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supremeblasheme

quest servers?

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supremeblasheme

maybe put some servers aside for people who want to quest or PVE. getting farmed by armor turtles and streamers all day at quest location is making me qant to quit for good. also might want to get rid of all the armor/helmets since they do nothing..... EX. there are 26 helemts in the game and about 2 actually work with the next best 10 still allowing to get one tapped thru the helmet, not the face but the helmet itself allows for a one tap.... why spend the money on helmets at all

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tweediebrd

I feel like designating servers for quests would definitely have an ill effect...there would be people waiting in specific quest locations waiting for you. It's generally not as big of an issue now because you never know if people in your raid are working on quests, earning money or just killing. 

 

Utilizing night raids and weird time raids is a good way of being able to work on quests. For example, a 19:00 raid still has lots of daylight but many avoid this or they do a quick run through, giving you plenty of time to do a quest. 

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supremeblasheme

its really about running into groups of people and having armor that does nothing because the whole group has better gear and ammo. i it would just be cool to have a server where you can acutally play the game without getting dunked on by chads "sherpaing people" thru quest which ends up being 3-5 people camping quest locations while one does the quest.....

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ShiroTenshi

Hello

There will be no PVE only option for EFT. Any and all progress will only be possible in PVPVE servers, as has already been stated by the DEVs.

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Pralines
22 hours ago, ShiroTenshi said:

Hello

There will be no PVE only option for EFT. Any and all progress will only be possible in PVPVE servers, as has already been stated by the DEVs.

Hi

it is too bad, because the "game" is very good but much too hard/punitive for casual players and/or beginners,

i cannot recommend the games to any of my "old"  friends

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afgan_
On 6/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, ShiroTenshi said:

Hello

There will be no PVE only option for EFT. Any and all progress will only be possible in PVPVE servers, as has already been stated by the DEVs.

I don't think this is what is being suggested. What you are talking about is sort of "Co-op" offline with friends, where one coudl test the gear etc.

My understanding of OP suggestion is PVE only server with no other players around and I totally support this! Why - because I don't care about PVP... yes it could exists buy it is much more of annoyance and hindrance for me, I would be more than happy to play game completely offline never seeing any other players in my game and just focusing on story line and quests. Co-op with friends woudl be great as well, provided there are more challenging NCPs and more of them. 

One can call me "casual", but PVP is not everyone's thing, especially poorly optimised game, with broken netcode, de-sycs, cheaters and in without "matchmaking". Would PVP be completely fair and level and the game perfectly smooth I would consider PVP for the memes, but now it is just annoying to be fair.

So yeah - I support the idea of being able to complete the quests "offline" or on dedicated server.

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ShiroTenshi
7 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

I don't think this is what is being suggested.

No, you are misunderstanding. Offline mode, even with friends, is planned and is not a PVE option since it doesn't save any progress.

PVE means Player Versus Environment. Meaning, no other players.

This has already been confirmed not not be in the plan to be added, nor are the DEVss entertaining the idea of adding it. According to them, it has no place in the vision for Tarkov. Any and all progression (that is, doing quests, getting XP, getting loot, etc) must be done online in servers where other players are also playing which is PVPVE (Player Versus Player Versus Environment).

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afgan_

@ShiroTenshi- No... I understand what you saying and I know what was confirmed for future development. However - that is not what OP (or I)is suggesting.

Fair enough - currently BSG has no plans for such thing and all the quest will have to be completed in PVP. However, there are clearly different types of players - the ones who likes PVP and does not care much about the lore and the quests ... and the ones who likes the quests, the lore and perhaps hardcore mechanics of the games, survival aspects etc. BUT does not like PVP (especially in the state as it is today).

Let me give you example - STALKER is considered hardcore game and not for casual players, yet ones does not need to worry about 5 man squad or cheaters to smash their heads whilst they progressing on the story. Having PVP does not make game more hardcore - it is just simply annoying (I mean for kind of players who are here for the story).

What dedicated PVE servers and PVP as an option would allow is to attracts both types of players into the game. It does not require much of extra development or effort either - base game is the same regardless. Again fair enough - maybe BSG view is that game must suck and be annyong  to be hardcore and that is  fine with me, yet that does not make suggestion of PVE only servers and progress less credible.

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Regional

PvE Servers would ruin the game, it's a cool idea but it wouldn't work out. 

Quests would be 100x easier
Everyone would be filthy rich
There would be no point on going to the pvp servers cause people just want loot.

And for the helmet thing it's kinda true 90% of helmets suck.

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ShiroTenshi
3 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

What dedicated PVE servers and PVP as an option would allow is to attracts both types of players into the game. It does not require much of extra development or effort either

Well, both BSG and the main page for the game have always been pretty upfront about Tarkov being a multiplayer only game. This was something that was set even before pre-orders were possible. I understand perfectly well that some people don't like PVP, however isn't that something that has to be considered before pre-ordering?

And you are incorrect. It would take extra development and funding, as they would need a specific database and server hive, along with all the development time and costs needed to make and run these.

The DEVs put their vision of the game above many things, which is why they have already made the decision and announcement that what you are suggesting is not going to happen.

I understand it won't please players who don't care about PVP, i understand it will be turning down the possibility of bigger sales volume. But so do the DEVs and this is the decision they have come to.

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afgan_
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

1. always been pretty upfront about Tarkov being a multiplayer only game.

2. And you are incorrect. It would take extra development and funding, as they would need a specific database and server hive.

1. Being MMO is not equal being exclusively PVP. Take any MMO as example and you will mostly see PVP and PVE servers alongside. At no point I suggested BSG was hiding something, yet forcing players to play with cheats and complete the quests when being disadvantaged by non-existing "matchmaking", just doesn't seem like best solution.

2. This is only true if Devs wants to consider progress separately (and I agree there could be argument for this). However, it is not necessary. In fact infra is already there - this is in no way different from existing offline mode even quest tracking is already there in offline mode. The only difference currently is that progress resets after offline raid. So actually BSG already gone the step further and added development which this suggestions is basically just asking to disable. Even having separate infrastructure for same game is not that much - I am from development background myself and just making copy of VM is not considered massive task. Finally, again this doesn't even need development - simple tick-box and config would do. Basically if you tick PVE only no other players will be allowed to join online session.

In summary what you saying is that there will be no PVE only because devs don't want it. And that is fair... however without disrespect it seems you saying that such suggestion cannot even be made, because at some point someone have stated that there are no plans for it.. or so you think.

I may have missed something, but I thought suggestions are exactly for that - to suggest things. Only devs will decide what will get implemented, but it doesn't mean that community cannot suggest things.. right?

Edited by afgan_

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tobiassolem

There's a spark of creativity in the community that I like, it is one of the main reasons why the modding community in other games grow strong. Modding tools and people's ingenuity can lead to different editions of a game. In the ARMA-scene (where I've been) this lead to zombies being added, survival mechanics being added, more strange vehicles, and even hello-kitty skins in the game.

For all of this to be possible, all of these creative minds had to create their own servers, and run their own little miniatures of the main game. Some caught on, most of them didn't. Not everyone is cut out to be a successful game designer. That's just the bleak reality of it all.

I know, since I've both been a part of running two succcessful versions of ARMA-mods, as well as one unsuccessful. Those were the days. I'm actually glad I'm no longer a part of that. Because once you open something for modding, it exposes a lot of things and makes a lot of things complicated.

 

Escape From Tarkov is not ARMA, it's not my version, your version, or any other modder versions of the game. There's one cluster of servers, operated by Battlestate, and we are playing the developers version of game. That's how they intended it.

You can fantasize about different versions of the game. Just like anyone. Some people suggest zombies, others suggest removing flea market, everyone suggests different things. That's also a part of why we have forums.

But there's some things that go against the core concept and vision of the game. And PvE-servers is not a part of it. It goes against the game.

But wait! There's more. There will be a singleplayer game set in Norivinsk (where Tarkov is) in the future. Maybe that will be more similar to what you want?

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ShiroTenshi
28 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

1. Being MMO is not equal being exclusively PVP.

I never mentioned the MMO tag. I specifically said 'Multiplayer' because that is what the DEVs said more the once during the 2016 interviews.

28 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

2. This is only true if Devs wants to consider progress separately (and I agree there could be argument for this). However, it is not necessary.

No, if there are players that can farm gear without contest then are able to put it out into the world where others can buy it, this would screw up the economy for those who do not want to play in a PVE only environment. If there would be 2 modes, each mode would need to be separate from the other. No interaction.

28 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

In summary what you saying is that there will be no PVE only because devs don't want it. And that is fair... however without disrespect it seems you saying that such suggestion cannot even be made, because at some point someone have stated that there are no plans for it.. or so you think.

I am stating there will not be a PVE mode because the DEVs have already made the final decision that it won't be added. I am informing people making this suggestion that there is no merit to using up time in doing so because the Decision has already been made

People are, of course, still free to discuss this as they want but allowing them to do so believing it can result in a change would be disservice to them. 

Listen, i enjoy a good single player story as much as anyone else. I prefer it to just a mindless online shooter with no substance. However that is not EFT. BSG has already said that their next product will be a story focused single player game, but that EFT is going to remain as a multiplayer only game.

There are things that the DEVs are not willing to change or compromise on and this (according to the DEVs themselves) is one of them. Most people don't understand this because they haven't been following the DEVs for long enough or haven't researched that much in depth into what has been said before, that is why Emissaries, Community Managers and other staff exist.

This has been suggested many times before. It's not the first time. And it's been denied just as many times. I just want people to understand what the DEVs stance is on this, and for them to understand that some times no matter how good they may think a suggestion it's still not going to make it.

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afgan_
Posted (edited)

@tobiassolem I don't think we need to read too deep into it. I am happy for developers to develop their game and I am not suggesting open EFT for mods either.

My feeling is that EFT is currently based on 2 incompatible concepts, one is story driven survival and the other one is PVP showdown of who has THICCest gear. Maybe if we would have matchmaking to level the playing field, maybe if we would have solution for cheats, maybe if we would have perfect netcode where you shoot and hit and don't die 5 meters behind the cover, maybe if we would have 100% optimised game where somebody running recommended spec. PC can have stable and decent FPS... MAYBE then it would be less of an issue.

And I know answer to this - Game is Beta and all above will be fixed in final version. Now let's put realist hat on and honestly think about the answer... yes things will improve (I have no doubt), but certain issues cannot be fully fixed, ever. I have been on enough projects from Closed Alpha and Beta to know how the things progress. Some of those projects still in Open beta.. 10 years since it was meant to be "completed".

What this suggestion is - a temporary solution where different kind of players can enjoy the game. Maybe at some point game going to reach such a maturity where it won't be required anymore.. who knows. 

P.S. I cannot like your post because apparently I have reached the limit for likes... 

@ShiroTenshi MMO is Massive Multiplayer Online, it could be PVP, PVE or both. Multiplayer does not need to be PVP by definition. Not sure what you are trying to say here.

PVE does not mean "without contest"... and absolutely both PVE and PVP could coexist on single server. There are certain and simple solutions for that and it could be balanced out, similar to FIR only Flea. But that is separate discussion. That they cannot co-exist is just your opinion - and by any means you are entitled to have it, but opinion is just that an opinion. My opinion here is again just an opinion.

And, don't be naive and talk in "absolutes" - there are no such thing as "final decision", like there are no such thing as "completed open beta game". We going to have final decision when the version 1.0.00.0000 will be released. Then it will be fair to say - the game is finished and it is what it is. Take recent example about "private clinic" and THICC case. I am sure 2 week ago one could have said the way this quest work is "final decision"... and here we are today...

Finally, don't get me wrong... and you are right... I haven't been discussing and following dev discussion to know what was said in 2016 and I appreciate your response. That said they may have said it will not be the case and you are right to point that out. Yet I don't consider anything to be final in this game ... I mean in version 0.12 (built number anything to go by it is still alpha, although versioning is completely arbitrary so who knows that the number actually indicates) and if there is enough support in community or enough players abandoning the game I feel that devs could change their mind. 

Don't you think so? 

Edited by afgan_

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Shaktimaan

@supremeblasheme

Remember, the arena mode is planned at the END of the development cycle (most likely) so that's where people are going to enjoy most of their PVP action in that mode. If you didn't know the arena mode thingy, it's going to happen but it's probably going to arrive extremely late (say 2-3 years?).

As far as the "cost of doing business" thingy goes, it's honestly the biggest economic thing which separates Tarkov from the rest of the gaming universe.

I understand that some people just want to enjoy the shooting mechanics (I'm one of them and now a days I literally spend most of my time in offline mode trying out sniping) but unfortunately those things cannot be mutually exclusive because of the game design. If they do decide to do something like this, it's going to fracture the playerbase beyond repair unfortunately.

 

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afgan_
17 hours ago, Shaktimaan said:

If they do decide to do something like this, it's going to fracture the playerbase beyond repair unfortunately.

And what is alternative to that? 

People who are here for story and does not want to be constantly killed by CHADs and cheats, or are just disadvantaged due to internet connection, PC specs or even skill... or even just not that interested in PVP elements just going to leave...

So what is better - "fracturing the community" or losing half of the community?

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Xarc
Just now, afgan_ said:

So what is better - "fracturing the community" or losing half of the community?

I would go for the half. :P

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afgan_
Posted (edited)

I guess that is selfish, but makes sense in short run - especially from BSG perspective. They have collected the money and now does not care if people continues to pay or quits.. money stays with them and the less players there are the less they have to spend on server maintenance. 

However, in long run they cannot expect people to buy their next game if they are ignoring the basic needs. Especially true with rumors of their next game being single players story based one - they would alienate exactly that part of community which they expect to play their next game?!

Edited by afgan_
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Stilton
16 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

However, in long run they cannot expect people to buy their next game if they are ignoring the basic needs. 

I dunno, they will say about their next game...

" It a multiplayer real time strategy game "

 

and people will ask in their forums: 

"Can you make it a turn based racing game and i'd like to play it singleplayer."

 

Tbh if i was them, i wouldn't want those customers.

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afgan_

I mean I like your hyperbole style example, but what is being asked here is not at all outside of scope for FPS RPG MMO. PVP and PVE are common modes of MMO. What is unusual however is that in EFT one is expected to complete all PVE tasks on PVP servers... that is actually unusual, more commonly there are PVP servers and "achievements" or "challenges" system and PVE servers with story/quests. Some may argue this makes game more "hardcore", some may argue it is just simply "annoying". 

Again as I mentioned if EFT PVP would be perfectly polished probably there would be less reason to ask for PVE only servers. Currently, it is nowhere near to be polished... and further making PVE servers would be much easier than fixing huge amount of issues which exists in PVP.

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Stilton

So,  extra coding, new / seperate servers... 

You cannot share characters or items between the modes...  Otherwise people who have actually put in the time/effort  to do it the 'hard way' are disenfranchised -- and people would just 'farm' the 'ez mode'.

 

Your idea just sounds like a lot of extra work for no benefit to BSG.

Considering all the extra work you are suggesting, to make it 'easier'  -- especially when it has been said multiple times, they are going to make the game harder. -- Do you think this is inline with the direction of the game?

 

Also your say that 'mmos dont do it this way'  and that's not strictly true, i can think of examples of 'real mmos' where questing is an integral part of pvp

15 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

I mean I like your hyperbole style example

 Also, thanks :)

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afgan_
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Stilton said:

So,  extra coding, new / seperate servers... 

Please justify... PVE mode is already there, only that it resets after raid. Some script changes and maybe some UI change will be needed, but that is tiny in grand scheme of things.

43 minutes ago, Stilton said:

You cannot share characters or items between the modes...  Otherwise people who have actually put in the time/effort  to do it the 'hard way' are disenfranchised -- and people would just 'farm' the 'ez mode'.:)

Just your opinion... I feel that they can share the same environment as in most game they do. If you want extra challenged or if you so OP CHAD with super-man skills you can do questing in PVP. I am not the one to stop you, but I feel many players would switch to PVE questing. The PVP challenges remains - if you have to kill 10 PMCs to unlock certain "achievement" that will remain PVP-only.

Based on this logic - players who don't play SCAV should be "disenfranchised", because others play SCAVand has advantage of getting gear without risk, as such they shouldn't be playing in the same server?!

43 minutes ago, Stilton said:

Considering all the extra work you are suggesting, to make it 'easier'  -- especially when it has been said multiple times, they are going to make the game harder. -- Do you think this is inline with the direction of the game?:)

Well, I consider that separating player base in not necessary and minor configuration will be enough. Maybe one should not be able to sell items from PVE in Flea Market or even traders (with exception of if they take them to PVP raid then somebody who finds them will be able to sell to traders). I mean there could be a lot of very simple and very effective limitation to make it fair for PVP players.

To actually fix PVP... it could be improved, but I don't believe it will ever be "completed". So in short time for PVP fixes is infinity. Again as you have ideas of how PVE mode would require separate servers and all other things I consider unnecessary, same from my view PVP needs full and complex matchmaking based on player level, gear and squad size... the netcode has to be perfect and have 100% accurate hitred and perfect ping compensation, this further depends on all players having good interned with very low ping definitely less than 40ms and preferably as close to 0ms as possible, the hitboxes have to be perfect, the damage mechanic need to be completely reworked, with stopping power, pain, weapon damage/malfunction considerations... The cheaters have to be 100% eliminated ... I mean there almost endless list of improvements to make PVP somewhat realistic and enjoyable. As such PVE questing seems like perfect workaround which would keep everyone happy.

Do I think think this is right direction for the game ? Absolutely. Hardcore MMO, does not need to be PVP at all. What makes the games realistic/hardcore is game mechanics like.. bullet drop, zeroing, bleeding, broken bones, health zones for limbs and critical organs, hardcore healing mechanics, pain mechanics, weight mechanics, stamina mechanics and a lot of other realistic things. If AI is reasonably advanced that could be MMO RPG FPS which could be played as both PVP and PVE. For it to be played and enjoyed as PVP, the PVP has to be perfected and balanced, not dumb RNG lottery where one raid you play against 5 hatchlings and netcode favours you and you kill without even hitting or people just could not hit you, but then in the other raid you are loaded against 5 CHADS or cheaters does not make game more realistic or hardcore... it makes it annoying. 

Edited by afgan_
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Shaktimaan
On 6/26/2020 at 7:36 PM, afgan_ said:

To actually fix PVP... it could be improved, but I don't believe it will ever be "completed". So in short time for PVP fixes is infinity. Again as you have ideas of how PVE mode would require separate servers and all other things I consider unnecessary, same from my view PVP needs full and complex matchmaking based on player level, gear and squad size... the netcode has to be perfect and have 100% accurate hitred and perfect ping compensation, this further depends on all players having good interned with very low ping definitely less than 40ms and preferably as close to 0ms as possible, the hitboxes have to be perfect, the damage mechanic need to be completely reworked, with stopping power, pain, weapon damage/malfunction considerations... The cheaters have to be 100% eliminated ... I mean there almost endless list of improvements to make PVP somewhat realistic and enjoyable. As such PVE questing seems like perfect workaround which would keep everyone happy.

The game was never designed to be balanced at all as it's not supposed to be an arena shooter. It's supposed to reflect real life combat situations where things are often BS and unfair. To me, it looks like you're trying to mix in two different games into one which you would prefer. Everyone loves the idea of the underdog PM pistol player killing the chad in the fort armor, but in reality the underdog war stories are famous because it's EXTREMELY rare and it's also an utter failure for the superior side.

Nikita once said that there will be a place in the game for every player. Which also could mean that not every player would have a place everywhere.

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afgan_
4 minutes ago, Shaktimaan said:

The game was never designed to be balanced at all

Well if that is the case - I just get 5 man squad and we rule all day every day?! 

As for PVE - that does not make game more or less balanced, it just allows people to play the game without an need to be forced to play in broken and disgusting PVP. Everyone could still have some fun, game is still going to be challenging and PVP will be there when somebody wants to play it for some thrills. However, at the current state it is not "thrills" it is just broken lottery when net-code RNG randomly decides when you lose all your gear and when you kill silly kills after 360 degree turn and get some gear you neither want nor can sell... 

17 minutes ago, Shaktimaan said:

 To me, it looks like you're trying to mix in two different games into one which you would prefer.

For me it seems opposite - in PVE balance does not matter, because in general YOU are the one who has advantage, as such all the weapons and all the mechanics could be made truly realistic and hardcore and game would still work fine. However, you there are limits in PVP of how much you can make game realistic before it breaks the game and makes it unplayable. So I feel like it is BSG who are currently trying to combined two incompatible concepts in one game. If they really going to achieve realism (which is key feature of the game and what I like) then PVP will not be possible, if they truly want to make game to work in PVP then compromises on realism will have to be made.

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Shaktimaan
Posted (edited)

@afgan_

Quote

Well if that is the case - I just get 5 man squad and we rule all day every day?! 

Yep, if that's what you really want, then yes. You can 5 stack on factory where a maximum of 6-8 players can queue at a time for the map. poo, there are some players who even exit camp with this strategy on factory and I sincerely have no idea on what goes on in their heads for even doing so.

Quote

However, you there are limits in PVP of how much you can make game realistic before it breaks the game and makes it unplayable. So I feel like it is BSG who are currently trying to combined two incompatible concepts in one game. If they really going to achieve realism (which is key feature of the game and what I like) then PVP will not be possible, if they truly want to make game to work in PVP then compromises on realism will have to be made.

It's a video game mate. It CANNOT EVER be realistic beyond a certain degree. However, it can try to mimic some real life situations and the key word here is "try". The thrill of combat in this game IS to be able to spot your enemy, make a good tactical choice and then live with the choice or die with the choice and get some extra bonus goodies as a reward for killing a player and sometimes not even that because it isn't what you're looking for. It isn't made for "thrill seeking" adrenaline rush 24x7. This isn't a Call of Duty game where there is non stop adrenaline rush gameplay available 24x7x365. The game has it's sweet moments where things sometimes get a lot more intense after being quiet for a long long time.

Edited by Shaktimaan

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