Jump to content
T10Titan

Found In raid Issue

Recommended Posts

T10Titan

So I go to sell items on the flea market and the items I get from a "  RAID  " it will say its not found in raid? Any reasons for this? 

The item wasn't from picked up from a pmc it was in a container that no on reached yet so no one planted it. And the picture shows the bolts I got in the same raid as the golden skull are found in raid items.

fa875b9ebc36129624acbf4a7fb9d01d.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kalther

Couple of the updates for the wipe. One probably applies to you. If not then it's bugged. 

When combining stacks of items found in raid with items not found in raid, all items will receive not found in raid status.

Items that are placed in a secured container get the status " found in raid” only when you exfil the location with the status “Survived” (“Ran through” is not counted).

When you exit with the status "run through” or death, all items in your inventory that you brought out lose the "found in the raid” status

If you enter a raid with items that have the "found in raid” status, the items lose this status.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe

I hate that secure container items lose the found in raid status if you die. Seems like it was probably added to deter hatchlings, so they can't run to a good spawn, grab and box an item, and then suicide and rinse and repeat, and hatchlings should be dealt with to an extent. But this is just needlessly punishing everyone else at the same time. For example, I spent half an hour in a shoreline raid the other day and put a circuitboard in my box for the quest (Quest required 2 or 3 of them found in raid). I die at the very end before I could extract, so I get the cb out, but it loses found in raid status. I basically just discard the item at this point and go back in for another. Obviously cb's are pretty common, but there are infinite more examples like this where normal players are pointlessly punished.

Why is this necessary? I wasn't trying to suicide or loot farm, just a basic quest item that isn't very valuable. Why should I be punished for this? It just makes no sense to me.

If the change was indeed to deter hatchlings, why not make it so suiciding makes the boxed items lose the found in raid status or something else? Some basic intelligence could be added to it to make it still deter hatchlings while leaving everyone else alone.

Last thing - since everyone loves to pretend this game is all about realism - if we're talking realism then those items were literally found in a raid whether you die or not, so taking the status away from them is inherently unrealistic :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
4 minutes ago, Straafe said:

I hate that secure container items lose the found in raid status if you die. Seems like it was probably added to deter hatchlings, so they can't run to a good spawn, grab and box an item, and then suicide and rinse and repeat, and hatchlings should be dealt with to an extent. But this is just needlessly punishing everyone else at the same time. For example, I spent half an hour in a shoreline raid the other day and put a circuitboard in my box for the quest (Quest required 2 or 3 of them found in raid). I die at the very end before I could extract, so I get the cb out, but it loses found in raid status. I basically just discard the item at this point and go back in for another. Obviously cb's are pretty common, but there are infinite more examples like this where normal players are pointlessly punished.

Why is this necessary? I wasn't trying to suicide or loot farm, just a basic quest item that isn't very valuable. Why should I be punished for this? It just makes no sense to me.

If the change was indeed to deter hatchlings, why not make it so suiciding makes the boxed items lose the found in raid status or something else? Some basic intelligence could be added to it to make it still deter hatchlings while leaving everyone else alone.

Last thing - since everyone loves to pretend this game is all about realism - if we're talking realism then those items were literally found in a raid whether you die or not, so taking the status away from them is inherently unrealistic :P.

You answered your own question in your second line - to deter hatchlings and others who are abusing the system to sell items for real money.  At least you can still use items that you put in your secure stash to upgrade your base, so it's not a total loss in some cases.  It is not a perfect system, but I literally haven't seen one hatchling since this patch released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, traumacode said:

You answered your own question in your second line

Yea, but like I also said  in second paragraph from the bottom, there are clear ways to implement this change that would have the same exact effect on deterring hatchlings while not effecting normal players at all. Why not do something like that? Or just continue making loot spawn more randomly and in more locations (which was done to an extent in 12.6), which in and of itself would deter hatchlings and then we might not even need awkward FIR mechanics.

Edited by Straafe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sYs

The FIR status is a step in right direction though wise but implementation of idea is wrong.

 

Should have just made it that you can't put stuff into your secure container while in raid and problem would be solved.

FIR system ads UNECESARY complexity to the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kalther
36 minutes ago, traumacode said:

  It is not a perfect system, but I literally haven't seen one hatchling since this patch released.

I have come across a bunch, if it's not a hatchling it's just a guy with a pistol. This change just made it even harder for the people that play it the normal way. It's barely making a dent on the "hatchling problem" everyone imagines. 

I posted this in another board,  I played  last wipe, the hatchet runners weren't that bad and this doesn't fix the problem at all. It's not even remotely close to a good counter. If there is any hatchet/pistol runners they are still getting the items, all this does is ruin the experience for the less experienced in an attempt to please the players whining because somebody got the good spawn. Doesn't matter if someone was geared or not, you got the tech room, that gcard goes right into your SC so what is this feature solving?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
schubbey
vor 15 Minuten schrieb sYs:

can't put stuff into your secure container while in raid and problem would be solved.

exactly that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kalther

Might as well just get rid of it with that logic. What are you going to save with it, some meds/bullets? Quest items too I guess?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
2 hours ago, Kalther said:

I have come across a bunch, if it's not a hatchling it's just a guy with a pistol. This change just made it even harder for the people that play it the normal way. It's barely making a dent on the "hatchling problem" everyone imagines. 

I posted this in another board,  I played  last wipe, the hatchet runners weren't that bad and this doesn't fix the problem at all. It's not even remotely close to a good counter. If there is any hatchet/pistol runners they are still getting the items, all this does is ruin the experience for the less experienced in an attempt to please the players whining because somebody got the good spawn. Doesn't matter if someone was geared or not, you got the tech room, that gcard goes right into your SC so what is this feature solving?

Before this patch, your example would result in a hatchet runner dying in raid 99/100 times, still being able to sell the high priority item (IE graphic card, ledx, etc) on the flea market, and then sell the in-game roubles for real money.

 

Now, that same hatchet runner will get bombarded with scavs, if he/she lives through that, still has to get the high priority item, and now live to make it out of the raid in order to sell the high priority item on the flea market.  Otherwise, they die with that item and sell it for a fraction of the price to the NPC trader. 

 

In my opinion, this is a genius way to combat people abusing mechanics to make roubles with the intent of getting rea llife money or abusing the economy to try and buy the best gear off the flea.  Can they still do it?  I am sure, but it is a lot harder than before.

Your opinion about hatchet runners last patch is exactly that.  It was (and to an extend continues to be) a big problem whether it personally effected you or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe
10 minutes ago, traumacode said:

In my opinion, this is a genius way to combat people abusing mechanics to make roubles

I disagree. There are ways to deter hatchling "loot and die" or "loot and scoot" behavior just as effectively without affecting other players at all. This is a lazy implementation that punishes normal players for no reason to accomplish the goal - that's bad. Just because this does deter hatchlings does not inherently mean it is good, and certainly not genius.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
3 minutes ago, Straafe said:

I disagree. There are ways to deter hatchling "loot and die" or "loot and scoot" behavior just as effectively without affecting other players at all. This is a lazy implementation that punishes normal players for no reason to accomplish the goal - that's bad. Just because this does deter hatchlings does not inherently mean it is good, and certainly not genius.

We can agree to disagree.  I am sorry you are not having a good experience as a result of these implementations - but as someone who put in literally 100s of hours into this game since it originally came out, this is an overall improvement. 

 

I do agree it was not a perfect implementation, but you need to come up with something better than further randomizing loot locations (which is just a minor inconvenience to everyone at the end of the day) if you want to convince me it's better than what has been done already.  Remember that the reason people are being punished is due to dishonest players, not the developers purposefully trying to make your life miserable.

 

Perhaps the best answer is simply to get rid of the secure container all together - I personally would be okay with that.  This way if you die, all loot is fair game to other players.  Surviving is rewarded with the loot you earned.  I don't think many would agree with this style of play, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe
1 minute ago, traumacode said:

but you need to come up with something better than further randomizing loot locations

Randomizing loot locations is actually a positive change overall even disregarding hatchlings entirely because it promotes exploration, which is a good thing (instead of there being a few hot areas and a bunch of dead areas, now it's more rewarding because an exciting encounter can happen anywhere, and likewise you could get a really rare drop in an obscure location which would be rewarding, and you could find good loot late into a raid instead of having to have a good spawn near one of the good spots to have a chance at it). There are also plenty of ways to detect if someone is most likely intentionally killing themselves or just looting and scooting, and then in those situations maybe the found in raid status could be removed from secured items. Right now we get a blanket wipe of that FIR status if you die for any reason, which is just lazy and silly. This affects normal players negatively more than it deters hatchlings.

As far as removing the secure container entirely, I would personally be against that, but maybe you could make it so it is always secure but you can only bring items in, and can't put items into it in raid. I'm not sure if I feel great about that either, but it would solve the problem and still give you a way to bring in keys and meds safely. I don't think drastic changes like either of those should be necessary though to solve this problem.

I still think that we wouldn't need this new mechanic at all if loot was just randomized more, so there were a few clear spots hatchlings could run to to consistently get something good. That would do a lot of good things and remove the need for awkward mechanics that annoy players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
1 hour ago, Straafe said:

Randomizing loot locations is actually a positive change overall even disregarding hatchlings entirely because it promotes exploration, which is a good thing (instead of there being a few hot areas and a bunch of dead areas, now it's more rewarding because an exciting encounter can happen anywhere, and likewise you could get a really rare drop in an obscure location which would be rewarding, and you could find good loot late into a raid instead of having to have a good spawn near one of the good spots to have a chance at it). There are also plenty of ways to detect if someone is most likely intentionally killing themselves or just looting and scooting, and then in those situations maybe the found in raid status could be removed from secured items. Right now we get a blanket wipe of that FIR status if you die for any reason, which is just lazy and silly. This affects normal players negatively more than it deters hatchlings.

As far as removing the secure container entirely, I would personally be against that, but maybe you could make it so it is always secure but you can only bring items in, and can't put items into it in raid. I'm not sure if I feel great about that either, but it would solve the problem and still give you a way to bring in keys and meds safely. I don't think drastic changes like either of those should be necessary though to solve this problem.

I still think that we wouldn't need this new mechanic at all if loot was just randomized more, so there were a few clear spots hatchlings could run to to consistently get something good. That would do a lot of good things and remove the need for awkward mechanics that annoy players.

I don't disagree with you that it will encourage some more interesting scenarios on maps, but there's already implementations in the game that allow you the opportunity to explore "dead" regions of the map and have the opportunity to high value items - these are the secret caches.  Yes the locations are fixed (I think a nice idea would be taking your concept and randomizing these secret cache locations to promote even more exploration rather than have them in a fixed location every time).  But what you're describing already exists in the game.  Most people either don't know about caches or don't see value in going after them but in reality this is a gold mine for making money and getting quest items as well as ammo.

The complete flip side to your argument (and I am playing devil's advocate here) is that allowing more randomized loot opportunity for the best items in the game minimizes the incentive for players to get specific keys which are purposely located in hot PvP zones and thus contain the ability to get some of the best loot in the game.  This is a PvP game in the end and certain zones on the map are designed specifically to draw in players with the idea of high risk/high reward.  Perhaps a compromise is that certain tiered items can spawn outside of these zones if players want to explore with less chance of getting killed in a hot zone, but again this really already exists through the cache system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe
2 minutes ago, traumacode said:

but there's already implementations in the game that allow you the opportunity to explore "dead" regions of the map and have the opportunity to high value items - these are the secret caches.

Sure, but stashes are still in set locations. Also, I am not saying to remove ALL set loot spawns like a keycard or whatnot, there can still be those along with more randomization, the two are not mutually exclusive. They are moving in the right direction in this patch except for the FIR removal when you die (in my opinion). I think if they upped randomization a bit more and rolled back the FIR change, they might find a sweet spot.

I guess all things considered, I just hate feeling like I am being punished for no reason as part of a change meant to affect hatchlings, it just seems silly and pointless to me. Consider a player who finds a flash drive (rare items that need to be found in raid for a quest), who takes his time carefully moving through the map only to be killed 40 minutes later by an extract camper. Why punish him and make his flash drive useless for the quest? Did the data on it get magically erased so Skier doesn't what it anymore? If we're talking realism, than it was literally found in a raid regardless of whether or not he died, so marking it as otherwise is actually unrealistic. I just want to hear 1 single GOOD reason why punishing players in this situation is a good change. It just plain isn't. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RainmakerM4

Found in raid is awesome. It feels good knowing nobody can flip assets on flea market along with hatchet man not hatcheting. The only problem is these suckers who think making money is hard are paying irl money for ingame currency and thus driving cheaters to cheat. The community needs to STOP buying ingame currency and learn to loot because its too easy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
2 hours ago, Straafe said:

Sure, but stashes are still in set locations. Also, I am not saying to remove ALL set loot spawns like a keycard or whatnot, there can still be those along with more randomization, the two are not mutually exclusive. They are moving in the right direction in this patch except for the FIR removal when you die (in my opinion). I think if they upped randomization a bit more and rolled back the FIR change, they might find a sweet spot.

I guess all things considered, I just hate feeling like I am being punished for no reason as part of a change meant to affect hatchlings, it just seems silly and pointless to me. Consider a player who finds a flash drive (rare items that need to be found in raid for a quest), who takes his time carefully moving through the map only to be killed 40 minutes later by an extract camper. Why punish him and make his flash drive useless for the quest? Did the data on it get magically erased so Skier doesn't what it anymore? If we're talking realism, than it was literally found in a raid regardless of whether or not he died, so marking it as otherwise is actually unrealistic. I just want to hear 1 single GOOD reason why punishing players in this situation is a good change. It just plain isn't. 

We agree on this point - I just don't know the solution yet to make everyone satisfied. 

 

People justify things like exit camping as a viable playstyle (not something I agree with) but I accepted that this is "part of the game" as it stands.  Ultimately, as I've gone through my 3rd wipe now, it has not ruined my journey to get quests done, enjoy the game most of the time, and honestly I have learned to look out for exit campers and can mostly kill them instead of vice versa.  But you're right, there should be a happy medium so as not to punish the honest player that puts in the time versus the ones clearly exploiting/abusing the game rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Straafe
2 hours ago, RainmakerM4 said:

It feels good knowing nobody can flip assets on flea market

There are still flea market bots/fence bots
 

2 hours ago, RainmakerM4 said:

along with hatchet man not hatcheting.

There are still plenty of hatchlings

Real money trading is a cancer on this game though. Sadly, the FIR removal on death change only is driving more players to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheSuperGoons

i think found in raid shouldnt apply to armor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoTheN

i did a scav run and found some bodys.... extracted at 10min mark status was survided... all the loot i got from the dead bodys i found even gear was NOT found in raid and they cost at least 300k in the flea market.... how do i make money????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Knoxudg

Ive been trying to get morphine for the therapist quest for 4 days now. But im not a twitchstreamer with the ability to play 700h / day. So up untill this change I could atleast progress, a small step at a time. Now im just dying to the "hardcore" playerbase thats not aorund lvl 10 where I am, and they got better guns/ammo/armor and skills. If rmt and the fleamarket is problem, well ducking remove that then. Dont punish us casuals that dont have the time/skills to "git gud". Or simply add a new tag for the questitems, as this is the most stupid poo ive ever seen in a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scalleywag
Posted (edited)

I don't mind the current FIR system for Misc. Items. However, can we please remove it from weapons, attachments, and ammo??? Its not effecting the hatchling runs as they dont target these specific items (maybe ammo). Its making it a nightmare to sell stuff on the market that you take off of other dead PMCs. Which is honestly how I made most of my money before the last wipe; stripping weapons and selling them on the market.  

Edited by Scalleywag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2