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Saint_Ajora

"Found in Raid" changes are bad

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Saint_Ajora
Posted (edited)

Here's why...

  1. Things not sold on market due to time are no longer FIR and cannot be reposted.

  2. Bitcoin farm value now plummets in value as the things you trade for them are not marketable.

  3. People cannot play the market like a stock market (which is something BSG said they wanted with the "different roles" in the road map.)

  4. Things taken into a raid can no longer be put on market (Say you wanted to try a gun out and don't like it RIP that money)

  5. Things crafted will eventually be not FIR killing another role that was specifically stated BSG wanted.

  6. Things manually taken off market are no longer FIR.

  7. Kappa is going to be almost impossible to attain for anyone except for the absolute top tier chads.

  8. It's not going to stop hatchet runners/hatchlings/nakeds in any significant volume; if anything you are going to see more due to the FIR required items for quests.

  9. People are just going to go to a forum somewhere else and set up trading deals there. Let's take a labs keycard for an example
    1. I post a trade deal on forum. 1 labs keycard for 130k.
    2. Someone accepts my terms.
    3. They post something actually FIR on market for the 130k.
    4. We go into a raid together I drop keycard, he picks it up.
    5. Deal done.

Bottom line is this is a bad idea and it's only going to hurt most to try to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. Your time is better spent elsewhere.

Side note :: Please stop listening to the streamers and take thermals out of the game.

Edited by Saint_Ajora
formatting got wierd
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PyroYoda
4 minutes ago, Saint_Ajora said:

Side note :: Please stop listening to the streamers and take thermals out of the game.

If you don't like thermals, this game is not for you.

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Saint_Ajora
Posted (edited)

Last I checked, IRL thermals cant see though glass and don't work after an EMP went off. Not to mention just how easy they are to get. Instead of trying to fix them, just take them out. the game will be FAR better.

ADDENDUM :: Also I like how that's the only thing you pull from my post. Reading is hard for some, I understand.

Edited by Saint_Ajora
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PyroYoda
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Saint_Ajora said:

Last I checked, IRL thermals cant see though glass and don't work after an EMP went off. Not to mention just how easy they are to get. Instead of trying to fix them, just take them out. the game will be FAR better.

ADDENDUM :: Also I like how that's the only thing you pull from my post. Reading is hard for some, I understand.

Nope, sorry I read all. I'm sick of people complaining about realistic items.

Edited by PyroYoda
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MarcBorgia
17 hours ago, Saint_Ajora said:

Here's why...

  1. Things not sold on market due to time are no longer FIR and cannot be reposted.

  2. Bitcoin farm value now plummets in value as the things you trade for them are not marketable.

  3. People cannot play the market like a stock market (which is something BSG said they wanted with the "different roles" in the road map.)

  4. Things taken into a raid can no longer be put on market (Say you wanted to try a gun out and don't like it RIP that money)

  5. Things crafted will eventually be not FIR killing another role that was specifically stated BSG wanted.

  6. Things manually taken off market are no longer FIR.

  7. Kappa is going to be almost impossible to attain for anyone except for the absolute top tier chads.

  8. It's not going to stop hatchet runners/hatchlings/nakeds in any significant volume; if anything you are going to see more due to the FIR required items for quests.

  9. People are just going to go to a forum somewhere else and set up trading deals there. Let's take a labs keycard for an example
    1. I post a trade deal on forum. 1 labs keycard for 130k.
    2. Someone accepts my terms.
    3. They post something actually FIR on market for the 130k.
    4. We go into a raid together I drop keycard, he picks it up.
    5. Deal done.

Bottom line is this is a bad idea and it's only going to hurt most to try to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. Your time is better spent elsewhere.

Side note :: Please stop listening to the streamers and take thermals out of the game.

I dont really agree with some of the things you said but i do think its dumb that your container items lose FIR if you die. If you die after the 10min/600xp they should keep the status. Thats the point of the secure container is so you have a chance to not loose everything. What if theres a team extract camping? Maybe some people can make it happen but im sure 99% cant, so you spend the whole raid doing what you need to do and doing well just to get shafted at the very end and loose all hope of making someone off the raid.

As far as thermals go, they should be removed imo. The thermal scopes are reasonably obtainable but the head set ones are left only for the players that are either really good or have the time to just grind. Theres no way a casual player can utilize them so it only benefits the people that are already at the top. Night vision is plenty.

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Dr01d

Losing FIR inside the SC is a pretty bad change. I can understand preventing it from being sold on the FM but preventing us from handing it in for tasks is a bit insulting. At this point, why even bother with SC's? They're practically useless now.

I'm old-hand at Tarkov now, and even I'm struggling. A lot of new players aren't going to fare so well.

Thermals belong in tarkov, but i think they should be expensive and hard as balls to get. Perhaps a daily task reward of one.

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Shmickel

It does sucks to lose FIR when leaving to early or dying in the SC. Finally found a gas analyser thinking i got it FIR. When leaving, i was short of a minute from the 10 min requirement. Sucks, but i'm fine with it. Rather that then people running fearless/naked for item to place on auction without the penalty of surviving the raid.

Also it will force people to use the hideout more and stretch the game play for some, which people want because they get bored of capping to fast.(btw i never cap, im way too casual to reach end game before wipes)

Cant get out alive with a flash drive? Make them.

It will change the way some people play but in the end it will create a better game play for most.

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skyflashde

Actually the changes are great.

I hope they continue on that road and take thermals out of the dealer inventory.

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VenomChu

SC stuff losing FIR when you die should really only apply before that 10 minute mark to help keep the rats down, it's really aggravating getting those quest items then dying and losing their FIR no matter how long I've been in the raid for.

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Xanathos

I don't see a point to my gamma container now, I can't even sell keys and whats the point of putting valuables in the container if i can no longer sell on the flea market. I could understand having it work like that for the traders but the market was a place we could sell anything now its limited? The suggestions in here like the 10min and anything else are all understandable but to just lose the ability outright is dumb.

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Saint_Ajora
9 hours ago, Shmickel said:
9 hours ago, Shmickel said:

Also it will force people to use the hideout more and stretch the game play for some, which people want because they get bored of capping to fast.(btw i never cap, im way too casual to reach end game before wipes)

So the majority of players should be penalized because the elite few get bored too quickly? That's their own fault for zerging through the content.

 

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Dr01d

That's not what the changes are about though. BSG just want to stretch the game playability out.

Some balance here is necessary, and chances are they will walk some of the changes back.

But your comprehensive list of disatisfaction probably won't change a lot.

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PyroYoda
14 hours ago, Dr01d said:

Losing FIR inside the SC is a pretty bad change. I can understand preventing it from being sold on the FM but preventing us from handing it in for tasks is a bit insulting. At this point, why even bother with SC's? They're practically useless now.

I'm old-hand at Tarkov now, and even I'm struggling. A lot of new players aren't going to fare so well.

Thermals belong in tarkov, but i think they should be expensive and hard as balls to get. Perhaps a daily task reward of one.

Finally a good comment about thermals. Not someone who is bitching...

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Saint_Ajora
7 hours ago, PyroYoda said:

Finally a good comment about thermals. Not someone who is bitching...

For someone who says they don't use thermals, you certainly seem to be very much for them. Even though they are entirely unrealistic in how they are implemented. apparently to you pointing that out is "bitching." Maybe you should stop trying to low key troll and use what brain you have and think critically.

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LasseNielsen

My 2 cents 🙂

1. Things not sold on market due to time are no longer FIR and cannot be reposted.

That has to be a mistake, that would need to change, makes no sense it's like that.

2. Bitcoin farm value now plummets in value as the things you trade for them are not marketable.

I think bitcoin farms are going to be a major factor for most people, a maxed out hideout, is going to make a surplus of 650k per day.
Just selling the coins to Therapist.

3. People cannot play the market like a stock market (which is something BSG said they wanted with the "different roles" in the road map.)

I played the fleamarket before, made tons of cash on people selling stuff like mags full of BS or M995. But i always found it a weird mechanic, that you could buy out an item, and resell it more expensive. Through the same dealer you bought the item from??? Makes no sense. I like the new system, it really makes every raid critical, and makes you really weigh what gear you use, as money isn't as easy to get anymore.

4. Things taken into a raid can no longer be put on market (Say you wanted to try a gun out and don't like it RIP that money)

Well i kinda agree. A cool solution, could be when you save a weapons preset, and then log into a "offline" map, you could choose a weapons preset you made, to bring into a offline.

5. Things crafted will eventually be not FIR killing another role that was specifically stated BSG wanted.

That sounds like a bad idea, if that happens, i hope they change the crafting so that we have more control over what we can craft.
Like recasing ammo to make better ammo out of unwanted ammo, that way all loot becomes more valuable.

6. Things manually taken off market are no longer FIR.

Again, same as no. 1, it has to be a mistake from BSG, it shouldn't work like that, i'm fairly curtain it's an oversight that will be fixed, within reasonable time.

7. Kappa is going to be almost impossible to attain for anyone except for the absolute top tier chads.

Most casual players will never get the Kappa container. The questline is really just to difficult for average players to do within a 6 month period. I don't mind it being hard, i just wish more quest was less specific. PMC Headshots with tremor... Why? 

8. It's not going to stop hatchet runners/hatchlings/nakeds in any significant volume; if anything you are going to see more due to the FIR required items for quests.

I kinda agree, becourse now every loadout is super valuable for a player, items are more expensive now to, so if you lose a loadout you really have to loot a lot of stuff to recoup that loss.
I hope they make daily quests, where you can earn some roubles, that would make fewer people needing to do pistol runs.
 

People are just going to go to a forum somewhere else and set up trading deals there. Let's take a labs keycard for an example
1. I post a trade deal on forum. 1 labs keycard for 130k.
2. Someone accepts my terms.
3. They post something actually FIR on market for the 130k.
4. We go into a raid together I drop keycard, he picks it up.
5. Deal done.


I hate to say it, but thats not gonna happen, people are way to lazy to go through all that for selling 130k item.

Bottom line is this is a bad idea and it's only going to hurt most to try to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. Your time is better spent elsewhere.

Side note :: Please stop listening to the streamers and take thermals out of the game.

I agree that BSG listen to streamers maybe to much. But again it's really what is it they want with the game. Is it to cater to the hardcore veteran players, or the larger group of casual players. And i'm sorry to say this, as a casual gamer, that they are not going to cater to casual players. There aren't any other semi competitive game out there, where totally new players are joining the same plays as veteran players with thousands of hours and PMC kills. And the new changes are just going to favor the already good players.

I never understood thats the "Hardcore" part of the game... Having newbies playing with elite players... shouldn't the game be more or at least as difficult for the elite players then the newbies? 
I just don't see the fun or the challenge, killing a level 4 using a saiga 9 and a paca, when you are rolling a gen4, altyn and a pimped out m4. Other then making the newbie give up the game faster. i don't see a reason or an argument for it.


Also... Thermals... I don't like them in the game as they are... People are always talking about how realistic it is that they are there... But how they work in the game, isn't at all how they work in real life. I wouldn't mind them if they actually worked like in real life. And as expensive and rare.

Sorry for the long post, but you deserved it, you gave your initial post some thought and should have some feedback. 🙂

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Saint_Ajora
9 hours ago, Dr01d said:

That's not what the changes are about though. BSG just want to stretch the game playability out.

Some balance here is necessary, and chances are they will walk some of the changes back.

But your comprehensive list of disatisfaction probably won't change a lot.

It's not dissatisfaction, it's logic. I haven't played this wipe yet mainly due to seeing the load times.

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LasseNielsen
20 hours ago, Shmickel said:

It does sucks to lose FIR when leaving to early or dying in the SC. Finally found a gas analyser thinking i got it FIR. When leaving, i was short of a minute from the 10 min requirement. Sucks, but i'm fine with it. Rather that then people running fearless/naked for item to place on auction without the penalty of surviving the raid.

Also it will force people to use the hideout more and stretch the game play for some, which people want because they get bored of capping to fast.(btw i never cap, im way too casual to reach end game before wipes)

Cant get out alive with a flash drive? Make them.

It will change the way some people play but in the end it will create a better game play for most.

Just wondering, can you get Skier to level 2, without doing the What's on the flash drive? Quest.

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Saint_Ajora
5 minutes ago, LasseNielsen said:

Just wondering, can you get Skier to level 2, without doing the What's on the flash drive? Quest.

Depends on your edition of the game. I believe the top 2 can while the bottom 2 cannot.

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Majlo
On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Things not sold on market due to time are no longer FIR and cannot be reposted.

Yeah, I can get behind this complaint.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Bitcoin farm value now plummets in value as the things you trade for them are not marketable.

The bitcoin farm's value is in the bitcoin themselves being sold directly to Therapist, and guns can still be put on the market, even without find in raid. I don't see how this update effects the bitcoin farm at all.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

People cannot play the market like a stock market (which is something BSG said they wanted with the "different roles" in the road map.)

I agree, you should be able to sell and buy back and forward, but you should also be penalized by traders if selling back and forward their stock.

For now, this is better than traders selling out just to be reposted at a higher fee.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Things taken into a raid can no longer be put on market (Say you wanted to try a gun out and don't like it RIP that money)

Your example is flawed, as guns can still be placed back on the market, even without FiR status.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Things crafted will eventually be not FIR killing another role that was specifically stated BSG wanted.

What??? Everything crafted in the hideout and obtained through the hideout has FiR status.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Things manually taken off market are no longer FIR.

I can get behind this complaint as well.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Kappa is going to be almost impossible to attain for anyone except for the absolute top tier chads.

The "Collector" task is exactly that. It is for the hardcore of the hardcore players. The Kappa secure container being harder to obtain does not effect the rest of the game, and IMO, it's a good thing for such a task to be harder to get to.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

It's not going to stop hatchet runners/hatchlings/nakeds in any significant volume; if anything you are going to see more due to the FIR required items for quests.

Melee runners are not a problem, and has never been a problem. The problem is that they can take things out of the raid before extracting said item.

This is a flaw with how the secure containers work.

This update forces EVERYONE, to have to make it out alive if they want their items to be FiR, which is a great leap in the right direction, but still didn't solve the problem.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

People are just going to go to a forum somewhere else and set up trading deals there. Let's take a labs keycard for an example
1. I post a trade deal on forum. 1 labs keycard for 130k.
2. Someone accepts my terms.
3. They post something actually FIR on market for the 130k.
4. We go into a raid together I drop keycard, he picks it up.
5. Deal done.

People have been able to do this since the beginning of EFT, and people will do it even after 1.0, flea market or no flea market.

This method will always be of higher risk than straight up buying something on the flea market with your money, but will also bypass any fees related to the market.

Physical trading has both pros and cons.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Bottom line is this is a bad idea and it's only going to hurt most to try to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. Your time is better spent elsewhere.

The update to the flea market is a step in the right direction, but with the wrong foot.

It "solves" the problem of being able to get huge reward for no risk, but it does it in the wrong way, and by introducing new problems.

"Found in raid" should never have had to become a feature, but as long as secure containers can be used to extract loot even on death, it is better than not being in the game.

FiR is not the system that is needed, but it is the best we have until SCs are rebalanced (if ever).

On 5/29/2020 at 1:06 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

Side note :: Please stop listening to the streamers and take thermals out of the game.

I agree that streamers should not be prioritized when the DEVs want feedback, and that they should be treated like every other member of the community (like you and me), however I believe thermals definitely do have a place in the game, they just need to be updated to act realistically, and cost realistic sums of money to obtain.

On 5/29/2020 at 1:18 AM, Saint_Ajora said:

IRL thermals cant see though glass

And according to the 0.12.6.xxxx patch notes, they can't in game any more either.

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Saint_Ajora
2 minutes ago, LasseNielsen said:

a lot of good things 🙂

Thank you good sir/madam. It's nice to see someone of your caliber in here. The kicker is that the FIR change will barely effect me. Will it add longevity to the game? Yes; however I think there are better ways to accomplish that. A highly dynamic loot spawn for instance, should be their #1 priority. I don't care how many hatchlings are in the raid; everyone is gonna get a chance to find the good stuff if the keycards and GPUs all have 50+ potential spawn points. I know I'm never going to get Kappa, I accepted that long ago; maybe after 1.0 and they stop wiping the game I will but we will have to wait and see.

Regarding the thermals I'd be more okay if they were INSANELY rare. I mean the only way to get one is from a scav boss and they only have like a 0.1% chance to have one. But honestly even that eventually the market will be flooded because after 1.0 there won't be mandatory wipes. So I'd say make them non-flea market able but crank up the amount the vendors will pay to reflect their rarity

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Majlo
27 minutes ago, LasseNielsen said:

Just wondering, can you get Skier to level 2, without doing the What's on the flash drive? Quest.

Yes, but not if you complete the tasks from Therapist that give you negative reputation (unless you've bought the EOD edition).

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Saint_Ajora
5 minutes ago, Majlo said:

Yeah, I can get behind this complaint.

The bitcoin farm's value is in the bitcoin themselves being sold directly to Therapist, and guns can still be put on the market, even without find in raid. I don't see how this update effects the bitcoin farm at all.

I agree, you should be able to sell and buy back and forward, but you should also be penalized by traders if selling back and forward their stock.

For now, this is better than traders selling out just to be reposted at a higher fee.

Your example is flawed, as guns can still be placed back on the market, even without FiR status.

What??? Everything crafted in the hideout and obtained through the hideout has FiR status.

I can get behind this complaint as well.

The "Collector" task is exactly that. It is for the hardcore of the hardcore players. The Kappa secure container being harder to obtain does not effect the rest of the game, and IMO, it's a good thing for such a task to be harder to get to.

Melee runners are not a problem, and has never been a problem. The problem is that they can take things out of the raid before extracting said item.

This is a flaw with how the secure containers work.

This update forces EVERYONE, to have to make it out alive if they want their items to be FiR, which is a great leap in the right direction, but still didn't solve the problem.

People have been able to do this since the beginning of EFT, and people will do it even after 1.0, flea market or no flea market.

This method will always be of higher risk than straight up buying something on the flea market with your money, but will also bypass any fees related to the market.

Physical trading has both pros and cons.

The update to the flea market is a step in the right direction, but with the wrong foot.

It "solves" the problem of being able to get huge reward for no risk, but it does it in the wrong way, and by introducing new problems.

"Found in raid" should never have had to become a feature, but as long as secure containers can be used to extract loot even on death, it is better than not being in the game.

FiR is not the system that is needed, but it is the best we have until SCs are rebalanced (if ever).

I agree that streamers should not be prioritized when the DEVs want feedback, and that they should be treated like every other member of the community (like you and me), however I believe thermals definitely do have a place in the game, they just need to be updated to act realistically, and cost realistic sums of money to obtain.

And according to the 0.12.6.xxxx patch notes, they can't in game any more either.

A lot of really well said points, thank you. We are gonna have to agree to disagree on some things but overall thank you. Mainly secure containers. They themselves are there as a ripcord. the best way to solve the loot runners "problem"  is to have a highly dynamic loot spawning pool. Give the good stuff 50+ spawn points and everyone's gonna get an equal-ish chance.

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Majlo
1 minute ago, Saint_Ajora said:

They themselves are there as a ripcord. the best way to solve the loot runners "problem"  is to have a highly dynamic loot spawning pool. Give the good stuff 50+ spawn points and everyone's gonna get an equal-ish chance.

The way I see it, the secure containers are there to secure your most valuable tools for a raid, not for securing an item you found to reduce your risk to "I don't care if I die, since I have the value up my ass".

Highly dynamic loot spawns aren't going to solve the issue of (melee-) loot runners, it will only make the raids themselves more varied (which is a good thing).

Dynamic loot will not remove tech loot from tech areas, they will still be the best to get tech loot, and same for medical loot etc.

Dynamic loot will make areas that are looted a lot have less loot, and increase loot in unlooted areas, but the loot itself will (should) still be in places where it makes sense. You're not going to find a graphics card in a wooden tool shed, and you're not going to find a LEDX in a fishing boat.

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LasseNielsen

I would really wish they added a lot more AI scavs to the maps. Like a lot more, and make them spawn with loot, so you want to engage them. Making you bring better gear. Better geared scavs could spawn with good loot items in the later stages of the raid.

Did a shoreline run, from road to customs, down by construction, pass gas station, looting the pier and extracting at the boat. Took about 25 min. I only meet 1 scav at pier.

There should be groups of scavs walking the roads on patrol, all over the map. You almost have to be lucky to find a scav, that another players haven't killed yet.

And made it possible for scavs to shot other scavs. Right now, any gun shot anywhere on the map, and you know there is a player there.
Would make for more interesting gameplay, if players didn't know what situation they would rush into when hearing gunfire.

Might be a player killing a scav, or might be 3 raiders killing a scav, that got to close.


Anyways, about the secure container, we'll see how difficult it is going to be. Last wipe, i had real problems finding the last CPU i needed for a quest. 
If loot spawns aren't any better then before, doing found in raid quests, without the SC working as before, it is going to be a real pain in the butt to find those very specific items.

And if you only have a standard account, good luck managing your stash, if you want to save all the stuff you need for quests and hideout upgrades.

Maybe having dealer barter items, so you could as an example, trade 4 DVD' for a CPU, with the found in raid tag.

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DeCryte

I agree, the flea market being FiR only is really killing the game for me

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