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RyenG

Idea to help Struggling Players

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RyenG

I have a gameplay suggestion i think would benefit new and old players alike.

Take the Scav mode and change it basically offline PvE mode with increased bots, lowered xp, skill gain and loot and Tagged so the bots go after you.

Let people keep the stuff they extract with and xp they gain ( make it noticeably lower quality loot) and remove the Scav gameplay feature that alot of people dont like but find its needed for people to get out of a bind.

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opiat3

And then proceed to complain that there isn't enough pvp engagements, as all the those players will be constantly farming offline mode and barely play with the pmc, as it was in the early alpha and they had to change the offline mode to have no progression or loot because everyone was farming offline.

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skyflashde
vor 8 Minuten schrieb opiat3:

as all the those players will be constantly farming offline mode and barely play with the pmc, as it was in the early alpha and they had to change the offline mode to have no progression or loot because everyone was farming offline.

If the offline mode without PvP is played more than the real game, MAYBE you should ask yourself as the developer if your real game sucks ass?

There must be a reason why players liked the offline version more. That reason needs to be fixed.

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opiat3
4 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

If the offline mode without PvP is played more than the real game, MAYBE you should ask yourself as the developer if your real game sucks ass?

There must be a reason why players liked the offline version more. That reason needs to be fixed.

Are you serious?

Well if you can´t get there by yourself, i tell you why.

Because most ppl nowadays can´t even play a video game anymore without having a "mid life crisis" when they lose or die (some even try and start petitions over a game ) ... because in this game in particular ppl consider that 95% of their deaths is a result of cheaters or servers or whatever it is but not their own actions... and ultimately because ppl dont like to lose their precious virtual gear so they would play in a way for that not to happen and that is the idea that was given by @RyenG.

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afgan_
19 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

ppl consider that 95% of their deaths is a result of cheaters or servers or whatever it is but not their own actions...

And that is mostly true if we appreciate that game meant to be "realistic MMO RPG FPS simulation". Considering current issues with netcode, pings, lags, cheaters, hitreg, desync, disconnects, crashes etc - I would say from my experience I die 80% of time due to the issues outside of my control, so only in one out of 5 times I can say "GG it was either my fault or simply nice engagement where I lost because other player was more skillful and deserved to win". I even include things like "bushy-mosin-lings" - although scummy that valid tactics in current meta.

50 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

And then proceed to complain that there isn't enough pvp engagements, as all the those players will be constantly farming offline mode and barely play with the pmc, as it was in the early alpha and they had to change the offline mode to have no progression or loot because everyone was farming offline.

This maybe the case, but even according to Nikita there is too much of PVP in game. What he says is that we playing the game wrong. PMCs are not suppose to automatically kill each other and there should be positive Fried or Foe identification before the fight. At very least BEAR vs. BEAR (or USEC) fight should not happen normally and are considered "friendly fire". That is not something I say, that is literally what they looking to achieve in future with "carma system".

If that is possible - it remains to be seen, but it will be difficult (I am skeptical)

@RyenG - I think there are better ways to achieve the outcome. I support the PVE mode with progression, but not as replacement to SCAVs.

@skyflashde - that is very valid point. Not allowing people to play PVE because you afraid they will stop PVP is just proof that PVP sucks. 

Here I would mention that to create enjoyable yet realistic PVP is much harder challenge than create enjoyable and realistic PVE. This is jus because of external factors like cheaters or internet connection speeds which are often outside of BSG control. However, again that should not justify keeping only PVP mode.

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skyflashde
vor einer Stunde schrieb opiat3:

Because most ppl nowadays can´t even play a video game anymore without having a "mid life crisis" when they lose or die (some even try and start petitions over a game )  and ultimately because ppl dont like to lose their precious virtual gear so they would play in a way for that not to happen and that is the idea that was given by @RyenG.

So maybe then if you release a game in 2020 you should design the game for the players of 2020 and not for players of 1990.

That includes removing game mechanics that obviously dont really work well in 2020.

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opiat3
1 hour ago, afgan_ said:

that is very valid point. Not allowing people to play PVE because you afraid they will stop PVP is just proof that PVP sucks. 

Who is not allowing you to play PVE ? They never disallowed PVE in order to promote PVP, that is your invention. They did remove loot and exp and progression from offline which is completely different... you can PVE all you want, just don´t expect to be getting the EXP and loot that the rest of the players work hard to earn against AI and other players.

 

30 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

So maybe then if you release a game in 2020 you should design the game for the players of 2020 and not for players of 1990.

That includes removing game mechanics that obviously dont really work well in 2020.

Dont know what you intend to say with that as it doesnt make any sense.

You asked why did players rather play offline then online back in early alpha days , and i answered you , now if you dont like the answer its fine, but it wont change... that is why ppl played offline, to farm and not risk any gear and gain from that process.

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peamilk

@opiat3 you're one of those people who rapes pistol runners voicelining STOP CEASE FIRE, aren't you?

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Saws_n_Sins

People have been asking for something like that for a long time. I don't think they will add it though. I even suggested before an entirely different PMC you can play with in offline PvE. Different PMC as in nothing is shared with your "online" PMC (stash, skills, excetera). BSG would not need to pay for the servers because everything can be hosted on your end. You could then play with friends (as long as they use their "offline" PMC) in a pier-to-pier play style where whoever is leader would end up hosting the server on their end.

This would really help new players learn the game way easier and everything before joining the "online" community. Of course the "offline" PMC mode there would be no flea market (because how would there be one lol) and is just simply a "single player mode". Which in turn I guess would not ever be wiped when wipes come and it would just exist on your machine on your end.

The try hard call of duty players would be very against this idea so it will never happen. Their excuse is it would take away from the PvP, which it really won't, you will still have the same amount of PMCs per raid anyways. Also they are adding an arena mode for the true cod players down the line anyways.

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afgan_
23 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

Who is not allowing you to play PVE ? They never disallowed PVE in order to promote PVP, that is your invention. They did remove loot and exp and progression from offline which is completely different... you can PVE all you want, just don´t expect to be getting the EXP and loot that the rest of the players work hard to earn against AI and other players.

You clearly didn't even try to understand the point.. have you? The point is PVE progression - yes everyone can practice in Offline/PVE mode but that is not the point. 

If there is ever time in game where large part of community would rather play PVE, then this is indication of PVP being broken. 

Now as I mentioned many times - creating enjoyable PVP is massive task... I am not against it, just that at the currently it simply sucks. I often feel like I am playing RNG vs game bugs before I even have a chance to PVP. Adding on top of that cheaters and grindy quests and it becomes really annoying. I thought the goal of devs was to created realistic game and not the annoying one?

@Saws_n_Sins - although I am not against it, but I am sure that this won't even happen for reasons.. Like piracy.. if there is true offline then game can be cracked and nobody needs to connect to it ever.

That said I would happily play such game as I really had enough fighting with bushes and cheaters - I am happy with game mechanics as it is.. as long as I don't need to shoot into bugged out chads just to get on shoted to the head after they tank 5 bullets and flip-shots me after 360 in the head. Yet at the same time there are better compromises keeping everyone happy.

 

Edited by afgan_

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RyenG

I only PvE to learn to kill bosses better but I feel for alot of newer players. Alot of my friends who are new only play as scav and wont ever use there PMC. This in turn doesnt give them the skill xp, spawn point knowledge ect. thats needed to get better.  You could even have AI PMC`s in the progressive offline mode to simulate map flow, spawns. People would still play PvP if they made only crappy-mid tier loot appear, make quests only able to complete online and stuff found in PvE cant be sold on market.

Just my 2 cents guys im not crying about anything just a idea that popped in my head. Thanks for the feedback

Edited by RyenG

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Saws_n_Sins
7 minutes ago, afgan_ said:

@Saws_n_Sins - although I am not against it, but I am sure that this won't even happen for reasons.. Like piracy.. if there is true offline then game can be cracked and nobody needs to connect to it ever.

That said I would happily play such game as I really had enough fighting with bushes and cheaters - I am happy with game mechanics as it is.. as long as I don't need to shoot into bugged out chads just to get on shoted to the head after they tank 5 bullets and flip-shots me after 360 in the head. Yet at the same time there are better compromises keeping everyone happy.

 

Hmm that is decent point about piracy, maybe if it was ever done (and that is a big if I know) you would still need to launch the game and connect to the official servers (main menu so to speak). Then just add the main menu have the option of which PMC you would want to play. So you would still need a legit version of the game because you would need to still officially connect into the game. Just if you played your offline PMC when you launch the game you would be hosting the server from your machine.

So hopefully you have good internet and friends want to connect lol, or if you have bad internet let them host. Wouldn't effect the economy in game in any way because it would be a completely different PMC that can't connect to the flea market or anything to do with "online" PMC. I doubt it would ever be implemented but to me it doesn't seem like a bad idea. With all the BS going on in the game, me and friends just want to play the game and have fun cause their is no other shooter game on the market like Tarkov so we would like to play Tarkov. Love the game . I guess if they did do the offline mode, They would need to have the scavs population turned up and higher difficulty for scavs

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rvn01

Having some options would be nice.

Learning the game right now as a new player is just an insane uphill battle and not very rewarding. As you are forced thru the grind of  repetative quests that act as ambush points from more experienced and geared players.

 

Then you have to deal with the various

  • AI performance (very random, sometimes they 1shot kill you, other times they allow themself to be farmed).
  • Bad servers or netcode(client side prediction having you killed around corners & opponents "warping") (or possibly both).
  • Static map locations - (Maps are more of a speedrun to reach the valuable resources).
  • Low level armors not being effective.

The amount of advantages the high level/experienced players have is just absurd, i doubt there will be a "healthy" community if they keep it like this.

 

It reminds me of another "dead" game, that died just because of how much good players could dominate (Quake, Quake 3)

 

TL;DR There should be either skillbased matchmaker and "incentives" for experienced players to fight eachother instead of free-farming new players. PvE mode might be abit extreme, but could be a temporary measure while game is in testing.

Edited by rvn01

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opiat3
15 hours ago, afgan_ said:

If there is ever time in game where large part of community would rather play PVE, then this is indication of PVP being broken. 

No... you are wrong, no matter how many times you repeat that. The only reason for that to happen in this particular game is the fact that you loose everything upon death, there is no other reason... So, if they had the option to still progress and gain loot without risking their own, they go for it. Its that simple.

 

14 hours ago, rvn01 said:

The amount of advantages the high level/experienced players have is just absurd, i doubt there will be a "healthy" community if they keep it like this.

Yes, who the hell had this idea. Who would imagine that players that spend more time playing and are more experienced would have advantages over someone that is just starting, right? It should be the other way around, you would start with everything maxed and as you progress in the game and get better at it,  you would become less and less competent degrading your skills and lowering trader reps and so on... that´s how they should have done it right?

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afgan_
5 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

No... you are wrong, no matter how many times you repeat that. The only reason for that to happen in this particular game is the fact that you loose everything upon death, there is no other reason... So, if they had the option to still progress and gain loot without risking their own, they go for it. Its that simple.

Why you made such assumption that any game mechanic would changed in PVE - you would still lose all you gear and loot after the death. The only difference - you probably die less often and your deaths will be less absurd and bugged out.

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rvn01
6 hours ago, opiat3 said:

No... you are wrong, no matter how many times you repeat that. The only reason for that to happen in this particular game is the fact that you loose everything upon death, there is no other reason... So, if they had the option to still progress and gain loot without risking their own, they go for it. Its that simple.

 

Yes, who the hell had this idea. Who would imagine that players that spend more time playing and are more experienced would have advantages over someone that is just starting, right? It should be the other way around, you would start with everything maxed and as you progress in the game and get better at it,  you would become less and less competent degrading your skills and lowering trader reps and so on... that´s how they should have done it right?

Normally games that have a RPG "powerlevel" limit the amount of individual skill that is possible in the game, or they add separate gamemodes wich disable or put everyone on the same "powerlevel".

What i was implying was that tarkov can have good players (geared + skilled) incentivised to fight players of similar caliber. (special cosmetic perks or w/e added for the hideout or skins)

Or add incentives for players who have the funds to always run "optimal loadouts" to instead use cheap/shitty ones.

Else what will happen is the game will have a certain core, who have all the level advantages & always the best gear + the skills, pretty much farming the rest of the playerbase and it will over time shrink the playerbase down to this core. (already some evidence of this can be seen with activity early/late wipe.

If they intend to have no wipes when the game is "ready", then they really need to have some system to foster new playerbase into the game.

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jivix

I think it might be good to have a PMC-only cooperative PvE mode with roaming player scavs (simulated) in addition to the normal bot scavs, that go around and collect loot so you still have to compete (or maybe loot just disappears from containers that they are near the longer they spend time there). It would be nearly as hard as PvP and would still require an internet connection/anti-cheat, but the difference is that you wouldn't run into 5-man squads of fully armored level 20+ players (and/or hackers of course).

I don't really care about losing my gear, if I took it out I plan to lose it, but hackers just teleporting to me to take a valuable item I just picked up really rubs me the wrong way. It's less painful than DayZ because it doesn't take hours to get geared, but it is painful nonetheless. I'm not disappointed when I die to a skilled player or me making a stupid mistake by jumping into a room full of scav bots.

I was also reading afgan's post:

On 6/29/2020 at 8:30 AM, afgan_ said:

This maybe the case, but even according to Nikita there is too much of PVP in game. What he says is that we playing the game wrong. PMCs are not suppose to automatically kill each other and there should be positive Fried or Foe identification before the fight. At very least BEAR vs. BEAR (or USEC) fight should not happen normally and are considered "friendly fire". That is not something I say, that is literally what they looking to achieve in future with "carma system".

I'd love to see a karma system, but I get the feeling it will not stop PvP unless it has a big impact. A lot of players start shooting from a distance too far to identify a person. The problem is that every single character you come across is a threat to you and your equipment, sometimes even your own squad mates are a hazard! I think treating friendly fire differently is a solution other games use because it works, but of course it is less realistic.

Map awareness is always a problem in these kinds of shooters. I think all maps should be at least partially randomized to prevent the speed running that reduces the fun for everyone (nobody likes risking everything to go into an area that's already empty). To that I'd recommend either respawning loot, some individual-specific loot so you don't have to leave empty-handed, or randomize the loot locations so players have to equally spend time looking.

 

 

 

Edited by jivix
improving clarity

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