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Darrakis

Useless sniper bullets

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Darrakis

We are talking about realistic gameplay and make everything harder and slower but when it comes to snipers they are already weak as f*. 85 health in thorax are u kidding ? There is 1 bullet that has this much damge and its not even one tapping thorax with 4 lwl armor :D. I'm very sad about this because I like sniper in 'realistic' games but there is no explanation for this nonsense. Ok I get it mosin is op but mosin isn't that only using this ammo. Lps got nerfed by 2x price and m80 is useless as well (in snipers not in rsas or smtg). I can't even one tap scavs in chest with lps or m80 ! When we will get sniper meta or equal sniper patch ? I don't want overpowered snipers I just want equal patch.
(Don't say aim for head ! m4 or ak make the same result with good ammo in head as well ! Why do I play sniper when there is better option like automatic rifles!)
(Sorry for my bad English btw I just want to say my problem.)

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korkk

personally i find the mosin and most of its ammo garbage unless you land a headshot you may as well be shooting blanks right now

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Mariner

Basically, people moaned that they were getting killed by single shots while they were bunny hopping/sprinting around and running and gunning.

People moaned because they thought that dying to someone with an ancient bolt action rifle when they had expensive meta gear on, was beneath them and unfair.

People moaned because in a game that calls itself realistic, bullets were dangerous.

Instead of addressing the real issue of how easy it is to aim and land shots, especially whilst moving/jumping off buildings, BSG, seemingly wanting to maintain the high speed gameplay, made it even less risky to just run around with your zero recoil meta full auto.

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ferguswag

I like it when people complain about something and BSG does the exact opposite, really entertaining.

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ImDOPE

Exactly, and what do we get at the end?

Found in raid mechanics and destroying a whole side of the game, called pvp.

Right now its almost impossible to break even only doing pvp.

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Awake
Posted (edited)

This is not true at all. At the moment there are many rounds in the game that one tap in the thorax (i.e. having 85+ damage). Let’s just name those which can be used in bolt action snipers: .366 AP, .366 FMJ, .366 Geksa, 7.62x51 Ultra Nosler, 7.52x51 BPZ FMJ, 7.62x54 7N1

In my opinion the large calibers are now at their best balanced state: Regarding hits in thorax, you can one tab people with level 2 armor and below with cheap ammo, you can one tab level 4 armor and below with expensive ammo, you need 2 hits for highend level 5 and 6 armor. This is the best balance that has been around so far. Also dont forget that bullets have a fragmentation chance which adds a chance that bullets which normaly need 2 hits in thorax to be lethal with one hit.

Edited by Awake
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DissAbledGamer
15 hours ago, Darrakis said:

We are talking about realistic gameplay and make everything harder and slower but when it comes to snipers they are already weak as f*. 85 health in thorax are u kidding ? There is 1 bullet that has this much damge and its not even one tapping thorax with 4 lwl armor :D. I'm very sad about this because I like sniper in 'realistic' games but there is no explanation for this nonsense. Ok I get it mosin is op but mosin isn't that only using this ammo. Lps got nerfed by 2x price and m80 is useless as well (in snipers not in rsas or smtg). I can't even one tap scavs in chest with lps or m80 ! When we will get sniper meta or equal sniper patch ? I don't want overpowered snipers I just want equal patch.
(Don't say aim for head ! m4 or ak make the same result with good ammo in head as well ! Why do I play sniper when there is better option like automatic rifles!)
(Sorry for my bad English btw I just want to say my problem.)

The silliest aspect of ammo and gun in this game to me is how the velocity does not change based on the gun.... 

To simplify a 9 mm fired from a SMG (longer barrel) vs Semi-Auto Handgun vs Revolver, the speed of the bullets are NOT the same. The revolver let's out so much compression to its periphery, the combustion that propels to bullet would lose a lot of energy, thus slower speed of the bullet compared to the SMG/Handgun. 

A 7.62x51 in an AR/DMR vs a Bolt action sniper like DVL, same thing the gas pressure from the combustion isn't being used to load a new round like in the AR/DMR's, so the bolt action would actually allow the bullet to travel MUCH faster. We don't see that in the game though, it's silly. 

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chrisragnar

Then aim for the head. There should at least be some kind of challange to one tapping. 

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manjusha
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, chrisragnar said:

Then aim for the head. There should at least be some kind of challange to one tapping. 

Why? There's still a game in at least trying to be tactical and not sprinting head first into rounds bigger than your thumb with the confidence of knowing that it won't kill you. Even though, in real life, that bullet would break your ribs with sturdy armor, and would tear your lungs, and shatter your bones.

This idea that there wouldn't be a game by being careful and ratty because getting shot shouldn't hurt so bad and makes game not fun is weird to me, and apparently, a lot of people on this forum have this idea.

Edited by manjusha
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Insanity8016
18 hours ago, ImDOPE said:

Exactly, and what do we get at the end?

Found in raid mechanics and destroying a whole side of the game, called pvp.

Right now its almost impossible to break even only doing pvp.

I agree that the 85 hp increase was dumb, but if you constantly find yourself dying in PVP, that is definitely an issue on your end. I personally make most of my money off of players' gear.

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TacticalBazza
On 8/9/2020 at 5:32 PM, Mariner said:

Basically, people moaned that they were getting killed by single shots while they were bunny hopping/sprinting around and running and gunning.

People moaned because they thought that dying to someone with an ancient bolt action rifle when they had expensive meta gear on, was beneath them and unfair.

People moaned because in a game that calls itself realistic, bullets were dangerous.

Instead of addressing the real issue of how easy it is to aim and land shots, especially whilst moving/jumping off buildings, BSG, seemingly wanting to maintain the high speed gameplay, made it even less risky to just run around with your zero recoil meta full auto.

idk what you're smoking but what this game needs is faster movement (to make aiming more difficult) and even lower bullet damage (so that gunfights are actually a contest of mechanics and tactical outplays rather than camping in a bush/corner waiting for someone to walk past then instakilling them)
 

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GeneralBrus
26 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

idk what you're smoking but what this game needs is faster movement (to make aiming more difficult) and even lower bullet damage (so that gunfights are actually a contest of mechanics and tactical outplays rather than camping in a bush/corner waiting for someone to walk past then instakilling them)
 

I dont know what you're smoking but you are dead wrong sir, lol.

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ACuddlyBadger
1 hour ago, TacticalBazza said:

idk what you're smoking but what this game needs is faster movement (to make aiming more difficult) and even lower bullet damage (so that gunfights are actually a contest of mechanics and tactical outplays rather than camping in a bush/corner waiting for someone to walk past then instakilling them)
 

Ye he's definitely smoking something multiple times with his suggestion. 

Either that or you are way too young to have opinions on a game you aren't of age to buy yourself.

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Mariner
4 hours ago, TacticalBazza said:

idk what you're smoking but what this game needs is faster movement (to make aiming more difficult) and even lower bullet damage (so that gunfights are actually a contest of mechanics and tactical outplays rather than camping in a bush/corner waiting for someone to walk past then instakilling them)
 

Do you want aim assist for your controller too?

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TacticalBazza
48 minutes ago, Mariner said:

Do you want aim assist for your controller too?

???

my suggestions would make the game more mechanically difficult. faster movement = more difficult to track and hit enemies, more health = requires landing more shots to kill someone

you're the casual who wants camping in a corner, shooting someone once and them dying without any contest of mechanical skill

that seems much easier for casual players to succeed in as opposed to having extended gunfights where the person who is actually better at aiming over an extended period is more relevant to who wins the engagement

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TacticalBazza
4 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

I dont know what you're smoking but you are dead wrong sir, lol.

why? 

current gunplay isn't satisfying at all. you move super slowly and armour is irrelevant, so how good you are at aiming is irrelevant compared to how willing you are to sit in a dark corner/bush and just wait for someone to walk past or how intent you are on sound whoring.

increase movement speed, make it harder to hit people. increase health, means people won't instadie when shot once and will actually be able to turn around and outplay people or outmaneuver them. at present the TTK is so short that whoever sees who first basically auto-wins the engagement. armor is pointless because you die in 1/2 shots to the chest from pretty much any rifle through even class 5 armor. 5.45 BT/BS/7N, 7.62 PS/BP, 5.56 856A1/855A1/995, .366 AP, etc. all kill through class 5 armour in 1/2 bullets to the chest. it's not exactly high skill gap if whoever sees the other person first wins the engagement 90% of the time by shooting them once. the mechanical requirements of this game are low.

 

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TacticalBazza
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ACuddlyBadger said:

Ye he's definitely smoking something multiple times with his suggestion. 

Either that or you are way too young to have opinions on a game you aren't of age to buy yourself.

idk why 'you're too young lol' seems to be a go-to reasoning on this forum i'm 25 and have been playing FPS games since i was a kid. the simple fact is: movement in this game is slow, and you almost instantly die when shot by 1-2 bullets from basically any rifle in the game not using garbage tier ammo. thus, the optimal strategy for any given fight is to make sure you see, and shoot at, the other person first. there is very little room for mechanical outplay, when have you ever been shot at in this game and turned around and outplayed them before dying? it simply doesn't happen because of how quickly you die in this game. there is no room for outplaying your opponents through mechanical skill when fights are so heavily in favour of whoever sees and shoots first.

geez, you guys want this game to be 'hardcore' but when i propose suggestions to make it hardcore you don't like it. i don't understand, honestly. surely more hardcore = the better player wins more frequently, the opposite of that being more casual = the less skilled player can find success. tarkov's fps mechanics are extremely casual as they don't require you to actually be good at shooting or tracking targets, only hiding and sound whoring.

 it's only a hardcore experience relative to how a where's wally book is a casual experience.

Edited by TacticalBazza

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BlooDxHound
On 8/9/2020 at 7:04 PM, Awake said:

This is not true at all. At the moment there are many rounds in the game that one tap in the thorax (i.e. having 85+ damage). Let’s just name those which can be used in bolt action snipers: .366 AP, .366 FMJ, .366 Geksa, 7.62x51 Ultra Nosler, 7.52x51 BPZ FMJ, 7.62x54 7N1

In my opinion the large calibers are now at their best balanced state: Regarding hits in thorax, you can one tab people with level 2 armor and below with cheap ammo, you can one tab level 4 armor and below with expensive ammo, you need 2 hits for highend level 5 and 6 armor. This is the best balance that has been around so far. Also dont forget that bullets have a fragmentation chance which adds a chance that bullets which normaly need 2 hits in thorax to be lethal with one hit.

Lmao, 366 FMJ which cannot defeat level 3 armor so it can only one tap nakeds, same with ultra nosler, same with BPZ FMJ, same with GEKSA. In real life bullets are not 'balanced', they kill.

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Mariner
16 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

???

my suggestions would make the game more mechanically difficult. faster movement = more difficult to track and hit enemies, more health = requires landing more shots to kill someone

you're the casual who wants camping in a corner, shooting someone once and them dying without any contest of mechanical skill

that seems much easier for casual players to succeed in as opposed to having extended gunfights where the person who is actually better at aiming over an extended period is more relevant to who wins the engagement

I’m not sure if calling me a casual gamer is a slur or a compliment. If it means that I don’t spend every waking hour sat in front of a screen then I’m ok with that. Even if I had the time to do that, I wouldn’t. It certainly doesn’t mean I don’t care about the games I play, however.

The original concept (and one of the main selling points) of EFT was a game based around realistic feeling combat. That means a round or two to the chest from a rifle fits in with that narrative. There’s too many variables to create a fully realistic simulation of how the human body reacts to getting shot, so we settle for a system that allows us to suspend our disbelief. Landing multiple hits on a target only for them to simply shrug it off is fine in other games but EFT is supposed to be a different experience. In EFT it looks stupid. The same goes for movement speed and what our PMC should and shouldn’t be capable of. It’s already fast for someone in a full combat load and starts being silly when carrying a daysack/bergan full of gear.

Your suggestions would pull the game even further away from the “realistic” shooter it was initially proposed as and make it look like every other FPS out there.

There is absolutely no skill involved in being able to soak up massive amounts of damage so you can run off, heal and re-engage. The skill is moving, preferably as part of a team, in a methodical manner, staying alert to possible threats and danger areas. If you’re constantly getting shot by people in concealment, that’s on you not the game.

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TacticalBazza
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Mariner said:

I’m not sure if calling me a casual gamer is a slur or a compliment. If it means that I don’t spend every waking hour sat in front of a screen then I’m ok with that. Even if I had the time to do that, I wouldn’t. It certainly doesn’t mean I don’t care about the games I play, however.

The original concept (and one of the main selling points) of EFT was a game based around realistic feeling combat. That means a round or two to the chest from a rifle fits in with that narrative. There’s too many variables to create a fully realistic simulation of how the human body reacts to getting shot, so we settle for a system that allows us to suspend our disbelief. Landing multiple hits on a target only for them to simply shrug it off is fine in other games but EFT is supposed to be a different experience. In EFT it looks stupid. The same goes for movement speed and what our PMC should and shouldn’t be capable of. It’s already fast for someone in a full combat load and starts being silly when carrying a daysack/bergan full of gear.

Your suggestions would pull the game even further away from the “realistic” shooter it was initially proposed as and make it look like every other FPS out there.

 

you're the one who started it with your remark about aim assist for my controller, which i interpreted as you thinking i wanted the game to become easier or more casual friendly

i just don't see the issue with drawing the line of suspension of disbelief a bit further back. you're happy to accept broken legs being fixed in 5 seconds, after all. if the game was to be truly realistic, once you get shot in the leg you should be stuck at reduced movement speed until the end of the raid with no magic splints to fix you up in a matter of seconds.

in actuality, thankfully this isn't how the game works - because it would suck balls gameplay wise. this is why game design needs to be based around gameplay and not around realism. the fatal flaw of realism design is - past a certain point, the game just isn't very fun. this is because basing a game around realism creates such inherent limitations regarding what regular humans are actually capable of, and because the effort required to do things in real life is significantly greater than that required in game.

in real life, carrying a gun and heavy gear around is hard. in game, i just hold W. extending this logic to all aspects of the game means that designing a game to be as realistic as possible makes the player character extremely limited in what they can do without breaking realism, and due to the simplification of these real life actions into KB+M input, makes the skill gap of the game significantly lower.

ultimately, my point is that 'realism' is a garbage argument that can be used to attack or defend literally anything, and should not hold any weight in the discussion. 'immersive'? sure. but personally i would prefer more enjoyable gameplay to a more immersive environment. maybe you are different and want to be fully engrossed in the world of tarkov when you play.

for me, however, i want to enjoy myself, and that means i want to shoot, and be shot at by, other players, and generally have the person who is better at the shooting come off better from the encounter. at present, how good you are at shooting is one of the least significant factors for success in this game - it pales in comparison to patience - how long are you willing to sit in this corner and wait - and it's irrelevant compared to sound whoring - trying to sneak around is pointless because even when crouched at the lowest movement speed, you still make enough noise to be instantly pinpointed by anyone within a 20m radius with a headset on - and thus the optimal play is to conceal yourself and stay perfectly still. generally sluggish movement and instakill gunplay mechanics compound the problem, which to me creates an unsatisfying experience. when i shoot at, and kill someone, i derive satisfaction from knowing with a reasonable degree of certainty that i was the better player in the encounter. i don't derive satisfaction from simply seeing someone first and clicking on them once. how have i played better than them? do i deserve credit for sitting still in a bush and remaining unseen? to put it in other terms - to me, it feels like the way to 'win' in tarkov simply isn't a fun way to play, and that's the core issue.

34 minutes ago, Mariner said:

There is absolutely no skill involved in being able to soak up massive amounts of damage so you can run off, heal and re-engage. The skill is moving, preferably as part of a team, in a methodical manner, staying alert to possible threats and danger areas. If you’re constantly getting shot by people in concealment, that’s on you not the game.

this is where you're wrong. there is significantly greater skill cap in the inherent ability to turn around and out shoot someone than the encounter instantly being over. when some dude hides in a bush and shoots you once and you die, the game hasn't actually tested how good the victim is at anything other than where's wally style 'can you spot the figure in 1 of the 1000 bushes on this map?'. their gunplay mechanics haven't been compared to the other player at all - certainly not ideal for a game that seems heavily focused on guns/ammo and is an FPS at its core.

this is why arena FPSs like quake are the hardest of all - because the limitations on what the player can actually do, in the name of realism, are practically zero. the more limited the player character, the lower the mechanical skill cap. do i think tarkov should be an arena fps like quake? no, of course not. do i think it should move slightly more in that direction so that FPS mechanics are more important than they currently are? absolutely.

Edited by TacticalBazza

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TacticalBazza
1 hour ago, BlooDxHound said:

Lmao, 366 FMJ which cannot defeat level 3 armor so it can only one tap nakeds, same with ultra nosler, same with BPZ FMJ, same with GEKSA. In real life bullets are not 'balanced', they kill.

that's great but why would you ever choose to use one of those when M80/62/61 and .366 AP exist. .366 AP, by the way, is absurd - a semi auto .366 AK can one tap to the chest through class 5 (!!) armour. does that not seem kind of stupid?

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Mariner
9 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

i just don't see the issue with drawing the line of suspension of disbelief a bit further back. you're happy to accept broken legs being fixed in 5 seconds, after all. if the game was to be truly realistic, once you get shot in the leg you should be stuck at reduced movement speed until the end of the raid with no magic splints to fix you up in a matter of seconds.

I'm not happy with that, never claimed I was. I'm ok with stopping bleeds and splinting a fracture but not magic surgery to carry on as if nothing happened. If you suffer a broken limb it should mean it's time to get out, reorg and try again. If that means a reduced speed for a leg or inability to shoulder a rifle for an arm then at least that's somewhat believable.

15 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

in actuality, thankfully this isn't how the game works - because it would suck balls gameplay wise. this is why game design needs to be based around gameplay and not around realism. the fatal flaw of realism design is - past a certain point, the game just isn't very fun. this is because basing a game around realism creates such inherent limitations regarding what regular humans are actually capable of, and because the effort required to do things in real life is significantly greater than that required in game.

That's your viewpoint and perception of fun. Mine is different. I don't understand why having game mechanics that try to mimic the limitations of reality would "suck balls." 

29 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

in real life, carrying a gun and heavy gear around is hard. in game, i just hold W. extending this logic to all aspects of the game means that designing a game to be as realistic as possible makes the player character extremely limited in what they can do without breaking realism, and due to the simplification of these real life actions into KB+M input, makes the skill gap of the game significantly lower.

But what limitations do you actually mean? If it meant that jumping out of a window than bunny hopping back up a flight of stairs to shoot someone in the back of the head isn't possible then that's good thing.

49 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

ultimately, my point is that 'realism' is a garbage argument that can be used to attack or defend literally anything, and should not hold any weight in the discussion.

It's only a garbage argument for those that aren't interested in it. I'd like to bet that for a lot of the early backers of EFT the realistic aspect was the principle reason for getting involved.

I don't mind if the lines get blurred a little for some things but it all comes back to that suspension of disbelief again. The yardstick for any of the game mechanics should be "Does this look stupid?"

57 minutes ago, TacticalBazza said:

this is where you're wrong. there is significantly greater skill cap in the inherent ability to turn around and out shoot someone than the encounter instantly being over. when some dude hides in a bush and shoots you once and you die, the game hasn't actually tested how good the victim is at anything other than where's wally style 'can you spot the figure in 1 of the 1000 bushes on this map?'. their gunplay mechanics haven't been compared to the other player at all - certainly not ideal for a game that seems heavily focused on guns/ammo and is an FPS at its core.

I'm imagining when you say "turn around and outshoot someone" you mean land shots to the head. That's just gamer nonsense.

That's why aiming from anything a prone position should much, much harder. Most of the time these bushes you're so concerned about have very poor sightlines when on your belt buckle.

If you're moving through an area with lots of concealment, why are you not using it yourself? Why didn't you properly recce the area? Why should you just be able to ignore threats and rely on being able to be shot multiple times to pass through a map? 

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TacticalBazza
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Mariner said:

But what limitations do you actually mean? If it meant that jumping out of a window than bunny hopping back up a flight of stairs to shoot someone in the back of the head isn't possible then that's good thing.

Slow movement and instakill TTK are the two main limitations I'm referring to. Not everything has to be an argument to absurdity. Nobody is advocating for being able to construct gigantic castles like in Fortnite. If I get shot at, I think I should be at a disadvantage and take significant injury that is detrimental to my capacity to fight back, but I should still be able to reposition and/or actually have a chance of turning the fight if my new position or my aim is better. That's not the case currently. If I get shot at currently, that's it, game over, I'm dead. It's deeply unsatisfying.

 

43 minutes ago, Mariner said:

The yardstick for any of the game mechanics should be "Does this look stupid?"

This is where we disagree, to me, the yardstick should be 'is this enjoyable to play/does it improve the gameplay experience?'.

If Tarkov had 200% health and the inability to ADS and/or some penalty to turning speed in bushes I'd be calling it game of the century. The MMOFPS concept is sound, the utilisation of PvE objectives to incentivise players to move around the map and interact with each other is good, the gun modding is great, the persistent loot/risk of gear loss in an FPS is an excellent variation of the FPS genre.

The problem is, IMO, that the actual gunplay sucks and is unsatisfying because of the instakill TTK and incentives to camp that I've previously mentioned. I started playying Tarkov - well, mainly because all my friends are playing it - but the part that appeals to me is the MMO elements incorporated into the FPS genre. If it's realistic or not, I don't give a rats ass, as long as the gameplay (most importantly, the gunplay) is good. At the moment, I don't feel the gunplay is satisfying at all, whether you win or lose a given engagement. Wow some guy didn't see me so I shot him twice and he's dead gg. Where's the satisfaction? There's very little mechanical skill or feeling of outplay in the encounter.

 

43 minutes ago, Mariner said:

I'm imagining when you say "turn around and outshoot someone" you mean land shots to the head. That's just gamer nonsense.

I don't really know what you meant by 'gamer nonsense' so I don't really know how to address that. When I say 'turn around and outshoot someone', I mean, getting shot shouldnt be an instant game over every single time, sure if someone lands a good spray on me it should be over, but if i get hit by 1 or 2 bullets? I should be disadvantaged, sure, but if I am better at gunplay I should be able to turn and kill that person, whether that's simply flicking to them or getting to cover and returning fire or whatever. At the moment this is not feasible because you just insta die before you have a chance to determine who is better at the FPS part of the game. 

Side note, armour is literally pointless except for protection against scavs and pre-level 10s who literally cannot obtain non-garbage ammo, because 5.45 BT/BS go straight through (BT 250 roubles), 5.56 M856A/855A go straight through (855A is what, like $2.2 per bullet), 7.62 PS/BP go straight through (7.62 PS is what, 88 roubles per bullet, at least this is an ammo that new players can actually use that's not utter garbage - except they can't even buy any guns that use it, except for the unmoddable SKS from Prapor LL1). LPS Gzh and 7N1, guess what, they go straight through most armours, 400 and 700 roubles per bullet respectively. So why does armour even exist in the game other than screwing over new players?

If new players want to kill a player with armour their only options are an SKS with 7.62 PS or a Mosin with LPS Gzh. If you're fighting another player above level 10 then armour is irrelevant because they can just buy the aforementioned bullets that go straight through armors up to class 5 for like 250 roubles per bullet!

Having armour in the game only for the purpose of making it even less of a level playing field for new players doesn't seem particularly competitive or skill based to me.

 

43 minutes ago, Mariner said:

If you're moving through an area with lots of concealment, why are you not using it yourself? Why didn't you properly recce the area? Why should you just be able to ignore threats and rely on being able to be shot multiple times to pass through a map? 

This to me IS the problem. The optimal strategy is to 'use concealment' and wait for some other unsuspecting loser to walk past and then shoot them once and congrats you're a winner. It's really ducking dull and unsatisfying to be on either side of this encounter. If every single player in every raid opted for this strategy of 'using concealment' and sitting in a bush for 20 minutes, you'd have a very very boring game indeed. The instakill TTK and slow movement disincentivise actually moving around the map. Why be the guy walking around when you can instead be the guy sitting in the bush who gets to instakill the guy walking around?

The game is a boredom test. Those who have the patience to sit in a bush for 15 minutes waiting for the slightest rustle near them will do well. Those who actually go out of their way to try and encounter other players and get some god damn FPS gameplay in this FPS game get punished for doing so.

Edited by TacticalBazza

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ACuddlyBadger
7 hours ago, TacticalBazza said:

This to me IS the problem. The optimal strategy is to 'use concealment' and wait for some other unsuspecting loser to walk past and then shoot them once and congrats you're a winner.

No YOU are the problem. You've no business faulting the game when you yourself don't even understand how to utilize concealment, which is evidenced by you saying using concealment is limited to being a bush wookie. 

7 hours ago, TacticalBazza said:

When I say 'turn around and outshoot someone', I mean, getting shot shouldnt be an instant game over every single time, sure if someone lands a good spray on me it should be over, but if i get hit by 1 or 2 bullets?

Wtf is this poo, rust? Land a good spray? NO. A competent player shoots you in the back from a good position at close range, you should have a 70-90% death rate there. Your flicking and aim skill shouldn't mean poo when you get shot in the back at point blank. This isn't Rust, and thousands of people who bought EoD paid 140$ for a hardcore, REALISTIC, combat simulator. Go skidaddle on out to another game if you don't like that. 

7 hours ago, TacticalBazza said:

I started playying Tarkov - well, mainly because all my friends are playing it

🤣 how often do you let people sucker you into spending money on products you don't understand? Advertisers must love you!

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Delicious_Tea

@TacticalBazza

Everything you've talked about with soaking up damage and having a good gun fight and making it fast just screams COD. I get that your friends are playing Tarkov, but it seems that you would be much happier with a COD-type game. Why come to the game even with your friends and then want to change the effectively anti-COD game out there into COD?

 

On to the post's original point, I do think that sniper bullets should be devastating. Although I do think that bullet drag, angles, and wind speed should play effect into it to essentially counter their massive damage. I never ran in with only a Mosin rifle, but I also have no issue with Mosin players as while they had great damage, they were easily overrun up close and limited by the bolt action speed. It is bothersome that LPS was the cheapest option with SNB being right above it, yet SNB is considerably worse than LPS. Being forced into using 7N1 for all intents and purposes when sniping to make any effective damage is a bit disheartening. The goal of a sniper is to provide cover for team mates and, when needed, to be able to dispatch a hostile quickly. When a naked running hatchling can take a sniper round and keep running at full speed, it just shows how much more towards arcade-style games that EFT has gone.

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