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A Possible Solution To Hatchet Runners! ^^


Gamma281

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They should make it so that every container has a cooldown that works like this:

If you go in naked with nothing but a hatchet and die/extract/quit/run out of time <-- doesn't matter, if you go in naked then after the raid you get a 6h long cooldown on your secure container. I'll get into why exactly 6h in a minute. While the cooldown is on you are unable to use your case. You can't empty it, you can't put anything in it, you can't use it at all simply. "Why not just put a cooldown on going in raid then?" Well because that would stop you from playing all together for the day, this way you can still play like noral just with no case for 6h... if we put a cooldown on playing completely we would not fix hatchet runners, we would just make all the "hatcheters" quit all together... aka killing off 50% of the playerbase for the day, or maybe for good.

So why 6h? Well first of all this would mean you could only reasonably do one hatchet run a day, therefore putting on gear would be more worth it as that would mean you would keep your case afterwards. Basically this would make gear play the new hatchet run as it would allow you to use your case over and over but the difference this time is that you have gear on (killing the problem). Sure one could do a hatchet run and then quit for the day and come back tomorrow, but who would do that? You don't know if you will get good loot spawning so one a day is too discouraging to be repeated. Secondly the reason for the cooldown being specifically 6h is because I thought this through and this is how it should work:

Helmet   =  -1h of the cooldown
Armour   =  -1h of the cooldown
Rig           =  -1h of the cooldown
Pistol       =  -1h of the cooldwon
Primary    = -1h of the cooldwon
Backpack = -1h of the cooldwon

Every item you bring in takes an hour off of the cooldown post raid! :P

So this would mean a fully geared player would have no cooldown at all. Sure one could just buy crap gear to counter this, but I'd rather have low tier gear than nothing for my M995 I just wasted on a hatchet runner. xD Also before you armoured rig runners freak out, armoured rigs could have a -2h cooldown as it obviously covers 2 item-slots. As for the people freaking out over having to bring a pistol to get that last hour off, well maybe the cooldown can be only 5h... Idk... this is just an idea relax, they are not implementing this tomorrow dammit! xD Also another solution could be that a pimped primary with attachments and such is -2h on the cooldown or something, feel free to come with ideas. ^^

Also before you say anything, I know what you are thinking, "They will just buy a bunch of gear and toss it in a bush and get it back on insurance and only run hatchet!" and to that I say, it is about time they nerfed that long ago anyway. You should get your gear back on insurance if you ((die)) with it ((on)). Tossing it away for someone elses gear is broken and should not work! So by implementing my method and nerfing that part of insurance you are killing two major flaws of Tarkov at once, one being the hatchet runners and the other being the insurance abusers. For those who don't agree with the insurance thing well look at it this way, insurance basically means "We got your back ((IN CASE)) something goes to poo." you throwing your stuff away is not "In case" that is just you doing it intentionally. That would be the same as hiding your stuff IRL and telling your insurance company you got robbed and want it back on insurance to get duplicates. That is illegal and therefore it shouldn't be allowed in this game as it is meant to be a realistic one. :P

Lastly this is off topic ranting so if you came here for the hatchet solution then you can stop reading here. ^^ This is for those that will say, "Realistic game blabla it is still JUST a game, get over it." well like I hinted above, Tarkov is being marketed as a "realistic shooter" therefore no matter how many reality breaking rules it might have, it is still meant to emulate reality, and my suggestion is making it more realistic, cool? Ok. Besides if no matter how realistic a game might be it is still "just a game" to you, then by that logic there's no tactical difference between Fortnite and Tarkov right? Also by that logic if no game is tactical enough to be considered "realistic" by you, then the only reasonable way I could "play a realistic" game with that logic would be by actually joining the military as that seems to be the only "realistic enough shooter" out there acording to you. Please stop. ^^

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PS. Sorry for the hour of your life I stole with that long ass text btw. For what it's worth I congratulate you, you have a longer attention span that 90% of the internet! xD

Another thing to add a little to the topic above, I thought about if the timer should start as soon as you join the raid naked. Meaning you get 6h for just JOINING the raid with nothing but a hatchet making even that one raid you had pointless as you have no case even in the first raid, but Idk that seems a little too harsh and would possibly kill the "HardCore" challenge by DeadlySlob so I was like naah. xP

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Another variant could be to make it so the cooldown applies to whatever you bring out from the raid. This wouldn't stop hatchet runners though but it would force them to at least kill scavs for a backpack, helmet, armour and guns and they would also have to extract putting them at a bigger risk than just quitting out etc. ^^

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MarcBorgia

Dont mind your idea except for the pistol requirement. I dont ever take a pistol in but im always fully kitted otherwise. So being punished for a pistol seems wrong to me.

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I thought about that too so that is why I added the pimped gun idea... but yeah I think the pistol one could be ignored yes. ^^ No one runs a secondary hand gun in this game anyway so... xD

 

Excuse the long ass reply here, the top part was meant as the reply so no need to read unless you have the time. xP But hats of to you man... thx for reading! :)

Anyway as a last bonus just to clarify to possible future readers, the reason I came up with this system is because the three other ideas the community had were:

 

1. Shut of the container to 100% while hatcheting. The problem with this is that it is a harsh on and off type of penalty and just like the tag and curse mechanic it would be bypassed by bringing something like just a primary. This would also make it so that people that bring in a helmet and just a gun because that is all they could bring in atm they would either also have a dead Gamma with a harsh system like an on and off situation or you could just again bypass the system all together by bringing in just a little something, it's like where does the line go for "Ok equipment" for your container not to die 100%? This is why this system would work because there are levels to it and even if you bring in tiny gear and miss one slot you would only have 1h on your container, that's two raids with no container, big deal.

 

2. Some people suggested that you spawn 5 minutes later than others. Again this is a harsh on and off situation again, if you hatchet = five minutes late. Then people would just bring a pistol to fix that. "Ok but what if pistol is not enough?" well then other people that brought gear would also be affected as again, where does the line go for ok amount of gear? This is why there needs to be levels to this so one can choose how much of a punishment one wants instead of 100% or nothing. Because if it's 100% or nothing then either a simple something will bypass it or people with little gear with no intention to cheese will be 100% punished because they didn't meet the required amount.

 

3. The idea of dynamic loot has gone around, but think about this...sure it would fix the issue as people would have to run around looking for things and hatcheters would'n be able to just rush a high value area, they would have to look and most likely die in the process as they can't protect themselves if they encounter someone geared... however a graphics card spawning in a clothing-store on interchange instead of a tech store is just weird right? Also what would keys be good for at that point? Because if loot is random then what is the point of high value locations if they have the same random chance at loot as any other place on the map now that it's all random? I said this in a YouTube comment earlier but if the argument is that these high value locations get random BUT have a higher chance at better loot then the problem stays as no matter how random the loot might be, the place where the chance for higher loot is is the place people will rush. This change would be pointless.

 

This is the reason I came up with this tier system for the container. ^^

Edited by Gamma281
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Zolty47
Am 24.4.2020 um 09:31 schrieb Gamma281:

They should make it so that every container has a cooldown that works like this:

....shortened...

I thought this through and this is how it should work:

Helmet   =  -1h of the cooldown
Armour   =  -1h of the cooldown
Rig           =  -1h of the cooldown
Pistol       =  -1h of the cooldwon
Primary    = -1h of the cooldwon
Backpack = -1h of the cooldwon

Every item you bring in takes an hour off of the cooldown post raid! :P

Hi Gamma281, hi everyone!

like I promised you recently I would like to compare your idea with mine and work out the pros and cons of bothe sides.

List my complete package of new features, tweaks and changes:

But at first the priority list for the gameplay imo:

1. Survival (must be more rewarded then)

2. Searching / looting life-necessary goods

3. Questing for the end goal of escaping Tarkov

4. PvP

------------------------------------------

Now the list of new features:

1. PMC-Life-point-system (alternatively you might call it PMC-Reputation / Prestige-system)

 

Not as complicated as you think.

(Super Mario bros. Inspirated)

A. Everyone starts with 7 LP for his PMC with the implementaion of this feature.

B. +1 LP, if raid survived and 12 kg loot extracted (for all next points: loot is only spawned in raid goods or non-teammate gear)

C. +2 LP, if raid survived and 24 kg loot extracted

D. +3 LP, if raid survived and 42 kg loot extracted

E. - 1 LP, if dies in raid as PMC

F. If PMC has 0 LP, then not allowed to play as PMC.

G. If PMC has 0 LP, then Scav-wait-timer is set to 0 minutes.

H. If you survive as a "0 minute" Scav, then your PMC gets +1 LP.

I. If your PMC hits 0 LP he will get automatically + 3 LP after 24 hours, but only if he is still by 0 LP after these 24 hours.

J. A disconnect from a match will cost you automatically 1 LP.

K. Suicide will cost you 2 LP. (Dying from fall damage and grenades)

L. Teamkill will cost you 1 LP.

M. +2 LP If killing a Gold Dog Tag player or higher + taking the dog tag + and surviving the raid

Some equippment from traders only for sale if you have at least have 12 LP as PMC. 

VIP-status for all PMC, that have more than 21 LP. Get access to VIP restricted goods by traders. Highest trader level required too.

LP dependent dog-tags:

Wood dog tag for < 4 LP.

Steel dog tag for < 8 LP.

Silver dog tag for < 11 LP.

Gold dog tag for < 14 LP.

Platinum dog tag for < 17 LP.

VIP dog tag for < 20 LP.

"Escaper" dog tag for < 30 LP.

This big PMC life point system will make surviving more important, since you loose not only money / gear by dying, but also  PMC LP.

---> survival more important.

---> hatchling runs possible, but a waste of time, not many at once possible.

---> RMT gets hurt a bit by it.

2.Trader tweaks

Every trader should have a weekly changing barter item list. 15 items on each traders list.

One week he prefers ledx, akms, 416s, ammo types, thermals etc. Any item / gear could get on the list.

All objects used as barter items have to be found and spawned in raid as loot. Teammate gear doesnt count.

A barter item counts then 3-times its normal exchange value. A 30.000 roubles item will be in this week 90.000 roubles worth, but only by the certain trader.

3 types of gear levels by trader:

Low worth gear:

---> traded in roubles, dollar, euro and weekly set barter items

Middle worth gear:

---> traded in dollar, euro and weekly set barter items

High worth gear:

---> traded in only weekly set barter items

Trader goods cant be sold at flea market!!

Only personally extracted loot, that spawned in your game session, can be sold at flea market!!

Bartering will be always more economical than buying with money.

Trader tweak against RMT and to reward smart looting.

3. Loot spawn system

Instead of now, where every item has fix spots in X % of spawning probability, make it this way:

Items spawn in authentic (tank batteries in workshops and military storage) places in buildings / rooms / and halls.

Medical bags and medication items spawn in apothecaries, drug stores, rest rooms, special storage rooms. You get the idea. Knowing the rooms / stores function will be more important.

Additionally all area / shelves etc. Of the certain rooms should be used.

High value objects dpawn only fix in buildings and its floors, halls and stores. No loot spawn point farming anymore.

Looting & searching will always require some time.

-------------------------------------------------------------

4. Stepless weight system

A realistic stepless weight system, that lets you feel every extra pound / 500 gramm, no magical weight borders.

***I know its out of topic, but nevertheless one of my favourite ideas, plz give ut a chance.***

Since it rewards light gear, it should first implemented with the already on its way armour hitzone / weak point mechanic.

I know realism is not always the solution, but it could be in the case for the weight system.

No 39 kg bunny hoppers vs 41 kg turtles battles anymore.

This way:

Every extra pound on body could have following effect, total weight, effect independent on body part:

+ 1 pound effects:

- 0.3 % slower jogging / running / sprinting

+ 0.4 % more time to gain maximal sprint speed

+ 0.4 % louder steps

+ 0.5 % faster stamina depletion by moving (jogging / running / sprinting)

+ 0.1 % faster stamina depletion by fast going

- 0.5 % jump length

- 0.3 % jump height

+ 0.5 % more stamina use by  jumping

+ 0.2 % stamina use by switching between body stances

+ 1 pound special effects for pound in backpack (additional to the upper whole body effects):

- 0.4 % turning speed

- 0.4 % standing up animation speed 

+ 0.4 % stamina use by standing up

+ 1 pound gun(and magazine weight)and shoulder / arm armour weight effects:

+ 3 % time needed to go fully ADS

- 3.5 % ADS time (maximum ADS time influenced by indurance and strength levels), burns faster through arm stamina

Of course still far from ideal and some effects missing, but the concept should be clear.

Main effects:

A. No bunny hopping anymore

B. Looting makes sense again, since you do not cross magical weight borders

C. Weight system will influence now gear selection and the very start of the match too.

5. Insurance tweak

Only works for gear, if you die in raid, dropped gear lost if you extract without it.

6. Safety nets and Crutches

Definitions:

Safety net: A feature that does not make the game easier, but keeps you from falling limitlessly downwards.

Balancing on a rope:

A safety net underneath it makes the sport, not easier, but gives you a second chance after failing.

Crutches: A helping hand to make the game easier for you, but that waters the experience down unavoidablly.

Enough to say that I prefer safety nets above crutches in a hardcore survival game!

Reduce the crutches, but introduce safety nets,

PMC-LP-system is a progress system and safety net at the same time!

Secure container, Insurance, flea market and bit coin farm are crutches, helpful but also water down the experience, "Crutches" are unfitting for an hardcore survival game!.

Please find better solutions!

New safety net feature:

Poverty line by 300.000 Roubles complete owned gear worth

---> Then, only as long as the player is underneath the poverty line he gets a 0 minute scav wait timer

---> Its like an existence minimum, helps people getting back into the flow.

---> Resetting of account no longer necessary to get starter gear like conditions. 

Secure container tweak:

It unlocks for loot 12 minutes after match has started.

Flea market, restrictions:

Lock all top 30 % of gear out of it.

No food or water on flea market!

Markets only payment item are Roubles. No Dollar or Euro. These are for Traders only.

---> This way you have more control about the amount of high tier gear to be buyable. Finding good gear in raid more rewarding and important.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So let us compare your idea with mine:

Positive points of your idea, which I can see:

• easy to make it work

• at least always some gear taken in raid

Negative points:

• Does not recognize legit reasons for hatchling runs, gives not a good replacement, that could improve the experience for all.

• easily exploitable

My idea set:

Ok, here I am heavily biased of course.

Positive points:

• Covers almost all the current feature  flaws that support hatchling   runs as an effective strategy.

• Gives more progression / rewards in survival.

• More positive reasons to play the game in an authentical way, regarding its a locked up warzone.

• more hardcore survival, but also more forgiving.

More details about the hoped dynamics of the PMC-life point-system:

If you survive with 12 kg / 24 kg of loot you financed already for another round ---> +1 LP

If you fail alot then the 0-Scav will help you out, preventing from loosing all your gear.

So it functions as a detection system for people, who struggle at the moment and stealthily helping them.

Survival means more, because only through survival + loot extraction you progress in trader high tier gear access, Leaderboard and in the Quest Escaping Tarkov.

Negative points:

A big focking piece of work, but improves essential parts to improve the gameplay loop.

Time consuming to make, but worth the effort imo.

Edited by Zolty47
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MyshyakOfficial

Making a cooldown is a bad solution to the problem.  Hatchets are not a problem at all.  But the solution to the problem is that the ax could not survive in the raid or that it was very difficult.  It is enough to add more bots, make them stronger, smarter and add them next to the exits.

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To Zolty47: Daaaaamn man! I read the whole thing and my man! You put a lot of thought into that! I wasn't sure when you first sent me the DM as it was shortened down to just quickly explain, I liked it then but didn't understand to 100% but now that I read it I LOVE the idea! I read it multiple times to check for possible flaws but it seems pretty air-tight actually. :P I'll give it to you, it is exactly like you said, my idea would be easier to implement but wouldn't kill the problem just put a limit on it, so your idea is actually smarter as it gets rid of the problem as a valid strategy instead of just limiting the strategy. Very well written and listed too btw! Hope BSG sees all this. ^^ Thanks for taking part of my long ass thread btw! xD

 

To MyshyakOfficial: I see what you are trying to say with this, it sure would kill exit campers as well as they would have to deal with pretty much raiders at all exits, but there's a few problems I'll get into but I really like the concept and stronger/better bots overall wouldn't be bad. ^^ The problems I see are the following:

 

1. While it gets rif of exit campers it is also implementing a LOT of them just bots at all exits, this would mean that the first to extract would get super punnished and the rest of the people just get a LOT of loot for free at the end. This would also mean that all those times you felt "I hope there are one exit campers." would now be all the time every single raid.

 

2. The only way to make bots stronger is with better gear. Sure you can make them smarter by better AI, but stronger is only possible via gear. As much as this would be awesome the problem here is that good gear would be too easy to come by and make finding good gear even more of a "meh" type deal. Also if we gear bots to be like raiders early game would be pretty much impossible especially for standard edition people sadly.

 

3. Killing these exit bots would take a lot of time as they would be many and strong too. Now there's nothing wrong with that in itself, however how angry wouldn't it make people if they had an amazing raid only to run into what is basically a 5 man suad at EVERY exit with tons of loot and a few minutes left on the timer that will run out during the fight with these bots.

 

4. Hatchlings usually run nothing but their Gamma container so they don't care if they extract or not so killing them via bots is just making them get to the menu faster with the stuff in their Gamma. The exit bots would only punish people that run backpacks which is everyone BUT hatchlings. Although I get that you mean stronger bots all over the map too which could help in killing them before they even get to loot so I get and support the idea of better bots but the exit thing is a little weird IMO. But putting more around the map would be good, the uestion that comes up there though is performance, but if optimised it could work indeed! ^^

 

Lastly to both of you or anyone that reads, I saw a video on YouTube where I think it was Veritas that said that Nikitad had stated in an interview that he wants us to choose between profiting or combat. Veritas pointed out that this sounds like Nikita wants to have a bunch of hatchlings or chads that fight and nothing in-between, so maybe they don't want to get rid of the problem. :/ Although this is most likely a misunderstanding given that Nikita is not perfect in English and also if they don't want to get rid of it then why implement the Tagged And Cursed mechanic in the first place. :P Idk, guess we'll just have to wait and see, but thank you both for your ideas, I like them both and hopefully we'll solve this issue once and for all. ^^

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Zolty47
vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gamma281:

To Zolty47: Daaaaamn man! I read the whole thing and my man! You put a lot of thought into that! I wasn't sure when you first sent me the DM as it was shortened down to just quickly explain, I liked it then but didn't understand to 100% but now that I read it I LOVE the idea! I read it multiple times to check for possible flaws but it seems pretty air-tight actually. :P I'll give it to you, it is exactly like you said, my idea would be easier to implement but wouldn't kill the problem just put a limit on it, so your idea is actually smarter as it gets rid of the problem as a valid strategy instead of just limiting the strategy. Very well written and listed too btw! Hope BSG sees all this. ^^ Thanks for taking part of my long ass thread btw! 

Thank you for the heartwarming words, and true it was! But I hoped for a few doubts at least, because the stepless weight system could need some more additions, but the scaling of the debuffs per pound seem fine?

By reading this again I detected a small flaw.

I wrote that you would get + 2 LP if you kill a Gold dog tag player + taking dog tag + and extracting alive.

Surely we would need the rule here that team mate dog tags dont count, but if so it could be easily exploited / cheesed, since for Gold + 2 LP and only - 1 LP for team kill.

So team mates dog tags dont give you an LP plus! Hunt for loot or high tier players! But looting + surviving means more.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gamma281:

4. Hatchlings usually run nothing but their Gamma container so they don't care if they extract or not so killing them via bots is just making them ...

Yes, also these changes harm new players even more. It would have too harshly negative side effects.

Hatchling runners are not a "sickness" we cure, but part of game feature / design flaws that occur in the symptom as hatchlings.

The pain is only a signal for NOT doing something. Its not the actual problem.

People say often that the economy needs fixes, my suggestion goes this way and tries to take everything into account.

But it is more than an anti-hatchling antidote. It should improve the gaming experience for all.

Not as a punishment but to give better options for hatchling runs and getting rid of that strategy at the ssme moment.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gamma281:

Lastly to both of you or anyone that reads, I saw a video on YouTube where I think it was Veritas that said that Nikitad had stated in an interview that he wants us to choose between profiting or combat. Veritas pointed out that this sounds like Nikita wants to have a bunch of hatchlings or chads that fight and nothing in-between, so maybe they don't want to get rid of the problem. :/ Although this is most likely a misunderstanding given that Nikita is not perfect in English and also if they don't want to get rid of it then why implement the Tagged And Cursed mechanic in the first place. :P Idk, guess we'll just have to wait and see, but thank you both for your ideas...

I also heard him saying that Hatchling runs are anti climatic / non authentical and wants to find solutions against it, so I guess the communication mistakes come from out of context and flawed english.

He is very in love with his baby EfT and has an authentical warzone survival game in mind, so be asured, he knows his business 😉.

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Indeed I fully trust Nikita, I mean damn... sure EFT has a lot of issues and so on but damn... the fact that we even hav EFT by such a small company looking as good as it does etc. is nothing short of a miracle. ^^

 

As for your reply, indeed that is something I missed too but now that you mention it it's true. Maybe a system could be implemented that makes it so that all people you have in your friend's list and in your current team have a "Friend" tag that makes the tags non-functional for LP or something like that. But still, I did the system and it would also give scav runs a reason to exist even late-game so that's cool! :P

 

Off topic, but lastly just imagine when the game is finished! So cool! Also their offline game that's coming, can't wait! xP I've personally made a list of over 1000 ideas now... too many to post in the forus at this point so I probably won't but maybe some day. Leaning against walls with weapons and functional bipods would be nice though, hopefully they will come some day, they are implementing new laying positions now so who knows, maybe they will give many many more options for movement in the future and such. I just hope now that they are giving the feature to vault in the upcoming patches I hope they do it the way I thought of by giving us a context menyu like when you open/breach doors and have the options for (Vault over/Vault on top of) because I hate it in games when you try and get on top of an edge of a roof and your soldier just vaults over and falls to his death! xD

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Zolty47
vor 12 Minuten schrieb Gamma281:

Indeed I fully trust Nikita, I mean damn... sure EFT has a lot of issues and so on but damn... the fact that we even hav EFT by such a small company looking as good as it does etc. is nothing short ...

....made a list of over 1000 ideas now...

Okay, thats a lot 😄

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Gamma281:

too many to post in the forus at this point so I probably won't but maybe some day. Leaning against walls with weapons and functional bipods would be nice though, hopefully they will come some day, they are implementing new laying positions now so who knows, maybe they will give many many more options for movement in the future and such. I just hope now that they are giving the feature to vault in the upcoming patches I hope they do it the way I thought of by giving us a context menyu like when you open/breach doors and have the options for (Vault over/Vault on top of) because I hate it in games when you try and get on top of an edge of a roof and your soldier just vaults over and falls to his death! xD

Have found another small oversight. By the "Escaper" dog tag the "bigger" symbol needs to be reverted so that you get it first when you have MORE than 30 LP.

That will be a hell of a grind lol😄

Your ideas could be interesting but for saying for sure I would need some more details.

Until later, nice weekend!

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Almost forgot! Yes the weight system you mentioned could be great! :P

 

But yeah, we'll see... so much text to type out all ideas in detail as they are in tiny short versions atm as I quick type them during gameplay. xD But yes... maybe some day.

 

Anyway yeyeye same to you, have a nice rest of the weekend! ^^

 

See you around. :P

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NoSerialBliky

What if somebody wanna do AKsU run instead with no backpack, armor or other bs you want to be counted? I don’t take backpack to factory ever, not do I rock attachment or hard gear cause I feel like this delta force experience ruins the game. -2hr cooldows generally might make sense but I don’t see why complicate it. A single mag AKSU player might take down your whole squad if they play right, so I don’t see why they should be treated like any less.

as fo yo dear 995, what I do - carry a PM or APS, Russian 9mm short has the cheapest Hollow tip rounds that deal 70 and have 60% frag chance so I just execute my hatchlings.

Edited by NoSerialBliky
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