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Redangelguts

Revising bullet damage; better hit registration! better server performance! less desync! more stable bullet damage! better damage to vitals! better hollowpoint/flesh damage! All in one(ish) simple(TM) fix :)

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Redangelguts

After trying to understand bullet damage and researching (mostly NoFAMs tables to a deep degree) how damage is applied in game, I've come to understand that the current model takes a lot of server performance and does not give an optimal representation of reality and vitals. I've mentioned this in some nebulous manner many times but here I'm trying to reform it and please everyone after much helpful feedback.

My proposition is to remove the concept of a lethal "Thorax" and replace it with merely a non-lethal "Chest" hitbox with only 70 HP like the stomach, essentially a stomach extension. The head hitbox would then be extended into a Head/Spine hitbox that would continue down to the groin area. The key being that the spine hitbox would be merely only ONE OR TWO PIXELS WIDE, allowing larger calibres to more easily hit this vital. A possibility would be making this hitbox like an inverted pyramid to replicate the heart, although the idea is to keep it extra small to easily and without extra unnecessarily transmitted data (notoriously causing desync and bad hit reg and strange clumps of shots coming in on many engages). The reason I don't recommend to make it a full heart is due to ribs causing yawing and blockage of their own, reducing calculations but increasing realism as much as possible with a single hitbox check.

The kicker? REMOVING the already chronically bugged fragmentation concept as noted by NoFAMs testing to be represented with the small spine hitbox. From here we would tweak bullets to do generally what they currently do, but allowing people to purposefully and realistically shoot middle mass when they are sure their bullets will penetrate. Flesh rounds would generally gain a boost in flesh damage as a trade-off for their lost fragmentation, adding that percent to base damage but still forcing the "flesh armor" concept that seemed to ruin fragmentation to begin with, making the percent concept rolled into base penetration and removing fragmentation needlessly being tacked on.

It would look something like this:


                35    Head/Spine
70 Right Arm                    70 Left Arm
                70    Chest
70 Right Leg                    70 Left Leg


A possible bonus method of protecting the spine would be to give it a 30 base armor like flesh currently has but only for the spine not the head. (As I believe that penalty is much lesser or non-existent for the head as is.)

Damage calculation for most bullet types would remain in the same approximate TTK, with missing the spine being slightly more hits (1 or 2 more on average) and dead on perfect spine shots one hitting, provided they penetrate.

I have some minor experience with development and I know just how taxing the concept of fragmentation is, and to remove it would greatly help especially in large high RPM firefights and shotgun battles, requiring many (usually needless) fragmentation calculations.

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LemonPickles

I think this might make the game feel more random and unpredictable if there is a 1-2 pixel wide lethal hitbox. Would this just be on the back of the player model, inside, or extend front to back from the head to groin? Also, how big is 1-2 pixels? The amount of pixels you see on a target varies drastically between screen resolutions and the distance from you and your target.

Additionally, I don't understand how a new small hitbox would change how much data is transmitted. I could see how it changes how much data needs to be processed, and I would think a more complex hitbox like this would be more taxing to calculate.

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chrisragnar

Yeah, no to a spine hitbox. It's a game first and foremost. And I don't think making anatomicaly correct hitboxes will add anything to the game. It might sound all fancy and tickle your realism boner, but it would probably just make deaths feel even more random and pointless. 

I think a simpler system would work better to improve gameplay.

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LasseNielsen

Sorry to say it, but BSG is planning to make it a lot more complex then what he is talking about 🙂

 

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Redangelguts
On 7/14/2020 at 9:25 AM, LasseNielsen said:

Sorry to say it, but BSG is planning to make it a lot more complex then what he is talking about 🙂

mmm any link to details on this?

On 7/14/2020 at 8:52 AM, chrisragnar said:

Yeah, no to a spine hitbox. It's a game first and foremost. And I don't think making anatomicaly correct hitboxes will add anything to the game. It might sound all fancy and tickle your realism boner, but it would probably just make deaths feel even more random and pointless. 

I think a simpler system would work better to improve gameplay.

you're right the hitbox creates more randomness but the fact that it replaces fragmentation means it should generally perform better

On 7/14/2020 at 8:13 AM, LemonPickles said:

Would this just be on the back of the player model, inside, or extend front to back from the head to groin? Also, how big is 1-2 pixels?

Additionally, I don't understand how a new small hitbox would change how much data is transmitted. I could see how it changes how much data needs to be processed, and I would think a more complex hitbox like this would be more taxing to calculate.

true, hard to represent ingame size... say a few centimetres? The idea is to represent a full severance of spine. Approximate spine position makes sense to me since people can twist out their body a bit to make it harder to hit, also like mentioned above, taking out fragmentation would balance out performance and then some...

...regardless I think at this point after hearing the new patch notes I'm probably barking up the wrong tree... the entire concept of wanting hardcore in main servers seems to be out the window...

my new push is getting hardcore servers made for this kind of thing... EFT is becoming softcore arcade central sadly

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LasseNielsen

The new armour system is going to change your hitboxes on your torso and arms, most likely upper legs as well, as we have seen pictures of new armour that covers thighs. As new armour plates and armours will cover differently.
A plate covering your lungs and heart wouldn't make sense to use, if you still get killed by one/two shots in the shoulder.

About new meds, i like noise so i'll link his short video on it. But safe to say, i don't think they would be working on animations if they don't have a plan for them.

Also, we can see on our characters health, that we can be infected by biohazards and radiation. Also they are talking about: Expanded medical & health system (e.g Managing stress/sickness/blood pressure) copy/paste from the wiki on things to come.

So yeah... in the future, i think combat is something most will try to avoid, unless carrying a farmacy around with them.

 

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