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etra_kurdaj

85 HP thorax is the death of 7.62x51 M80

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etra_kurdaj

This game has a hollow diversity of ammunition. The reality is very few variants of a caliber are actually viable. M80 is no longer viable. 

It used to be, you could use it to reliably one shot to the thorax low level armor, and unarmored scavs. This is no longer the case. Now BPZ FMJ has moved into that role. It is the highest armor pen'ing bullet in the caliber that can one shot a thorax. Perhaps this is as intended.

 

M61 is the AP gold standard, and M62 is the "almost as good" alternative. M80 is in third place.

To draw a comparison, when you have Igolnik and BS as options, why would you ever select BT? Or M856A1? The cost of ammo as you shop the higher tiers does increase, but not prohibitively so.

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ferguswag
2 hours ago, etra_kurdaj said:

This game has a hollow diversity of ammunition. The reality is very few variants of a caliber are actually viable.

Different ammos are suited for different play styles/scenarios/budgets. If you are planning on fighting Chads wearing tier 5/6 then obviously not every ammo is going to be useful in that endeavor. The thorax buff simply prevents M80 from being able to 1-tap nakeds and Scavs... is it really the end of the world considering how often you won't be able to fire a 2nd bullet and end up dieing?

2 hours ago, etra_kurdaj said:

To draw a comparison, when you have Igolnik and BS as options, why would you ever select BT? Or M856A1? The cost of ammo as you shop the higher tiers does increase, but not prohibitively so.

For low level players it certainly does. Even as a late game player you might hesitate taking in 200+ rounds in drum mags every raid.

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TechoverMana

I think there really does need to be a 'vitals' hitbox in the torso, where you can one tap with virtually any ammo in the game on a naked person, since it'd be the same as that bullet hitting the spine/heart/aorta area. Head probably just needs a reduction in health, or with its own 'brain/spine/carotid/jugular' hitbox for a similar effect.

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davidj123456

Aim for the head.........................? Use M993, M61, M62, SNB, 7BT1, or 7N1 and you will be able to 1-tap 99% of players in the head. Can't do it? Get good or don't complain...

M80, 7N1, and LPS GZH were only a threat to people wearing Level 4 and below armor. To Level 5+ it never really mattered because it wouldn't kill you in one shot. If someone hit you it would be possible to turn around and kill them while they are reloading the bolt.
People who wear Level 3-4 armor are the ones who really suffer.... and these people are new players.... not higher level players and streamers....

Imagine being level 20 and spending 250K on a loadout while some other guy buys a gun for 45K with ammo for 5K and can just 1-tap you... point and click... without really having much skill....

The 85HP update is for newer players to help them progress faster and to stop them from being 1 tapped.

Honestly I am really happy they did this. It is really funny to see people complain.

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Keptas
41 minutes ago, davidj123456 said:

Imagine being level 20 and spending 250K on a loadout while some other guy buys a gun for 45K with ammo for 5K and can just 1-tap you... point and click... without really having much skill....

You call it skill? Hardcore my ass. It's called gatekeeping. Soon causal fade away from this game and it will die. Mark my words.

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davidj123456
54 minutes ago, Keptas said:

You call it skill? Hardcore my ass. It's called gatekeeping. Soon causal fade away from this game and it will die. Mark my words.

I'd rather it have a smaller community but of people who don't complain so much...

It's like getting Arma 3 to become COD because Arma is "too hard"

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volk114cu
2 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

Aim for the head.........................? Use M993, M61, M62, SNB, 7BT1, or 7N1 and you will be able to 1-tap 99% of players in the head. Can't do it? Get good or don't complain...

Ima just leave this here:

https://clips.twitch.tv/AggressiveHappyMangoBloodTrail

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davidj123456
7 minutes ago, volk114cu said:

They nerfed both of those stims so your clip no longer applies LOL

Also, currently all half-decent 7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mm, 7.62x39mm, and 5.56x45mm rounds can 1-tap the head. Even tho that stim gives you 10% damage reduction you won't survive a headshot with any of those rounds. 
When it was 20% (yesterday) all the high powered rounds could still 1-tap you.

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GeneralBrus
1 hour ago, davidj123456 said:

I'd rather it have a smaller community but of people who don't complain so much...

It's like getting Arma 3 to become COD because Arma is "too hard"

at least you die when you get shot in arma lol

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davidj123456
5 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

at least you die when you get shot in arma lol

I am sorry I did not realize bullets do not kill you in this game

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Bennosuke

New players are mostly suffer from barrage of suppressed fire from nowhere rather than other new players with vepr hunters. So 85hp thorax won't make the game easier for them.

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S5_Mr_Wiggle
On 7/28/2020 at 5:43 AM, davidj123456 said:

Aim for the head.........................? Use M993, M61, M62, SNB, 7BT1, or 7N1 and you will be able to 1-tap 99% of players in the head. Can't do it? Get good or don't complain...

M80, 7N1, and LPS GZH were only a threat to people wearing Level 4 and below armor. To Level 5+ it never really mattered because it wouldn't kill you in one shot. If someone hit you it would be possible to turn around and kill them while they are reloading the bolt.
People who wear Level 3-4 armor are the ones who really suffer.... and these people are new players.... not higher level players and streamers....

Imagine being level 20 and spending 250K on a loadout while some other guy buys a gun for 45K with ammo for 5K and can just 1-tap you... point and click... without really having much skill....

The 85HP update is for newer players to help them progress faster and to stop them from being 1 tapped.

Honestly I am really happy they did this. It is really funny to see people complain.

ya its not like the human body needs lungs, or a heart or a spinal cord to operate any way -_-

 

you can live fore a while without intestines' or kidneys but the top three above are pretty much death sentence if you lose one of those items.

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YeahImaGamer

I personally still think m80 is the best ammo type since well 1. It still can one shot head 2. Its hella cheap 3. Most the other ammos that actually one tap thorax are 1,200 rubles plus

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Caster89Actual
On 7/28/2020 at 7:21 AM, davidj123456 said:

I'd rather it have a smaller community but of people who don't complain so much...

It's like getting Arma 3 to become COD because Arma is "too hard"

Lady and gentlemen, I present to you the second most insufferable person on these forums.

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davidj123456

M80 does 80 damage. This does not give a guaranteed chance to 1-tap the Thorax anyway especially if someone has any kind of armor on. It may leave them on 1HP or so at times.
I do not understand why the ability to 1-tap people is so huge in everyone's minds? Even when you aim at the Thorax you may still hit their Arm if they are facing you and not 1-tap them either.
Is it too hard to just fire a second shot or aim for the head?

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Bennosuke
В 14.08.2020 в 16:23, davidj123456 сказал:

M80 does 80 damage. This does not give a guaranteed chance to 1-tap the Thorax anyway especially if someone has any kind of armor on. It may leave them on 1HP or so at times.
I do not understand why the ability to 1-tap people is so huge in everyone's minds? Even when you aim at the Thorax you may still hit their Arm if they are facing you and not 1-tap them either.
Is it too hard to just fire a second shot or aim for the head?

Yes it's hard to line up a second shot or shoot at the head. Especially if you're using a high recoil unsuppressed weapon such as vepr hunter. Hitting a moving target at 30m+ is already quite challenging, but hitting it twice or in the head is especially hard. After this change there is no point in using M80 if you can use M855a1 to 2 tap thorax with 4 class armor, but with lower recoil. At this state M80 hits slightly more hard than 7n31, both rounds will 2 tap thorax.

This is stupid and the best solution for this situation is this -

В 28.07.2020 в 08:41, TechoverMana сказал:

I think there really does need to be a 'vitals' hitbox in the torso, where you can one tap with virtually any ammo in the game on a naked person, since it'd be the same as that bullet hitting the spine/heart/aorta area. Head probably just needs a reduction in health, or with its own 'brain/spine/carotid/jugular' hitbox for a similar effect.

 

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spyafer
On 8/14/2020 at 8:23 AM, davidj123456 said:

M80 does 80 damage. This does not give a guaranteed chance to 1-tap the Thorax anyway especially if someone has any kind of armor on. It may leave them on 1HP or so at times.
I do not understand why the ability to 1-tap people is so huge in everyone's minds? Even when you aim at the Thorax you may still hit their Arm if they are facing you and not 1-tap them either.
Is it too hard to just fire a second shot or aim for the head?

what's the point of bolt action rifles at all if you're going to do that? why not bring a semi-auto or fully-auto gun and do it 10 times faster? firing a second shot with like a mosin, takes a lot of time. if I shoot someone in the thorax and they live they have stupid amount of time to shoot back at me with almost a full mag.

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davidj123456
6 hours ago, spyafer said:

what's the point of bolt action rifles at all if you're going to do that? why not bring a semi-auto or fully-auto gun and do it 10 times faster? firing a second shot with like a mosin, takes a lot of time. if I shoot someone in the thorax and they live they have stupid amount of time to shoot back at me with almost a full mag.

Aim for the head if you want to 1-tap. The bolt action weapons are all much more accurate and can have much higher ergonomics than the other weapons meaning you can snipe with them over longer ranges and keep them scoped in for longer. This is the point of these weapons. Sniping at long range.
At this range use SNB or M61 (LPS or M80 if you can't afford the others) and just aim for the head.

If you can't hit the head just get better at the game and practice more.

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GavTheMighty

I had a good time earlier today on Customs Scav walks into my hideho near Garages and I had picked up an SKS so I lay into him he just stands there and 2 hits me with a shotgun. So I checked after as this all seemed odd as the scav wasn't wearing armour or appeared not to. So report............ 10 shots, 10 hits 415 damage.............. I was using PS ammo and as the report showed no armour so none absorbed. how was it possible that I only did 415 damage lol.

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TacticalBazza

cry me a river, aim for the head

also just so you know BSG in their infinite wisdom added .366 AP which pens level 5 armor and does 90 damage 

pick up a semi auto Vepr AK and enjoy one shotting chads to the chest

 

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spyafer
On 8/15/2020 at 3:35 PM, davidj123456 said:

Aim for the head if you want to 1-tap. The bolt action weapons are all much more accurate and can have much higher ergonomics than the other weapons meaning you can snipe with them over longer ranges and keep them scoped in for longer. This is the point of these weapons. Sniping at long range.
At this range use SNB or M61 (LPS or M80 if you can't afford the others) and just aim for the head.

If you can't hit the head just get better at the game and practice more.

you just ignored my point though, and I'm mainly talking about infantry rifles not snipers. like factory, I used to love playing that map but now I literally can't unless I can headshot multiple people in a very small amount of time with limited shots. I literally have to play PERFECTLY if I want to survive with a bolt action rifle there. it's too unfairly unforgiving. everyone already understands you can aim for the head and kill people, we've heard it a million times. we get it, but you're still not understanding the actual issue here and keep saying the same thing.

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sabot726

but then why run a bolt action at all if an AR is 1 hit headshot? lets face it as far as ARs DMRs and SRs when concerned with weapon accuracy does not matter in 99% of play,  i hear people touting skill whilst they are using the easiest, consistent and most forgiving guns, with SR miss one shot and you're dead most of the time, yet countless times AR plebs spray whole magazines without a kill, "SKILL" GIVE ME A BREAK! Sadly SRs have no place in this game right now until .300mag/338 lapua becomes a thing... OH wait the realism community has checked in and added .366AP (/s) and 1 tapping is cheaper than ever with the vpo-215, but  no one cares its not a mosin.

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davidj123456
10 hours ago, spyafer said:

you just ignored my point though, and I'm mainly talking about infantry rifles not snipers. like factory, I used to love playing that map but now I literally can't unless I can headshot multiple people in a very small amount of time with limited shots. I literally have to play PERFECTLY if I want to survive with a bolt action rifle there. it's too unfairly unforgiving. everyone already understands you can aim for the head and kill people, we've heard it a million times. we get it, but you're still not understanding the actual issue here and keep saying the same thing.

Factory is a CQB map. It was never intended for DMRs and bolt action weapons.

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ShiroTenshi
12 hours ago, spyafer said:

you just ignored my point though, and I'm mainly talking about infantry rifles not snipers. 

The only weapon that can be considered an infantry rifle, that is bolt action, is the Mosin. All others are better used as snipers.

Besides, if you are bringing a bolt action rifle that is best used at medium ranges, and using it for close quarters then you are intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage. By spending just a little bit more money (or less money, depending on the market price) you could get a Vepr-101. It's semi Auto and has a 10 round capacity with the right magazines, which would double your total capacity compared to the Mosin, with M80 being relatively easy to find at peacekeeper level 2 and having around the same pen as cheap Mosin ammo.

Better yet, get a Vepr-209 for less then half the price of a Mosin. 30 Round magazines even with EKO not being as high pen as mosin ammo more than makes up for it with having 6 times the ammo available. Or if you don't have Jaeger level 2 to get the ammo, do the same with a Vepr-136 with ammo you can get off of Prapor level 1. "But then i have to take a vest for the mags!" I hear you say? The money you saved compared to the price of a Mosin more then affords you the cheapest vest Ragman has. It's not like you will end up spending more money then you would if you only take in a Mosin and loose ammo.

You have to adapt to the conditions of the game, not the other way around.

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davidj123456
3 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

The only weapon that can be considered an infantry rifle, that is bolt action, is the Mosin. All others are better used as snipers.

Besides, if you are bringing a bolt action rifle that is best used at medium ranges, and using it for close quarters then you are intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage. By spending just a little bit more money (or less money, depending on the market price) you could get a Vepr-101. It's semi Auto and has a 10 round capacity with the right magazines, which would double your total capacity compared to the Mosin, with M80 being relatively easy to find at peacekeeper level 2 and having around the same pen as cheap Mosin ammo.

Better yet, get a Vepr-209 for less then half the price of a Mosin. 30 Round magazines even with EKO not being as high pen as mosin ammo more than makes up for it with having 6 times the ammo available. Or if you don't have Jaeger level 2 to get the ammo, do the same with a Vepr-136 with ammo you can get off of Prapor level 1. "But then i have to take a vest for the mags!" I hear you say? The money you saved compared to the price of a Mosin more then affords you the cheapest vest Ragman has. It's not like you will end up spending more money then you would if you only take in a Mosin and loose ammo.

You have to adapt to the conditions of the game, not the other way around.

For Factory you can do the trade 8 Knives for MP5. You could even use an MP5K from Peacekeeper and im for the face. For CQB there are so many good options idk why people would cry about no longer being able to use Mosins.

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