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Game unbalanced for new players?


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Jordick

Before anything I'm not saying that EFT is a bad game nor am I lashing out to devs. I wouldn't be playing the game if I disliked it.

I started playing the about half a year ago when the game had its previous wipe, but thanks to real life issues and how busy I was I couldn't play it as much as I would have wanted to. And I couldn't get into it after majority of players had reached higher levels and better equipment so I was left behind.

I started playing again after the recent wipe with the hope that this time around I would be on the same standing ground with everyone else, but again due to real life issues I couldn't play as much as I wanted to so I was left behind again. Which brings me to my question.

Do you guys feel that the game is unbalanced for us new players, because we don't have access to good armor nor AP rounds?

I make a lot of mistakes, I admit that, but there are times when I should be the clear winner in 1on1 fights but for some reason most of the times I end up dead. Not because I miss my shots, but because the enemy is armored like a tank and my full mag of 30xPS rounds only tickle him. All he has to do is turn around and 2-3 shot me and I have to go back to raiding as Scav in order to cover those losses.

The Flea Market allows new players to get AP rounds (if they can afford them), but thanks to that high level requirement it takes forever to get there due to low survival rate.

So yeah, from my perspective the game is unbalanced for us new players, because we don't stand a chance due to how little we can do against those who are fully armored.

I cannot be the only one who feels like this, right?

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You are sorely mistaken there. This is like saying that in sports, part of the learning curve is going on the tatami on your first day against a black-belt that is a good 30 pounds heavier than you. Y

I get that. But those veterans have been where you are right now. This isn't a 100m sprint game. People who come into EFT with the mindset that they can jump into a raid and do whatever Pestily/Deadly

Before anything I'm not saying that EFT is a bad game nor am I lashing out to devs. I wouldn't be playing the game if I disliked it. I started playing the about half a year ago when the game had

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RACWAR

Seen plenty of people bring this up, but I think this is a pretty pointless argument, considering that the armor system will get reworked completely when they add standalone armor plates. So this is very much a waste of time to talk about, considering that the game will probably play completely differently in that regard by then.

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tobiassolem

Escape From Tarkov is a game that is in development, many of the mechanics that we see currently will be changed. Most maps will not be accessible at the start of the game, loot mechanics will be changed to a more dynamic one, as well as a more dynamic market as well as more factions, enemies, et cetera. Thus the current state of the game must be seen as a game under evaluation.

Another important key is that what is regarded as "balance" to some isn't exactly what the developers are after. Some people consider the old "rock->paper->scissors"-type of gameplay balanced. Whereas I would say that this type of "balance" makes the game stale, predictable and artificial. Another type of "balance" that some players "demand" is that there ought to be some form of "gear score" involved. This would not work very well either as that form of balance would quickly make the game stale and predictible.

New players on the other hand DO currently have access to "end game" content, its just that you probably lack the knowledge of where to find them, given your lack of experience within the game. And the only way to gain that experience is to spend your time learning the game. For example where you might find enemies that carry that type of gear, and better yet how to defeat them without dying ten times out of ten. The learning curve is indeed steep, but to say "low level players" have everything against them isn't really an issue with "balance" but with inexperience.

A long-time player of EFT will have a great deal of advantage versus a new player, and to artificially try to "level" those odds doesn't make the game more balanced. It only makes it more predictible, and less challenging, and absolutely less rewarding. There indeed is an advantage in playing the game for a longer period of time. But new players come in and learn the basics within weeks. So instead it falls into the category: Somewhat difficult to learn, extremely hard to master.

 

Oh, as for the armored enemies. Head, legs, arms are usually available to shoot. But better yet, avoid engaging with enemies you are uncertain that you would be able to defeat. Better to live, grab more loot, and extract with it. No?

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Jordick
1 hour ago, tobiassolem said:

Escape From Tarkov is a game that is in development, many of the mechanics that we see currently will be changed. Most maps will not be accessible at the start of the game, loot mechanics will be changed to a more dynamic one, as well as a more dynamic market as well as more factions, enemies, et cetera. Thus the current state of the game must be seen as a game under evaluation.

Another important key is that what is regarded as "balance" to some isn't exactly what the developers are after. Some people consider the old "rock->paper->scissors"-type of gameplay balanced. Whereas I would say that this type of "balance" makes the game stale, predictable and artificial. Another type of "balance" that some players "demand" is that there ought to be some form of "gear score" involved. This would not work very well either as that form of balance would quickly make the game stale and predictible.

New players on the other hand DO currently have access to "end game" content, its just that you probably lack the knowledge of where to find them, given your lack of experience within the game. And the only way to gain that experience is to spend your time learning the game. For example where you might find enemies that carry that type of gear, and better yet how to defeat them without dying ten times out of ten. The learning curve is indeed steep, but to say "low level players" have everything against them isn't really an issue with "balance" but with inexperience.

A long-time player of EFT will have a great deal of advantage versus a new player, and to artificially try to "level" those odds doesn't make the game more balanced. It only makes it more predictible, and less challenging, and absolutely less rewarding. There indeed is an advantage in playing the game for a longer period of time. But new players come in and learn the basics within weeks. So instead it falls into the category: Somewhat difficult to learn, extremely hard to master.

 

Oh, as for the armored enemies. Head, legs, arms are usually available to shoot. But better yet, avoid engaging with enemies you are uncertain that you would be able to defeat. Better to live, grab more loot, and extract with it. No?

I get what you're saying and I'm not saying that new players should be on even grounds with the veterans.

It just gets really frustrating when you're dying over and over again due to having no protection at all against those veterans.

All you can really do is trying to be as quiet as possible, scavenge what you can and hope to god that you don't meet anyone on your way out to extraction. Usually that's not the case as veterans seem to know where the new players travel, so they're easy pickings for them as the new players can't really put up a fight. Or at least that's my experience with this game.

Maybe this is just me venting out my frustration so try not to mind my ranting, but I just wish that there was something that would make the life even slightly easier for us new players. The Flea Market and LL2 traders would help, but they're still a long way off from me as I can only get ~100 xp from each raid.

Another high risk/high reward game called Hunt Showdown had interesting mechanic where new players didn't lose their stuff from dying until certain level, though if I remember correctly it was only implemented after the game was launched. I'm not saying that EFT should have the same mechanic and I'm not sure if it even fits for this game, but it is a fun little thought experiment.

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tobiassolem
6 minutes ago, Jordick said:

It just gets really frustrating when you're dying over and over again due to having no protection at all against those veterans.

I get that. But those veterans have been where you are right now. This isn't a 100m sprint game. People who come into EFT with the mindset that they can jump into a raid and do whatever Pestily/DeadlySlob/Slushpuppy does are in for a rude awakening. It takes time and dedication to get somewhere with EFT. Most of that time is doing exactly what you are describing. Dying a lot whilst trying to avoid getting killed, but grab a few things on the way.

If you play a game like PUBG or similar, it doesn't matter if you die a round because you don't lose anything - but I get the frustration, losses actually are a lot more annoying in Tarkov - because of all the time you spent gathering that gear. This is also why its so rewarding when you're on the other end of that equation, and kill someone much more geared than you are.

Trust me, if you stick with this game - this will start happening more often.

So what's the best way of getting "there"?

1. Look up sherpas, ask for help to learn the ropes with some of the more experienced players.

2. Start playing in squads, there are multiple discord-servers out there with people willing to team up

3. When you play solo, especially as a beginner, think of EFT as fishing. You GOTTA be patient. Learn where most players are, avoid those places like the plague (more players = more likely you will die). Once you spot another player, only engage if you know you have the upper hand, and even then, think for a few more seconds: "Does he have friends?".

 

 

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Saber123316
4 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

I get that. But those veterans have been where you are right now. This isn't a 100m sprint game. People who come into EFT with the mindset that they can jump into a raid and do whatever Pestily/DeadlySlob/Slushpuppy does are in for a rude awakening. It takes time and dedication to get somewhere with EFT. Most of that time is doing exactly what you are describing. Dying a lot whilst trying to avoid getting killed, but grab a few things on the way.

If you play a game like PUBG or similar, it doesn't matter if you die a round because you don't lose anything - but I get the frustration, losses actually are a lot more annoying in Tarkov - because of all the time you spent gathering that gear. This is also why its so rewarding when you're on the other end of that equation, and kill someone much more geared than you are.

Trust me, if you stick with this game - this will start happening more often.

So what's the best way of getting "there"?

1. Look up sherpas, ask for help to learn the ropes with some of the more experienced players.

2. Start playing in squads, there are multiple discord-servers out there with people willing to team up

3. When you play solo, especially as a beginner, think of EFT as fishing. You GOTTA be patient. Learn where most players are, avoid those places like the plague (more players = more likely you will die). Once you spot another player, only engage if you know you have the upper hand, and even then, think for a few more seconds: "Does he have friends?".

 

 

The "this is not a reflection of the final product" is kind of a lame excuse. 

The current game is designed that you are forced to no life it to hit level 10 ASAP and then just farm FiR items to list for an exorbitant amount of rubles.

From there you are then expected to then save money.

From here you basically are building up the bank required to finish the hideout. Once that hideout is up and operational you can "play the game" you now have passive income you have a nest egg to afford level 5-6 armors and helmets. You can get good guns and sights. You now have a significant advantage over scavs and players scavs your only real enemy is players but even if you hug the outside of a map and move slow doing hit and run tactics your chances of surviving any encounter sky rocket. Add in the passive skill buffs you are building over the course of the wipe and once you hit level 40 you're untouchable to someone who just buys the game and comes in.

"Oh well you should be weaker to other players!"

No because it forces those players not to fight. to run, hide come in with no gear because nothing they have access to is effective 2 months into a wipe.

In fact doing early game quests to unlock traders at the 2 month mark will be impossible for solo players. The only upside is hopefully when you hit level 10 you will have access to thousands of 'effective' guns (Effective being semi auto rifles with decent armor pen and sights, iron sights on tarkov for most of the early guns are poo such as mosin / sks / vepr.) there is enough ammo that late in the game floating around that you can get most decent stuff for cheap. Level 4 armor and helmets are cheap 2 months in.

But that initial sole draining grind to flea market access means you have to play tarkov not as intended. Don't believe me watch Pestily's Raid series season 2, even him a seasoned 1000+ hour vet who is very skilled has a difficult time getting going. 

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KaelTheInvoker
2 часа назад, Jordick сказал:

I make a lot of mistakes, I admit that, but there are times when I should be the clear winner in 1on1 fights but for some reason most of the times I end up dead. Not because I miss my shots, but because the enemy is armored like a tank and my full mag of 30xPS rounds only tickle him. All he has to do is turn around and 2-3 shot me and I have to go back to raiding as Scav in order to cover those losses.

It's all because the game is terrible unrealistic. Developers are afraid of casuals, which will go away if the game becomes at least a little more complicated, so they make game absolutely arcade. That's the problem, i think.  

I hope one day dev's will keep their promises and make realistic shooter. But not now.

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Jordick
5 minutes ago, Saber123316 said:

In fact doing early game quests to unlock traders at the 2 month mark will be impossible for solo players.

This. In the last wipe I started focusing on the quests maybe at the 3-4 month mark and I couldn't get those early quests done, because other players always camped those quest locations.

I learned the meaning of suicide box in Factory map the hard way.  >_<

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tobiassolem
48 minutes ago, Saber123316 said:

The "this is not a reflection of the final product" is kind of a lame excuse. 

It's not an excuse when its true though, is it?

49 minutes ago, Saber123316 said:

The current game is designed that you are forced to no life it to hit level 10 ASAP and then just farm FiR items to list for an exorbitant amount of rubles.

"No life to hit level 10"? Level 10 is what? 50K experience? If you're terrible like me you get 3-5K experience per finished raid. So if you absolutely max the raids with 40 minutes per raid, that's 10-17 raids in total, or 680 minutes (11.3 hours) AT MOST .

DOUBLE that time for all the beginners bad luck and fluke raids, and that's roughly 20 hours to "no life". Even with a busy working schedule and playing 2 or 3 raids at max per night, that's achievable inside 1 or 2 weeks even for the working man.

 

Seems like you've painted some scenario of "how Tarkov is meant to be played" for yourself, where you can just play it anyway you want it. If your goal is to be "the best" well then of course you have to spend more time than other players. But if your goal is to PvP, grab some loot here and there, and challenge yourself - then what everyone else is doing doesn't really matter.

 

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This game punishes new players with little to no explanations, forcing players to watch hours upon hours of youtube creator tutorials that may or may not be outdated, just with the hopes of understanding the game. While the devs try to hide under the "ItS EaRlY AcCeSeS!"  No one truely believes that excuse anymore.

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tobiassolem
1 hour ago, Soulres said:

This game punishes new players with little to no explanations, forcing players to watch hours upon hours of youtube creator tutorials that may or may not be outdated, just with the hopes of understanding the game. While the devs try to hide under the "ItS EaRlY AcCeSeS!"  No one truely believes that excuse anymore.

I understand that it is frustrating as a new player. It's difficult beyond many games out there. It is meant to be, by design. It's meant as a game to challenge yourself and does not adhere to standard definitions of gameplay. My sympathies if this is too difficult, yet it is described in the about-section of the forum.

The explanation is here:

bild.png.1b27157565ac4a681b6e4cb914f48ad9.png

(Yes, the "realistic" aspect has been discussed over and over, and that debate probably won't ever die - just not pertinent to this discussion)

But if you buy into a "hardcore" game, you EXPECT a very steep learning curve. If you didn't know that this game has a steep learning curve, then that's a YOU problem, not a game problem. It's like when people buy Adobe After Effects, and are bummed out that they can't make those cool video-effects they saw online... WHAT?! I HAVE TO LEARN THINGS?!

And nobody is forcing you into doing anything, some games are just like this. You might come from hand-holding carebear games that coddle you through every step of the way. If that's what you want, then why on earth did you buy Escape From Tarkov?

 

"EaRlY AcCeSs" seems to be a term that you guys are unfamiliar with. Here's an explanation:

bild.png.85360b1c7994b12b874645af4e3dbaec.png

This is *exactly* the state that Escape From Tarkov is in. It said so upon purchase, it says so on the disclaimer, and in the EULA.

Again, the fact that you don't like it, is a YOU problem. You ask that the developers take responsibility for their inadequacies (there are some), take some responsibility of your own or risk coming off as an entitled "Karen".

Edited by tobiassolem
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Jordick

This pretty much covers my whole experience in this wipe. About 9 out of 10 raids are like this.

In this particular raid I left the spawn area as soon as possible while trying to avoid other PMC spawn points. I moved as quietly as possible while trying to stay mobile and using cover as much as possible, but somehow someone still managed to snipe me with one shot from approx 100-150 meters away with silenced weapon.

Someone might say that I should wear a helmet, but the thing is that I did have the best helm on me that I have access to (SSh-68 from Ragman LL1) but it didn't make much difference. This is what I mean with how unbalanced the game is, because these veterans know that us "hatchlings" don't have any armor to protect us from AP rounds and they know the exact routes where to camp us.

And as you can see that with this amount of XP gain per raid it takes a long, loooong time to reach Flea Market & LL2 traders so I could have access to better armor.

But again don't mind me venting my frustration. It just gets really annoying when most of your raids are like this, when all you wanted was to get at least to level 10 so you could unlock the Flea Market where you could purchase better armor.

 

ps. I blurred the names from the screenshot for privacy reasons.

Capture.PNG

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ShiroTenshi

The frustration is palpable, and i can see good arguments on both sides of the issue. One one hand, the game isn't very new player friendly. This is an acknowledged issue with some future plans to address. However, the nature of the game makes it so that whatever is done to address the issue won't be making that big of an impact on the learning curve. 

Backing games in Early Access always carries more risks then buying a finished game. Not only do personal interpretations of the vision of the game vary from person to person, so can the actual implementation of said vision during development. There's a plan, but plans can change due to unforeseen difficulties which can lead to delays, changes, or just incorrect assumptions on what the end product is going to be like. This much is fact.

So, what are some of the ways to fight the learning curve currently?

  1. Offline mode
  2. Scav Runs
  3. Trader PickMeUps (every 24 hours If total value of  stash is below 25-50k)
  4. Sherpas
  5. Friends

While not perfect, these are all things that either let you learn the game with no risk of losing your stash (offline) , give you a bit of free gear to use at no extra cost (PickMeUps and Scav), give you knowledge about the game (Sherpas) and give you an advantage in numbers (friends).

Sadly, a big part of the learning curve is just getting into an online raid and battling it out against other players so you can learn, from experience, what it's like and how those fights can go down.

Tarkov is not the type of game where balance is the main priority. Yes, some balance will be made where it absolutely needs to but EFT isn't the type of game where balance comes first. Real Life war isn't balanced and Tarkov isn't trying to be either (Yes, even though it still has a long way to go as currently it's more like it's in limbo rather then what it's aiming to be).

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skyflashde
vor 2 Stunden schrieb tobiassolem:

"No life to hit level 10"? Level 10 is what? 50K experience? If you're terrible like me you get 3-5K experience per finished raid. So if you absolutely max the raids with 40 minutes per raid, that's 10-17 raids in total, or 680 minutes (11.3 hours) AT MOST .

Never heard such a bullshit.

3-5K XP in a raid is a VERY GOOD RUN for most players. Where everything was perfect.

The average XP for a new player is around 1000 XP for a finished raid.

A new player finishes maybe 1/10 raids and has like a 10% survival rate. I actually died in my first 30 raids or so on the last wipe and then slowly rose to like 15% survival. It took until level 30 to get back to 25% survival... although I did lots of hatchet runs, so maybe those shouldnt be counted in.

So hitting level 10 for the first time took me about 4 weeks of playing every day.

Also, this here is why Tarkov is fucked up:

TarkovDifficulty.png.5ed73bf25a8329e8bb1e36be9b8fdc6e.png

The game essentially becomes easier and easier until it is trivial to play and intense boredom sets in.

 

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skyflashde
vor 4 Minuten schrieb ShiroTenshi:

So, what are some of the ways to fight the learning curve currently?

Sadly, a big part of the learning curve is just getting into an online raid and battling it out against other players so you can learn, from experience, what it's like and how those fights can go down.

You dont understand.

The learning curve is not the problem. The learning curve for new players in Tarkov is JUST FINE as it is.

The problem is that high level players essentially play easy mode and have a huge advantage over anyone without ammo, money and skills.

That even affects players like Pestily, that obviously know everything about the game already. Even they get killed a lot when resetting their account, because they simply cant compete with other players due to the inherent disadvantages, although they have a lot more personal skill and knowledge than anyone else on the map.

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ShiroTenshi
1 minute ago, skyflashde said:

You dont understand.

The learning curve is not the problem. The learning curve for new players in Tarkov is JUST FINE as it is.

The problem is that high level players essentially play easy mode and have a huge advantage over anyone without ammo, money and skills.

That even affects players like Pestily, that obviously know everything about the game already. Even they get killed a lot when resetting their account, because they simply cant compete with other players due to the inherent disadvantages, although they have a lot more personal skill and knowledge than anyone else on the map.

That is also a problem yes, but one that will eventually be affected by features that are planned and announced. Of which, the two most important being:

  1. Removable armor plates and correct armor zones for said plates
  2. KARMA

Once armor doesn't give you all encompassing protection even in areas where realistically there's no armor (like the sides of a vest) then the lower grade ammos will increase in possible efficiency (depending on what they hit).

Karma (even for all the things we don't know about it) will force people to think twice before engaging. Even if a good portion sticks with KOS, as we know they will, there will be other who don't. Increased chances of not being KOS'd lead to increase chances of survival.

And finally, let us remember that some things (like grenades) can defeat or bypass armor and are not that hard to come by. Defeating the learning curve is what feeds the ability to make the correct decisions to avoid or overcome the odds.

Go to offline and learn the map. After that learn where the loot and scavs spawn. Get some friends and even the odds yourself. The more friends you take into a raid, the less slots are available for enemies to occupy. Enlist the help of a Sherpa to teach you what the hotspots and more likely traveled routes are so you can avoid or take them depending on situation.

The unbalance of having veterans go against new players is part of the learning curve. It's not a separate problem.

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skyflashde
Gerade eben schrieb ShiroTenshi:

And finally, let us remember that some things (like grenades) can defeat or bypass armor and are not that hard to come by.

The unbalance of having veterans go against new players is part of the learning curve. It's not a separate problem.

1. Grenades are WAY too expensive to be used by new players. They should be in a price range where you buy packs of 5 for the price of what we pay today, and they need to be available for new players at level 1 prapor (they AREN'T) to even have a chance. Also, there probably should be specific grenade slots so people cannot take 20 grenades into a raid.

2. It has nothing to do with the learning curve, which is about how players learn to play the game. It IS a separate problem, because you cannot learn to penetrate armor with ammo you cant buy, and you cant learn to withstand bullets with armor you cant buy. As you cannot "learn" to break rules that the game sets (like you cant pay for grenades, you cant pay for armor and even if you could, you cant buy them), a computer game has to make sure that the learning curve fits to the games difficulty at all times.

Tarkov is just very badly designed (if at all designed, probably it just happened to be).

Being a hardcore game, Tarkov should have the general difficulty slightly higher than the average player skill. Thats like the difference to a normal game, that tries to stay in the center. Those two curves however (player skill and difficulty), need to be roughly parallel. Which they arent in Tarkov, at all. And that is just bad design, it's not something like "yeah, there are different methods of creating a game, and we picked this one cause we are more hardcore".

Its not that... it's just plain wrong.

Why should a game become easier and easier until you are bored to death?

You cannot learn to balance an inherently imbalanced game. What happens is that you switch sides at some point in time. It has nothing to do with a learn effect, it happens cause you gain levels by playing a lot and levels in Tarkov will completely replace personal skill. Tarkov is not a skill based game, at all.

Tarkov is like a WOW Raid where the players become stronger and stronger but the bosses stay at the same difficulty, until it becomes clubbing baby seals.

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tobiassolem
1 hour ago, skyflashde said:

Never heard such a bullshit.

3-5K XP in a raid is a VERY GOOD RUN for most players. Where everything was perfect.

The average XP for a new player is around 1000 XP for a finished raid.

Wut?

This is a pretty crappy raid, run into Customs, sneak around shoot a few SCAVS, no player kills & extract:

bild.png.9fd21ac9ce64ca357ec3d449b57d0036.png

Nothing special at all, a crappy lowball run. At 100XP per SCAV, and a multiplier of 1.5, this should be the bar minimum.

 

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tobiassolem
1 hour ago, skyflashde said:

So hitting level 10 for the first time took me about 4 weeks of playing every day.

Also, this here is why Tarkov is fucked up:

TarkovDifficulty.png.5ed73bf25a8329e8bb1e36be9b8fdc6e.png

The game essentially becomes easier and easier until it is trivial to play and intense boredom sets in.

If it took you 4 weeks to reach level 10, you must've had some of the worst luck known to man! I've been helping some of my friends get into the game (granted, they come from a milsim background), and once I teach them the basics - they start to out-level me (because I admittedly am not very good at accuracy/reaction in the game).

I do agree with you however that the "end game" in Escape From Tarkov is lacking. That's one of the biggest "holes" in the game currently. The fact that you come to a point where money is irrelevant is strange at the very least.

 

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ShiroTenshi
2 hours ago, skyflashde said:

2. It has nothing to do with the learning curve, which is about how players learn to play the game. It IS a separate problem, because you cannot learn to penetrate armor with ammo you cant buy, and you cant learn to withstand bullets with armor you cant buy. As you cannot "learn" to break rules that the game sets (like you cant pay for grenades, you cant pay for armor and even if you could, you cant buy them), a computer game has to make sure that the learning curve fits to the games difficulty at all times.

Keyword being buy. No one said it was easy, but if you stop looking for the way that holds your hand and actually start looking at what other options you have you will realize that grenades and good ammo types are easy to find in raid. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it takes effort. But it's not impossible at all.

The issue is that people are just not fully utilizing what choices they have. Partially because half of the game is still in development and not in yet, and also partially because they want the game to adapt to their needs instead of adapting themselves to the possibilities of the game.

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3 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

 The more friends you take into a raid, the less slots are available for enemies to occupy.

I feel like that's a problem. Sometimes I feel like playing tarkov, then i remember that if I don't load up with people then there's even more people who will hunt me down if I dare shoot something or make any noise. AND there's even less chance of surviving the first minute of the raid since the spawns are completely and utterly stupid. My internet is shiet so I don't go team up with ppl to be constantly disconnecting or having com issues.

I had a frekin error just trying to post this reply 😕


for solution, I think first, fix the spawns. Have scav groups between players, and already spawned. spread the players way the f0ck out and with more extract. (right now there's basically a north and south extract, with MAYBE an other one if you are lucky, or not if it asks you to drop your bag lol)
Then, a sort of matchmaking, perhaps either with gear score, survival rates and or player levels. or even total stash value. I know Nikita want bambis to have the danger of a team of walking fortress lurking around, but I don't get the point of setting up 1V5s, who ever looses will be pissed for either being gangbanged or for being played like a fiddle by a ghost who came out of nowhere.
I just don't see why a 5man would not want to fight a 5man that expects them and would rather kill solo players in the back.

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Saber123316
2 hours ago, tobiassolem said:

Wut?

This is a pretty crappy raid, run into Customs, sneak around shoot a few SCAVS, no player kills & extract:

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Nothing special at all, a crappy lowball run. At 100XP per SCAV, and a multiplier of 1.5, this should be the bar minimum.

 

That is a good raid. this is exactly what I am talking about the disconnect between the top 1% of players and the rest of us.

Everyone expects to pull 30-40k exp to be a good raid. I just want to be able to get from one end of the map to the other and not get laser beamed by some bush wookiee with his 60 round thermal silenced m4 able to beam me down from 100 meters away without me ever knowing what hit me. 

Meanwhile if someone gets a bead on him with their mosin Nikita just bumps the price up making it even less accessible.

If you get 2-3k in a raid and make it out that is by all accounts a successful raid when your survival percentage is 18%

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Anton_Privalov

I had a discussion quite some time ago about the hardcoreness and realism of ammo vs armor.

I do have a reply there which covers the issue more in depth, but in short, ammo isn't as dangerous as it should be, with the lack of penalties for getting shot at.

In my opinion it's there where the problem lies, and by adding more severe debuffs for getting shot would alleviate the issue of unfairness discussed here. Even just by adding a knockout effect from ammo would make any ammo, no matter the pen, useful, even if the target survives. This makes all players (and AI) a much bigger threat no matter what, which in return psychologically slows down everyone, all the while giving newcomers better confidence in their gear. Which also-also makes all other mid-tier gear even more viable and not just the meta.

Edited by Anton_Privalov
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11 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

Enlist the help of a Sherpa to teach you what the hotspots and more likely traveled routes are so you can avoid or take them depending on situation.

But that's the thing. New players pretty much know these already if they bother watching any guides and doing practice runs in offline mode. But while we know these things so does the veterans and that's what they take advantage of.

For the past few days I've only been trying to do scavenge runs, staying out from conflict zones and trying to avoid other PMCs like cancer. But there's little what you can do when these other PMCs literally hunt you down with their best tier equipment.

The knowledge of the map and mechanics don't do you any good, if you're being hunted down and you don't have access to anything that could protect you from these veteran players. The Fence does sell some good equipment from time to time, but you have to be really fast (and wealthy) in order to obtain those. For example the only ammo available for SKS before Flea Market and LL2 traders are the 7.62.39 PS rounds, and those bullets only tickle the veterans (you can loot better ammo from raids but you need luck for that). You have to be a really good shot and score head shots, but lets face it only the minority of players can manage that.

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