Jump to content

How to implement a balnced Karma system


Recommended Posts

BRiiTASH

I have thought long and hard about some features that could accompany the karma mechanic to make it a bit simpler to implement. I would like to share these with the BSG team and hope to share new ideas and inspiration with them.
For Karma Mechanics, they should add features such as:
. Exiting a raid with positive Karma Gives you Bonus XP

. Exiting a raid with negative Karma gives you Negative XP

. Exiting a Raid with Extremely Low Karma such as Killing multiple players from same faction makes all loot no longer found in raid and has % of the loot you extract with being lost whilst extracting. This could affect gear you took into raid or loot you found in your backpack. Also Gear lost during exfil because of low Karma would not be recoverable by insurance.

. Low/Negative Karma reduces the successfulness of getting All/Any of your gear back from insurance. * Players with low Karma and Trader standing are less likely to have that traders men want to do a good job of finding all their lost gear in Raid.

. Shooting at a friendly faction player first without having been shot at/received damage first from that player/their party will deal negative Karma to both you and your party.

. Shooting a player/party who has incurred negative Karma in raid will not deal you negative Karma aswell.

. Players in Mixed faction partys are considered Raiders and immune from the positive karma system. *Basically shooting a player in a Mixed Bear/USEC group will not deal negative Karma as they have basically betrayed their faction by teaming with the enemy and are now more akin to the Raiders than an actual USEC/BEAR soldier.

. Karma levels are persistent after raids. 

. Exiting a raid with positive Karma, sharing loot with other players of the same faction not in your party in raid will also net you bonus positive Karma.

. Exiting a raid without killing players of your same faction will earn you positive karma.

. Items traded between players of the same faction in raid will only net positive karma once during the first exchange. Trading that item between other players in the party in the same raid again nets no karma change.

. Incurring very low karma in raid will spawn more scavs near you and aggro all in raid scavs on you *Cursed*

. Incurring very low Karma has a chance of spawning a high level Raider who will hunt you down. *For every Very low Karma player in a party alive, 1x raider will spawn.

. Dieing with negative Karma will reduce the chance of your insured gear being successfully recovered in its entirety from the raid.

. Having a freindly player in your party recieve very low karma in raid affects all members of that party. *Guilt by Association*

. Entering a raid with very low Karma will give you the Cursed trait, have extra scavs spawn on you at some point in raid, and a chance of a High Level Raider spawning to kill you.

. Killing players of the opposite faction gains you positive karma.

. Killing players in Mixed faction partys gains you Karma regardless if they shoot at you first or not.

. Positive Karma gives: 
*better RNG loot
* increased helmet ricochet chance
*decreased insurance prices
* increased return speed on insurance
* Decreased weapon failure rate
* decreased weapon/gear repair costs
* better prices when buying/selling at traders

 *Negative Karma gives you the opposite of the traits above.

These are just some of my suggestions on how to implement the karma system. I would love to hear other peoples suggestions and some feedback on my ideas.

Edited by BRiiTASH
Added some extra mechanics
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
RedFuryFIVE6

this looks well thought out but i feel the Karma should mainly affect the SCAV load outs instead of your pmc. Its hard enough for people to distinguish whats a scav and whats a pmc already, when trying to see if the pmc is a bear or a usec would be even worse in my opinion. Player scavs are in a mode of griefing any other player scavs. I'd personally like to see their scav taken away 1 hour per every scav killed, as well as their loot lost. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Zolty47
vor 49 Minuten schrieb RedFuryFIVE6:

this looks well thought out but i feel the Karma should mainly affect the SCAV load outs instead of your pmc. Its hard enough for people to distinguish whats a scav and whats a pmc already, when trying to see if the pmc is a bear or a usec would be even worse in my opinion. Player scavs are in a mode of griefing any other player scavs. I'd personally like to see their scav taken away 1 hour per every scav killed, as well as their loot lost. 

Scavs are not acomplete faction, but a summary of multiple mini factions, gangs, warbands and lone wolfs, so a karma system would more complex if lore gets visited completely.

The 2 main factions, Usec and Bear are companies (Usec) and state special forces (Bear), you are on contract with one of them, having to execute tasks / objectives, following rules. 

It should also be possible to get fired, so you become a real scav.

I would rather like the conception being always yourself, regardless you "show up" as Bear or scav. Being incognito as Scav would allow you to disfollow company/state special forces rules without being caught. Scav play as "hidden flag" or even "false flag" action. So you can act freely without making your boss angry.

Sounds fine as a szenario?

A karma system would be much more logical for the PMCs than for Scavs, the later are random bunch of small groups / gangs surviving on their own.

Its partly reflected in the game already. Killing an Scav in an area makes only scabs angry who belong to the dead scav. Other scav bands stay neutral.

What I want:

1. Karma system for PMCs

2. A PMC-Life-Point-system

I thought ofboth systems as distinct with different purposes but can influence each other in a few points, so seeing the whole picture gets highly complex.

In this way, sorry for the wall of text:

1. PMC-Life-point-system (alternatively you might call it PMC-Reputation / Performance system)

••••Since Nikita said that he wants a system that rewards authentic gameplay and punishes „non-authentic“ gameplay like hatchling runs, here a possibility to deal with it, no harsh punishments, but meaningful rewards.••••
 
A Mechanic with following supposed to have features:
1.    Progress system
2.    Rank system
3.    Safety net for people with a bad stroke / day
4.    Leads people into more authentic gameplay, means value your PMC life more than your gear. Anti-Hatchling mechanic basically.
5.    Questing can be linked to a minimum reputation == LP count
6.    Higher ranks give you access to better gear by traders.

Detailed, but not as complicated as you may think.

(Super Mario bros. + Rainbow Six Siege + Donkey Kong 64 Inspirated, but without an "Game over!" hitting 0 LP will have some effects though)

Everyone starts with 5 LP for his PMC with the implementation of this feature.

Everything that increases your Life-points / reputation:

1. Gaining LP through looting

•••LP could only be granted if you extract at least 12 minutes after raid has started.•••

A. +1 LP, if raid survived and 14 kg loot extracted (for all next points: found in raid loot rule, and no „run through raid status“) PvP will be rewarded by the system too, but differently

B. +2 LP, if raid survived and  24 kg loot extracted

C. +3 LP, if raid survived and 42 kg loot extracted

D. + 1 LP, extracting with at least 1 of following items (wont stack):
•    A twitch streamer barter item
•    Ash-12, M4, 416, MP9, M1911, golden TT („found in raid“ or raider scav boss eqippment)

E. + 1 LP, extracting with 1 food item + 1 drink item (both „found in raid“), pair of food + drink
---> + 2 LP, extracting with 2 pair of food + drink items (both „found in raid“)
---> + 3 LP, extracting with 4 pair of food + drink items (both „found in raid“)

F. + 1 LP, extracting with 3 „found in raid“ medical items
---> + 2 LP, extracting with 8 „found in raid“ medical items. (No food, water or medication at flea market anymore, leaving the hideout is so necessary to get life saving goods).

G. + 1 LP, if you collected and extract with more than 180 bullet rounds „found in raid“ from small ammo boxes / cases or magazines, regardless the type of ammo.

---> + 2 LP, if you collected at least 300 bullet rounds „found in raid“ and extract with it, same as above.
Example: + 3 LP (42 kg loot) + 3 LP (3 dog tags, below your rank and below platinum) + 2 LP (2 pairs of food+water) + 1 LP (180 rounds etc.) + 1 LP (twitch streamer barter item) = 10 LP

H. + 1 LP, if extracting with at least 3 „in hide-out usable“ and „found in raid‘ items.
---> + 2 LP, if extracting with at least 8 „in hide-out usable“ and „found in raid“ items.

Of course you are not obligated to extract always with at least with 14 kg, if your 5 kg of loot for example are worth more than 2 mils, then good luck. Also there are multiple ways to earn LP, you should have always have a good reason to go out and indanger your PMC Life, life is a precious thing, way more worth than your gear.

Good reasons to go out of your hideout:

1. Need of water and food

2. Need for equippment for hideout

3. Contract objective of Bear / Usec

4. Medication

5. Ammo and other consumable-like gear

6. Etc..feel free to complete the list.


 Binding the system to loot weight and amount, not money worth, is way more easier to code since the weight numbers dont change. So this may be a flaw of the system, but possibly an unavoidable one.

2. Gaining LP through PvP (and best way loosing it)

••••••Rule change: Dog tags not allowed in Secure container anymore•••••

A. +1 LP If killing a player + extracting with the dead players dog tag (dog tags cant be put into secure container and teammates dog tag does not count).  Extracting with 4 earned dog tags  means + 4 LP. Its enough to extract with the dog tag, not necessary to be the killer.
Extra boni: +1 LP for Platinum dog tag, + 2 LP for VIP dog tag, +3 LP for ELITE dog tag, +4 LP for „Escaper“ dog tag.

These rewards you will get regardless of your own rank, but dont forget loot the dog tag and extract alive with it!

B. If PMC has 0 LP, then not allowed to play as PMC, for now. You can not have negative LP. LP restore in following ways, Read on.

C. If PMC has 0 LP, then Scav-wait-timer is set to 0 minutes. A 0-minute Scav always wears a red sweat shirt / hoodie.

•••••Scav-wait-timer is also set to 0, if your total stash + property worth is less than 175.000 Rubel, but Scav runs can only earn LP as long as your LP are by 0 points.••••

D. If you survive as a "0 minute" Scav, then your PMC gets +1 LP, so simple, Scav-wait-timer will get set back to normal (if also more than 175.000 Rubel gear worth).

E. If your PMC hits 0 LP he will get automatically + 3 LP after 24 hours, but only if he is still by 0 LP after these 24 hours (If you werent able to survive even once as a 0-Minute Scav)

F. If your PMC has 0 LP, then your Hide out crafting capabilities, your bitcoin farm are „frozen“, until your PMC gets at least 1 LP again.

2. All ways loosing LP

A. A disconnect from a match will cost you automatically 2 LP.(Only if servers would finally work fine)

B.  Suicide will cost you 3 LP. (Dying from fall damage and grenades)

C. - 1 LP, if PMC dies in raid. Special situations later on explained.
An Platinum player will loose 1 extra LP, VIP - 2 extra LP, ELITE - 3 extra LP, Escaper – 4 extra LP by dieing in raid.
These ranks are supposed to have  a high  survival rate + well done matches.

D. Teamkill will cost you 2 LP, (squad play, teammates dog tags have no „LP“ value)

E. If you got killed by an PMC with a lower rank, then the difference between your ranks determines the LP loss:

Ranking:
Wood = 0
Steel = 1
Silver = 2
Gold = 3
Platinum = 4
VIP = 5
ELITE = 6
Escaper = 7

Equation example:

You: Escaper got shot by a Woodie:

- 1 LP PMC death – 4 LP Escaper death – 1 LP headshot - (Escaper rank 7 - Wood rank 0) - 1 LP (shot in the first 10 Minutes of the Match) = - 14 LP

So PvP becomes more risky if you have higher reputation / LP.

F. If you got killed from an AI-Scav, Scav-Boss bodyguard  or Raiders then you loose 1 additional LP.

G. If you die because of dehydration or energy depletion then you loose 1 additional LP, but afterwards your hydration and energy get set back to 90.

H. Once a week your PMC looses 2 LP, but that can NOT reduced underneath 12 LP.

I. If you die through a headshot you loose 1 additional LP, regardless of the shooters identity.

J. If a Scav-Boss kills you, you loose 2 additional LP:
Example: -1 LP (PMC dies) – 2 LP (Scav-Boss kills you) – 1 LP (headshot) = - 4 LP.

K. If you extract, after Match-timer has ended you cant earn LP for your Match actions anymore.

L. If you die in the first 10 minutes of the Match, you loose 1 additional LP.

Some equippment from traders only for sale if you have at least 14 LP as PMC. 

Almost every rank level (Silver, Gold, Plantinum, VIP, ELITE, ESCAPER) unlocks better gear, clothings, etc.for sale, here could get BSG highly creative.

Earn LP / reputation by certain amounts of loot, extracting with food+water, or by successful PvP, dont forget collecting the dog tags!
VIP-status for all PMC, that have >= than 60 LP. Get access to VIP restricted goods by traders. Highest trader level required too.

LP dependent dog-tags:

Wood dog tag for < 5 LP.
Steel dog tag for < 14 LP.
Silver dog tag for < 25 LP.
Gold dog tag for < 42 LP.
Platinum dog tag for < 60 LP.
VIP dog tag for < 80 LP.
ELITE dog tag =< 100 LP.
"Escaper" dog tag for > 100 LP.

•••••BSG developers have always their own special version of ID cards, above the Usec or Bear symbol is BSG in golden lines and pitch black background.••••


I guess it would be the rarest and most precious barter item!!!

After match we should get an screen, which shows us the „progress“ in LP / prestige and many other points.
LP are mostly granted for surviving + looting, these 2 belong together and cant be bypassed by any means. (Super Mario Bros NES version  has at least in comparison to the current build a way more serious survival LP system, without one you would play totally reckless)

At least we loose gear with "death", but with enough money you dont feel the loss at all. The PMC-LP-system will guide you into an survivalistic kind of mindset, your skills should improve faster.

If out of luck, then you get the 0-minute scav play.

There are multiple ways to bind these 2 systems together / influence each other.

1. Getting 0 LP gets you fired out of Bear / Usec for example, negative karma does the same thing. This doesnot mean you cant play as PMC anymore, PMC goes rogue and playable if at least 1 LP (wait or play as 0 minute scav).

2. To (re) join a faction you have to prove your skill first by gaining 14 LP at least. The PMC-LP-system works as

A. A skill indicator

B. Rank system

C. Safety net because of 0 LP ---> 0 minute scav (scav does not consume your gear₩

D. Progress system, higher LP gets you access to better gear by traders

Existence minimum by 150.000 Roubles total gear worth (all inclusive, also all keys and containers/boxes).

If you fall under this line Scav-Timer gets set to 0 minutes, stays that way as long as you are underneath 150.000 Roubles eqippment total worth.

Secure container tweak:

Opens for loot after a certain time, wrist watch makes a pieping sound, if mechanical, a digital watch blinks for 4 seconds.

Map dependent:

Beginner maps, 8 minutes:

Customs, Factory

Core maps, 15 minutes:

Reserve, Woods, Interchange

Big / high tier loot maps, 30 minutes:

Shoreline, Streets of Tarkov, Lighthouse, Labs

This container tweak may solve the hatchling issue on its own. But the PMC-LP-system limits the hatchling runs by design.

Play authentic to gain LP, so PMC survival is priority 1.

I appreciate all constructive feedback, take your time.

Nice weekend everybody!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
RedFuryFIVE6

I have to disagree. How many times can you go in as a scav and kill everyone you see until you have no group left to fall back on. Being able to come back every 10-20 mins and betray other fellow scavs as a scav, without any punishment, is whats destroying the lore. 

Simply put, player scavs grief all other scavs, and that's what I would mainly want changed. They can do this on a replay every 10-20 mins without a need to play as a pmc. If it does make it to karma on a pmc it should mainly affect players who aren't playing the game as intended. hatchling running, extract camping, or quest camping.

Honestly any map that's played should be mandatory to go in with the quest as an objective. If the quest is not completed then let it negatively affect them that way. Aren't USECs and BEARs supposed to be going in to gather intelligence? Not just go in kill and take out loot? lol

Edited by RedFuryFIVE6
Link to post
Share on other sites
Zolty47
vor 12 Stunden schrieb RedFuryFIVE6:

I have to disagree. How many times can you go in as a scav and kill everyone you see until you have no group left to fall back on. Being able to come back every 10-20 mins and betray other fellow scavs as a scav, without any punishment, is whats destroying the lore. 

Simply put, player scavs grief all other scavs, and that's what I would mainly want changed. They can do this on a replay every 10-20 mins without a need to play as a pmc. If it does make it to karma on a pmc it should mainly affect players who aren't playing the game as intended. hatchling running, extract camping, or quest camping.

Honestly any map that's played should be mandatory to go in with the quest as an objective. If the quest is not completed then let it negatively affect them that way. Aren't USECs and BEARs supposed to be going in to gather intelligence? Not just go in kill and take out loot? lol

It would basically make more sense at this point that any other scav would aggro on player scav, since player scav spawns in as a lone wolf scav without any group connection.

Raiders are the exception here, they would warn player scav not to get closer or risking getting shot.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RedFuryFIVE6
7 hours ago, Craall said:

I'd rather they just never added karma, either for scavs or PMC's.

well yea, most people who scav in and grief all others wouldn't want a karma system. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/18/2020 at 8:14 PM, RedFuryFIVE6 said:

well yea, most people who scav in and grief all others wouldn't want a karma system. 

Yes that's definitely it, it's not because Tarkov has a ton of freedom in how you approach raids and I don't want everyone to be boxed into shaking hands and being nice all the time just because a few people can't deal with getting killed now and then.

Link to post
Share on other sites
RedFuryFIVE6
On 5/22/2020 at 5:42 AM, Craall said:

Yes that's definitely it, it's not because Tarkov has a ton of freedom in how you approach raids and I don't want everyone to be boxed into shaking hands and being nice all the time just because a few people can't deal with getting killed now and then.

it destroys the lore. Like i said before, how many times could you scav in and kill everything until you have no group even in the scav world to fall back on. People who like to grief others will not want a karma system. it's kinda pathetic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RedFuryFIVE6 said:

it destroys the lore. Like i said before, how many times could you scav in and kill everything until you have no group even in the scav world to fall back on. People who like to grief others will not want a karma system. it's kinda pathetic.

This lore?

Quote

Amidst the chaos and lawlessness, scarcity of vital provisions and territories, the first to lift up their heads are shady characters, unembarrassed by excessive moral or ethical restraints or quick to lose them under influence of conditions. They gather into packs, living by dog-eat-dog rules, cutting each other throats over a better piece. This is how yesterday's civilians become Scavs.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
RedFuryFIVE6

yes, its not that hard to understand. How many times can you go out in a dog eat dog world killing people until you have no one left. its a every easy idea to understand. 

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Paescu96

My Opinion on the Scav Topic, you should have the same Scav every Time with his Reputation.

If you shot all Scavs on Sight, then they don't trust you anymore and Shot you on Sight.

To the 20 min, the Scavtimer needs to be higher 1 hour or so. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RedFuryFIVE6 said:

yes, its not that hard to understand. How many times can you go out in a dog eat dog world killing people until you have no one left. its a every easy idea to understand. 

How are there millions of PMC's all trapped in one small region? You're trying to apply logic to isolated situations to argue against pvp in a pvp game. Scav team ups are fun because of how rare they are, how much work they require and how quickly they can fall apart. Forcing everyone to play nice takes away from that just so a few players who can't deal with being killed now and then can force everyone to play like they do.

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
RedFuryFIVE6

the game is a hyper realistic game, that's where the logic comes in. you also failed to answer the question. Its not forcing them to play nice, its forcing them to think about their actions about betrayal, if it's really worth it to kill for that backpack/gun. You should not be able to come back in 20 mins and do it again on loop. This is a hyper realistic game, not call of duty. It also is not just a few players, you will see over 80% of scavs kill just to kill. As i said before, the trolls will love no karma system.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...