Jump to content
SlothHunter

We can have compromises on "realism"... right?

Recommended Posts

SlothHunter
Posted (edited)

The community and devs have to come to a consensus soon on where Tarkov stands realism/gameplay wise or the game is going to lose a swath of players on either side of the debate patch to patch.

POST TLDR: Tarkov's devs and community need to find a balance between playability and realism and the current/recent direction of the devs is neither. Tarkov can be semi-realisitic and still fun with the addition of certain simple mechanics surrounding gunplay, movement, and healing. For this to happen the community needs to have compromises instead of fighting that muddies the communities voice in the eyes of the devs. LIST BELOW OF RECOMMENDED IDEAS

It seems that as of recent (since the Twitch Drop event) the Tarkov community has seen a widening divide between those players who want the game to be realistic and those who want it to be "more" casual. Those who despise the mosin those who see it as a firearm of the common man. I personally stand more towards the realistic/mosin man side of the divide but understand the limitation surrounding a video game, fun, and realism. 

That being said, we can have compromises on "realism"... right? I hope so. 

Tarkov will never be realistic. As realistic as playable sure, but one part of our community has to understand that Tarkov cannot go as far as Arma/Squad in gunplay and thrive/survive. The game needs some arcadesc features to make it enjoyable. On the contrary, the limitations surrounding stims, painkillers, surgery kits, etc. are just not there for the game to fulfil the semi-realistic position I think it should hold. No matter what the state of the traders, market, tasks, hideout, etc. the combat/in-raid gameplay is what all those things feed into. Without a good combat system the game is left lacking and I will add that Tarkov has one of the most robust healing/combat systems as it stands but it needs to be refined in a direction not currently being taken by the devs. Most people I know, including myself, look back to the heydays of gear fear and look back fondly. A time when your gear really mattered regardless of the state of combat you were fearful of losing it and played a certain way because of it. Not like a rat but usually smarter or more “realistic” than what has become of the game’s meta. You should be penalized for making dumb decisions in a fight and a surgery kit, stim, or painkiller should be your endless in-raid savior. Here's a list of changes I think could be made to make the game more “realistic” while not jeopardizing the fun. 

  • Body parts can only be repaired (CMS/Surv) “X” number of times a raid and or make using them take much longer where you will need to find good cover to use them. 
  • Make it so that painkillers, morphine, etc. will still allow you to run but at reduced speed (half or so of normal) and or should take a little bit after consumption to fully take effect to get to that point.
  • Re? - Implement inertial movement to stop ADAD spam (devs have been notified by forum staff)
  • Increase point fire recoil and general recoil and remove the full auto recoil plateau
  • Make advantage of lasers visual only 
  • For stomach wounds, surgery will stop external blood loss but the player will still lose hydration at a slightly faster rate (decrease overall hydration/energy loss and make it so that they don’t kill you, should hinder a lot instead)
  • Implement a system where hits to body armory decrease stam somewhat (heavy breathing for a period)
  • Implement an adrenaline system under which you get a slight stam boost in a fight when it starts to either fight or run (harder to implement well)
  • For every repair of blacked legs your max run speed decreases
  • For every repair of blacked lungs your max stamina decreases

Not all of these are necessary to get gameplay to a playable yet more “realistic” point. If anything if gameplay is slowed even slightly and firefights become more drawn out the game will be more enjoyable than what becomes of many firefights where the first shooter wins quickly. Players should be more fearful of losing their gear but not to the point of a Tarkonian rat infestation. To get to a good point, Tarkov's devs and its community to be able to compromise on what is best for the game regardless of our deeply held passions. If not, there is going to be a never ending battle on the issue till release and then a good portion of the playerbase may just bounce. 

 

One “Quick” Point on Quests

The game's quest system is an absolute disaster for all but the original traders and their original tasks (for the most part). The addition of an abundance of FIND tasks with Mechanic/Ragman makes the grind unenjoyable. Atop that, Jaeger & other's "Kill em' from xyz with abc and mno up your a**" are just poor excuses for what could be a robust quest system that sees players interacting with the environment more often. Even as place holders, many of the current tasks or boring, tedious, or stupid. TLDR Quests don't have to be realistic but should instead be enjoyable to some extent and not have players doing outrageous acts of marksmanship or self inflicted pain, dehydration, etc.

 

Viva la Tarkov 



 

Edited by SlothHunter
  • Like 6
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldschool15

Its very rare I agree with something so thoroughly, well wrote sir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chrisragnar

Agree with exception being the adrenalin effect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yarbay

Some ideas are good but not all.
What I do not understand is that they have very good features built into the Alpha such as a light switch in the floor at 11:24 . Why did they removed that in beta? These are things that make the game more unrealistic. Why do you have to break the lights? There were a lot of other good things in the Alpha that made the environment much more realistic, why did they take it out?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redangelguts

All this stuff surrounding realism, I really don't think they care about main servers, we gotta split servers and let them cater to 12 year old fortnite kids on main servers

Every time someone suggests all these realism changes I can't help roll my eyes... do I like the ideas? Sure. However, If gun damage is completely arcade and vitals aren't a thing (other than head for some stupid reason? this is somehow normal in the "game-o-sphere"?! rofl...) then all these ideas are just more noise to me

...and certainly every time I read these posts they are noise to the devs... absolutely certainly! 😒

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SlothHunter
1 hour ago, Redangelguts said:

All this stuff surrounding realism, I really don't think they care about main servers, we gotta split servers and let them cater to 12 year old fortnite kids on main servers

Every time someone suggests all these realism changes I can't help roll my eyes... do I like the ideas? Sure. However, If gun damage is completely arcade and vitals aren't a thing (other than head for some stupid reason? this is somehow normal in the "game-o-sphere"?! rofl...) then all these ideas are just more noise to me

...and certainly every time I read these posts they are noise to the devs... absolutely certainly! 😒

I bring about those recommendations under the umbrella of realism (a sort of clickbait I guess) when in reality I don't particular care whether or not the game is extremely realistic or not. Instead, many of my changes or more oriented towards changing gameplay in a way that I think will make Tarkov more enjoyable. Slowing gameplay to a point where playing smarter wins more fights over the brazen run n' gun style that the games meta has allowed for. They don't need to cater, they need to make a better game (game is already great in my eyes just needs significant work still). I think I made it abundantly clear that I don't advocate for absolute realism and if anything my ideas aren't particularly radical they just would somewhat slow gameplay. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SlothHunter
1 hour ago, Yarbay said:

Some ideas are good but not all.
What I do not understand is that they have very good features built into the Alpha such as a light switch in the floor at 11:24 . Why did they removed that in beta? These are things that make the game more unrealistic. Why do you have to break the lights? There were a lot of other good things in the Alpha that made the environment much more realistic, why did they take it out?

 

I don't think all of them are necessary and if just a few were added I think it would have the intended effect I am looking for. When it comes to alpha features (I bought EOD before the release to gen pub) I don't think many of those that they showed in the dev diaries were ever in the game in the first place. The lights, lock picking, hand held flash lights, etc. have been shown off but somewhat disregarded. Over two years ago I asked Nikita in a Q&A stream on Kleans channel if ladder climbing would be coming and he said within the next year and obviously that never came. Priorities change of course but I would take interactive gameplay features over content any day, especially if it allows for cooler/better tasks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yarbay
vor 42 Minuten schrieb SlothHunter:

I don't think all of them are necessary and if just a few were added I think it would have the intended effect I am looking for. When it comes to alpha features (I bought EOD before the release to gen pub) I don't think many of those that they showed in the dev diaries were ever in the game in the first place. The lights, lock picking, hand held flash lights, etc. have been shown off but somewhat disregarded. Over two years ago I asked Nikita in a Q&A stream on Kleans channel if ladder climbing would be coming and he said within the next year and obviously that never came. Priorities change of course but I would take interactive gameplay features over content any day, especially if it allows for cooler/better tasks.

ladder climbing would be nice with an Thermal Scope, i think this feature  would come later after Release.

I would like to visit my hideout in the raid in a safe zone, even better if you could visit others if you were invited. Then you can swap/trade things or play Tetris or PingPong on the console that would be really funny. A training room in Hideout to skill your strength. The only thing that improves when you throw Nades are strength and stamina power of your Hands. Throwing grenades should also increase stamina in the arms. At the moment the strength is summarized. Did they want to completely revise the skill system ? The character should also get tired and rest in his bed in the hideout. I honestly don't know what BSG wants to do with EFT a Loot PVP survival shooter with semi realistic elements. There are many survival games, one makes the maps very nice, the other does something different and again and again you say oh it wouldn't be great if you had everything in one game. But this is impossible because every developer does not have the same education. There is no such thing as a best developer, everyone has their own special talent and unfortunately they do not exchange information with other lead Developer. There are very few who have dared to develop a game with other top studios. There was a good racing simulation with bad graphics, then they designed a game together with DICE. What is left of the experience and they are now making very nice games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mattix

Tarkov needs to be broken up into two games.

1. Classic tarkov for all the milsim whores

2. Casual tarkov for the normies

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SlothHunter
8 hours ago, mattix said:

Tarkov needs to be broken up into two games.

1. Classic tarkov for all the milsim whores

2. Casual tarkov for the normies

I don't think it needs to nor will it ever seeing as the dev team is now halved to start work on Russia 2028. Even if BSG had the man power and will to make two separate "games" there isn't a point. My recommendations aren't particular geared towards realism but are to curb run n' gun play styles that the current meta allows. These changes aren't drastic by any means if just a few were implement for the sake of gameplay but with the side effect of making the game a little bit more realisitc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mattix
8 hours ago, SlothHunter said:

I don't think it needs to nor will it ever seeing as the dev team is now halved to start work on Russia 2028. Even if BSG had the man power and will to make two separate "games" there isn't a point. My recommendations aren't particular geared towards realism but are to curb run n' gun play styles that the current meta allows. These changes aren't drastic by any means if just a few were implement for the sake of gameplay but with the side effect of making the game a little bit more realisitc.

Divorce is the only real option. Nobody will be happy with the way things are and the way they are going. Besides how hard would it be to copy everything in tarkov currently, casualize it for one group, hardcorize it for the other. Fork the launcher and have two different tarkov experiences for two different kind of players? You could call Casual Tarkov something else, like Tarkov Remastered. And Hardcore Tarkov; 'Tarkov Classic.'

P.S. See this is why I rarely support early access and live service games. The community eventually ends up tearing itself apart. I've seen it happen in way too many games. The devs prioritize one group over the other and detract half their fanbase. From the current game and from future projects. This is why I like buying finished products(DLC not withstanding). I dont have the time or the patience to wait for a game to be fixed or playable(7 years on now, for DayZ to get good). Too many games have been abandoned before they ever got a chance to shine. That's why I also rarely participate in betas. Or buy games still in development. 

P.S.S. Here in lies the problem with Democracy. Who do you listen to? Who do you enfranchise? Everybody? The public masses can not be trusted with the future of the nation. A select few? The lucky few will abuse their powers and exploit the working men of the nation. Democracy is a fundamentally broken system. It may work in the beginning when the difference between citizens are minor and irrelevant. But as time goes on. New foreign ideas eventually begin to creep in and corrupt the populace. Turning brother against brother. In a democracy. Unless everybody is on the same page, you're gonna piss off more than half the country with your shenanigans. Democracy is also the preferred system of government for hostile foreign powers to infiltrate. Give me an Empire and an Emperor. Non hereditary lines of succession. Let the strongest man lead. Not he with most arms or military support, but he with the strongest character and will! 

 

Have you heard the tragedy of the Commonwealth of Lithuania/Poland? I thought not. It's not a tale a democrat would tell you. The Commonwealth was once a great continental European state. So powerful, that they could repel the Turks at Vienna. They had such an understanding of geopolitics that they survived situated between larger and more powerful neighbors. The Commonwealth was so powerful because of their democracy that their neighbors feared them and hated them, and used the Commonwealth's own democratic system to subdue and subvert them from inside. The nobles who had all the voting power began to place weak kings on the throne. The King became infirm and a pawn for the nobles and foreign interests. Eventually the nobles betrayed and dismembered the Commonwealth. Selling out the people, the land and the nation for their own personal wealth. Ironic isn't it? Their greatest strength was in fact their greatest weakness.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ferguswag

You know what really grinds my gears? When you do surgery on your leg and the pants are still fully intact. I demand that Nikita invest resources in correctly modeling the flapping of torn pants in the wind while sprinting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SlothHunter
21 hours ago, ferguswag said:

You know what really grinds my gears? When you do surgery on your leg and the pants are still fully intact. I demand that Nikita invest resources in correctly modeling the flapping of torn pants in the wind while sprinting.

Are you trying to say these post is just another in a sea of realism fanboys? I'm not sure if it was here or on reddit but I said these changes were more oriented, in my eyes, to slow the game to a more enjoyable point with the one-off side effect being more """"realism"""". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SlothHunter
On 7/17/2020 at 9:11 PM, mattix said:

Divorce is the only real option. Nobody will be happy with the way things are and the way they are going. Besides how hard would it be to copy everything in tarkov currently, casualize it for one group, hardcorize it for the other. Fork the launcher and have two different tarkov experiences for two different kind of players? You could call Casual Tarkov something else, like Tarkov Remastered. And Hardcore Tarkov; 'Tarkov Classic.'

P.S. See this is why I rarely support early access and live service games. The community eventually ends up tearing itself apart. I've seen it happen in way too many games. The devs prioritize one group over the other and detract half their fanbase. From the current game and from future projects. This is why I like buying finished products(DLC not withstanding). I dont have the time or the patience to wait for a game to be fixed or playable(7 years on now, for DayZ to get good). Too many games have been abandoned before they ever got a chance to shine. That's why I also rarely participate in betas. Or buy games still in development. 

P.S.S. Here in lies the problem with Democracy. Who do you listen to? Who do you enfranchise? Everybody? The public masses can not be trusted with the future of the nation. A select few? The lucky few will abuse their powers and exploit the working men of the nation. Democracy is a fundamentally broken system. It may work in the beginning when the difference between citizens are minor and irrelevant. But as time goes on. New foreign ideas eventually begin to creep in and corrupt the populace. Turning brother against brother. In a democracy. Unless everybody is on the same page, you're gonna piss off more than half the country with your shenanigans. Democracy is also the preferred system of government for hostile foreign powers to infiltrate. Give me an Empire and an Emperor. Non hereditary lines of succession. Let the strongest man lead. Not he with most arms or military support, but he with the strongest character and will! 

 

Have you heard the tragedy of the Commonwealth of Lithuania/Poland? I thought not. It's not a tale a democrat would tell you. The Commonwealth was once a great continental European state. So powerful, that they could repel the Turks at Vienna. They had such an understanding of geopolitics that they survived situated between larger and more powerful neighbors. The Commonwealth was so powerful because of their democracy that their neighbors feared them and hated them, and used the Commonwealth's own democratic system to subdue and subvert them from inside. The nobles who had all the voting power began to place weak kings on the throne. The King became infirm and a pawn for the nobles and foreign interests. Eventually the nobles betrayed and dismembered the Commonwealth. Selling out the people, the land and the nation for their own personal wealth. Ironic isn't it? Their greatest strength was in fact their greatest weakness.

 

 

On the matter of Tarkov, the devs are particularly pandering to one side or the other. Insteas they, for the most part, are sticking to a vision they have and seemingly wish to follow through upon. They have undoubtedly made misteps along the way but they are gonna go jn the direction they want unlesd that will certainly lead to a real hit in sales. I think the recent publicity the game has gotten was never expected and thus game them an influx of capital to stay on course but we will see.

 

On the topic of democracy though, not sure why you went on so much about it, I disagree. Foreign and abberant ideas creepung into the politicians, not the populace, is what fails democracy. No doubt you're right about early stages of democracy and how it leads to division (modern U.S. is a key example of this) but to say that you would rather have an emperor is to say that you would wish for the most morally abd ethically corrupt of our politicians to have all power. That then leads to mass poverty, surfdom, slavery, needless war, and so on. Those leaders lead through their own self interest, not through the interests of a simple majority/majority. Thus far various forms of democracy have been the best way to corral humanity. Under empires you have periods of "peace" that often end in tumult and revolution and democracy hasn't yet been around as long to determine stability but prosperity for the people under it is far better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ferguswag
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SlothHunter said:

Are you trying to say these post is just another in a sea of realism fanboys? I'm not sure if it was here or on reddit but I said these changes were more oriented, in my eyes, to slow the game to a more enjoyable point with the one-off side effect being more """"realism"""". 

I am simply poking fun at the extremes between tarkov being realistic and being a game. If they modeled everything as realistic as possible, who is to say which parts should be left out, like the pants? Why should internal stomach bleeding be accounted for when they could simply pretend that the surgery kits have some means to staunch the bleeding temporarily? There also already is a cap on the maximum times surgery kits can be used... they reduce each appendage's HP. Also, are you referring to the thorax as the lungs? Thoraxes cannot be healed once blacked. If the realism path were followed, and players were punished to such extents for PVPing, they could potentially risk retarding their character for the entire duration of the raid. This doesn't seem at all good game design, players should be able to fall back for some duration and heal to continue playing without severe disadvantages like reduced speed/permanently blacked limbs.

Edited by ferguswag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mattix
3 hours ago, SlothHunter said:

On the topic of democracy though, not sure why you went on so much about it, I disagree. Foreign and abberant ideas creepung into the politicians, not the populace, is what fails democracy. No doubt you're right about early stages of democracy and how it leads to division (modern U.S. is a key example of this) but to say that you would rather have an emperor is to say that you would wish for the most morally abd ethically corrupt of our politicians to have all power. That then leads to mass poverty, surfdom, slavery, needless war, and so on. Those leaders lead through their own self interest, not through the interests of a simple majority/majority. Thus far various forms of democracy have been the best way to corral humanity. Under empires you have periods of "peace" that often end in tumult and revolution and democracy hasn't yet been around as long to determine stability but prosperity for the people under it is far better.

Democracy is a Lie. Foreign funds can be used against us by our enemies to destroy and destabilize us. How many politicians have sold out their own homelands for that sweet, sweet foreign capital? How many laws have been made at the interest of foreign capital and at the expense of local heritage and culture? Too many. We need a Leader, A strong leader to guide us. Out of this trap of democracy, we find ourselves in. One with no loyalty to anyone but his people. Not even his own family, if they choose to philander with traitors and hostile foreign states. We need an Emperor. And an Empire for him to rule. An Empire of one culture, one language and one people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2