Removing Flea Market

[PeePole]

I'm not sure if this was talked about before (i'm sure it was but i don't prowl the forums often enough), but wouldn't it be better to remove the flea market altogether? I feel as if the flea market kind of makes rare loot not that rare anymore since people who make a good amount of rubles in game can just gung-ho raids and then use their fortune to buy "rare" loot again for another raid. The market kind of makes rare loot not even rare much at all at this point, so i feel that removing it might flesh out the beginning/middle of the game a bit more as well as making much of the rare loots obtained only by finding it in a raid (like on scavs, scav bosses, or containers) while the traders can sell early, mid, and some smaller amounts of rare stuff that you can buy directly from them. This would also make questing more important and leveling traders since much of the gear you buy would come from them instead, fence also works pretty well for this in my opinion. This would make the game feel more along the lines of the survival aspect by making the best of what limited stuff you can buy from the traders or stuff you find in your raids rather than hopping on the market and buying whatever if you have the rubles. I'd like to know if anyone reading this would agree or disagree and maybe even say why since i'm not 100% sure if this would be a viable idea or not.

[Grimm285]

1 hour ago, PeePole said:

I'm not sure if this was talked about before (i'm sure it was but i don't prowl the forums often enough), but wouldn't it be better to remove the flea market altogether? I feel as if the flea market kind of makes rare loot not that rare anymore since people who make a good amount of rubles in game can just gung-ho raids and then use their fortune to buy "rare" loot again for another raid. The market kind of makes rare loot not even rare much at all at this point, so i feel that removing it might flesh out the beginning/middle of the game a bit more as well as making much of the rare loots obtained only by finding it in a raid (like on scavs, scav bosses, or containers) while the traders can sell early, mid, and some smaller amounts of rare stuff that you can buy directly from them. This would also make questing more important and leveling traders since much of the gear you buy would come from them instead, fence also works pretty well for this in my opinion. This would make the game feel more along the lines of the survival aspect by making the best of what limited stuff you can buy from the traders or stuff you find in your raids rather than hopping on the market and buying whatever if you have the rubles. I'd like to know if anyone reading this would agree or disagree and maybe even say why since i'm not 100% sure if this would be a viable idea or not.

as someone who has played many wipes without the flea market i can sum up my entire answer to yours with a very simple, no. 

Before the flea market people still traded but they did so through reddit or other sites then teamed up traded items and up repped anyone who did a successful trade and didn't rip them off.  This meant trading still occurred but was much more volatile and filled the game with people not actually playing but just trading.  
secondly, with the new found in raid system its actually in a pretty good place because rare items still have to be found and any quests requiring found in raid can't be bought through

leveling through traders is STILL way better, as anything from a trader tends to be WAY lower priced.  Things like keys or hideout parts are often the rare things people buy though but considering the exorbitant prices the balance here is the money toll placed on most lower levels.  AS a side note you really shouldn't be buying any gear it should all come from what you bring back from raids until much later in the game or just for kitting out weapons/gear you already own.  

THE biggest suggestion i have for newer players is never buy guns or gear (from flea or traders) until you are in mid to late game play.  This will ensure you have steady money, only use money to upgrade what you already have.  If you don't have enough, run more scavs and low tier weapons avoiding conflict.

[PeePole]

9 minutes ago, Grimm285 said:

as someone who has played many wipes without the flea market i can sum up my entire answer to yours with a very simple, no. 

Before the flea market people still traded but they did so through reddit or other sites then teamed up traded items and up repped anyone who did a successful trade and didn't rip them off.  This meant trading still occurred but was much more volatile and filled the game with people not actually playing but just trading.  
secondly, with the new found in raid system its actually in a pretty good place because rare items still have to be found and any quests requiring found in raid can't be bought through

leveling through traders is STILL way better, as anything from a trader tends to be WAY lower priced.  Things like keys or hideout parts are often the rare things people buy though but considering the exorbitant prices the balance here is the money toll placed on most lower levels.  AS a side note you really shouldn't be buying any gear it should all come from what you bring back from raids until much later in the game or just for kitting out weapons/gear you already own.  

THE biggest suggestion i have for newer players is never buy guns or gear (from flea or traders) until you are in mid to late game play.  This will ensure you have steady money, only use money to upgrade what you already have.  If you don't have enough, run more scavs and low tier weapons avoiding conflict.

damn i forgot about the reddit trade thing, but i guess the found in raid thing will be a good compromise. 

[TheSuperGoons]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:04 PM, Grimm285 said:

as someone who has played many wipes without the flea market i can sum up my entire answer to yours with a very simple, no. 

Before the flea market people still traded but they did so through reddit or other sites then teamed up traded items and up repped anyone who did a successful trade and didn't rip them off.  This meant trading still occurred but was much more volatile and filled the game with people not actually playing but just trading.  
secondly, with the new found in raid system its actually in a pretty good place because rare items still have to be found and any quests requiring found in raid can't be bought through

leveling through traders is STILL way better, as anything from a trader tends to be WAY lower priced.  Things like keys or hideout parts are often the rare things people buy though but considering the exorbitant prices the balance here is the money toll placed on most lower levels.  AS a side note you really shouldn't be buying any gear it should all come from what you bring back from raids until much later in the game or just for kitting out weapons/gear you already own.  

THE biggest suggestion i have for newer players is never buy guns or gear (from flea or traders) until you are in mid to late game play.  This will ensure you have steady money, only use money to upgrade what you already have.  If you don't have enough, run more scavs and low tier weapons avoiding conflict.

crazy stuff

 

[shakadalak]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:15 AM, PeePole said:

damn i forgot about the reddit trade thing, but i guess the found in raid thing will be a good compromise. 

Dude don't let his argument that "people still traded on reddit" defeat your point. I'm with you man, the flea market makes the looting in the game pointless when everything is freely available on the market. If they want to trade and it was volatile, etc, That's their problem for risk/reward, however, I do agree if they weren't actually playing the game and just doing that, then yeah that part sucks.

However, this is a looter shooter, not "buy everything on the flea market shooter." The flea market sucks the worth out of all the loot in the game. Some people complain, oh it takes so long to find "x" item, but that's what makes it worth it when you do find it, ( I'm looking at you OFZ shells). I think the traders should provide a base set of items, and those items increase in tier as you level them up. Kind of how they currently work, just tweaked a bit to not duck the newer players with poo ammo. The new find in raid thing is ok, I'm fine with that. It makes getting out more rewarding.

Keys for example, wouldn't it be awesome to find that rare key you've been wanting and looking for so long in raid?

Not saying that weapons and parts should be locked to in raid only, those should be unlocked through traders. However,, rare items should have the allure of being sought for. The LEDx Spawns, searching all the computers for parts to build your hideout and if you;re lucky, finding a USB or graphics card. Most anyone does it only run to a few places on the map to only the highest tier loot spawns because they bought the key off the flea market. Spreading out the loot and spawns on the map would cause even higher tier players with the higher tier traders to go searching for that item they need or the barter items to trade for it with the traders: that special key, that streamer item, or that barter item for a quest. The flea market makes the "looting" pointless cause most just sell it on the market for rubles.

If people want something like the flea market, make it the "Black Market." Level up your intelligence center to create a digital cryptocurrency wallet. All those bitcoins you've been farming? Put it into your digital wallet. Make the black market only for selling player gear, weapons and parts. A player could build a super sweet gun and put it up for x amount of bitcoin. Bitcoin would have the same functions as before as a physical bitcoin, but with a digital crypto wallet, you can put them inside there and have a new currency on top of dollars, rubles, and euro. You could also make it an end game currency with the highest level intelligence center. 

Doing this would make loot more valuable, it would spread the players out to different areas of the map where those spawns are, TTK would be higher, gear would be more precious and you can still sell all your gear and weapons you find off of players instead of selling it for lower at the traders. Crafting in the hideout, overall, would be better.

In another thread, a BSG crew member mentioned it was planned to be in the game and won't likely be removed, well not all plans always have to go according to plan. This game is in beta, you put something in, you can take it out. Things used to not have to be found in raid, now they are. Scavs used to be idiots, now they are Spetsnaz. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by shakadalak

[buckmg1]

On 8/10/2020 at 5:04 AM, shakadalak said:

Dude don't let his argument that "people still traded on reddit" defeat your point. I'm with you man, the flea market makes the looting in the game pointless when everything is freely available on the market. If they want to trade and it was volatile, etc, That's their problem for risk/reward, however, I do agree if they weren't actually playing the game and just doing that, then yeah that part sucks.

However, this is a looter shooter, not "buy everything on the flea market shooter." The flea market sucks the worth out of all the loot in the game. Some people complain, oh it takes so long to find "x" item, but that's what makes it worth it when you do find it, ( I'm looking at you OFZ shells). I think the traders should provide a base set of items, and those items increase in tier as you level them up. Kind of how they currently work, just tweaked a bit to not duck the newer players with poo ammo. The new find in raid thing is ok, I'm fine with that. It makes getting out more rewarding.

Keys for example, wouldn't it be awesome to find that rare key you've been wanting and looking for so long in raid?

Not saying that weapons and parts should be locked to in raid only, those should be unlocked through traders. However,, rare items should have the allure of being sought for. The LEDx Spawns, searching all the computers for parts to build your hideout and if you;re lucky, finding a USB or graphics card. Most anyone does it only run to a few places on the map to only the highest tier loot spawns because they bought the key off the flea market. Spreading out the loot and spawns on the map would cause even higher tier players with the higher tier traders to go searching for that item they need or the barter items to trade for it with the traders: that special key, that streamer item, or that barter item for a quest. The flea market makes the "looting" pointless cause most just sell it on the market for rubles.

If people want something like the flea market, make it the "Black Market." Level up your intelligence center to create a digital cryptocurrency wallet. All those bitcoins you've been farming? Put it into your digital wallet. Make the black market only for selling player gear, weapons and parts. A player could build a super sweet gun and put it up for x amount of bitcoin. Bitcoin would have the same functions as before as a physical bitcoin, but with a digital crypto wallet, you can put them inside there and have a new currency on top of dollars, rubles, and euro. You could also make it an end game currency with the highest level intelligence center. 

Doing this would make loot more valuable, it would spread the players out to different areas of the map where those spawns are, TTK would be higher, gear would be more precious and you can still sell all your gear and weapons you find off of players instead of selling it for lower at the traders. Crafting in the hideout, overall, would be better.

In another thread, a BSG crew member mentioned it was planned to be in the game and won't likely be removed, well not all plans always have to go according to plan. This game is in beta, you put something in, you can take it out. Things used to not have to be found in raid, now they are. Scavs used to be idiots, now they are Spetsnaz. 

Finally someone who gets it, I agree entirely. I miss being the only person on the map with a specific key that I grinded my ass off to find.  It made it feel far more worthwhile.

[BanditMaka]

I don't love flee. I honestly think the game was better before it..  I think it killed so many quests before FIR was implemented. The last two wipes leveling was an absolute joke.

That said, it has added to the game in some ways and enough other people I have love for do like it, so I can go either way.

[ShiroTenshi]

I honestly wouldn't mind one bit if FM was removed. I honestly think it would improve the game. Replace it with the weekly auction and let all other player to player trading be done in person on raids instead of through the FM.

The issue comes with the fact it was a planned and announced feature that people were expecting when they pre-ordered starting back in 2016, or already available after it was implemented. You'd be hard pressed to remove it and not see any negative backlash from doing so.

[TheHappyMile]

The way EFT works atm, everything becomes shifting around millions of roubles after a few weeks.

 

I think the flee-market itself is ok. I'd like to see the dynamic with less items overall and the market being barter-only.

And remove the bitcoin-farm or even bitcoins at all. Printing money ruins the whole concept of EFT ^^ Gold-Chains and cats are way better to have then redicoulus physical bitcoins

[Antmax]

I'm a newbie and don't yet have access to the flea market lol. I desperately need it because my EOD stash is full of stuff I need but an one or two items short for hideout upgrades and trades.  Sometimes you need 5 - 10 of certain items. 

I could see the game working without a flea market so long as the alternative grind was diminished my reducing some of the requirements.

[buckmg1]

37 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

I honestly wouldn't mind one bit if FM was removed. I honestly think it would improve the game. Replace it with the weekly auction and let all other player to player trading be done in person on raids instead of through the FM.

The issue comes with the fact it was a planned and announced feature that people were expecting when they pre-ordered starting back in 2016, or already available after it was implemented. You'd be hard pressed to remove it and not see any negative backlash from doing so.

Yea I understand, but to be technically true it has been implemented  and everything in Tarkov is subject to change in the near future. The auction house was meant to be implemented but never got that chance due to the flea market  "serving" that purpose.

As well isn't Tarkov supposed to be a hardcore MMO-shooter type game? So grinding is more or less expected, not to mention being able to just buy all the items you need for a quest, took the whole tense fear you developed once you actually found it in raid.

Before the flea market every item had some purpose or was eventually given one through barter trades.  Back then everything was more centered around which items you have, now its about how much money you have.

As well for Backlash, it is inevitable. People will complain about anything & everything, if that causes people to stop playing the game Tarkov wasn't meant for them to begin with. People who are extremely into the game will still keep playing it regardless if the flea market is removed or not.

Edited August 11, 2020 by buckmg1
Forgot to include statement on backlash

[buckmg1]

Bump because of RMT.

[VS-UK_Gom3R]

I agree and think the game would benefit from not having fleamarket. And now after you have implemented anti RMT features then trading on 3rd party sites should harder too? 

 

It is beta after all. Why not try next wipe without fleamarket?

 

Or better yet why not make access to fleamarket a reward for finishing a quest like the kappa case one? 

Edited August 17, 2020 by VS-UK_Gom3R

[chrisragnar]

Dont remove the flea market. Just twerk the spawnrate. They probably will at release.

[ACuddlyBadger]

The flea market is a stupid bandaid on an unharmonious game balance between traders and your reward for taking a risk and time in raid to give them something they won't reward you a proper amount for. Remove the flea and get the in game flow to a good place. Its such a massively and needlessly complex mechanism that has no direct influence on the gameplay itself. I don't play Tarkov to koin kvetch over the economy. Traders should give me the value that the flea does. 

Bolts are 19k on the flea, Therapist gives me 6.6k for them. 

[Caster89Actual]

the only 100% sure fire way to defeat RMT dealers is to shut down the flea market and get rid of rubles and currency altogether and turn the economy into a barter only one. 

even then there might be a way to cheese that system too.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Caster89Actual

[sirbeavis]

On 8/10/2020 at 5:04 AM, shakadalak said:

I'm looking at you OFZ shells

This is an example of the progression problem if flea is removed, I see this quest still open on even some of the biggest streamers of the game, if flea is removed yes the items are way more important when you find them to try and get them out, but also quest progression cant be behind massive walls like this, 10 OFZ shells is insane, I think I have found 3 total in 1000 hours played, and 2 were on scavs to start.

I really like the idea of getting rid of flea market because it will slow the game WAY down, and reduce hackers by a ton, but in a beta game where they are beta testing i believe they want the game to be faster progression so they can test mid to late game.

[davidj123456]

11 hours ago, sirbeavis said:

This is an example of the progression problem if flea is removed, I see this quest still open on even some of the biggest streamers of the game, if flea is removed yes the items are way more important when you find them to try and get them out, but also quest progression cant be behind massive walls like this, 10 OFZ shells is insane, I think I have found 3 total in 1000 hours played, and 2 were on scavs to start.

I really like the idea of getting rid of flea market because it will slow the game WAY down, and reduce hackers by a ton, but in a beta game where they are beta testing i believe they want the game to be faster progression so they can test mid to late game.

In an earlier thread you claimed to have under 700 hours. Now it is 1000?

Also FYI those tank shells MUST be FOUND IN RAID to hand them in to the quest. That quest has nothing to do with Flea Market.

Also, that quest is not required for Kappa and all it gives you is 100K and an unlock of the ASH12, which you can buy from Flea Market for fairly cheap anyway.

During the first month of wipe the flea market is basically impossible to use because all the prices are 100x higher than normal.
Want a LEDX for private clinic? Pay 4Mil instead of the current 900K.
Want a Skeletonized AR15 Grip for the Gunsmith quest? Pay 1Mil instead of the current 50K.
Want a Hose for your hideout? Pay 200K instead of the current 30K.

At the start of wipe people do not use Flea Market much to progress, yet they progress just fine.

[PyroYoda]

34 minutes ago, davidj123456 said:

In an earlier thread you claimed to have under 700 hours. Now it is 1000?

Also FYI those tank shells MUST be FOUND IN RAID to hand them in to the quest. That quest has nothing to do with Flea Market.

Also, that quest is not required for Kappa and all it gives you is 100K and an unlock of the ASH12, which you can buy from Flea Market for fairly cheap anyway.

During the first month of wipe the flea market is basically impossible to use because all the prices are 100x higher than normal.
Want a LEDX for private clinic? Pay 4Mil instead of the current 900K.
Want a Skeletonized AR15 Grip for the Gunsmith quest? Pay 1Mil instead of the current 50K.
Want a Hose for your hideout? Pay 200K instead of the current 30K.

At the start of wipe people do not use Flea Market much to progress, yet they progress just fine.

To me the FiR has made a ristriction to looting.

I am trying to go back and play the game, but it doesn't feel worth it to loot around. And also, being stuck on quests now with the FiR. 

This is the only game I have on my PC, I'm getting bored.

[davidj123456]

6 minutes ago, PyroYoda said:

To me the FiR has made a ristriction to looting.

I am trying to go back and play the game, but it doesn't feel worth it to loot around. And also, being stuck on quests now with the FiR. 

This is the only game I have on my PC, I'm getting bored.

There needs to be some sort of incentive to actually survive the raid. FIR quests are annoying but if you look for the items from day 1 it is fine.

FIR Flea Market is a step in the right direction but too many players are too dependent on the flea market. People here saying it’s impossible to play without it.

[PyroYoda]

1 hour ago, davidj123456 said:

There needs to be some sort of incentive to actually survive the raid. FIR quests are annoying but if you look for the items from day 1 it is fine.

FIR Flea Market is a step in the right direction but too many players are too dependent on the flea market. People here saying it’s impossible to play without it.

I agree, they should tweak the quest items.

1 hour ago, davidj123456 said:

There needs to be some sort of incentive to actually survive the raid. FIR quests are annoying but if you look for the items from day 1 it is fine.

FIR Flea Market is a step in the right direction but too many players are too dependent on the flea market. People here saying it’s impossible to play without it.

I have survived a raid today, on Reserve. So, I guess it's okay for looting but not so much for quests.

[Harvg123]

2 hours ago, sirbeavis said:

This wipe I have under 700 hours, but 1000 total. (still awaiting your screen shots to prove you have the keys, 1750 Hours, Kappa,  6.3 KDR, 57% SR, 700 PMC Kills.) I had to post that there because you like to edit your posts.

Davey doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. He is a walking Tarkov Prime. 

[davidj123456]

Half the weapon parts for gunsmith can be found as barter items from traders. For example if you want the skeletonized pistol grip You can barter a TX15 from Mechanic which has this item. Similarly a lot of weapons that raiders, Scav bosses, and Scav boss guards spawn with have parts required for gunsmith quests.

You don’t need to farm it for hours and you don’t need flea market. You just need to know what you are doing and where to look!

[Eisenwanst]

Oh yeah. Of course. I killed reshala and his minions yesterday at the gasstation. Unfortunatly, a 3 man squad showed up. I managed to hide and avoid them (Untar quest, bad player, you name it.) When i went to loot the shitty rest, 2 playerscavs engaged me. I get one but the second scav killed me.

I know, i know, you guys do the tremorquest with fullgeard squads and a makarov because otherwise it would be too easy. But for the majority of the players out there, its really hard to manage to get Weaponparts for the quests. Even if you have the knowledge.

My solution would be to implement a real hardcoremode. So good players can choose to avoid fleamarket, scavruns and securecontainers. If you choose the hc mode, you get an unice icon like the crown. A big penis or something. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Eisenwanst

[davidj123456]

16 minutes ago, Eisenwanst said:

Oh yeah. Of course. I killed reshala and his minions yesterday at the gasstation. Unfortunatly, a 3 man squad showed up. I managed to hide and avoid them (Untar quest, bad player, you name it.) When i went to loot the shitty rest, 2 playerscavs engaged me. I get one but the second scav killed me.

I know, i know, you guys do the tremorquest with fullgeard squads and a makarov because otherwise it would be too easy. But for the majority of the players out there, its really hard to manage to get Weaponparts for the quests. Even if you have the knowledge.

My solution would be to implement a real hardcoremode. So good players can choose to avoid fleamarket, scavruns and securecontainers. If you choose the hc mode, you get an unice icon like the crown. A big penis or something. 

As I said most of the parts can be brought from traders via money or barter also. 
You having bad luck on one occasion does not mean it is impossible to do without flea market.