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Hartwell-527

Nikita will you PLZ make the old FIR system back????

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Hartwell-527
Posted (edited)

First of all, this change is really bad. Because:

1. Hatchlings are still making money by picking up valuable items and sold them to traders.

2. Real money traders can still sell items via other ways, like social media groups.

3. There will be even more hackers. Because the new FIR system, find in raid quests are becoming increasingly difficult for normal players, resulting them to pay hackers help them finding these quest items (not saying everyone would do that, just know what Chinese hackers would do.)

4. This game is becoming even more time consuming for average players. Some quest items are already rare, while they spawned, we need to taken them back alive. However, some of them are spawned in very dangerous areas like graphics cards in tech light.

In the end, I've already stopped playing the game and hope Nikita would fix this stupid system.

Edited by Hartwell-527
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scoobydoozy

Agree 110%

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Krymz_
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hartwell-527 said:

just know what Chinese hackers would do.)

you racist bro? or are you a chinese hacker?

Edited by Krymz_

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sYs

I'm actually suprised how cheat stuff is now on flee market ;) when we didnt have fir stuff was way more expensive. 

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Hartwell-527
3 hours ago, Krymz_ said:

you racist bro? or are you a chinese hacker?

我是中国人...比心上开挂的陪玩一抓一大把好⑧

I'm a Chinese, and I've seen lots of these.

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Hartwell-527
3 hours ago, Krymz_ said:

you racist bro? or are you a chinese hacker?

BTW, most of these hackers (at least Chinese hackers) are profit driven. When Nikita make the FIR change, it become another opportunity for hackers to make a money.

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Krymz_

but what about italian hackers though

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Kral
On 6/2/2020 at 3:16 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

BTW, most of these hackers (at least Chinese hackers) are profit driven. When Nikita make the FIR change, it become another opportunity for hackers to make a money.

The new system makes money less relevant, as you can't just hit rank 5 and immediately start buying end-game gear from the flea market at a marginal mark up. Players will need to make the effort to unlock trader levels, and it's difficult to unlock end-game gear without accidentally becoming good enough at the game to make money without needing to buy it.

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Niewiarygodny
On 6/2/2020 at 12:49 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

1. Hatchlings are still making money by picking up valuable items and sold them to traders.

Before - Graphic card sold on market - 200k
Now - Graphic card sold on NPC - 45k
Ledx - 1kk+
Now lex - 400k to NPC?

Sure, they can still do this, but it did reduce amount of them (from my experience) they reduced amount of money they could make by such actions.
U know what will stop or reduce hatchling even more? Blocking SC during raid, u don't wanna see such change casue it's gonna be much harder than now (i mean i wanna see such change :))

On 6/2/2020 at 12:49 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

2. Real money traders can still sell items via other ways, like social media groups

They always could do that and did that before Flea market appeared.

On 6/2/2020 at 12:49 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

3. There will be even more hackers. Because the new FIR system, find in raid quests are becoming increasingly difficult for normal players, resulting them to pay hackers help them finding these quest items (not saying everyone would do that, just know what Chinese hackers would do.)

Thats first time i hear such argument that someone will pay hacker to find specific item on map and bring it to me :D. 
 

On 6/2/2020 at 12:49 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

4. This game is becoming even more time consuming for average players. Some quest items are already rare, while they spawned, we need to taken them back alive. However, some of them are spawned in very dangerous areas like graphics cards in tech light.

Yes i agree that some quest items are harder to find than others, but they are changing such things, they are adding crafting for such items etc. 

On 6/2/2020 at 12:49 AM, Hartwell-527 said:

In the end, I've already stopped playing the game and hope Nikita would fix this stupid system.

Bye, have a great time, i hope that Nikita will add even more such mechanics, like blocking SC during raid (so we can only use items from inside) etc.
EFT was not suppose to be for everyone, EFT was not suppose to be easy, but then ppl like you started playing EFT without reading or checking how EFT gonna look like, if it's game designed for you and they wanna change BSG vision for EFT. 

I am so glad that BSG does not really listen to such ppl.

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kenc325279

Those who always talk about the penalty of dead is getting nothings or what the game is all about hardcore, STFU pls. Don't REASONALIZE all the changes to the hardcore feature of this game! You want hardcore huh? Then wipe your character after every death cause you only have one life. You want reality huh? Then you should not still holding guns or 1000% recoil should be added after breaking your arm . Why you still standing after breaking legs? you should only crawling with your hands instead. Hardcore enough huh?And those who ask others to quit the game if they do not accept the new machines, F off pls. If you act as a slave in reality, accepting all changes unconditionally, yeah then I understand why you have such mindset. In fact, the new FiR system really annoying players finishing their quests, lengthen the quests time unreasonably as well as the increase dependence on luck factor. Therefore, ammendment is needed. Lastly, those responding others to quit when someone is raising a question, I wish you have a nice day acting as a social slave in reality. 

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CaptainHero
vor 26 Minuten schrieb kenc325279:

You want hardcore huh? Then wipe your character after every death cause you only have one life. You want reality huh? Then you should not still holding guns or 1000% recoil should be added after breaking your arm . Why you still standing after breaking legs? you should only crawling with your hands instead. Hardcore enough huh?And those who ask others to quit the game if they do not accept the new machines, F off pls.

Boooom. He got you. 

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mafiahalo93

i agree 100% change the FiR system and flea market back to how it was back in 12.5 where it was much better. i already had multiple friends quit this game and im on the verge of quitting too because of the FiR system and would not recommend this game to anyone because it not fun anymore 

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Musashii89

Yeah new patch changes are garbage. This will be my last season of tarkov and I am only here because its the first wipe ive played.

Its obvious that the devs have bought in to the current 'early beta forever buggy' model. Balance changes werent needed as much as performance and stability tweaks.

Unfortunately there are so many valiant fanbois throwing money at these retards and defending their actions that I fear this game is a lost cause.

Another game with so much potential, lost.

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RACWAR

Quest wise, I agree that the FIR mechanic makes no sense. I found the flash-drive what does it matter to Skier if there's a little check-mark on it or not, I think the FIR mechanic for quests needs to go.

But Flea Market wise I think it is a good change, the game economy definitely feels a lot better and more realistic that way.

I also like that the FIR mechanic puts more emphasis on actually escaping, actually playing the game it is meant to be, complete the game loop of, getting in, finding loot, extracting with the loot, that's how it should be. I still think that changing the secure container to where you cannot put anything in it during a raid would be the best way to achieve this.

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Niewiarygodny
7 hours ago, RACWAR said:

I think the FIR mechanic for quests needs to go.

I totally get that point, i partially agree with it, but there is another problem.
If they remove "FiR status" from quests then ppl will simply buy those items from flea market. So instead exploring game, checking where  spawn what, they will just run to loot areas, just to earn as much and extract. I dont like such concept.

But as i siad i do agree, that each quest with which ppl struggle i.e.
Find Bronze lions (quite rare) Flash drives (obviously, however now i find them quite often), Graphic cards (i am lvl 37, found 1 graphic card as loose lot, 0 graphic card in over 100 pc) etc.

Dunno how, maybe ask for less items? Maybe increase spawn/add static spawns of such items, or (here i am biggest fan of such thing) add crafting options for those, even if such thing will craft, lets say, 40h i would be fine with it.

Or add another option to traders that "they" will craft specific item for you, something as it work in hideout but from NPC, after reaching another lvl of loyality u can ask them to craft something (ofc it takes time) and it has "FiR" status.
I think such thing would be doable, would make sense.

And whats your opinion on such thing? I mean having ablity to craft items by NPC, would make sense?

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RACWAR
15 hours ago, Niewiarygodny said:

Dunno how

I think it's fairly simple, all they need to do is to "flag" any item that has been bought from traders or flea market with an indicator that this item has been bought, and then simply disallow bought items for handover to quests. So people will still have to find the item, but even if they die with it, they can still turn it in for the quest.

So basically:

Found in raid = free to sell on flee market

Bought from Trader/flee = disallowed from quests

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skyflashde

Or they could just get rid of all those totally stupid quests that are only there because of intense developer lazyness and create REAL quests instead. There is no reason to even have quests like "bring 10 cigarette packages and a golden zippo" or "shoot 20 scavs into the left arm when they are having a crap", quests like that only exist to save development time.

Every quest in the game should either be something like:

- Bring me this ONE item from THIS place

- Bring THIS ONE item to THIS place

- Go to THIS place, start an event and defend the area for X minutes while Y happens

- Kill the Scav Boss X ONE TIME

- Explore area X and find item/place Y

- Go to place X and rescue hostages / kidnap person Y and get them out

- Go talk to person X and bring information / item Y

- Find person X on map Y

- Attack area X, kill the small army there and secure the area in Y minutes

Or in short, there shouldnt be ANY REASON to use the fleamarket or the secure container to buy or store quest items.

Its just very bad design, and they need to fix that, not cause more problems.

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PyroYoda
Posted (edited)

I have completed the Sanitry Standard Quest, pt 1. Yes, it was a challenge. I used to not like the new FIR system. However, now I realise is that it forces you to protect yourself and extract safely. Before, I use to yolo with expensive items in my SC and die with them. Also you are more limted to sell things on the FM. I am still 50/50 on the FIR system though. 

Edited by PyroYoda
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Niewiarygodny
8 minutes ago, RACWAR said:

So people will still have to find the item, but even if they die with it, they can still turn it in for the quest.

Correct me if i missunderstood. 
So basicly ppl will run with hachet to specific spot, check loot (quest item) and DC/die to scav cause now they have 1 more item to specific quest? (i mean, they will be able to do that, if they will be able to do that, they will do that, thats how ppl react and behave)

Whats more we would have 3 statuses now.
1. No status (so item bought from flea market)
2. Found In Raid (so it can be both be sold on flea market and to the quest)
3. Only for quest (which would mean that we died with such item in our Gamma)

Tbh it would create too much confusion (at least on begining), just look how many ppl ask why they can't use flashdrives for quest, they stored it in their gamma and died, so why they can't? Now add 1 more status :D. So ppl will ask, why they can't sell but can use for quest. Ofc after a while they would learn, just imagine confusion once they add it.

No Ty, do you want to end quest, finish raid, add something diffrent, as crafting for such items, or diffrent thing. No more going with hachet, cause u need those 3 graphic cards, so you will just run straight to Techlight and check there, if nothing spawn - DC and repeat.
 

6 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

Or they could just get rid of all those totally stupid quests

Or ppl could read that all those quest will be opcional (side quests) and there will be diffrent main quest.

7 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

quests like that only exist to save development time.

Dunno if it's me, but such quest are far more innovative than quests you mentioned.
You literally mentioned most common quests in video games, so where is that "saved" development time?

If they would add quests which u mentioned, and only such quests, then i would agree, but they tried create something diffrent for their side quests, where is lazyness if they created something new/diffrent?

7 minutes ago, PyroYoda said:

However, now I realise is that it forces you to protect yourself and extract safely

Bravo, finally someone gets it :D. 
Whats more, some ppl complain that since they are bad at game, they can't earn much money now (cause they storage items in SC and die).
The thing is that now u should use your SC diffrently than before.
Before -> just storage most valuable item on flea market or quest item in your SC.
Now -> Keep most valuable item (npc price) or item with highest price which u can use for hideout upgrade.
Also if can use specific item for crafting -> Place it in your SC. (since you can use it for crafting and sell produced goodies on flea market with profit).
Like it's better to keep a power Cord than 2 x wires :D.

Once ppl realise that, and stop placing "most valuable items based flea market price in their gamma" (which become worth almsot nothing once they die, so whats the point of keepin them in their SC?) they will at least not complain about lack of money :p. 

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skyflashde
vor 35 Minuten schrieb Niewiarygodny:

if they would add quests which u mentioned, and only such quests, then i would agree, but they tried create something diffrent for their side quests, where is lazyness if they created something new/diffrent?

I dont understand what you are saying.

Are you saying "collect 100 of this item and 200 of this item" quests are "new" and "different"?

Quests like that already existed in like the first MMO ever... and there is just ONE reason to have quests like that:

To stall the player.

Quests like that are known as "grind" quests, they enable the developer to create content that costs the player enormous amounts of game time without actually having to create content (which costs money).

So if you have grind quests in your game like "kill 10 Orcs and 15 Goblins" that means you are either too lazy (just stall them with crap and sell skins until the game dies), too cheap (we just dont have the money to actually create content) or too incompetent (uh a complicated event system for questing? dynamic quest content? sounds too hard to program) to create REAL quests.

All of which have one thing in common: The devs dont want to spend money to create nicer content and opt for the crap content to save money.

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Yeavo
Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2020 at 10:57 PM, Krymz_ said:

but what about italian hackers though

Different beast generally speaking. Due to high living standards and wellfare systems you don't see many professional hackers coming from the western countries, since they'd be earning pocket money. No! Western hackers hack to compensate their micro penises.

2. world and 3. world hackers hack to make RM profits. There was a reason why most videogame farmers come from countries like, but not exclusively, Peoples Republic of China.

Hack creators come from all over the world and can make a decent amount of money by doing so even by western standards.

Edited by Yeavo

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Niewiarygodny
1 hour ago, skyflashde said:

Every quest in the game should either be something like:

- Bring me this ONE item from THIS place

- Bring THIS ONE item to THIS place

- Go to THIS place, start an event and defend the area for X minutes while Y happens

- Kill the Scav Boss X ONE TIME

- Explore area X and find item/place Y

- Go to place X and rescue hostages / kidnap person Y and get them out

- Go talk to person X and bring information / item Y

- Find person X on map Y

- Attack area X, kill the small army there and secure the area in Y minutes

2 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

Are you saying "collect 100 of this item and 200 of this item" quests are "new" and "different"?

Are you saying taht quests u mentioned above are "new" and "diffrent"?
They aren't, they are most common in games. If EFT quests would look only as your exmaples then ye, EFT develoeprs would be lazy.

But yet again, those quests will be SIDE quests. There will be diffrent main quests. Whats more even those side quests will change.

But sure, lets play your game. Can you think about over 170 quests, where each quests i not the same and it's not boring when u do them x time? 

Cause damn it would be fun to have mission as:
"Find person x on map y" 5 times
"GO talk to person x and bring infromation" 6 times
ETC.

The thing is, it's impossible to make so many quests in a Mmorgp fps looter (or how to describe eft) and have all of them unique and fun to do.
 

18 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

All of which have one thing in common: The devs dont want to spend money to create nicer content and opt for the crap content to save money.

so you prefer to have most common quests in a fps looter, ok. Make no sense.
 

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skyflashde
Gerade eben schrieb Niewiarygodny:

Are you saying taht quests u mentioned above are "new" and "diffrent"?
They aren't

I did not write up quests. I wrote up blueprints of quests.

Within those categories you can create great quests, that are not totally boring like that poo that BSG came up with, and also not completely RNG like the collect quests we have in Tarkov.

If I wrote up quests, then yes, they would be "new" and "different".

The big difference between my quests and BSG quests would be that my quests actually tie in with the game design to create emerging gameplay. That means that quests need to be dynamic and not rely on RNG.

The reason I say lazyness is because with a quest like "collect 10 morphines" for example you arent actually designing a gameplay experience, you are just carelessly throwing poo on a wall and see what falls down. For example lets take two edge cases:

- Player 1 finds a labs card, goes into labs, finds 10 morphines in one room and exits. Takes him 12 mins time to do the quest.

- Player 2 does 40 raids. Goes to shoreline, woods, customs, dies 20 times. Finds 5 morphines, dies to an exit camper. Makes 5 million rubels on the way, spends 4 weeks, is now level 30 but still does not have the quest complete and cant do any follow on quests.

So is that a good quest?

No, its complete trash.

There is no plan in the design, no time estimate for completion, no way to even guess quest progression because its complete RNG. You can have players that never get to the follow-on quests because they are just unlucky.

So quests like that just spell L.A.Z.Y.N.E.S.S. all over. Its what you do if you dont give a duck about the user experience of your game.

If you design a good quest, then you KNOW how long it will take to complete, you KNOW what kind of skill is needed to complete it and you roughly KNOW at which level the quest is given and completed by the player.

There also is a huge difference between quests that require SKILL to complete and quests that require LUCK to complete. Many of the Tarkov quests are the latter.

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Niewiarygodny
1 minute ago, skyflashde said:

So is that a good quest?

No, its complete trash.

I see what you mean, but then can u create a quest which does not rely on RNG in a MMORPG FPS LOOTER?
No.
Why? Because there is always RNG factor which is:
- Player skill
- Enemy skill
- who will spawn where, how many groups etc.

"Go find x person" ok, now x ppl will camp near that person.
""kill scav boss once" ok, i will find and kill 5 bosses in a row, even if their % to spawn is around 25-38%, other won't see boss in 10 raids, then he will die to him.
I will go and "take this item to this place" and i wont die, then other person will die 20 times.

Sure, it's DIffrent "RNG" factor, it's not "as" based on RNG as some of current quests (which require FiR status) i agree here, but it's not possible to create quests which will be even for everyone.
I have SR at 54 % i belive, maybe few % higher/lower, other ppl have it on 9% or even lower, quest won't be even for both of us.

Thats why i try to see solutions instead re-making all SIDE QUESTS casue again, those quests will be SIDE QUESTS, main quest will be diffrent.

Like, ppl mostly (at least from what i read, thats why i am making a poll right now to get some more numbers and opinions about FiR status) have problems because:
- They do not earn as much as they did before (casue they die and they cant sell items which they storage in their SC for good money on flea)
- They have problems with SPECIFC items (which require FiR status)

For first point answer is simple:
1. Change the way you place items in your SC, stop placing items which u can sell only on flea, place only items which can be used in hideout/for craft/are expansive if you sell them to NPC
2. Just deal with it that u will earn slightly less if you die, but u will earn more if you survive, since everything got value, 10round vepr hunter magazines for 18k, start as scav, spawn with vepr hunter -> almost 100k :D

But for second... In my opinion they should add more crafting options in hideout. 
Like i was lvl 36, found 0 graphic cards in over 150 PC, also 0 in techlight and other shops/rooms, now i am lvl 39 and i have 2 graphic cards.

For me it would make sense if we would be able to craft them or ask "NPC" to craft them for us, ofc it would take time and money, but we would be able to get them in a diffrent way than looting, and such items would have FiR status.

Hopefully u get what i mean, i partially agree with you as you can see, but i try to find solution which may work.
 

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wfl

There is a balance between hardcore and arcade. However the new fir system falls between, is just a matter of taste. There is no point in convincing the other over a difference of taste. 
 

i think too many people are focussed on making money in this game instead of gearing up and play it. The new fir mechanic is for example ment to stop people go in naked and run for the flash drive spawn on woods and sell it for a lot on the flee marked and repeat. I think its a good thing. 

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