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Why is this game already pay to win?

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Recontiger94
3 minutes ago, SilentOption said:

I don't think you have -33 rep for no good reason my friend. You do realize you can take out practically all of the limited edition gear and lose it on the first run right? It's not pay to win. It's more like assuming you've had one good run already and have saved up some stuff. Pay to win would be like having an all powerful sniper rifle that other players can't obtain unless they payed for it. We, as far as I know, are not getting any exclusive gear, but more like a head start for supporting the developers. I expect that if we played normally, we would lose that gear in the first week of play as long as we didn't hoard it.

 

Lastly, do some research before bitching out devs for no reason. Thanks and bye! :D

The only reason this thread became active again is because his post ban was up.

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Alpha-30k

Ah, I see haha. Well I felt I needed to give my two-cents because whiners like these don't deserve to be on these awesome forums. This is the best-designed forum I have used so far!

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Sushi

When you say pay to win, usually that means getting some advantage ingame other players cannot have. I think it's generally acknowledged in F2Ps and MMOs that faster XP, boosted money and things outside the direct gameplay are fair game. The only permanent part of the preorders is more storage outside the actual fighting in the game.

We don't know what advantage the preorder physical stuff is even worth yet! For all we know it's a few grenades and a rifle we might get an hour into the campaign scenario. It's all going to be lost when you die, which most people probably will with frequency early on.

BF4 premium gave you a boatload of free, permanent unlocks in Gold Packs that other people had to grind extensively to get at, gives you server priority and unique cosmetics, costs about the same and it isn't called pay to win.

I don't think your concerns with Tarkov will be vindicated, honestly.

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SgtPineapple1st

Personally I bought a pack to further development. I could care less about the advantages. Like I did with Star Citizen, War Thunder, and Project Zomboid. I see a good game, I try to support the devs. It's also funny to see people complain about what others are doing with the money that they made/earned (while there are a few exceptions where little timmy steals mommy's credit card). I do understand the concern though. An advantage is an advantage. New players don't get that advantage. I also get why people don't like preorders. I made the mistake of preordering Battlefront... There's always a chance that I made a mistake in preodering this game, but I'm willing to take the risk.

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Splitterbruch

Hi, there is something I don't understand. You say there is no microtransaction ever. However, from the Terms of Service:

http://www.escapefromtarkov.com/legal/terms_of_service_en.html

Quote

8.2 Acquiring Virtual Goods. You may acquire Virtual Goods in a variety of ways. Battlestate Games Limited may distribute Virtual Goods in exchange for taking certain actions (either directly within the Services, or in connection with a third party service), for a fee, or without any fee or required action, in its sole discretion. Battlestate Games Limited may charge fees for the right to exercise rights associated with Virtual Goods. You agree that you do not "own" the Virtual Goods and that Battlestate Games Limited has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Virtual Goods in its sole discretion, in any general or specific case, and that Battlestate Games Limited will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right. Battlestate Games Limited allows you to accumulate and manage your Virtual Goods, and may use terms such as "buy" and "sell" to refer to the grant or transfer of rights to use the Services. Use of terms such as "buy" or "sell" does not indicate any ownership right.

"Battlestate Games Limited may distribute Virtual Goods ... for a fee."

So everyone who preorders the game agrees that Battlestate can sell virtual goods for money. The users keep quoting the FAQ, but they agreed to the TOS when they bought the game. And that TOS has the very clause in it that is the legal basis for microtransactions. And the term "virtual goods" is never used to describe DLC as in expansions of map and missions. "Virtual Goods" always refers to ingame items (weapons and gear) and ingame currency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_goods
Also, there's this: "Battlestate Games Limited allows you to accumulate and manage your Virtual Goods" - you manage and accumulate items and currency in the ingame economy. I have never heard any game developer refer to "managing" and "accumulating" a DLC = expansion of map and missions. You play those. But you accumulate and manage your ingame stuff.

So you say there is only going to be DLC = expansion of map and missions. No virtual items (weapons and gear) or virtual currency, ever. So why do you have that part in your TOS?

Would be really nice to get an official explanation, because you can write whatever you want in a FAQ and later change your opinion, but what really counts is what is in the TOS.

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bigpickle51
3 hours ago, Splitterbruch said:

Hi, there is something I don't understand. You say there is no microtransaction ever. However, from the Terms of Service:

http://www.escapefromtarkov.com/legal/terms_of_service_en.html

"Battlestate Games Limited may distribute Virtual Goods ... for a fee."

So everyone who preorders the game agrees that Battlestate can sell virtual goods for money. The users keep quoting the FAQ, but they agreed to the TOS when they bought the game. And that TOS has the very clause in it that is the legal basis for microtransactions. And the term "virtual goods" is never used to describe DLC as in expansions of map and missions. "Virtual Goods" always refers to ingame items (weapons and gear) and ingame currency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_goods
Also, there's this: "Battlestate Games Limited allows you to accumulate and manage your Virtual Goods" - you manage and accumulate items and currency in the ingame economy. I have never heard any game developer refer to "managing" and "accumulating" a DLC = expansion of map and missions. You play those. But you accumulate and manage your ingame stuff.

So you say there is only going to be DLC = expansion of map and missions. No virtual items (weapons and gear) or virtual currency, ever. So why do you have that part in your TOS?

Would be really nice to get an official explanation, because you can write whatever you want in a FAQ and later change your opinion, but what really counts is what is in the TOS.

It could be that is the generic TOS for what ever game they release including of course past games.

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glumnut

people are twisting the hole concept of P2W in here imo , if there was talk about some kind of special ammo like in WoT or HP/stamina/running speed boost higher jumping etc things like that now thats more in the realm of P2W.

but this stuff about bigger storage more money and bigger secure box and the tomahawk is like complaining about a  standard car that  doesnt have the same stuff the luxury model its obvious u get more for ur buck now deal with it or spend more money

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Splitterbruch
1 hour ago, bigpickle51 said:

It could be that is the generic TOS for what ever game they release including of course past games.

That is actually my hope, that this section is some kind of mistake.

 

24 minutes ago, glumnut said:

u get more for ur buck now deal with it or spend more money

Well there's always people who are okay with pay to win and people who don't like it. That is not the discussion. The important thing is: this game is being advertised as "no microtransactions" and "no pay to win". So it's a little strange to find the most obvious and standard microtransaction legal clause in the TOS.

This game is skill and loot based and there's talk about player economy. Skill progression, loot and ingame economy are the perfect basis for some kind of microtransactions, to sell ingame cash, better items or faster progress through the skills. Now look at the TOS that has a legal clause to allow these microtransactions.

I'd really like to buy this game, but I'm afraid that some time after release they will introduce some kind of scheme to monetize it more.

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kqo
On 1/15/2016 at 8:24 PM, mtvpls said:

Hey devs, why are you selling direct ingame advantages to whoever preorders the most expensive game packs?

Saying you won't have microtransactions, and then offering wallet warriors an advantage, is like a girl who stays a virgin until marriage, but takes it up the back door anyway. 

Seriously? It's not P2W because you don't have to buy the higher preorder packages to win. It's an MMO/RPG FPS game, not Pokemon Go or some other mobile app that makes you pay microtransactions because you ran out of currency/items. Also, I am proud to say, #ProudWalletWarrior

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Turpentine

Considering that you lose your gear when you die I hope that BSG implements purchasing guns/gear with real money. It will save me loads of time looting when all I need to do is shoot some newb in the head and take his pretty new toy that he just bought. And it will help improve BSG's financial ability to support and expand their cool game as well has reward the developers for their hard work.

As long as everything that is purchasable with hard currency is available in game there is no harm and no foul.

Side note: All the extra stuff I got for purchasing the Edge of Darkness Edition was all gone in two days due to newb mistakes on my part.

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BrutusMeister

Ehh.... Actually you can't buy anything with real money in-game.... why would it be pay to win ?

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Kwahamot

There will be no microtransactions in the game, as stated by the developers. The only thing that will be available to buy will be DLC which may include; new maps, new weapons and more. 

Thanks.

#locked.

 

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