Jump to content
peamilk

Remove FIR

Recommended Posts

peamilk
Posted (edited)

Before the wipe, allowing secure items to be sold on the flea market made it possible for newbies to enjoy the game and still make money. If hatchet-runners are the concern, just decrease the spawn rates on rare items. FIR makes it almost impossible for low-levels to complete quests or make money without stripping all enjoyment from the game. Now, the only way to make progress is to rat and try to desperately avoid sweaties knowing anything found will almost certainly be rendered useless.

I understand the game is still in development but using that as an excuse to avoid addressing the elephant in the room is not fair to anyone who has purchased the game. In selling a product, especially one still in development and as expensive as EoD, Battlestate has a responsibility to acknowledge consumer concern. Wasn't the perk of EoD the extra cells? What are we supposed to use them for now, five more crickents we can trade to the therapist?

Edited by peamilk
Not good enough
  • Sad 9
  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Elvis3000

Yes ,Please remove the hole fleamarket. it was much bettter without this gay thing...

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nealhor

FiR so bad remove it!

  • Like 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyflashde
vor 24 Minuten schrieb peamilk:

Before the wipe, allowing secure items to be sold on the flea market made it possible for newbies to enjoy the game and still make money.

It still does.

Just that you sell your stuff to the traders if you die and only on the fleamarket if you survive.

Even if you sell to traders a full gamma will net you like 150K on average.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
opiat3
39 minutes ago, peamilk said:

Before the wipe, allowing secure items to be sold on the flea market made it possible for newbies to enjoy the game and still make money. If hatchet-runners are the concern, just decrease the spawn rates on rare items. FIR makes it almost impossible for low-levels to complete quests or make money without stripping all enjoyment from the game. Now, the only way to make progress is to rat and try to desperately avoid sweaties knowing anything found will almost certainly be rendered useless.

I understand the game is still in development but using that as an excuse to avoid addressing the elephant in the room is not fair to anyone who has purchased the game. In selling a product, especially one still in development and as expensive as EoD, Battlestate has a responsibility to acknowledge consumer concern. Wasn't the perk of EoD the extra cells? What are we supposed to use them for now, five more crickents we can trade to the therapist?

So, Bsg should pay attention to the consumer concern right? but only yours or whoever thinks like you, right? the others should not have the right of having Bsg worried about the consumer concern... it looks to me that you dont understand that this is in development.

 And what does the EOD "perk" has you call it got anything to do with the FIR changes? or you just wanted to talk crap about BSG and could not remember of anything else?

  • Like 2
  • Cold 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
afgan_
6 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

the others should not have the right of having Bsg worried about the consumer concern...

And what is your concern then? FIR flea was to address RMTs and failed, because it simple does not solve the issue. Survive status was there to address hatchlings... which is bizarre in my view as they do not impact the game for anyone except themselves. The only issue which was highlighted by hatchlings was static expensive items spaws and that is not the issue with hatchling "playstyle" more of broken game design feature which can be abused.

The in in any issue is founding and dealing with cause, not the symptoms. What BSG did with changes in 12.6 they introduced several solution which only addresses symptoms and with massive collateral damage for genuine players who played fairly, yet none which addresses the underlying causes.

In summary - what is you argument? It seems you attacking the strawman here...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordBambiThird

I agree, That sh*t needs to go.
Opiat3 is just here to argue, he has no real reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordBambiThird
1 hour ago, skyflashde said:

It still does.

Just that you sell your stuff to the traders if you die and only on the fleamarket if you survive.

Even if you sell to traders a full gamma will net you like 150K on average.

If it doesn't effect your playstyle whats your problem with it being reverted?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saws_n_Sins

I think they just need to make quests don't have to have the "FIR" status.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk
36 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

So, Bsg should pay attention to the consumer concern right? but only yours or whoever thinks like you, right? the others should not have the right of having Bsg worried about the consumer concern... it looks to me that you dont understand that this is in development.

 And what does the EOD "perk" has you call it got anything to do with the FIR changes? or you just wanted to talk crap about BSG and could not remember of anything else?

According to Twitch, EFT dropped from 200K to 30K viewers this month, and majority of the player base has failed to see how introducing FIR improved the game.

Risk =/- reward. Hatchet running rarely pays off, especially for low-levels, and the chances are, you're likely to be killed before finding anything better than measuring tapes and matches. Like I said, if that is the concern, just make spawn rates rarer to make hatchet running less advantageous.

Before the patch, at least secure items allowed you to upgrade and/or were worth enough on the flea market to ensure you could afford a helmet before entering into raid. Now, LLs grind to level up, grind to complete quests, and grind raid after raid in the hope at least one successful extract will make the last six hours worth it.

As for what EoD perk has to do with FIR, isn't it obvious? A LEDX is currently worth 2.5 mil on the flea market and 300K to the therapist. If you can't see how this gives sweaties an unfair advantage, I don't really know what to tell you.

4 minutes ago, Saws_n_Sins said:

I think they just need to make quests don't have to have the "FIR" status.

At the very least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyflashde
Posted (edited)
vor 25 Minuten schrieb LordBambiThird:

If it doesn't effect your playstyle whats your problem with it being reverted?

The problem is that the whole design of this game does not work if they remove FiR.

The game is supposed to have an economy where you just cannot buy most of the things because they are rare.

In fact, the fleamarket should be removed in total because it ruins more than one aspect of this game.

Let me add that they obviously cant remove it without fixing all the other problems. So they have to do it at the same time, not right NOW.

Edited by skyflashde
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk
1 hour ago, skyflashde said:

It still does.

Just that you sell your stuff to the traders if you die and only on the fleamarket if you survive.

Even if you sell to traders a full gamma will net you like 150K on average.

I know how the mechanic works. A LEDX is currently worth 2.5 mil on the flea market and 300K to the therapist.

The number of hackers have increased (on AU servers anyway), and between trying not to get tapped through a wall by some c*nt running walls and trying to hide from sweaties who's ammo will eat through your lvl 1 rape-proof panties, low-levels just aren't making enough money to a., upgrade their hideout, b., complete quests, c., afford competitive gear and d., heal between raids.

Idk if you're running hacks like our boy LANDMVRK but rats like me just can't survive long enough to find anything more than measuring tapes, matches and crickents etc., as mentioned above.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
afgan_

The only issue of pre 12.6 Flea Market was Trader/Flea market speculation. There was simple solution for it - make a "Trader" marker meaning one cannot buy ammo from Prapor and resell on Flea market, or One cannot buy 200 labs cards and resell them to the market at 30% more when they runout from Therapist. This whole issue had nothing to do with FIR.

The second "issue/non-issue really" were hatchlings and the supposed solution was that you need to "Survive" the raid to have save FIR. Again real issue is the static spawns for expensive items simply introducing proper random (or as they call dynamic) looting tables would have removed any advantage from hatchings and would have (even more than now) only disadvantaged hatchlings. 

Both individually were bad solution, but combined they are clusterduck! Adding on top stupid quest requirements for FIR items which should never be the case and we have very annoying progression. Quest at all should never require tradeable items... ever - they should require only the quest items. Example instead of 6x60 mags it should require to go to ZB-016 and find "box with mags" which appears in your quest inventory - like "finding shipment of graphic cards", instead of requiring 8 spark plugs and 4 car batteries it should require "box with car parts from Old Gas Station". Instead of requiring 3 "flash driver" it should require "check refugees body for flash drive in the tent" etc.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyflashde
vor 3 Minuten schrieb peamilk:

low-levels just aren't making enough money to a., upgrade their hideout, b., complete quests, c., afford competitive gear and d., heal between raids.

Idk if you're running hacks like our boy LANDMVRK but rats like me just can't survive long enough to find anything more than measuring tapes, matches and crickents etc., as mentioned above.

Thats just wrong. I play severe rat style as well and I go pistoling in reserve all the time, bringing out at least 100K on average, probably more. Look at the map where you need to go for loot and then it will work just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk
19 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

The problem is that the whole design of this game does not work if they remove FiR.

The game is supposed to have an economy where you just cannot buy most of the things because they are rare.

In fact, the fleamarket should be removed in total because it ruins more than one aspect of this game.

Then the obvious solution is to just decrease the spawn rates on rare items.

When a LEDX is worth 2.5 mil on the flea market but only 300K to the therapist, it poses the question, why bother giving players a secure container at all? A 2.2 mil difference makes a rare item sold to dealers virtually worthless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk
13 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

Thats just wrong. I play severe rat style as well and I go pistoling in reserve all the time, bringing out at least 100K on average, probably more. Look at the map where you need to go for loot and then it will work just fine.

At least you can afford a pistol, bro.

My mate Precvm played for six hours tonight running hatchet after hatchet because a few unlucky runs lost him his gear beforehand and with t&c ensuring you're a walking scav magnet, he couldn't survive long enough to make going in-raid worthwhile.

It's easy to say, check the map, learn scav spawn points, git gud etc., but what are you supposed to do when you're a LL hatchet/semi-naked pistol runner trying to take on a lvl 50 four-man camping exits and quest markers? Not everyone is god.

I never said it was impossible, just that FIR has stripped a lot of the enjoyment from the game for a lot of people in making it such a grind to make progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tobiassolem

The flea market and find in raid-mechanics are under evaluation, and by no means in a "final state". However, as some people mentioned, the idea behind the FiR was to prolong progression in the game, making people actually have to find certain items on their own.

Personally I think this is an issue with how quests are done, being generally focused on grinding (finding specific loot), the fact that they made this harder through FiR does not change the fact that the core issue (imo) is the quest design. If quests more relied on player ingenuity and skill, rather than player patience - I would not care at all about the FiR-requirements for quests.

As for FiR things being a requirement for flea market, I think was mainly done to stop the blatant profiteering by people who leveled up early to buy out traders and then resell for much higher prices on flea. I think the RMT counter is a secondary aspect, and not the guiding principle when it comes to the implementation.

Personally I think the flea market should be just that, NOT a place to find NEW never used things, but stuff that is pre-used, somewhat broken and for cheap. The fact people are selling Red Rebels and expensive cards there seems more suited for an auction mechanic.

My 2 cents.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
afgan_

@tobiassolem - well I hope that BSG devs shares your view. It seems you have noted the similar issues as I did when it comes to quest - the way they are implemented is grindy and just not great. They don't make game more hardcore or more realistic just more grindy and the FIR mechanic just made the problem more obvious.

As well as I already mentioned - profiteering was a real problem before wipe, but the FIR solution seems to have addressed it incorrectly or over the top. Basically because some were profiteering - now nobody can sell anything at all. I feel there are better solution more focused on specific problem and without wide collateral damage. At the same time this is not very surprising - as this is not the first "beta" game I played I know the changes always swings from over-done to under done and things gets constantly rebalanced. The only thing which is in my opinion is clear - current implementation of FIR only Flea Market made game worse - better solutions should be found going forward.

In terms of Flea vs. Auction - it is hard to say before we see how auction is implemented. The only thing I care about is to be able to sell bloody red key card if I ever find one... In labs a barely ever get out of the basement so using it myself vs. ~37kk profit would be idiotic idea. 

Generally, I would expect 80% if the items in flea market to be cheaper than directly from trader i.e. in line with what you said - sort of used and no longer required items market for cheap.The remaining 20% could be items which sellers do not sell or items where demand clearly is higher than supply and one is expected to pay premium over the trader prices. Sort of making it more important to level the traders or complete special quests to unlock. People should never be able to sell items directly from traders to flea without some form of punishment - be that drop in flea market rating or trader rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyflashde
vor 33 Minuten schrieb peamilk:

At least you can afford a pistol, bro.

Yes, because I make one Scav run every 15 mins. 😂

And on my Scav I have a way higher survival rate than on my PMC. Not sure how much exactly at the moment, but way above 50%.

I actually learned all the maps as Scav before I even played PMC.

And made millions doing that.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk

Another solution to prevent profiteering could be to completely switch the roles of dealers and the flea market, and make it more beneficial to sell items to dealers than to offer them for sale on the flea market.

Theoretically, a price could be set for all items sold to dealers, say, 32 mil for red labs key cards and 2.5 mil for LEDXs sold to the therapist etc., and make the flea market the place for players to trade items or sell them for a price below market value. To keep the mechanics in place that allow certain items to be traded only once reaching a certain level, conceptually, players could have to reach a specific level with whichever dealer before being able to sell them specific items. Players could sell items below market value on the flea market at any point between reaching lvl 10 and obtaining the level required by a dealer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
afgan_

@skyflashde - and you think this is the way game meant to be played? You think that BSG wants to achieve this... that people are afarid to play PMC and just pays SCAV? Somehow I doubt it...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peamilk
7 minutes ago, skyflashde said:

Yes, because I make one Scav run every 15 mins. 😂

And on my Scav I have a way higher survival rate than on my PMC. Not sure how much exactly at the moment, but way above 50%.

I actually learned all the maps as Scav before I even played PMC.

And made millions doing that.

Not everyone has the time to do a scav run every 20 minutes, and from those that do, I'm not sure how many are able to successfully take on the sweaties and/or hackers that tend to play in teams of two or more with whatever random gear they've been assigned.

Lately, player scavs have been generating pistols and AKs with generic ammo. Sometimes I'll spawn with a cap and a single bandage in a bank robber too if I'm lucky. Luck and skill undeniably contribute to the likelihood of a successful extraction but most LLs, especially those with luck like mine, will spawn in and get popped within minutes with little to no exp and little to no loot.

I also feel that older players already have an advantage over newbies. They've had time to learn the maps, loot spawns, spawn points etc., as well as familiarize themselves with EFT's unique play styles. FIR only makes it so that new players have to grind harder to even get to the point of being able to compete with HLs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyflashde
vor 31 Minuten schrieb afgan_:

@skyflashde - and you think this is the way game meant to be played? You think that BSG wants to achieve this... that people are afarid to play PMC and just pays SCAV? Somehow I doubt it...  

In fact they created Scav for exactly this.

Personally I would replace Scavs with some better mechanic, but it is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Badhabit666

the FIR is a great mechanic, here is why:

people cant use trader level advantage/weapon modding to get infinite roubles anymore, this alone heavily outweighs the negative QoL impact in my opinion.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Detective_Pr0nt

Honestly at first I hated what they had done in the latest updates to FiR, but now I've kinda grown to like it. It really encourages you to actually buy things from the traders or use things you've scavenged off of raids instead of just buying high end gear off of the flea market, thus giving an actual feel of progression to the game. So far, I'm at lvl 15 and have only been using weapons that I pull off of other players in raid, which has really been a blast! It feels a lot like the Subsistence missions from MGSV:TPP.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2