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Bane5

To Fix Hatchlings: Make Secure Containers Recoverable/Salvageable on Subsequent Raids

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Bane5

So here is a system that I dreamt of that would fix the "I want to die as quick as possible" hatchling problem but still be somewhat forgiving to new and veteran players alike.

----------------------------
Important Details:

1). Insured items in the secure container return instantly on death.

2). Insured items in the secure container remain insured after returning (do not need to pay again).

3). Items that cannot be insured but fall into the food/water or medical use category return instantly in secure containers.

4). Uninsured items (aka loot) in the secure container, do not return to the player's inventory after death, but are still unlootable and hidden to other players.

5). If in a future PMC raid, you spawn onto the same map, a death container will be on the ground visible only to you, the original owner, where you died previously.  You can loot this death container to regain any valuable uninsured items or acquired loot and attempt extraction again.

6). Multiple death bags can exist on a raid location simultaneously. Death bags do not de-spawn if you extract without attempting recovery.

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Optional Fluff:

a). Raid maps sold by the Therapist will mark the locations of your prior death secure containers with a small red X. (This would give some unique functionality to them)

b). Some limit to the number of secure containers that can be recoverable at once is needed (like 15 to 30), but still reasonable so that players can recover loot without feeling overly pressured.

c). If you don't want to deal with the system, Fence will have a services tab that you can pay an exorbitant fee to instantly recover a container. This screen would let you view what items might be expiring if the death bag limit is reached and abandon containers that you do not wish to recover ever. The more time that passes, the cheaper the cost gets to recover an old container. (this also serves as a safeguard against glitched containers that might be stuck in a tree/desynced, etc)

d). One of the intelligence center upgrades might allow for scavenger runs to recover your prior PMC death secure containers. (but remember, scavs do not have secure containers themselves, if you die as a scav after picking it up, the loot is fair game for other players)

----------------------------

The goal of this system is to force players to have to extract with loot. A hatchling might find a graphics card, and while he could keep recovering it and stuffing it back into a gamma container after death, but dying over and over again to inch your death bag closer to the extract across multiple raids is a very inefficient way to play--never mind the fact that extract and spawn locations change per raid.

At the same time, this system tries to preserve a lot of the current functionality of the secure container. If you have a SICC case or factory key, just insure it one time and it'll behave as it does currently. If you find a red rebel ice pick mid-raid, you can still stash it away for safe keeping. You just might have to plan a second or third raid if things go wrong or pay Fence two weeks later and eat only half the profit.

Thoughts?

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Zolty47
Posted (edited)

Hello everyone,

I dont want to say that your idea is bad, but there is maybe a way simpler solution:

2 kinds of gear:

1. "Starter gear" == brought into raid gear from your stash / hide out, allowed in secure container, but with rules.

--> special rule: Once raid started, out of secure container gear, is treated as loot gear.

2. Loot gear == found during raid on dead bodies or anywhere on the map, not allowed in secure container.

For starter gear, rules:

• allowed in secure container

• limitations are:

- all kinds of medication, no food, no drinks

- only 3 magazines and 3 grenades maximal

- allowed gun types and mods, for SMGs, MPs

- keys, keycards, paracord, quest items allowed

- ammo only allowed if in magazine

For loot gear:

Absolutely not allowed in secure container, with the exception of quest items.

To solve hatchet runs:

1 more change:

Raid time system, principle:

More brought in gear, less minimal required raid time (extract point activate time 8 minutes into raid)

Less brought in gear, more minimal tequired raid time (extract point activate time 25 minutes into raid)

25 minutes required ---> more starter gear (only non secure container gear counts) ----> 8 minutes required

 

About the consequences about these 2 changes we should discuss.

Edited by Zolty47

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Aussieeeee

Im sorry but this is a terrible idea. I will explain why

1. The server performance issues and syncing would be a nightmare for this strategy.
2. Unlootable by only an owner who wants it back special magic bright yellow loot box that randomly just spawn back on a fresh instance, I know what I will be camping all game.

The simple fix is to just that entering a raid with a secure container costs you money. Just like insurance, regardless if you die or not.
That box costs you 25-30k to enter a raid with. 

Hatchlings have always been an issue, the new Tag and cursed scav situation is providing a lot of help on this matter.
Ultimately its not a big deal, I rarely see a hatchling snorkle up the loot first. If you want to get good loot you are going to have to push hard to the zones like everyone else does, hatchlings are easy to kill. 
 

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Zolty47
Posted (edited)
vor 1 Stunde schrieb Aussieeeee:

Im sorry but this is a terrible idea. I will explain why

1. The server performance issues and syncing would be a nightmare for this strategy.
2. Unlootable by only an owner who wants it back special magic bright yellow loot box that randomly just spawn back on a fresh instance, I know what I will be camping all game.

The simple fix is to just that entering a raid with a secure container costs you money. Just like insurance, regardless if you die or not.
That box costs you 25-30k to enter a raid with. 

Hatchlings have always been an issue, the new Tag and cursed scav situation is providing a lot of help on this matter.
Ultimately its not a big deal, I rarely see a hatchling snorkle up the loot first. If you want to get good loot you are going to have to push hard to the zones like everyone else does, hatchlings are easy to kill. 
 

What do you think about my idea?

It would have a few more benefits, which arent necessarily obvious at first:

Pro:

1. More brought in gear, potential loot, gets rewarded

2. Secure container is no safe loot room anymore, loot has to be defended and escaped with

--> red key cards dont just disappear into the container (good for shoreline)

3. Everyone with different playstyles, but similiar chances to get the same loot.

4. Being fast and be first by loot rooms gets counter-measured that you also have to be the last for extracts. Survive for the longest time, if you bring no or very little gear into raid.

Edited by Zolty47

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Aussieeeee
12 minutes ago, Zolty47 said:

What do you think about my idea?

It would have a few more benefits, which arent necessarily obvious at first:

Pro:

1. More brought in gear, potential loot, gets rewarded

2. Secure container is no safe loot room anymore, loot has to be defended and escaped with

--> red key cards dont just disappear into the container (good for shoreline)

3. Everyone with different playstyles, but similiar chances to get the same loot.

4. Being fast and be first by loot rooms gets counter measured that you also have to be the last for extracts. Survive for the longest time, if you bring no or very little gear into raid.

I personally dislike it. i like having my secure container to through expensive items in through the raid.

But the system is kinda already in place with *found in raid* Items. It wouldn't be hard to implement now. 

Its a pretty good balance now they just need to stop people coming in with nothing. 
 

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Karvakalsari
9 minutes ago, Aussieeeee said:

I personally dislike it. i like having my secure container to through expensive items in through the raid.

But the system is kinda already in place with *found in raid* Items. It wouldn't be hard to implement now. 

Its a pretty good balance now they just need to stop people coming in with nothing. 
 

Secure container and its use is perfectly fine now. It's not the problem. 

Problem is that loot is static. 

If loot respawn places were random, there would be less, or none hatchlings, since thay don't know where the loot is.

Sure you can run and get out with a few zibbos and other junk, but the chance of them gettign a graphics card would be less likely, since it can be found in a shed, not only in a computer.

This would also encourage players to scavenge and move more.

Sure it could increase the ever growing problem of exctraction campers, but at least you have a secure container where you can put your best stuff. (Unless someone complaints loud enough, and they make it useless container)

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IceManXPrimeX
Posted (edited)
vor einer Stunde schrieb Karvakalsari:

Secure container and its use is perfectly fine now. It's not the problem. 

Problem is that loot is static. 

If loot respawn places were random, there would be less, or none hatchlings, since thay don't know where the loot is.

Sure you can run and get out with a few zibbos and other junk, but the chance of them gettign a graphics card would be less likely, since it can be found in a shed, not only in a computer.

This would also encourage players to scavenge and move more.

Sure it could increase the ever growing problem of exctraction campers, but at least you have a secure container where you can put your best stuff. (Unless someone complaints loud enough, and they make it useless container)

This is exactly the true point !

Not the Secure Container is false, there should be "random" spawns, and not static.

We could even think wider, respawn stuff at half of the time of the match - so that new loot get into the match. So its more rewarding staying longer in the match, and then heading for spots even at late game there will be a chance that there is the new loot unlootet.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Aussieeeee:

I personally dislike it. i like having my secure container to through expensive items in through the raid.

But the system is kinda already in place with *found in raid* Items. It wouldn't be hard to implement now. 

Its a pretty good balance now they just need to stop people coming in with nothing. 
 

Yeah I see it like you.

 

Should there be tweaks with the loot and spawns?

Yes

 

Should there be changes for the Secure Container, no its right as it is now. Otherwise it would be completely nonsense and obsolete.

Edited by IceManXPrimeX

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Zolty47
Posted (edited)
vor 1 Stunde schrieb Aussieeeee:

I personally dislike it. i like having my secure container to through expensive items in through the raid.

But the system is kinda already in place with *found in raid* Items. It wouldn't be hard to implement now. 

Its a pretty good balance now they just need to stop people coming in with nothing. 
 

I try to reason my points rationally, not emotionally. Feelings are still no arguments. Please find a fair reason for your likes and dislikes. Otherwise it gets difficult to discuss about it.

1. Fairness:

My suggested 2 changes would

- give everyone a fair chance to get the loot

- being first as a hatchling will be not as adventagous as it is for now, because you couldnt use secure container as "instant extract loot device".

2 important points that "nerf" hatchling runs

- finding loot --> defending it --> extract with found loot means a more exciting gameplay experience.

Shoreline: the red keycards, everyone, regardless of his spawn, should get a chance fighting for the loot.

Being first as light gear runner --> sneak back to extract point avoiding slow, deadly juggernauts

Being last as heavy infantry ---> but able to cut off light gear runners escape routes, take gear back, play your way.

Or find a good middle level between the extremes.

2. Adrenalin / excitment

I prefer challenging game settings beyond simple / easy and boring strategies.

But still go for decently effective playstyles. Putting red keycards, precious keys, gold chains etc.into safe space container gives instant relief, but its boring, not earned and unfair to others, but effective. EFT should be a survival, high risk, fairly realistic, loot shooter, accordingly to Nikitas words. Secure container takes away of the excitment, bc it decreases risks significantly.

In sake of being fair to everyone, please consider that you play WITH people, not AGAINST them.

3. Needed minimal Raid time as possible balancing strategy

As encouragement to bring in more gear

More brought in (non secure container) gear reduces "minimal raid time, until extract point activates" unlinear.

No gear / hatchling ---> long raid

----> more gear -->minimal raid time decreases heavily

After rethinking the raid time system I came to the opinion that it would be better to bind this system to weight, not money, the gears worth wouldnt matter then. Since weight influences speed also more reasonable.

"Yeah I see it like you.

Should there be tweaks with the loot and spawns?

Yes

Should there be changes for the Secure Container, no its right as it is now. Otherwise it would be completely nonsense and obsolete."

I am sorry, but I have to disagree, because 1 significant flaw.

It seperates looting from gun fights, if good loot respawns. Why we should kill each other for loot, if it respawns after a few minutes anyway?

If you dont want to risk something then you should be happy for the left overs.

Being bold, skillfull and aggressive should result in the best rewards. The winner takes it all.

At least the upper 30 % of good loot.

poo for the rats, gold for the bold.

Edited by Zolty47

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Aussieeeee
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Zolty47 said:

I try to reason my points rationally, not emotionally. Feelings are still no arguments. Please find a fair reason for your likes and dislikes. Otherwise it gets difficult to discuss about it.

Sorry what? I dislike your suggestion. I like it the way it is currently, it just needs a tweak not a rework.

Your idea tells me you are a new player am I wrong? 

"Please find a fair reason for your likes and dislikes." How about you please find a reason to answer why you think you can demand people to do things on the internet.

P.s Thank you for providing a good laugh in this troubling time.

Edited by Aussieeeee

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Zolty47
vor 22 Minuten schrieb Aussieeeee:

Sorry what? I dislike your suggestion. I like it the way it is currently, it just needs a tweak not a rework.

Your idea tells me you are a new player am I wrong? 

"Please find a fair reason for your likes and dislikes." How about you please find a reason to answer why you think you can demand people to do things on the internet.

What you like / dislike has nothing to do what the game "needs".

I am no new to the game but dont look for low effort satisfaction, that seems to be your taste.

Seems like you are pretty young, arent you?

I cant command you, but demand reasons for your feelings, if you want to discuss anything.

I am fine with your opinion, but you werent able / or just too lazy so far to give a good explanation for your likes / dislikes, thats all.

When you consider the current secure container to be good, then I would like to hear your reasons liking it.

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IceManXPrimeX
vor einer Stunde schrieb Zolty47:

I try to reason my points rationally, not emotionally. Feelings are still no arguments. Please find a fair reason for your likes and dislikes. Otherwise it gets difficult to discuss about it.

1. Fairness:

My suggested 2 changes would

- give everyone a fair chance to get the loot, its already given

- being first as a hatchling will be not as adventagous as it is for now, because you couldnt use secure container as "instant extract loot device". you do see hatchlings because they want you to see them, because its faster to get killed and join another game. 

2 important points that "nerf" hatchling runs

- finding loot --> defending it --> extract with found loot means a more exciting gameplay experience. thats already happening, looting and extracting. with your idea the skillful players just need to camp the exits (like nowadays) but much more than it is right now, then kill, loot and escape.

Shoreline: the red keycards, everyone, regardless of his spawn, should get a chance fighting for the loot. if you spawn with lower gear then the full geared gun sprayer, you dont have a fair chance. If this guy spawns near the resort, and you spawn at ruined road, the good geared just have to wait inside resort in the good rooms and campd there.

Being first as light gear runner --> sneak back to extract point avoiding slow, deadly juggernauts and do what? hit them with the melee weapon, against a full geared?

Being last as heavy infantry ---> but able to cut off light gear runners escape routes, take gear back, play your way.

thats already the case

Or find a good middle level between the extremes.

2. Adrenalin / excitment

I prefer challenging game settings beyond simple / easy and boring strategies. you still have them, some like them, some dislike them. Why must your opinion the opinion of the other person?

But still go for decently effective playstyles. Putting red keycards, precious keys, gold chains etc.into safe space container gives instant relief, but its boring, not earned and unfair to others, but effective. EFT should be a survival, high risk, fairly realistic, loot shooter, accordingly to Nikitas words. Secure container takes away of the excitment, bc it decreases risks significantly.

Is a camper or someone with a thermal scope fair against a new player with a SMG? not really, but the new player can still get some things into his container.

In sake of being fair to everyone, please consider that you play WITH people, not AGAINST them. 

No I play Solo, or with my Squad, thats my team. So I play together with others, but I play against the enemies. that how the game is made 

3. Needed minimal Raid time as possible balancing strategy

As encouragement to bring in more gear

More brought in (non secure container) gear reduces "minimal raid time, until extract point activates" unlinear.

No gear / hatchling ---> long raid Okay so be fair, someone who is new and just have a pistol must wait longer in the Raid than the full geared player.. full geared player better survival chance, low geared survival chance is horrible and then he has to stay longer? complete nonsense.. and he cant even bring his stuff he found home, beacuse no secure container...

----> more gear -->minimal raid time decreases heavily

After rethinking the raid time system I came to the opinion that it would be better to bind this system to weight, not money, the gears worth wouldnt matter then. Since weight influences speed also more reasonable.

"Yeah I see it like you.

Should there be tweaks with the loot and spawns?

Yes

Should there be changes for the Secure Container, no its right as it is now. Otherwise it would be completely nonsense and obsolete."

I am sorry, but I have to disagree, because 1 significant flaw.

It seperates looting from gun fights, if good loot respawns. Why we should kill each other for loot, if it respawns after a few minutes anyway? The killing is made to clear the map out of enemies, and steal their gear, and some loot that didnt fit into the secure container...

If you dont want to risk something then you should be happy for the left overs. yes thats nowadays, but this could be changed, random spawns, and/or respawning in the middle of the Match. Its always possible to meet eachother at the areas.

It also negates the hatchlings, because the run for the loot stash them into the secure container, when loot respawns the hatchling is already dead or escaped. Then the others can go for the new spawning loot and it makes sense to stay longer in the Match and battle with the enemies !

Being bold, skillfull and aggressive should result in the best rewards. The winner takes it all. Just look some streams, youtube videos, I can tell you the winner takes it all nowadays.

At least the upper 30 % of good loot.

poo for the rats, gold for the bold.

 

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Zolty47

To point 3:

Lets bind it to weight, not money, fairer to beginners.

0 kg --> 5 kg weight ~ 20 minutes

5 kg --> 10 kg weight ~ 15 minutes

10 kg --> 15 kg weight  ~ 12 minutes

15 kg --> 20 kg weight ~ 10 minutes

++ 20 kg weight ~ 8 minutes

But every system will have its own costs and benefits. Perfect it will never be.

Letting loot respawn has also flaws.

1. It buffs scavs, that spawn in mid raid

2. Lets avoid people even more because its safer to wait for the loot respawn, it contradicts the vision of the game. Less risk, less survival.

Spawncamping could be reduced by

A. More extract points

B. Force high tier geared people to extract by certain extract points

C. Low tier geared people get sent to other extract points 

(B & C): But no clue, how to achieve this

D. Need in raid only found items to use some special extract points (really safe ones).

Do you have some ideas?

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Zolty47
vor 57 Minuten schrieb Kthelmir:

A system that i'd like to see is this.

  • All players get a new unlootable slot 1x2 that can hold Keytools, Document cases, etc.
  • All safe containers can be looted but they have a 4 digit number combination.
  • All safe container sizes have a quest that unlocks them for sale. Players with editions that unlock a certain type do NOT have to do the quest. The quest should only reward the ...
  •  
  • When off raid you can use a new option from the Traders/Intelligence center or Scav box to retrieve buried stashes for you.
  • Prizes for safe containers should be reasonable.

A bit off topic:

How would it be if you could buy a box of a trader, 3×4 squares big, that can be hidden in a map, buried or not, bury it in the bottom takes 15 seconds and earth is obviously "out of place". Also other players could find it.

How it could work:

If you hide it on Woods, for example, it gets loaded in Woods again, when YOU play this map again. It stays on the map, as long as no one finds it and you dont take it up again.

You can put anything in it.

To make it clear:

Your hidden box spawns only on the map, if you play it. So you play Woods and then it spawns on this version of Woods too. Its like a mini stash outside of your hide out.

Your mini stash is seperate from your hide out stash. If you want to put something out of it, you have to spawn on certain map and take it out yourself.

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