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Reviving with defibrillator


Ultrajboss

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Ultrajboss

I think it would be a cool idea if you had a chance to revive a fallen teammate with a defibrillator. not a 100% chance to revive someone like a 20% chance or something like that and it has an animation of it happening. i think this would be a cool way of getting a second chance

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Kthelmir

And what gives you the idea that a defibrilator would be able to revive someone whos heart has stopped beating? Also will the defibrilator also refill the cardiovascular system with volume?

A defibrilator is only used in very specific cases like arythmia. If someones heart stops you have to start compressions and administer volume if hes bleeding out.

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Ultrajboss

Defibrillators are devices that restore a normal heartbeat by sending an electric pulse or shock to the heart. They are used to prevent or correct an arrhythmia, a heartbeat that is uneven or that is too slow or too fast. Defibrillators can also restore the heart's beating if the heart suddenly stops. so if someones heart has stopped beating defibs are used to restore a normal heartbeat so your first question makes no sense. and it would not restore them to full health they would have to heal or fix fractures

 

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TechoverMana

Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea at all for a game like Tarkov. That can stay in L4D where it belongs. It's not realistic, since even if it was used to solve the very specific issue of arrhythmia and/or ventricular fibrillation (defibrillator won't do anything about an actually stopped heart/ flatline, that needs CPR), depending on what killed them, it wouldn't help (defibrillator won't put brains in working order back in a skull), or even if it did, they'd be in absolutely no shape to fight, they probably wouldn't even regain consciousness. IRL if things have gotten so bad they need to defib you, you probably need to be in the ICU and need a very long, serious hospital stay.

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TechoverMana
2 minutes ago, Ultrajboss said:

so if someones heart has stopped beating defibs are used to restore a normal heartbeat

No, that's a misconception. If your heart actually straight up stops/flatlines (Asystole), they won't use a defibrillator, they'd start CPR or heart massage, and that might only get you back up to being into a 'shockable' heart beat with the defib. On top of that, if you actually flatline, you've only got like a 25% chance of even surviving in a first world medical facility, it's a very poor prognosis, and even if you live you might never be the same because no heartbeat means no oxygen to the brain and brain damage and brain death can come pretty quick in a matter of minutes with no blood flow. There's no way you'd just wake up and try to run and gun again. That's movie magic.

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Kthelmir
22 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

No, that's a misconception. If your heart actually straight up stops/flatlines (Asystole), they won't use a defibrillator, they'd start CPR or heart massage, and that might only get you back up to being into a 'shockable' heart beat with the defib. On top of that, if you actually flatline, you've only got like a 25% chance of even surviving in a first world medical facility, it's a very poor prognosis, and even if you live you might never be the same because no heartbeat means no oxygen to the brain and brain damage and brain death can come pretty quick in a matter of minutes with no blood flow. There's no way you'd just wake up and try to run and gun again. That's movie magic.

This! Also i am a Paramedic.

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kennyream66
1 hour ago, Ultrajboss said:

Defibrillators are devices that restore a normal heartbeat by sending an electric pulse or shock to the heart. They are used to prevent or correct an arrhythmia, a heartbeat that is uneven or that is too slow or too fast. Defibrillators can also restore the heart's beating if the heart suddenly stops. so if someones heart has stopped beating defibs are used to restore a normal heartbeat so your first question makes no sense. and it would not restore them to full health they would have to heal or fix fractures

 

Amazing idea however breathing life back into people who have died to head eyes all day long doesn't sound realistic. They want this game to be as REAL as possible. That's why they allow you to bunny hop, Fragment bullets often, hit people in the eyes more often than any other part of the body....you know all real poo.

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On 7/13/2020 at 2:17 AM, TechoverMana said:

It's not realistic

And reattaching lost limbs with thread and pliers while crouching in the bushes is realistic? Or removing fracture in 5 seconds?

 

For real guys, if you're using 'realistic' argument, be, well, realistic yourself. Games are using something we called 'mechanics' and those mechanics are imitating/emulating some things, with more or less realism, games operate creating some sort of 'agreement' between the game and players. So if somehow we agree that removing fracture in few seconds is fine, then lets not pull out medical journals to discredit something else, because we don't like the idea. You said it would be a 'magic move' to get up and fight again. And again with fracture, or blood loss or just a regular GUNSHOT wound, continuing to fight is realistic? Seriously, don't be that hypocritical.

 

And defibrillators sound like an interesting idea. There should be something to not make them OP, like, for example, you need to start reviving your teammate 30 seconds (max) after his 'death'.

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ACuddlyBadger

No. There should be permanent in raid consequences for getting shot up. Otherwise tarkov is no different from an arcade shooter.

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TechoverMana
17 hours ago, Nomadd said:

And reattaching lost limbs with thread and pliers while crouching in the bushes is realistic? Or removing fracture in 5 seconds?

17 hours ago, Nomadd said:

So if somehow we agree that removing fracture in few seconds is fine,

Here's the thing: I absolutely don't agree with that.

Hi, we haven't met, otherwise you'd know that I wasn't a fan of any of this garbage, especially not with the recent patch notes that are doubling down on this nonsense.

I think the surgery kits were a mistake that should have never even gotten past the concept phase.

Painkillers shouldn't allow you to walk on a broken leg.

Broken/Blacked legs should force you to prone and crawl. A splint at best would allow you to limp if it was just one leg. Painkillers should just clear up the audio visual effects, and that's it.

A broken/blacked arm means you need to use a gun one handed or switch to pistol, two broken/blacked arms means you can't even raise your gun, not just ADS but where it'd be like pointed at the ground, and you couldn't operate doors or loot anymore.

Bandages should only stop minor bleeds, but I think blacked limbs should cause uncontrolled bleeding (rapid too, like 10 HP per second untreated, only gives you like 30 seconds before you'd pass out/die) that can only be fixed with tourniquets, and obviously these only work with legs and arms. Blacked out stomach should just mean you're bleeding out in a minute or so. Anything that blacks out the head or torso for any reason should be an instant kill.
I don't even think meds should restore lost HP, or only recover a small amount of the lost HP. If you get shot, you'll never fully recover. And it should be more like the CMS kit in terms of how long it takes. A bandage should be more like 10-15 seconds instead of 3. Painkillers should have a time delay as well unless they're injections like Morphine.

Along with this there should also be CNS and Cardiovascular hitboxes, namely ones for the brain, spine, heart and major blood vessels that cause either instant death, or unavoidable death where there's no treatment for it. You're dead but just haven't keeled over yet.

And that's just on the medical system, but I think that'd cover it at least for now. Yeah, I'm very much in favor of a much, much harder, and much more realistic medical and health system.

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1 hour ago, TechoverMana said:

Here's the thing: I absolutely don't agree with that.

Hi, we haven't met, otherwise you'd know that I wasn't a fan of any of this garbage, especially not with the recent patch notes that are doubling down on this nonsense.

I think the surgery kits were a mistake that should have never even gotten past the concept phase.

Painkillers shouldn't allow you to walk on a broken leg.

Broken/Blacked legs should force you to prone and crawl. A splint at best would allow you to limp if it was just one leg. Painkillers should just clear up the audio visual effects, and that's it.

A broken/blacked arm means you need to use a gun one handed or switch to pistol, two broken/blacked arms means you can't even raise your gun, not just ADS but where it'd be like pointed at the ground, and you couldn't operate doors or loot anymore.

Bandages should only stop minor bleeds, but I think blacked limbs should cause uncontrolled bleeding (rapid too, like 10 HP per second untreated, only gives you like 30 seconds before you'd pass out/die) that can only be fixed with tourniquets, and obviously these only work with legs and arms. Blacked out stomach should just mean you're bleeding out in a minute or so. Anything that blacks out the head or torso for any reason should be an instant kill.
I don't even think meds should restore lost HP, or only recover a small amount of the lost HP. If you get shot, you'll never fully recover. And it should be more like the CMS kit in terms of how long it takes. A bandage should be more like 10-15 seconds instead of 3. Painkillers should have a time delay as well unless they're injections like Morphine.

Along with this there should also be CNS and Cardiovascular hitboxes, namely ones for the brain, spine, heart and major blood vessels that cause either instant death, or unavoidable death where there's no treatment for it. You're dead but just haven't keeled over yet.

And that's just on the medical system, but I think that'd cover it at least for now. Yeah, I'm very much in favor of a much, much harder, and much more realistic medical and health system.

 

Okay, cool. Let me just summarize all that by saying this:

Games will NEVER be as real as, well, actual, real life. Like I said, games use mechanics to imitate something, but in the long run, game is still a game. And Tarkov is aiming at some level of realism, but it's NOT a simulator. Based on what you said you're kind of looking for something even more realistic than Tarkov, like an actual gunfight simulator. But in Tarkov some spine hit boxes, I don't know, damaged liver, collapsed lungs won't work. It's not an opinion, it's just straight up fact. Yes, this game aims at being more realistic than CoD, but it adds things like hideout, crafting, looting etc, and on the long run lets face it - it's popular on Twitch. What does it mean? Well, if you'd add realism to a point that you got a tick during a raid and died because of it, or your leg snapped and you were crawling for 30min... you think it would hold its popularity?

Look, I'm not saying your ideas are stupid, but I just think what you're suggesting would be cool for a different game, actual simulator. I'm a game designer and I've been in gaming industry for almost 10 years and let me tell you that more complicated things you're adding, more difficult it also gets for designers and programmers. It's really not easy to make separate hit boxes for each finger, spine, liver and whatever else. Plus the more complex and 'real' it gets, the less enjoyable it becomes. And yes, I know you will say 'but I would love it', but you're not the only person who plays it. There are flight simulators and much more real and complex than Microsoft Flight Simulator and those things have a few fans and remain in gaming underground.

 

Once again - games are games, trying to be real or not, they need to maintain level of enjoyment and playability. Because yes, if you add things like you suggested, game eventually would not be playable at all. And if you don't believe me, just look what Nikita recently said, that they want to make Tarkov 'as realistic as playable' not 'as realistic as possible'. Bottom line - Tarkov is still meant to be for the masses, maybe smaller than CoD, but masses nonetheless.

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Well first of all we'd need player on player healing mechanics. Players should be able to heal other players faster than they can heal themselves. And instead of a defibrillator. How about a stim of some sort like an epipen or adrenaline shot, that can revive a player only once per raid. It brings your thorax and head back to one hp. Stops bleeding and other status conditions for 60 seconds, which should be enough time to heal up. Does not unblacken other limbs though. That way we can avoid 5 man groups steamrolling us even further. 

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I think it would make sense if they added trauma. Perhaps a cardiac arrest could happen if you just break due to all the pressure. Low chance of this happening during firefights. The skill stress Resistance will make it harder for you to fall on the ground unconscious. Also, there is only an 8% chance irl for you to be saved by a defib.

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Am 13.7.2020 um 00:49 schrieb Ultrajboss:

I think it would be a cool idea if you had a chance to revive a fallen teammate with a defibrillator. not a 100% chance to revive someone like a 20% chance or something like that and it has an animation of it happening. i think this would be a cool way of getting a second chance

In the case of a headshot there is no chance if he has only lost consciousness, but yes he has to use the bleeding with a bandage first.
In real life, it takes 8 minutes for the brain to die without oxygen.
Time runs much faster in Tarkov life, so within 2 minutes he should be revived. A ventilator item for the lungs would also be helpful.

This will most likely come because there is already a defibrillator and a medic backpack. The LEDX will lose value if they make it possible, it is only suitable for children to find their veins. In Hideout you can already craft a defibrillator. That would completely change the game. That would be a real step forward if they make it possible.

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TechoverMana
On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

Games will NEVER be as real as, well, actual, real life.

Thanks Captain Obvious, I didn't think had made it to the Matrix yet where if you die in the game you die in real life.
 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

And Tarkov is aiming at some level of realism, but it's NOT a simulator.

Better tell BSG because literally the first line at on the webpage is "Escape from Tarkov is a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough."

And tell them to pull down most of the videos about the game because they're filled with things such as:

"PC exclusive first-person hardcore multiplayer battle simulator Escape from Tarkov."
"...remaining as uncompromisingly realistic and captivating as it was planned out."
"Weapons are what we love - and what are proud of, so we strive to do them as realistically as possible."
And literally them going on about how realistic it will be. All I'm asking is to stick to that, or at some point just come out and say it's all BS and let people who got duped get a refund, because it's at the point where it's becoming a flat out bait and switch.
 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

Based on what you said you're kind of looking for something even more realistic than Tarkov, like an actual gunfight simulator.

Yes, because that's what Tarkov was advertising for months and months, right out of Nikita's mouth, saying it was going to be the most realistic thing they could make, it'd be uncompromising and that it'd have 'no fiction' in it.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

But in Tarkov some spine hit boxes, I don't know, damaged liver, collapsed lungs won't work.

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

It's not an opinion, it's just straight up fact.

That is 100% an opinion, other games have these sorts of things already of hitboxes to vital regions, even breaking down to specific organs and blood vessels. You see it often in a lot of hunting games.

 And it is the exact sort of thing they should be trying to implement instead of a asinine "+5 to chest HP" for the sole purpose of removing one taps to the chest (so much for Nikita trying to 'make it more hardcore'), because of course someone should just be able to take a .308 dead center to the sternum with no armor and just be able to slap a band-aid on it in 3 seconds and be all good again. If they can have 5-6 different hitboxes for the head, surely they can add a few hitboxes for the chest for spine/heart/lungs, ect.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

Well, if you'd add realism to a point that you got a tick during a raid and died because of it, or your leg snapped and you were crawling for 30min... you think it would hold its popularity?

DayZ was pretty popular for years with these sorts of things in place, and was much less forgiving, including both the ARMA 2 mod and DayZ standalone. I've done a crawl from Elektro to Cherno on a broken leg to get to a hospital to fix it. The ARMA series it's based from has had a very healthy player base for well over a decade at this point, mostly around milsim groups that mod the game to be even more punishingly realistic, and it was already pretty much the most realistic shooter already on the market. So, yeah, I think you'd actually have quite a dedicated fanbase of people who'd embrace it precisely because it embraced those aspects and was willing to be uncompromising.
 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

but I just think what you're suggesting would be cool for a different game,

I think that 90% of the suggestions made, and most of them to 'balance' guns or meds or thermals, make things easier or make more sense for 'gamer logic' thinking, are suggestions that should belong in a different game, most of them I think are to the detriment of Tarkov.
 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

I'm a game designer and I've been in gaming industry for almost 10 years and let me tell you that more complicated things you're adding, more difficult it also gets for designers and programmers

If that was the case, they wouldn't bother adding eyes/jaw/ear/nape/top hitboxes. I'm not saying they've got to simulate every blood cell, but I don't think it's impossible to try to put hitboxes in for heart, lungs, spine, and the major blood vessels in the body, femoral artery, brachial artery, abdominal artery and vein. And you can combine these as well for simplification, the major arteries in the torso pretty much are right on top of the spine. The aorta can pretty much be included in the heart hitbox, the carotid arteries, jugular veins, and cervical spine, and windpipe can all just be combined into a 'neck vitals hitbox', and so on.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

Plus the more complex and 'real' it gets, the less enjoyable it becomes.

Now that is absolutely untrue, it's just blatantly on its face untrue.

On 7/15/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nomadd said:

just look what Nikita recently said, that they want to make Tarkov 'as realistic as playable' not 'as realistic as possible'.

And I'd say that is just a fancy way of saying "Bait and switch", and frankly then it's time for refunds for those who got baited, and for them to just pull the advertising mentioning it and to start saying "quasi-realistic" "semi-realistic" "Diet Coke realism" "Non-alcoholic beer realism", whatever, or just removing mention of being a realistic game, since it's just no longer the case.

Edited by TechoverMana
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TechoverMana
21 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

I didn't think had made it

Should be 'we had made it', sorry for the typo, among several I'm sure but that seemed egregious.

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14 hours ago, TechoverMana said:

Thanks Captain Obvious, I didn't think had made it to the Matrix yet where if you die in the game you die in real life.

Well, I think if we have to drop discussion to sarcastic comments, the discussion is over.

 

And I still stand with my point - even if Tarkov site says 'simulator' there are simulators and simulators. Like I said before - look at flight simulators. There are simulators that have much different level of depth and complexity. And both; more and less complex are still called 'simulators'.

14 hours ago, TechoverMana said:

That is 100% an opinion, other games have these sorts of things already of hitboxes to vital regions, even breaking down to specific organs and blood vessels. You see it often in a lot of hunting games.

And is there a hunting game that's as popular as Tarkov? That's a fair question, I don't follow hunting games.

 

Look, they're doing what they want, Nikita said it'll be as realistic as playable, so it's very unlikely they will remove splints and add hit boxes on every separate vein. Sorry that you had different expectations, but still you're operating in a convention where splints fix fractures and whether you like it or not, if you play you accept that, so if you accept that you can't use 'realism' argument on something that would add similar level of 'realism' to splints.

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BlooDxHound
On 7/14/2020 at 9:27 PM, Nomadd said:

And reattaching lost limbs with thread and pliers while crouching in the bushes is realistic? Or removing fracture in 5 seconds?

 

For real guys, if you're using 'realistic' argument, be, well, realistic yourself. Games are using something we called 'mechanics' and those mechanics are imitating/emulating some things, with more or less realism, games operate creating some sort of 'agreement' between the game and players. So if somehow we agree that removing fracture in few seconds is fine, then lets not pull out medical journals to discredit something else, because we don't like the idea. You said it would be a 'magic move' to get up and fight again. And again with fracture, or blood loss or just a regular GUNSHOT wound, continuing to fight is realistic? Seriously, don't be that hypocritical.

 

And defibrillators sound like an interesting idea. There should be something to not make them OP, like, for example, you need to start reviving your teammate 30 seconds (max) after his 'death'.

So your argument is that because there are some unrealistic elements in Tarkov which there will have to be like being able to re-enter a raid after dying, and things like bunnyhopping which will be fixed in the future Tarkov should not be realistic at all? Tarkov is a hardcore realistic shooter and it is SUPPOSED to be realistic. This is not fortnite, defibrillators will make killing enemies pointless because unless you rush their teammates straight away they can just keep reviving their teammate.

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18 minutes ago, BlooDxHound said:

So your argument is that because there are some unrealistic elements in Tarkov which there will have to be like being able to re-enter a raid after dying, and things like bunnyhopping which will be fixed in the future Tarkov should not be realistic at all?

What you're doing is something that's called a straw man. So please, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

My point is - there's a convention in every game. In Tarkov world you can heal fractures in few seconds, among other things. So defibrillators are not that big of a stretch, besides, you're constantly using one PMC anyway, if you die or leave the raid, so... are you even dying? If your PMC is really dying then I guess you should wipe your account after every death... I'm simply understanding and operating within game's convention. When someone is making point that defibrillator is this and that in real life, is like saying Call of Duty should add separate wounds to each body part. It's not game's convention.

 

You don't like defibrillators? Fine, geez, I don't have any power to add them anyway, I'm just expressing my opinion that 'realism' argument is a poor one. Saying the game is supposed to be a hardcore one and defibrillators would negate that is a better one, a MUCH better one. Because for the thousandth time - if we bring 'realism' to discussion, there's pretty much nothing that's really 'realistic' when it comes to health system. Game is trying to make mechanics that would imitate some sort of realism, while maintaining also level of playability. Realism, without making the game unplayable.

 

 

PS: If BSG wanted to make this game as 'realistic as possible', wouldn't like fractures, blood loss system, consider that as not realistic enough etc, would they add something like CMS? Which is a rather recent addition...

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TechoverMana
42 minutes ago, Nomadd said:

Sorry that you had different expectations

It's not different expectations, it's literally what they'd said in their developers reports. How is it "Sorry you had different expectations" When Nikita literally says, quote "uncompromisingly realistic" and "no fiction" as selling points.

That'd be like me advertising seltzer water, getting people to buy into it, and then handing you a Cola because it's 'more fun and popular than seltzer", and saying "Sorry your had different expectations". Yeah, another way of phrasing that is I wasn't expected get falsely advertised into a bait and switch operation.

42 minutes ago, BlooDxHound said:

Tarkov is a hardcore realistic shooter and it is SUPPOSED to be realistic.

Clearly not anymore, with the movement getting reworked to be even more run and gun, and with stims that'll give you a flat out 20% damage reduction (aka, straight up magic potions/nanomachines). I used to joke about Nikita deciding the game needed lasers and exoskeletons to make it more 'fun', but frankly, it's on the table at this point. Jetpacks aren't really out of the question if you can get Metal Gear nanomachines in the game.

 

34 minutes ago, Nomadd said:

My point is - there's a convention in every game.

And those can change, obviously easier if you're Pestily who can just cut a video about Mosin's being broken (they weren't), and have Nikita get on that by the next patch. In theory, that's what the forum is supposed to be for, for feedback on how the game should change for the better.
But based on that logic, we should still have been able to keyspam meds like in the alpha and .5 and regenerate like wolverine, slap bullets into magazines in a second, gamma full guns that you could take out and put back in, no post raid healing, no separate head hitboxes, infinite effective carry weight, ect, old flea market mechanics before FIR, because those were the conventions at that time, and if you thought "Maybe we should only be able to heal one limb at a time", then according to you, you were playing the wrong game because, well, you played, and you have to accept those conventions and it's pointless to try to change it (especially if it's in line with what was originally advertised)

 

41 minutes ago, Nomadd said:

if we bring 'realism' to discussion, there's pretty much nothing that's really 'realistic' when it comes to health system.

And that's a problem to fix, not something to just bend over and accept.

42 minutes ago, Nomadd said:

Realism, without making the game unplayable

Realism isn't mutually exclusive with playable, that's one of the biggest, and frankly, thoughtless and simple minded memes around.

44 minutes ago, Nomadd said:

If BSG wanted to make this game as 'realistic as possible', wouldn't like fractures, blood loss system, consider that as not realistic enough etc, would they add something like CMS? Which is a rather recent addition...

And thus my recent complaints about such a thing, because the surgery/CMS kits not only not realistic, but it's not hardcore at all. You can't say you're making the game more hardcore, while adding things that any way you slice it, make it more casual and easier. Again, Nikita's talking out both sides of his mouth. "Make game more hardcore" "But do these things that do the exact opposite of what I said.

 It's not like things have been added to the game, and then removed later because either they didn't work or were bad ideas, or even just ones people had problems with (Maps allowing you to select spawns for example was in for like 2 patches, then removed, for example). 

And I mean, yeah, if that's your deal, whatever. But at least don't pretend you're doing anything but just wanting to what was supposed to be a realistic, hardcore game, and just wanting to see it turn into an arcadey and casual game for casual audiences, anymore than if you'd managed to find yourself playing DCS and going "You know what, this would be more fun if it was like Ace Combat, make DCS like Ace Combat", and then flooding the forums with complaints about how the game needs to be more 'balanced', more forgiving, less punishing, and generally, more gamey.

 

1 hour ago, Nomadd said:

is like saying Call of Duty should add separate wounds to each body part

Call of Duty, Battlefield, whatever, never, ever, ever claimed they were even attempting something realistic. There was never any claims of it being a simulator (unlike Tarkov where it's still mentioned in the front page, all over the advertising, dev reports, ect), never made claims that it'd be uncompromisingly realistic (unlike Tarkov), and so on.

Basically, COD and Battlefield weren't falsely advertising about their game for a solid year before letting people pick it up, and then bait and switch them after they had the money in their pockets.

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TheHappyMile

Tarkov not being a combat-medic-simulator does not mean that we should throw everything away.

medical background aside - it would be completly gamebreaking. The more people in your squad, the more OP you'd be - not compareable to advantages now.

 

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SCvTyson
On 7/13/2020 at 1:08 AM, Kthelmir said:

And what gives you the idea that a defibrilator would be able to revive someone whos heart has stopped beating? Also will the defibrilator also refill the cardiovascular system with volume?

A defibrilator is only used in very specific cases like arythmia. If someones heart stops you have to start compressions and administer volume if hes bleeding out.

same idea as me running with my friend and suddenly I see him teleport. Or same idea as any bum living on a street for X years can shoot me in the head from 500m. Or same idea as someone who supplies food wants 30 cans of touchonka or condense milk for bunch of keys. Or same idea as I suddenly pass out when out on a walk because I got disconnected. Its a game dude. 

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33 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

Call of Duty, Battlefield, whatever, never, ever, ever claimed they were even attempting something realistic. There was never any claims of it being a simulator (unlike Tarkov where it's still mentioned in the front page, all over the advertising, dev reports, ect), never made claims that it'd be uncompromisingly realistic (unlike Tarkov), and so on.

Basically, COD and Battlefield weren't falsely advertising about their game for a solid year before letting people pick it up, and then bait and switch them after they had the money in their pockets.

Still seems like what you don't understand is that this is still JUST a game. And simulators have (really) different level of depth and complexity. There's a thing like Microsoft Flight Simulator and when I was in university studying game design we've seen flight simulators that made MFS look like a casual game and people that LOVED flight simulators couldn't make anything in those programs. Because that was beyond being a game simulator, those were actual simulators, that will never ever be popular. And yes, you seem to have different expectations than what BSG means. You talk about making game as real as possible at any cost, while BSG (clearly) has something different in mind and now you're acting like you've been lied to.

37 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

And I mean, yeah, if that's your deal, whatever. But at least don't pretend you're doing anything but just wanting to what was supposed to be a realistic, hardcore game, and just wanting to see it turn into an arcadey and casual game for casual audiences, anymore than if you'd managed to find yourself playing DCS and going "You know what, this would be more fun if it was like Ace Combat, make DCS like Ace Combat", and then flooding the forums with complaints about how the game needs to be more 'balanced', more forgiving, less punishing, and generally, more gamey.

And you don't understand anything about game making process. Plus what you described is exactly what you're doing. You've read 'simulator' and suddenly you thought Tarkov will imitate life and when you get shot you will have a bullet hole and will have to extract it and there won't be arcade med kits etc etc. Sorry, but like I said a thousand times - you had different expectations than what BSG is actually making. Simulator does NOT mean it mechanics will imitate real life 1:1.

47 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

But based on that logic, we should still have been able to keyspam meds like in the alpha and .5 and regenerate like wolverine, slap bullets into magazines in a second, gamma full guns that you could take out and put back in, no post raid healing, no separate head hitboxes, infinite effective carry weight, ect, old flea market mechanics before FIR, because those were the conventions at that time, and if you thought "Maybe we should only be able to heal one limb at a time", then according to you, you were playing the wrong game because, well, you played, and you have to accept those conventions and it's pointless to try to change it (especially if it's in line with what was originally advertised)

Do you understand a difference between alpha, placeholder and convention? Convention didn't change from alpha, at all. Convention is to make wounds more realistic than arcade shooters, but not change into a surgeon simulator. Come on, if you don't see it than I can't really help you or add much more to what I've already said. BSG won't make a mechanic where you get shot in the leg and you have to sit down for 10min, extract the bullet, bandage a wound and limp or crawl to the extract for another 30min. For a few reasons - 'as realistic as playable' and I think we could honestly end discussion on this quote, because that shows the level of realism they want to make. And it's not the realism you expect. Another reason is complexity of coding and design and last one - Twitch. Look at how Tarkov is popular.

57 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

It's not different expectations, it's literally what they'd said in their developers reports. How is it "Sorry you had different expectations" When Nikita literally says, quote "uncompromisingly realistic" and "no fiction" as selling points.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AntediluvianBoldBeanUWot

 

45 minutes ago, SCvTyson said:

 Its a game dude. 

Thank you

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DaveJohnson

When they add the buddy heal system maybe well see on field resuscitation. Plus the only cases you should be able to be revived is if you get hit and die from a arm, leg and stomach injury. But what stopping a scav from double tapping a downed player :)

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