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SG95

To everyone that hates the mosin

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SG95

Honestly F you, you are the single biggest problem with this game besides streamers. A bulky 1891 bolt action rifle that uses rounds longer than most people's fingers and has a default magazine capacity of 5 SHOULD be able to one shot people to the chest AKA where your LUNGS and HEART and ALL ARTERIES pass through.

Like holy sh... a fully grown elk is typically killed in one shot to the chest by 5.56x45 rounds which are roughly 3/4th of the size. Are you and BSG expecting me to believe that 7.62x54r wouldnt devastate any hatchling in one shot to the point of being completely incapacitated or dead? In COD the SVD kills to the chest in one shot why shouldnt it in tarkov?

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Majlo

I completely agree, even though your tone is a bit off the top.

As long as the round is able to penetrate the armor it hits, it should definitely be lethal if it hits the thorax (lungs, heart, spine).

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davidj123456

If ammunition in this game was priced at how good it is at killing stuff... and weapons were priced accordingly also... then yeah sure this would be completely fine.
But in the past you had people buying a Mosin with LPS for under 50K... and just going to raids with it.

People like me who were using level 5-6 armor during the first month of wipe would not care about Moslings at all because you shoot me once... you do not penetrate my armor with your Level 4 round... so I turn around and kill you. I never had an issue with it.

The people who had a problem were new & intermediate players who could only run level 3 and level 4 armor... and as such were getting 1-shot by everyone else. Imagine being a new player and spending 300K on a gearset and getting killed by someone with nothing but 1 gun...
This was unfair to the new and intermediate players which is why they increased thorax to 85.

If you want to kill people with it just aim for the head... like you would have to before 12.7 when encountering level 5-6 armored players...

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JackSpooks

This is abridged but Nikita said the game is supposed to be as realistic as playable not possible, and I think a game where for 50k roubles plus the price of ammo you can one shot someone to the largest and easiest to hit section of the human body which is armored up to tier 5 is somewhat unplayable. There would be no point in wearing armor, or bringing any gear out unless you have thermals, seeing as any random USEC could put on a green shemagh and a Mosin, chill in the grass by an extract and just one tap you as you're running through. By the way 7n1 still one shots to the chest up to tier 5 so I don't really understand your complaint at all, just buy better ammo, or if you can't one shot, shell out 40k extra roubles to buy an svd from prapor and just shoot them twice in the chest. The mosin being nerfed is a non-problem, though in my opinion if they wanna nerf it they should just up the price, as that would make it less viable to run mosling, it still rewards skillful aim and patience, just not the common ability to click on someone's thorax once.

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jc984

I have no problem with the mosin. I think its balanced out by its slow reloading and its a bolt action and have to cock it after every shot. if you miss, you are most likely dead unless you have backup.

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Saws_n_Sins

I just don't think people realize how big of a bullet the Mosin actually shoots. A Mosin in real life has no problem punching through decently thick steel with just cheap rounds. People really better hope they don't add any of the Russian machine guns that shoot the round (which is alot). The Mosin is already a slow shooting gun, and considering clips don't exist in the game it can take awhile to reload in a hot situation.

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Eisenwanst

It is realistic! A Mosin cost in my country about 200-300 dollars. Im pretty sure, in mother russia you can get them for a bottle of wodka. And they are effective. But they are boltactions. And i think, its pretty accurate, how they work in game. I dont understand all the crying about them. If a mosling get a clean shot at me, he deservs my gear. Im a really bad player and i struggle withe the jaeger quest to kill people with a mosin under 25 meter. But even i get some mosling kills. Thats not really a problem.

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Starioshka

It's much easier to land shots in a video game. "It's Bolt action tho!!" Is not an argument that flyes here.

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z_Omni_z

I tend to agree. I don't use them outside of the Tarkov Shooter quest line but had no issue with the balance of the Mosin previously. Personally I think they're awful, which is why I don't use them, but this is mostly because I'm a potato that can't hit his shots =D

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SG95
On 7/31/2020 at 8:56 AM, davidj123456 said:

If ammunition in this game was priced at how good it is at killing stuff... and weapons were priced accordingly also... then yeah sure this would be completely fine.
But in the past you had people buying a Mosin with LPS for under 50K... and just going to raids with it.

People like me who were using level 5-6 armor during the first month of wipe would not care about Moslings at all because you shoot me once... you do not penetrate my armor with your Level 4 round... so I turn around and kill you. I never had an issue with it.

The people who had a problem were new & intermediate players who could only run level 3 and level 4 armor... and as such were getting 1-shot by everyone else. Imagine being a new player and spending 300K on a gearset and getting killed by someone with nothing but 1 gun...
This was unfair to the new and intermediate players which is why they increased thorax to 85.

If you want to kill people with it just aim for the head... like you would have to before 12.7 when encountering level 5-6 armored players...

thyey should have just made the mosin harder to get and price it up even more

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SG95
On 7/31/2020 at 3:30 PM, Starioshka said:

It's much easier to land shots in a video game. "It's Bolt action tho!!" Is not an argument that flyes here.

They just need to make aiming while moving harder, the only good way to aim your mosin should be to hold your breath.

 

Aiming in tarkov is way too easy

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davidj123456
15 hours ago, SG95 said:

They just need to make aiming while moving harder, the only good way to aim your mosin should be to hold your breath.

 

Aiming in tarkov is way too easy

In real life that gun is so heavy, bulky, and uncomfortable to shoot you realistically need to lie down or lean it against something!

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Majlo
On 8/2/2020 at 6:06 PM, davidj123456 said:

In real life that gun is so heavy, bulky, and uncomfortable

If we're still speaking about the Mosin, your statement of "the gun is so heavy, bulky, etc. to shoot" - please stop kidding yourself.

The ergonomics of the Mosin are not much different from any other long rifle of which plenty of people still use today in real life as on the go hunting rifles.

The Mosin is also not a particularly heavy gun. Compared to a 30-round loaded M4 carbine which weighs around 3.5 kg, the full sized Mosin rifle only weighs 0.6 kg more. The current Swedish assault rifle weighs more than a Mosin when loaded at 4.5 kg.

Saying that the Mosin is heavy/bulky compared to the AK 5C (example used because I'm Swedish) is plain stupid, as compared to the AK 5C, it is a light rifle.

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davidj123456
4 minutes ago, Majlo said:

If we're still speaking about the Mosin, your statement of "the gun is so heavy, bulky, etc. to shoot" - please stop kidding yourself.

The ergonomics of the Mosin are not much different from any other long rifle of which plenty of people still use today in real life as on the go hunting rifles.

The Mosin is also not a particularly heavy gun. Compared to a 30-round loaded M4 carbine which weighs around 3.5 kg, the full sized Mosin rifle only weighs 0.6 kg more. The current Swedish assault rifle weighs more than a Mosin when loaded at 4.5 kg.

Saying that the Mosin is heavy/bulky compared to the AK 5C (example used because I'm Swedish) is plain stupid, as compared to the AK 5C, it is a light rifle.

Go fire 5 shots with a Mosin. Your shoulder will be in so much pain you won't want to hold it up any more. Also, although weight is important so is the length of the weapon. Mosin Sniper is long af.

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Majlo
4 minutes ago, davidj123456 said:

Go fire 5 shots with a Mosin.

I would love to. Do you have one you can legally into Sweden that I could use?

I've shot other long rifles, and I very much doubt the Mosin is going to do much different in the recoil department then say a Remington 700 fired in the same way.

I will give you that the Mosin is long, but that only matters if you're close enough to something (say, you're indoors or the enemy is right in front of you).

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davidj123456
5 minutes ago, Majlo said:

I would love to. Do you have one you can legally into Sweden that I could use?

I've shot other long rifles, and I very much doubt the Mosin is going to do much different in the recoil department then say a Remington 700 fired in the same way.

I will give you that the Mosin is long, but that only matters if you're close enough to something (say, you're indoors or the enemy is right in front of you).

I shot one when I went to Moscow. I still remember it. I shot an SVD like 20 times and it was completely fine. Then I shot a Mosin and it almost broke my shoulder. They are the same damn caliber so I do not understand.

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Starioshka

@Majlo Let's not play dumb. He's clearly talking about leverage.

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ferguswag
On 7/30/2020 at 4:11 PM, SG95 said:

In COD the SVD kills to the chest in one shot why shouldnt it in tarkov?

Mega cringe

I'm not disagreeing with you though

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WarTraveller
Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2020 at 10:45 PM, davidj123456 said:

Go fire 5 shots with a Mosin. Your shoulder will be in so much pain you won't want to hold it up any more. Also, although weight is important so is the length of the weapon. Mosin Sniper is long af.

Excuse me, but if your shoulder is in "so much pain you don't want to hold it up anymore", after firing mere 5 rounds, then you are fundamentally unfit to handle a rifle, and the validity of your opinion is severely undermined. What makes it even worse is that literally everyone can type "Shooting a Mosin" in Google, and no more than a few seconds later can see how untrue such a statement is.  Which makes me wonder, what purpose does it even serve, apart from baiting people like me into an internet argument?

 

On topic - for me, the "fix" should have been reduced player accuracy/increased sway. In Tarkov, it is too easy to bring up your gun and nail a target*, even after sprint, or under fire.

Another Edit:

Speaking of CoD, I like the bracing system there. It is easy to go into a supported position almost anywhere - I think Tarkov could really use something like that. Peek around a corner? Support your gun on it.

 

*assuming the desync gods are smiling upon you, or you luck out in the adad dance.

Edited by WarTraveller
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davidj123456
4 minutes ago, WarTraveller said:

Excuse me, but if your shoulder is in "so much pain you don't want to hold it up anymore", after firing mere 5 rounds, then you are fundamentally unfit to handle a rifle, and the validity of your opinion is severely undermined. What makes it even worse is that literally everyone can type "Shooting a Mosin" in Google, and no more than a few seconds later can see how untrue such a statement is.  Which makes me wonder, what purpose does it even serve, apart from baiting people like me into an internet argument?

Right because weapons that were made 100 years ago are as comfortable to fire as a modern m4 which you can put up against your d*ck (or p*ss in your case) and just full auto with...
Logic...

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WarTraveller
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, davidj123456 said:

Right because weapons that were made 100 years ago are as comfortable to fire as a modern m4 which you can put up against your d*ck (or p*ss in your case) and just full auto with...
Logic...

Do you honestly believe that weapons from a century ago were so ridiculously uncomfortable, that they were barely usable? 

Even if you doubt that, there are numerous videos of people shooting Mosins, Kar98, Ross rifles, SMLEs, etc, you can watch now, for free, and judge the impact of the weapon on the shooter - and and yet you still choose to argue. This is beyond stupid. Not to mention you can even compare the shape, weight and cartridges of the modern hunting rifles, and realise - there hasn't been that much of a paradigm shift.

And while the Mosin, or anything chambered for a full-length rifle cartridge, will not be as comfortable to shoot as virtually anything in an intermediate caliber, save for perhaps something very short and light,  the above statement is just ... plain stupid. 

 

Increase sway, make target acquisition harder, that should be the better way to go, in my opinion. 

Edited by WarTraveller

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davidj123456
1 minute ago, WarTraveller said:

Do you honestly believe that weapons from a century ago were so ridiculously uncomfortable, that they were barely usable? 

Even if you doubt that, there are numerous videos of people shooting Mosins, Kar98, Ross rifles, SMLEs, etc, you can watch now, for free, and judge the impact of the weapon on the shooter - and and yet you still choose to argue. This is beyond stupid. Not to mention you can even compare the shape, weight and cartridges of the modern hunting rifles, and realise - there hasn't been that much of a paradigm shift.

And while the Mosin, or anything chambered for a full-length rifle cartridge, will not be as comfortable to shoot as virtually anything in an intermediate caliber, save for perhaps something very short or light,  the above statement is just ... plain stupid. 

In Tarkov you do not stand still and just fire it at a firing range. You are running around a map with the rifle. When you see an enemy you shoulder your weapon as fast as possible and fire (unless the situation allows you to take your time).
Go run around with a Mosin and an M4 in a forest for an hour and shoot it throughout that hour. Your argument that they are basically the same is idiotic.

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blueflashde

I actually own a Mosin and can confirm that damned thing isn’t comfortable at all. 5 shots is an exaggeration but that weapon should definitely have more of a penalty than something like a modern automatic rifle.

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WarTraveller
Posted (edited)

My argument has never been that they are the same - I argue that claiming that shooting 5 rounds from a Mosin will cause you debilitating pain is beyond ridiculous. And yes- when you see an enemy in Tarkov, you shoulder your weapon and fire, with intent, and expectation, to kill - because it is too easy to line up shots whenever it doesn't desync, or the the enemy doesn't tap dance around. The fix should have been increased sway, especially after sprint, and not only sway, but taking longer to actually line up the sights, so you don't go around Quake-style, railgunning people. Indirectly reducing the lethality of the weapons, by increasing chest health was a wrong step IMO.

Edited by WarTraveller
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Speznat
Posted (edited)
Am 31.7.2020 um 14:56 schrieb davidj123456:

If ammunition in this game was priced at how good it is at killing stuff... and weapons were priced accordingly also... then yeah sure this would be completely fine.
But in the past you had people buying a Mosin with LPS for under 50K... and just going to raids with it.

People like me who were using level 5-6 armor during the first month of wipe would not care about Moslings at all because you shoot me once... you do not penetrate my armor with your Level 4 round... so I turn around and kill you. I never had an issue with it.

The people who had a problem were new & intermediate players who could only run level 3 and level 4 armor... and as such were getting 1-shot by everyone else. Imagine being a new player and spending 300K on a gearset and getting killed by someone with nothing but 1 gun...
This was unfair to the new and intermediate players which is why they increased thorax to 85.

If you want to kill people with it just aim for the head... like you would have to before 12.7 when encountering level 5-6 armored players...

ive rea dmost of your poo all the time, just stop defending that bullshit system.

Stop with balancing, balance dont matter. weapons should be like there real life destruction and real life values, not balanced or tweaked bullshit. if y fuckign mp can shoot 50 bullets in 15seconds and 2 bullets kill you to 100% and you spray in the game. than the guy shoot at, should be dead. THats realism thats what tarkov made tarkov.

Now its just a BF5/COD/Counterstrike playground with the same poo like every other non realistig FPS arena poo shooter have.

That what made tarkov unique is gone, and thats dissapointing and sad.

Edited by Speznat
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