and didn't know how to aim? Which is it? Because I've been able to kill fully kitted guys with just a pistol in the past. Just last month I did a reserve raid and hid in weird little nook that nobody checks. So in-comes geared guy, fights off a bunch of raiders and whatnot. When he's done, he stands still for a little bit, I line up my shot, steady my aim, and shoot that bad guy right in the mouth with my Grach. Wouldn't you know it, but he died from that because I actually know how to aim my shots. My guy had an MP7 with an A-18 rig, Ulach and a nice big-ole bag for me to vacuum up loot. I ended up dying to raiders later anyway, but not because I had gear, or because the game is broken. I died because I made poorly thought out plays and I got rushed by the raiders while I was reloading.

There's myriad factors in either case about how they could have seen you at range (doesn't always have to be thermals), like you don't know the map at all, you don't know if you're standing at a high-traffic area, you don't know if you're actually more visible than you think you are, you don't know if people might be in front of behind you, you don't know if some guy just happen to get lucky and was scanning the area you happen to be sitting, you don't know if that guy saw you run into that area you were hiding and never saw you leave so he knew you were there the whole time. Or they saw you for a split second, lost you, and just fired through the bushes at you and got lucky. All the while you think in your head that you're perfectly safe, 100% camouflaged, and that the only people who could possibly see you would be someone with thermals. When in reality you just don't know what you're doing.


Then there's the issue of getting in close with a pistol.
Maybe he had a helmet, and you shot him in the back of the helmet which deflected/stopped the bullet (because yes, helmets can do that in tarkov), or maybe your sights weren't as aligned as you thought they were and when you though you were aiming at the face, your bullet went upward more and hit him in the brim of the helmet. Or maybe your aim just isn't as good as you think it is with only 4 hours in-game and maybe you didn't hit his head at all. Or maybe it was an honest-to-god bug or desync because guess what? Tarkov is in Beta and that happens. Or maybe the thing he was wearing on his head that you you thought wasn't armored, actually is, and your round deflected off because you were using poo ammo that can be deflected even by a class 1 helmet like the Tank helmet. Or (and admittedly I don't even know if this is true) maybe your bullet literally deflected off that person's skull, because y'know, realistic ballistics, and maybe Tarkov actually simulates the hardness of a human skull when factoring in bullet pen/damage on someones unarmored head.

Don't get me wrong, Tarkov does have its issues, but the things you mentioned? 100% a YOU problem, because you don't bother to learn how the game actually functions and instead complain that the makarov can't 1-tap a vulcan. If avoiding PVP is how you want to play this game, that is totally a viable strategy, but you're actually hurting the community if you're going to tell new/future players that 'the goal of the game is to avoid PvP by all means. And that certainly is the most lucrative way of playing', because that's just an outright lie. I mean it can be lucrative, but you make it out like bringing in real gear makes it impossible to make money. You could bring in a 80-100k kit, if that, and walk out with a few mil in a single raid if you're just a little bit lucky and halfway skilled/knowledged. Or you could zerg-rush loot spawns as a hatchling with zero knowledge or skill and get out with maybe 100-200k if you're really lucky and don't get shot before you get to a decent loot spot.
That doesn't make the game broken.


Then, even if generating money was stupid easy and you could more than easily make an absurd amount of money with no gear, then guess what? Now you can buy actual gear and play the game as intended and do quests, and progress, and level up, and upgrade your hideout. Because you can't beat this game with money alone. There's no option for "I have 1bil roubles, beat game now pls."

Honestly, you need to learn how to play the game and how things actually work before complaining about what's broken and what should be changed, because you haven't got a clue.
You think you've mastered this game because you got out of a hatchet run with a suppressor or a bitcoin in your Gamma once and now you're under the impression of "Yes, I bought in with 0 roubles, extracted with 100k+ once, therefor I have theoretically infinite money. Which means tHiS gAmE iS bRoKeN."
The things you complain about are the solution to the things you complain about. Or has nobody taught you that the square peg goes in the square hole?

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Darksys0815
vor 12 Stunden schrieb Muzial:

Is it safe to assume you've been playing with maybe 2-3 higher level friends who open all your doors, tell you where to stand and when to move as well as what to loot. it does not sound like you've been playing the same game the rest us new players have. Please elaborate on your "New Player" experience and how you managed to overcome the dramatically steep learning curve this game offers.

The Truth is, i play 95% solo and the rest of time with my brother, level 16.

Let me explain how i play resort... first, i buy all keys for resort, put them in a keychain/ doc case and put this thing in my secure.

Now i pick a lvl 3 helmet, backpack, a ak with 1,2 Mags some flashs  and  BEST in Slot Ammo and go to restort. In 90% of all runs, i may see 1,2 players, sometimes 1,2 scavs.

i go to the roof and enter restort via the door at the roof.
Wait 30 sec./ 1 minute to hear any steps or shots and check the floor...door by door. after looting a room, i wait again and hear if there are some steps. nothing > next door

if iam alsmost full, i go back the same way and leave the restort to the fence and run to exit. done!

Yes, i get killed sometimes, it happens, but in 7/10 runs i survive. depending how late it is. i play most of time in the evening/ night. > less players on server.

Let me explain how i get the cash for all the keys (2-3 mill)

I run every time shoreline or interchange. Scav every time if ready.

Shoreline: depending to spawn, hidden stashes at scav tower > pier building > gas station > if exit tunnel or damaged street > scav island and exit.

Interchange: if  i spawn outside. i run only hidden stashes.
If spawn Oli > run at the wall inide to emercom exit and loot everything on the way to exit. try not to kill scavs and leave.
Outside i check the ramp, wall, "wood" for any exit camper and run, run, run. > Exit

If iam lucky i have gasoline (blue), propane and some loose poo. 

If i need Money > i run this "safe" routes. 7,8/10 runs > alive

Its all about knowing the maps, find ways to get out without have any contact. if a way is blocked via 2 scavs or players...search for a solution. be creative.

if i get spotted, i fight. Running is in the most cases no option on interchange. good players hunt you down.

i play every evening, night for 3,4 hours and make loot runs at both maps. I die, thats the game. but i survive more then i die.

With a good Run as Scav you get 250k +- .

Yesterday, spawn as scav - labs card inside. Running directly to exit. 170k for 3 Minutes in Raid.

I disassemble all weapons with no need and sell expensive parts on flea and the rest to Skier and Mechanic.

I check which stuff i need for active quests and next upgrades in hideout and SELL EVERYTHING other from this "trash" - expect purple things.0

Yesterday i clear my 2 Scav Boxes...around 1,5 Mill with cables, lcd, pipes and all the other trash i dont need.

 

I play only gear which i could compensate with 1,2 scav runs.
So i never loose too much money.

The Meds i get via my hideout most of time.

Learn the guns. Pick 1-3 weapons, learn how to hit with this guns and play this guns.
Do not switch weapons at every raid.

Test weapons against scavs in offline mode.
PLAY Offline, learn the maps, the spawns, the exits. learn how to win against 5,6 scavs they push you.

I play every time a hunter + best ammo with big scope to snipe and a ak 103 modded for less recoil. not to much but a bit > reason: that thing kills and its cheap. if i die > no worries. most players do not pickup this guns, so i get them back via insurance.

 

The Reason why i survive solo the most of time...? iam solo > know the safe farm spots, know the routes that other players take to get out. and i play slow, hear and check surroundings. you could hear anything, you hear if a enemy going in his inventory, you hear if he use his scope, you have to listen! this is the best tipp i can give you. Listen! learn how things like movement sounds like.

Next "Hint" buy always good or best ammo. expensive? yes but they kill. you can found pictures at google which show you the best ammo type for each caliber.

AND KNOW THE ULITMATE HINT OF ANY HINTS: Don't be greedy!!!!! Less Loot is better than nothing. If you see a Scav dead at Interchange near the ramp. ITS A TRAP! dont loot this poor bastard, check your surroundings and leave fast as you can from cover to cover.  In 8/ 10 cases he die at the beginning. But its possible that you loot him, see nothing and a other player come from behind and kill you. you could not react so fast, trust me. Loot only if its save to do this.

How i learn all this things? Good Question, simple awnser: this forums, youtube, google and play the ducking game. learning by doing. Get killed? Try to figure out what was wrong. Learn from your mistakes. With every death you learn more and more.

I never played with others, only with my brother, since begin or solo.
Iam not a good shooter in this game. I die much, much often. but if this happen, its 99% my fault. 

My greatest issue at begin was, firefights thrill me so hard. hands shaking, heart pumping. This will be only better with every single kill.
After 1 Month, its ok but not gone. And this is the reason why i play this. The Thrill. Never kicked so hard from any Game.

 

Feel free if you have more questions.


 

 

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skyflashde
vor 16 Stunden schrieb Beefyrulz:

I don't know where you get your information but, but I think you're drastically over-inflating your experience, or severely misunderstanding what's happening in your games.

No, in fact the problem is that YOU do not have the experience of playing the current game as a new player. So you will not get the problem.

I recommend you reset your account and then go at it... of course you still have your experience with the maps, that a new player does not have (which makes your experience a lot different), but you will at least get a little glimpse of what I am talking about.

I was explicitly telling you how the game is if you DO NOT have the experience and stash of a long time player. That is the whole problem with the game, no one is saying that you have a problem if your stash is filled with millions and you know all the maps by heart.

You obviously don't seem to understand that this game rises and falls with the influx of NEW PLAYERS.

The most important thing in game design is to make sure that new players become old players, and that happens because the way to get there is fun and engaging. And that is where this game totally fails.

So not sure why you posted that wall of text. No one gives a poo what you think how people should play the game. No one was asking you for advice how to play the game either.

I don't even care if what I feel and experience is right or wrong. Cause it does not matter. How I experience the game is entirely subjective.... and the gameplay as a new player was terrible up to this point. I talked to many people on Discord, and every new player thinks that Tarkov is a horribly designed game, while very long term players think its fine (and they farm those new players).

In fact, you could say Tarkov is a game designed around griefing. I haven't up to this point witnessed any meaningful PvP in Tarkov. When do these full geared players actually fight among themselves? Point is, they don't. They farm noobs and Scavs and if they see a high geared player they run if possible. That I HAVE seen. And then you have groups of 5 farming geared players. Again... if they see another group.. they run.

Some people keep playing cause of friends, some people play the game as "not intended", but most people just quit. And that is just a sad state for a game to be in.

I came here for a hardcore, realistic shooter. But it is not. It is not a realistic game, its not a shooter, and it sure as hell is not hardcore. Only thing hardcore is that the game is unbalanced to a point where most players are either cowards, cheater or griefers.

I shot people from point blank into the face with a shotgun.... they didn't die.

I shot people in the neck with a 7.62 assault rifle... they didn't die.

I emptied a full magazine of my MP5 into a guys armor from 10cm away... he didn't even flinch... just turned around and killed me with one shot.

So yeah, next time I hear anything about realism in this game I am gonna puke.

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StudTrunkMonkey

as a LVL 15 noob i have to say that i have read both angles from Veterans and other noobs.......I see certain valid points with Sky, i think some of his points are decent and some get lost in the dick measuring fest......I really like the game for its unpredictability side....

COD, MW, BF shooters in a VERY short window from new player to old gets very predictable, the kill zones are always few and exploited,

EFT  with exception of some smaller maps is at least so far unpredictable, someone is trying to complete a TASK, the other guy is a Hatchet dude like him or hate him, then make the veteran player is bored one map and wants to see how many kills he can get while the other veteran player is loot hungry.......Then we add the Scav and player Scav, so many threats to consider and you cant just R&G jack rabbit through the map......

Certainly the game is Beta and changes will come as the game grows and research is complete, IMO, if we can freely speak ideas or dislikes without being over the top know it alls and not make things personal it would go much further.......

Our attitudes should be welcoming and community driven to be better both for each other and for the future of this game....

That's all

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Beefyrulz
8 hours ago, skyflashde said:

No, in fact the problem is that YOU do not have the experience of playing the current game as a new player. So you will not get the problem.

I recommend you reset your account and then go at it... of course you still have your experience with the maps, that a new player does not have (which makes your experience a lot different), but you will at least get a little glimpse of what I am talking about.

I was explicitly telling you how the game is if you DO NOT have the experience and stash of a long time player. That is the whole problem with the game, no one is saying that you have a problem if your stash is filled with millions and you know all the maps by heart.

You obviously don't seem to understand that this game rises and falls with the influx of NEW PLAYERS.

The most important thing in game design is to make sure that new players become old players, and that happens because the way to get there is fun and engaging. And that is where this game totally fails.

So not sure why you posted that wall of text. No one gives a poo what you think how people should play the game. No one was asking you for advice how to play the game either.

I don't even care if what I feel and experience is right or wrong. Cause it does not matter. How I experience the game is entirely subjective.... and the gameplay as a new player was terrible up to this point. I talked to many people on Discord, and every new player thinks that Tarkov is a horribly designed game, while very long term players think its fine (and they farm those new players).

In fact, you could say Tarkov is a game designed around griefing. I haven't up to this point witnessed any meaningful PvP in Tarkov. When do these full geared players actually fight among themselves? Point is, they don't. They farm noobs and Scavs and if they see a high geared player they run if possible. That I HAVE seen. And then you have groups of 5 farming geared players. Again... if they see another group.. they run.

Some people keep playing cause of friends, some people play the game as "not intended", but most people just quit. And that is just a sad state for a game to be in.

I came here for a hardcore, realistic shooter. But it is not. It is not a realistic game, its not a shooter, and it sure as hell is not hardcore. Only thing hardcore is that the game is unbalanced to a point where most players are either cowards, cheater or griefers.

I shot people from point blank into the face with a shotgun.... they didn't die.

I shot people in the neck with a 7.62 assault rifle... they didn't die.

I emptied a full magazine of my MP5 into a guys armor from 10cm away... he didn't even flinch... just turned around and killed me with one shot.

So yeah, next time I hear anything about realism in this game I am gonna puke.

I don't have the experience of a new player? I'm sorry I've been playing this since alpha and I've played every wipe, and typically wait a month or two anyway before I even start playing since early wipe is a slough anyway. Just a bunch of people full-sprinting around trying to kill and loot everything and anything and level up traders as fast as possible 24/7. It's absolute chaos. By time I usually start playing, most average people are already at least 20+. So yeah, I do know what it's like to play as a new player later into the wipe, cuz I've done it every single wipe.
Maybe I don't know what it's like to play this game as someone who has zero experience with the game, but it's not like I can just wipe all my gameplay experience and knowledge each wipe too.
Not to mention, I believe it's been said by the developers themselves (citation needed), 'Tarkov is not meant to be a fun experience'. Like sure you can group up with some buddies, do some stupid stuff, see some wacky things, but ultimately tarkov is not built around that experience. It's built for people to get fucked on until they figure out how things work.
Plus you ask for hardcore realism? Tell me, what's more realistic than things being a little unbalanced or unfair? Because guess what, real life isn't fair. Real war isn't fair. Some guns really are just better than other guns. Sometimes bullets do just evaporate against certain armors because those armors are specifically designed to destroy those bullets. 5 people vs 1 person is a sure fight any day of the week because guess what? In real life there's power in numbers. If this game were balanced in such a way that 1 person would have a reasonably fair fight against a 5 man squad, then this game would just be CoD with better weapon modding.
There was a time when a lot of veteran players complained a lot about how cheap and effective the mosin is. The old-ass pre-WWI era rifle was dropping people with top-tier modern armors, pimped out meta guns, people losing million roubles kits to a 30k wooden rifle. If that isn't the definition of realism then I don't know what is.

Maybe it's not quite the same thing, but read the story of Simo Häyhä. Finnish farmer/hunter turned sniper who supposedly racked upwards of 500 kills against real god dammed soldiers with automatic guns and armor (presumably). But hey I guess Simo is just a cheating, abusing coward taking advantage of bullshit game mechanics, right?

You're a level 6, and I assume this is your first wipe in tarkov? So you probably jumped on the game because you saw some big streamer playing or something, and now you think you're just going to play like them and automatically win all the time. When the reality is that there is so much more going on inside the mind of that person you were watching. Their map knowledge, game knowledge, weapons handling experience, player habits, AI patterns, literally years of experience, all these things that you have no clue about. Or even the fact that they also die a lot, they just don't always post that footage because it's usually not as entertaining as ,"empty makarov zero to hero 5 man squad wipe 30mil rouble 500k exp labs run".
Plus;

8 hours ago, skyflashde said:

I was explicitly telling you how the game is if you DO NOT have the experience and stash of a long time player. That is the whole problem with the game, no one is saying that you have a problem if your stash is filled with millions and you know all the maps by heart.

You're literally complaining that the problem with the game is that it's hard if you don't have experience with it, and that it's the games fault. Like yeah no ducking poo.
Professional Basketball is hard when I don't know the rules of the game. Major league Baseball is hard when I don't have the hand-eye coordination or training to hit a ball going 95mph with an wooden stick. Man professional gambling is hard when you don't know how numbers or statistics work. But those are just poorly designed activities. It's the games fault I can't shoot a hoop, or hit a homer, or win the jackpot, not me or my inexperience with the activity. No way. I am an Adonis of pure physical fitness, Master of knowledge, perfect in every form, completely infallible. Therefor the issue is not with me.
That's how that works, right?


Have I made my point yet about the reason you struggle with the game is because you refuse to learn how it actually functions yet?
Or are you just going to keep blaming the game for not holding your hand every step of the way making sure you never die to anything just so you can keep pretending you have a clue on what you're talking about?

In order for new players to become old players, they have to play the game. It's not the game or the developers job to perfectly cater to your every whim and facilitate your every play style and ensure that you always win or enjoy the game. You adapt to the game and the people you play with, not the other way around. The sooner you grasp that concept, the sooner you can actually start playing Tarkov.

In Tarkov, you die to a 5-man, you lose that 25mil red keycard because you didn't put it in your gamma fast enough, you run out of ammo in a firefight and die, you do a dozen raids in a row without even turning a profit, you have an insanely profitable scav run and die to a camper 0.1 seconds before you extract, you accidentally open your menu and get shot, you get spotted by a guy using T-7's and die. poo happens, that's Tarkov. But y'know sometimes you accidentally 1-tap some dude in full-kit even though you absolutely weren't expecting to hit that shot. Sometimes you find a bag tossed in a bush filled with loot because some guy had to ditch it for something better or needed to extract. Sometimes you check a scav backpack on a whim and find a key worth a few mil. Sometimes you find a corpse party full of untouched bodies because the last two guys traded. Sometimes you land on a dudes head and he still doesn't notice you. That's Tarkov, poo happens.

I mean for christ-sake, get to level 30 at least then we'll see what you have to say about the game.
Of course I should reiterate too; THIS IS A BETA things are bound to be broken, but not the things you're saying. All things are subject to change, but things you've said are broken are actually fine if you understand how the game works, which you don't.
Go watch some guides. Learn how ammo works, learn how armor works, learn how weapons work. Study the game and learn how its systems and mechanics work before you start trying to suggest how they should be improved. Tarkov is not perfect by any means, but your ideas would surely be a step back for Tarkovs development by any metric.

Edited by Beefyrulz

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GrumpyFox
18 hours ago, StudTrunkMonkey said:

as a LVL 15 noob i have to say that i have read both angles from Veterans and other noobs.......I see certain valid points with Sky, i think some of his points are decent and some get lost in the dick measuring fest......I really like the game for its unpredictability side....

COD, MW, BF shooters in a VERY short window from new player to old gets very predictable, the kill zones are always few and exploited,

EFT  with exception of some smaller maps is at least so far unpredictable, someone is trying to complete a TASK, the other guy is a Hatchet dude like him or hate him, then make the veteran player is bored one map and wants to see how many kills he can get while the other veteran player is loot hungry.......Then we add the Scav and player Scav, so many threats to consider and you cant just R&G jack rabbit through the map......

Certainly the game is Beta and changes will come as the game grows and research is complete, IMO, if we can freely speak ideas or dislikes without being over the top know it alls and not make things personal it would go much further.......

Our attitudes should be welcoming and community driven to be better both for each other and for the future of this game....

That's all

But our attitudes are welcoming, it's just people liky @skyflashde who got "x" amount of tips, explanations and is still level 5 who live in mindset that he knows "the best" and "in-and-out 100% of the game" type of player and trample upon good tips that people give him because he refuse to listen and understand.

It's those type of people who get bashed in this forums mostly, people who want "hardcore" game but at the same time "want free stuff, easy stuff without effort"

The beauty of Tarkov is generally that "unknown" when u get on the map with no idea where enemy could be. Game force you to pay attention to smallest thing you do starting with: how you gear inside menu, what ammo you put inside, to how you play after loading in till extraction.

Some games are purely resident sleeper, sometimes it's warzone all over the place.

I was new player since January and I learned a lot thruu that time, had hard time starting, but now I'm rolling in money and gear while sitting at lvl 40.

I also do hate few aspects of the game which are for example "mosin/hunter meta".

But in this game you have to "LEARN and ADAPT", get bad habits from other games out the window.

Thus if you come to the forums and cry in every post about:

- Game too hard

- Please gib free stuff I can't get over gear fear

- etc etc.

Then you will get bashed especially when you waste other people time to respond to you trying to explain and yet you still live in your little bubble refusing to acknowledge what others say

 

Game can use few changes tho, especially with how containers work and how quests item are lost during raids. I would really love to put quest items in my Secure Container, would make some quests way easier

 

Edited by GrumpyFox

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StudTrunkMonkey

I agree mostly, I don't want one single aspect made easier personally, not even quest......

the issues are the issues and thats basically what i would like to see fixed, Flee Markets scammers, load times, and looking forward to Optimization.....

Sky's request are basically asking for an entirely new or different game and i feel are opposite the Dev's visions for the game, the Devs

have something great here and cant wait for the Polished finished product.....

  

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skyflashde
vor 15 Stunden schrieb Beefyrulz:

I don't have the experience of a new player? I'm sorry I've been playing this since alpha and I've played every wipe, and typically wait a month or two anyway before I even start playing since early wipe is a slough anyway. Just a bunch of people full-sprinting around trying to kill and loot everything and anything and level up traders as fast as possible 24/7. It's absolute chaos. By time I usually start playing, most average people are already at least 20+. So yeah, I do know what it's like to play as a new player later into the wipe, cuz I've done it every single wipe.

 

You still dont get it. Realize... you are not a new player, and you will never be one again in your life.

In fact, by now, I am not a new player either. My stash is full of loot and I got more money than I need. And I can get new loot whenever I want, wipe or not. Cause I know where to go.

Again.... this game needs new players to survive... the hype will soon be over. And old players don't make them money.

If this game does not become a game that attracts new players it will not survive after "release". Maybe it lasts a year, maybe two. I am sure they did plan the money to finish the game they initially designed, but after that... it's new players or game over.

Almost everyone I know has either played Tarkov already or decided that the game sucks and he doesnt wanna play it. As most games that have a beta / alpha / early access this game had its real release already... it's not like there will be a huge influx of new players when the game releases "for real". They will not sell a few million boxes or anything like that, unless there are heavy changes on the gameplay.

With no way to do microtransactions without pissing off the old players and no subscriptions planned, I am not sure how this will work out at all in a good way. I hope some investor just blows his money into this and keeps servers up.

So yeah. This game is just terrible for new players and that needs to change. Lots of things can be done, I dont really care what they do.

To be honest, I see microtransactions in this games future.

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Beefyrulz
6 hours ago, skyflashde said:

You still dont get it. Realize... you are not a new player, and you will never be one again in your life.

In fact, by now, I am not a new player either. My stash is full of loot and I got more money than I need. And I can get new loot whenever I want, wipe or not. Cause I know where to go.

Again.... this game needs new players to survive... the hype will soon be over. And old players don't make them money.

If this game does not become a game that attracts new players it will not survive after "release". Maybe it lasts a year, maybe two. I am sure they did plan the money to finish the game they initially designed, but after that... it's new players or game over.

Almost everyone I know has either played Tarkov already or decided that the game sucks and he doesnt wanna play it. As most games that have a beta / alpha / early access this game had its real release already... it's not like there will be a huge influx of new players when the game releases "for real". They will not sell a few million boxes or anything like that, unless there are heavy changes on the gameplay.

With no way to do microtransactions without pissing off the old players and no subscriptions planned, I am not sure how this will work out at all in a good way. I hope some investor just blows his money into this and keeps servers up.

So yeah. This game is just terrible for new players and that needs to change. Lots of things can be done, I dont really care what they do.

To be honest, I see microtransactions in this games future.

So now your argument is about marketing and business?
This game caters to a specific group of people who want a specific kind of product.

If you're not the type of person who wants this type of product, you never will be, plain and simple.
But the people who do want this type of product will find it, and will buy it if they haven't already.
By this point I don't think BSG cares about trying to make their game appeal to the widest market possible.

They know what demographic they're creating this game for and they're sticking to it.

Plus, even for a Beta this game is pretty popular, even despite its relatively niche market.

As far as future revenue potentional for this game? Micro-transactions aren't the only avenue to generate more money off this IP. They can sell expansions/DLC (Like most games), sell Merchandise, create and sell additional content surrounding the game (like novels, artwork, music, etc.), some of which they've already started doing (y'know, on account of how successful the game is)
So don't you worry about the games financial status because as a player, that's not your concern. More importantly your original argument had absolutely nothing to do with this games survivability or profitability in any capacity. Your argument(s) basically went from,


'This game is broken and bullshit and ME with my 5 hours of experience know exactly how to fix it! Gimme free poo, make me invincible, let new players make more money, make everything cheaper, gimme more loot'

to

'No I know how to play this game. I run around without a gun or ammo in a shooting game about shooting people and I die a lot because I refuse to bring any guns or learn how to aim and shoot people in a shooting game about shooting people because I died once trying to shoot a guy and he was better at shooting than me, and that's bad game design because I should always win without spending any money or taking any risk or playing the game the way I'm supposed to. But I also get super rich by playing without weapons and doing my scav runs and I'm totally super rich but I'm still not going to bring weapons or ammo or learn how the game works and that's the games fault not mine.'
to
'You don't know what it's like to play as a new player! You don't understand! This game is broken because I tried playing it without making any effort to learn how anything functions and I didn't immediately do amazing, so that's the games fault! This game relies solely on new players and will never survive without new players! How dare you try to inform me that I don't know anything and explain why I know nothing! I shouldn't have to learn how to play this game to be able to play this game! This is bullshit the game is broken and bad design and not realistic because I shot a guy once and he didn't immediately drop dead!'
to
'No I didn't mean that you don't know what it's like to play as a new player, I mean you don't know what it's like to not know anything. This game won't survive after release because I don't enjoy it and I represent the entirety of this games possible market. I bet they're going to add micro transactions because there's no other way to make money off this game because nobody else will buy it. I'm a master in games design and marketing so I know for sure how this game will turn out, so listen to me because I'm a genius who knows everything except for how to stop talking out of my ass about things I know nothing about. Still working on that one.'


I'm paraphrasing of course, cuz most of what you said is nonsense, but the same ideas are still there.

I've been saying it from the very start, you don't know a thing about what you're saying. You never did. Your stubbornness is outdone only by your ignorance. This game has been doing perfectly fine for itself even since alpha, so I sincerely doubt that they're suddenly in crisis especially with their largest active player-base to date. I mean christ sake people still buy Skyrim or Oblivion even, among other games, and those are old as poo and arguably half as well designed/thought out. But that's neither here nor there. The point is, everything you've said in this thread is mostly if not completely useless and ill-informed. The fact that you can't even understand why that is, only lends more-so to the fact that you're so far up your own ass you haven't seen the light of day in god-only-knows how long.

I mean quite literally the first thing you said was;

On 2/6/2020 at 5:02 PM, skyflashde said:

Ok, as a noob that can't really play this game[...]

So again, I can't begin to fathom why you insist on arguing with people that you have any idea what you're actually talking about when you yourself basically admitted you don't know poo? I mean you're literally trying to tell people who have been playing this game for years that we totally don't know what we're talking about, and that You do? That You know what's wrong with this game and how it should be fixed? I mean are you really that arrogant that you truly believe you're the outlier here? That you're the only person who can understand how this game works? Like we're all just bumbling along in this game going, "Duhr, pwetty colors, gun go boom boom hurh hurh I win cuz thermal, yaaaay" but you're the only person who puts any serious effort trying to understand this game, and more importantly that you do understand the game? You need a reality check.

Edited by Beefyrulz
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