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Vortex_Bear
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When it comes to making weapon handling, aiming, character movement, etc... more realistic and offering suggestions that would help reduce arcadey gameplay immensely and help the game to come closer to it's promise of being a modern warfare/battle simulator, as well as mitigating some issues such as peaker's advantage to some degree, I highly suggest watching @Spectator6's amazingly well researched and put together suggestions and engaging/supporting these in an attempt to give these topics more focus as part of the community.
 

 

 

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-Removing and equipping an armor or helmet should both take at least several seconds, for example 5 seconds to equip or un-equip, to prevent people from quickly switching their shot out armor to a new one that they have in their backpack, mid-fight.

-Equipping and un-equipping headsets should also take some time, maybe 2-3 seconds.

-Usable items and consumables should not be able to be used directly out of the secured container but require to be first moved into another container, for example the backpack, pockets or vest.

-Taking anything out from the secured container, or placing items into the secure container should have a timer of a few seconds for each item, to slightly de-buff secure containers and prevent people from running in as hatchlings and stuffing their containers instantly with multiple valuable items. This also means the player has to find a spot that he cleared out or thinks is safe so that he can place any item into the secured container, as he would be unable to fight while placing the item into the secure container.

-Placing items into the vest equipped on the character, as well as taking them out of the equipped vest should also have a timer.

-When directly using consumables or medical items out of the backpack, there should be a timer and animation for taking out an item first as well. Only the vest and pockets should have it so that items can be instantly used for quick access.

-In addition, vests and pockets should not be able to hold loot items (building supplies, valuable items, etc...), but restrict equipped vests (vests in backpacks should accept all items) and pockets to functional items only such as magazines, bullets, medical items, consumables including and frag grenades, maybe weapon mods as well. All loot type items should only be able to be placed into the backpack. But all consumables, meds, items, magazines, etc... can also be put into the backpack without restriction, or in other words the backpack can hold all items without any restrictions.

-When picking up any new magazine from the game world it should not immediately be placed into the vest, as this will cause a magazine drop on reload if the vest only had two slots free prior. Instead, magazines should only be placed into the vest upon looting when any other container is already filled. To address the earlier point, items should not be placed into the secure container automatically, but require the player to manually place items in and out of the secure container, even if all other containers are already filled.

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-Heavy items such as car batteries, propane, etc... should not be able to be placed into a duffle bag and low tier backpacks, and would require a more heavy duty backpack in order to be looted.

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9 hours ago, Vortex_Bear said:

-Removing and equipping an armor or helmet should both take at least several seconds, for example 5 seconds to equip or un-equip, to prevent people from quickly switching their shot out armor to a new one that they have in their backpack, mid-fight.

-Equipping and un-equipping headsets should also take some time, maybe 2-3 seconds.

-Usable items and consumables should not be able to be used directly out of the secured container but require to be first moved into another container, for example the backpack, pockets or vest.

-Taking anything out from the secured container, or placing items into the secure container should have a timer of a few seconds for each item, to slightly de-buff secure containers and prevent people from running in as hatchlings and stuffing their containers instantly with multiple valuable items. This also means the player has to find a spot that he cleared out or thinks is safe so that he can place any item into the secured container, as he would be unable to fight while placing the item into the secure container.

-Placing items into the vest equipped on the character, as well as taking them out of the equipped vest should also have a timer.

-When directly using consumables or medical items out of the backpack, there should be a timer and animation for taking out an item first as well. Only the vest and pockets should have it so that items can be instantly used for quick access.

-In addition, vests and pockets should not be able to hold loot items (building supplies, valuable items, etc...), but restrict equipped vests (vests in backpacks should accept all items) and pockets to functional items only such as magazines, bullets, medical items, consumables including and frag grenades, maybe weapon mods as well. All loot type items should only be able to be placed into the backpack. But all consumables, meds, items, magazines, etc... can also be put into the backpack without restriction, or in other words the backpack can hold all items without any restrictions.

-When picking up any new magazine from the game world it should not immediately be placed into the vest, as this will cause a magazine drop on reload if the vest only had two slots free prior. Instead, magazines should only be placed into the vest upon looting when any other container is already filled. To address the earlier point, items should not be placed into the secure container automatically, but require the player to manually place items in and out of the secure container, even if all other containers are already filled.

 

9 hours ago, Vortex_Bear said:

-Heavy items such as car batteries, propane, etc... should not be able to be placed into a duffle bag and low tier backpacks, and would require a more heavy duty backpack in order to be looted.

Out of reactions already for some reason, but a lot of really great additions here @Vortex_Bear!

I know some may balk at having certain inventory areas be limited to certain types of gear ("I should be able to put a horse statue into a magazine pouch if I want to!"), but I think the current "anything goes" system merely takes advantage of the inventory abstraction being a 2D representation.

Because, sure, on the one hand two squares equals two squares. But it ignores the unimplemented third dimension. A magazine pouch may be "tall" enough to hold a horse statue, but it likely wouldn't be "deep" enough IRL. 

And there is absolutely no reason, IRL, to stow a grenade in a magazine pouch. That "work space" needs to be kept pristine and reliable because managing one's rig is very much one of those "muscle memory" type things that is drilled and drilled and re-drilled again. Because the *LAST* thing someone wants is to find himself confused/fumbling when reaching for a fresh magazine, etc in the heat of the moment.

Plus, even if we set aside the valid "muh realism" argument for a moment, thematically this change may make a lot of sense as well. Combined with some sort of "weight limit" designation, it would stress that backpacks are for looting, whereas "battle rattle" (rigs, combat belts, etc) is for fighting. 

  • Want to be able to haul out that heavy tank battery?
    • Now, the player will need to consider "risking" his rarer/more-expensive backpack in order to carry it.
    • It might create some interesting trade-offs because storage size would not be the only thing to consider.
  • Want to have a lot of magazines at the ready? 
    • Now the player will need to go in with a "high capacity" rig rather than relying on stuffing them into his backpack or prison wallet (*cough cough* PLEASE limit/remove secure containers at the start of the wipe for testing purposes! *cough cough*)
  • etc etc

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And as a side-note, thank you as always for mentioning the past topics :) There's a lot of really good discussion from the community nestled in those threads!

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EDIT:  This might be going a tad overboard, but if they want to keep the "anything goes" inventory system, maybe they could add some sort of retrieval modifiers? Something to the effect of, for every NON-magazine item stowed in the magazine slots of a rig, the "at rig" portion of the reloads is increased by X milliseconds or something. 

This would also dovetail nicely with your suggestion for having "timed" access windows. 

  • Want to keep two extra magazines in your backpack?
    • Fine, but it will take you a while to "get to" them. You can't just <Tab> then instantly transfer things in and out. 
    • Maybe accessing ones backpack could actually involve setting it down in front of the player in some way? I'm picturing something like a "pose" where the character places it on the ground, roots around for what he's looking for, then slings it back onto his shoulders. 
      • Overly complicated? Then maybe a simple "timer" will achieve a similar outcome without the need for additional "visual" elements like animations, etc to enter the picture.
Edited by Spectator6
typos, add edit at bottom
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@Spectator6Thanks! I think you actually mentioned the part of limiting vests to specific items earlier and inspired a conversation about this topic. I appreciate the additional suggestions. I just saw a video of Landmark (I like that guy and he's super entertaining) today where he switched out an armor mid fight in less than 2 seconds, and I kind of snapped at the possibility of doing that, and had to come in here to share some suggestions and the ideas just started flowing.

My ideas for the secured container should only be used in case the container remains in the game and I guess this discussion is enough for a separate topic. If these suggestions are used I think the containers get debuffed enough to the point where hatchling runners should be even more rare to see than they already are at this point, while perfectly retaining it's functionality for the PMCs who go into raids with some gear, who should have no issue finding cover and securing an area to move their valuable items into their secured container.

Maybe on the other hand it could also be done so that vests are unrestricted in what items can be placed into it, but if anything other than magazines, consumables, etc... are placed into it, such as a horse statue, the pmc could have a chance of triggering a fumbling around animation when reloading.

Further it might be also a good idea to restrict grenades to the pockets, if you say that magazine pouches would be a weird spot to place them, which in turn could also prevent PMCs spamming a huge amount of grenades in one go.

I wish that this topic would be explored more by the devs, because certainly there is are some sweet tweaks that could be implemented without even having to create any additional animations to refine the inventory system some more and add additional factors in terms of looting and inventory management.

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20 minutes ago, Vortex_Bear said:

My ideas for the secured container should only be used in case the container remains in the game and I guess this discussion is enough for a separate topic. If these suggestions are used I think the containers get debuffed enough to the point where hatchling runners should be even more rare to see than they already are at this point, while perfectly retaining it's functionality for the PMCs who go into raids with some gear, who should have no issue finding cover and securing an area to move their valuable items into their secured container.

Yes. And to this end, if we go with "exit only" secure containers while in-raid I really liked your idea that items shouldn't be "usable" from the secure container.

  • Want to use the Surv12 to sew your stomach together?
    • Fine! But you've gotta pull into your backpack/rig first. Which means it loses it's "protected" status for the remainder of the raid.

Another option worth exploring may be to have secure containers serve as a sort of "guaranteed" insurance return. So while in raid, a player can freely put things in and take things out of it, BUT! When he dies, he doesn't have those items immediately available to him for the next raid. He must wait a 24 hour period (or whatever) to get his secure container and its contents returned back to him.

This way, if he wants to have a secure container for his next run, he needs to purchase another one (at a fairly hefty price tag?). And all of those juicy bits he had stuffed in there (keys, stims, ammo, etc) would need to be repurchased to fill up his "new" secure container.

Yes? No? Maybe? Possible improvements?

-------------------------------

This kind of resembles my earlier idea of having secure containers be a "per raid" offering similar to insurance, just stripped down and simplified a bit. And probably much less costly, ha!

 

Edited by Spectator6
typos format
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23 minutes ago, Vortex_Bear said:

if you say that magazine pouches would be a weird spot to place them,

Yeah, this is what I have in mind when I talk about pistol mag pouches. This isn't exactly what I use, but it gets the idea across. Good luck fitting a grenade into one of those!

temp.thumb.png.d9e846888bc64e2a7f081218f7c3be9b.png

And if we consider rifle mag pouches, it's obvious that while a person may be able to cram one into there, it would obviously make for a very awkward if not impossible timely retrieval with one hand.

temp2.thumb.jpg.e583080d84888fdcc7066080e7ec52e2.jpg

Which goes back to the notion that there's a REASON dedicated grenade pouches exist. And EFT might be improved by building upon those considerations as well.

I'm thinking specifically of the Belt rig, with all of its separate grenade pouches... Have those single slots be "dedicated" grenade pouches could help give rigs a greater sense of character beyond mere slot space/configuration.

temp3.png.7b04d9f75b43a8722658dc13f7382341.png

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I recently put a lot of my thoughts on the secure containers into words not too long ago in this topic:

Whilst my stance on the secure container itself is pretty "simple" but hard (just remove it), the fallout of an SC removal ends up complicated many things.

Removing the SC overnight (like the 0.12.11 pre-wipe event practically did) has severe consequences regarding gameplay. I'll take the discussion of what comes across the biggest of these consequences.

 

Keys and locked doors.

With nowhere to safely store your precious, rare, valuable keys - how do you get into locked areas? How can you justify risking keys that could cost millions from other players or take hours to obtain yourself?

The solution is to add different ways to get in, a bit of random chance, and an entirely new way to obtain and store keys.

1. Introduce door breaching and lock picking. Make the player able to get into places by loud force or by quiet skill.
Have these two systems take the center stage to how a player gets into where someone doesn't want him to be and let keys be a more "special" thing.
Breaching doors could be anything from kicking down a simple wood door with enough strength, using a handmade crowbar, using a tomahawk multitool, or even going as far as to go really loud and use explosives.
Lockpicking could be a small minigame similar, but more detailed, to how it's done in games like Skyrim, Fallout, or Mafia. It would require less player input the higher the player has leveled his in-game skills and or depending on the tools he's using. You could have to do it "full manual" if using an improvised lock pick, or almost fully automated if you're ELITE level and using a high end multitool.

2. Keys should be radically changed. They should not be just another rare pickup, they should work more like how personalized task items work.
Keys shouldn't be the "end all, be all" of getting into locked areas. Keys should take a backseat to forced entry and lockpicking.
Keys should be treated more like a special task item. What I mean by that is that not only one person can get it in the same raid. Every player in the raid can get the key they're looking for.
Keys should have a couple of places where they can always be found, but it only spawns in one of those places at a time (and the specific place would be different for individual players).
Some keys would still have to be found on different maps than the one they open a door for, but the majority would be on the same map the door is for. Keys should also still be able to be found on enemies or in some jackets (if the jacket or enemy should actually posses that key). Examples of this would be the 114 key being found in the paramedic's jacket in the trunk of his car, Sectarians having "marked" keys on them, USEC Raiders and some Scav Bosses having keycards, as well as no finding random resort keys in Customs construction jackets, no finding access keycards on random normal scavs, etc.
Since keys are no longer "normal" items, they would have their own inventory, similar to that of the task item inventory, where you can have them stored on person on a "keychain" or in your stash/hideout on a "key rack".
Once a player obtains a key, he has it with him in this new inventory. You will not be able to get "multiple" of a key, as keys aren't just "another item".
If you die with a key in your "in raid" inventory, you will lose it and have to find it again - but to repeat myself, the key has fixed spawns, but the specific spawn is randomized between the fixed ones.
A small consequence of this change to keys is that the keytool container item would also be removed, as it would serve no purpose.
Keys and keycards, whilst taking a backseat to breaching and lockpicking, will still be the only way to get into certain areas, notably the Lab and bunker doors, as well as being the absolute quietest and fastest (best) way to get into a locked area.
Access keycards should still behave more like a "normal" item, as it's more of a ticket then an actual key.

There may be lots of detail I'm forgetting on the spot or things I've overlooked in the subject of "keys". Feel free to ask about further specifics on different things or take up the discussion yourself.

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@Majlo thanks for your suggestions. Breaching or lock picking doors could also have different chances of success or difficulty levels, depending on the loot that could spawn in the specific rooms. A failed lock picking attempt by whoever does it could then make it so that the lock is jammed or damaged and even a key wouldn't work with it, requiring it to be breached to enter.

If keys need to be found in raid, definitely I would also suggest to make it more dynamic instead of spawning the keys in a single position only to prevent people from always running the same routes.

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-Disable the zoom/change FOV effect when adsing with unmagnified sights, it is quite annoying imo as it actually makes adsing harder. I once encountered a bug where my as val would not zoom in when adsing and the flow of aiming at a target felt a lot smoother due to the image not constantly shifting in and out. This could help a little bit to resolve people intentionally choosing to hip fire over using their sights.

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14 hours ago, Vortex_Bear said:

Breaching or lock picking doors could also have different chances of success or difficulty levels, depending on the loot that could spawn in the specific rooms. A failed lock picking attempt by whoever does it could then make it so that the lock is jammed or damaged and even a key wouldn't work with it, requiring it to be breached to enter.

Absolutely. Different levels of outcomes of success and failure in opening doors either through lockpicking or breaching leading to having to do it differently (usually having to use more force) should also be part of these systems.

To add on to the different levels of outcomes, some keys could, as the are now, have "durability" - be more fragile, causing them to sometimes break in the lock, forcing you to breach your way through as well as having to find the key again, since it broke (or potentially have to repair it through a merchant/specialist like Mechanic or do it yourself at your workbench, if you have enough skill and the right tools).

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37 minutes ago, Majlo said:

Absolutely. Different levels of outcomes of success and failure in opening doors either through lockpicking or breaching leading to having to do it differently (usually having to use more force) should also be part of these systems.

To add on to the different levels of outcomes, some keys could, as the are now, have "durability" - be more fragile, causing them to sometimes break in the lock, forcing you to breach your way through as well as having to find the key again, since it broke (or potentially have to repair it through a merchant/specialist like Mechanic or do it yourself at your workbench, if you have enough skill and the right tools).

Great suggestions right there. Definitely there can be more done with these systems to make the outcomes more varied instead of just running to point A to open some locked doors, then going to point B to open some more and knowing you have a 100% chance of getting behind the doors. If it were different you'd never know how it would work out exactly and having to pick locked doors would also leave you vulnerable, requiring you to be more tactical and methodical about your approach to lower risks and increase your chances of success, or draw in attention from nearby contacts when they hear you breaching doors.

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As a 3rd point to my discussion on "keys and locked areas":

Doors shouldn't always spawn in the same state every time. What I mean by this is that doors (not all, but most "normal" doors) should have a chance to spawn open or closed. There shouldn't be any predictability in the game on "oh, that door always spawned closed/open", every raid should be different.

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16 minutes ago, Majlo said:

As a 3rd point to my discussion on "keys and locked areas":

Doors shouldn't always spawn in the same state every time. What I mean by this is that doors (not all, but most "normal" doors) should have a chance to spawn open or closed. There shouldn't be any predictability in the game on "oh, that door always spawned closed/open", every raid should be different.

This is a huge thing really, because any player, as through memorizing the default state of doors, can immediately tell if a player came though an area, or might be still located inside the specific area, based on observing the status of the doors, if the enemy player didn't make an effort to close doors after opening them to search rooms.

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Just came across this video from Veritas comparing the available scopes and optics include leaks of a reworked versions, which appear to be community mods:



I'd love for optics and sights to have better eye relief as well as also implementing the correct shading of the glass coating for the various sights, nv and brightness modes, a larger number of available reticle versions to choose from for the available sights and scopes.

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-As per @Majlo's idea and suggestion, have it so that skill mastering for weapons have some more logical sort order other than by experience which can be quite hard to find a certain weapon, such as a going by platform or gun type increasing with bullet caliber and possibly having guns within their caliber sorted by year of introduction.

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It would really be nice, and would help the game enable more users if you devs implement the AMD Fidelity Super Resolution for this game. My understanding is that it takes about 2 hours code time to facilitate. It would also be free advertising for the game. It doesn't hurt to broaden your user base and it is free.

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10 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

Suggestion: Apply the same "can't sprint through bushes" logic to the some of the lower hanging trees.

Perhaps with a slightly faster pace, but still limited. It is after all easier to move a few branches out of the way than an entire bush rooted into the ground.

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1 hour ago, Majlo said:

Perhaps with a slightly faster pace, but still limited. It is after all easier to move a few branches out of the way than an entire bush rooted into the ground.

Makes perfect sense, hope this gets heard!

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