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Penguinmu

Hacking has ruined this game and made it pointless to play anymore.

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Penguinmu

As the title says, the sheer amount of hackers in tarkov, specifically the OCE servers, have made Tarkov pointless to play any further, specifically Shoreline ,Customs and Labs have become a ducking joke to play on, gear has become nothing but a money sink for 0 profit effectively making the end game pointless and (Even though I love it) FIR has done nothing but make legitimate players poorer with the torrential influx of chinese hackers in the OCE servers.

I intentionally took today/tonight off because i'm so bored of just getting wall hacked, shot from no where, getting insta head tapped from 300 meters away or one of the newest iv'e found, having speed hackers clear maps of loot in under 2 minutes, so today i took the day off and decided about 2 hours ago to try a raid again tonight, it's  4:30am in Australia so I thought "Can't be many hackers on at this time" Lo and ducking behold after killing 4 geared players in resort and being able to loot all of the rooms I was on my way out and made it to just passed abandoned village when I got lazered in the chest by a standard account with a chinese name from well over 200 meters away at cottages who as i was dying seemingly sprinted straight up to my corpse and begun looting my body before i'd even finished the death animation. 

On my second foray into running gear tonight I went to  labs, I spawned in, got maybe 4 steps down a hallway and received 6 BS bullets to my face shield from a guy already shooting as he came around the corner about 80 meters away, so yeah that was great, great use of 1.3 million rouble kit. 



This has been about 80% of my runs in the past 3 days, and considering I actually like playing the game with full kits, iv'e tallied how much iv'e lost from hackers in the past 3 days, 23,199,594 roubles, 9,457 euros and finally 32,591 dollars, usually half of that could last a person an entire wipe, now it can't even last you three ducking days on the OCE servers, iv'e reported so many accounts that iv'e just stopped bothering at this point because they just seem to pop straight back up since BSG won't take any real measures to fix the hackers, and I honestly don't see the point in attempting to play Tarkov anymore since the end game is just losing gear to hackers with a standard Ak74u. 

After 3,000 hours in the game and supporting it for years, I can honestly say the worst thing that ever happened to Tarkov was getting popular because it's now apparent BSG just doesn't have the resources to do anything meaningful apart from banning accounts after the fact to "fix" the problem that only gets worse as time goes on.

And before i hear the usual "It's a beta or where's your constructive criticism" According to BSG, Tarkov has been "Fully funded" for years, so turn off sales and start inviting people like an actual beta or require personal verification to be able to buy an account, both things they'll never do but would fix the problem overnight. 

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ferguswag
6 minutes ago, Penguinmu said:

iv'e tallied how much iv'e lost from hackers in the past 3 days, 23,199,594 roubles, 9,457 euros and finally 32,591 dollars

Lol

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BruxiePC

I have play on US East servers and rarely encounter speed hackers, but I def encounter radar pricks all the time

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392Shaker

If BSG wants this game to survive they need to do something fast.

3 raids today I got the east wing rush spawn on shoreline, sprinted directly to it and the entire wing was looted and nobody was around. Literally under 2 mins of raid time had expired.

i'm happy the twitch drops brought popularity to Tarkov but I do not think BSG was prepared for it, and that should have waited until a full release of the game with an anti cheat system that actually works and instantly IP bans so that these cheaters aren't getting weeks of use from a copy of the game, this practice has apparently lead cheat makers to offer free EOD replacement with proof of ban. If the bans were instant they would not be able to afford to dole out EOD editions everyday and most of the hackers would not be able to afford it.

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TUALMASOK

Hackers on OCE are getting a bit out of hand, but I'm not seeing them with the same frequency as OP, probably because I don't play as much as I used to - because of hackers. I don't mind legitimate deaths, but having someone lasering rounds at your head when you are behind a tree or a rock is just stupid. 

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RootRevelRepeat

Tonight is awful. My friends and I are just playing something else until this is fixed. Every match we played we encountered hackers. Lost millions 

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chrisragnar

If you can just spend 23mil in three days it seems if there were no hackers rubles would be completely trivial to you. Seems like another issue that needs a solution just as much.

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Penguinmu
2 hours ago, chrisragnar said:

If you can just spend 23mil in three days it seems if there were no hackers rubles would be completely trivial to you. Seems like another issue that needs a solution just as much.

After 4 years of the game money is pretty trivial to me, making money has always been easy for me even with the FIR changes, for example my scav box full of bitcoins, the problem is that there's no reason to farm atm since buying gear almost inevitably  ends up being lost to hackers.

For example, my stash is still huge but I have no desire to take any of it out or sell anything because it's almost a certainty that it's gonna be lost to hackers so iv'e just been saving it up which is why i titled the forum post that tarkov is becoming pointless cause I still have a poo load of resources but have no desire to use them. 


image.thumb.png.2a577c897cdc0db0ed12d39373cd969c.png

 

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Daviidov95

This game isn't really a game anymore. GIT GUD, are the people telling other to spend many hours a day for the game learning the maps and everything. if you do that you are wasting your life. the time you spend learning on tarkov go study or do an extra job, you'll have way more fun doing that and more money than learning a stupid game full of freaks who have no life nor the desire to acomplish something meaningfull in life. Games are fun time flys by but not with tarkov, this isn't a game this is a fulltime job.

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Virtual_Icarus

just went in to labs and encountered a hacker. radar and aim bot. Damn shame.

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ANIMAL_MOTHER_0
Posted (edited)

 

On 8/11/2020 at 7:04 PM, BruxiePC said:

I have play on US East servers and rarely encounter speed hackers, but I def encounter radar pricks all the time

My brother all we do is see hackers NA east every day. Its a global cheat fest ATM.

Edited by ANIMAL_MOTHER_0
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GhostZ69

Funny to see how some of the guys he KNOWS are cheaters are just hiding.  This is what I try to tell people.  Not every Skiddie out there is trying to run around the map and kill everything.   The guy on reserve is just sitting in the building waiting on him.  There is the guy in Labs that wiggles to get hit to leave him alone.  The other guys that he just lets go.  This is why I tell people you NEVER know if there was a skiddie on the map or not.  They can just run and get the loot, or AFK in a corner and wait for everyone else to leave and then farm the rest of the map.  Hell, the guy even kills one hacker on the map and then gets killed by another hacker.  If you were in that match you would never known there was three skiddies on the map.

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tobiassolem

As you guys have mentioned, cheating is always going to be a big hurdle for this game for two primary reasons:

  1. Permanent loss - losing everything you're carrying is one of the main strengths of the game, it adds A LOT of tension and provides an intense emotional immersion with the game. It's one of the main reasons why you get adrenaline rushes both when taking out a squad (for example) and get to grab their stuff, but the same thing can be said when dying, taking a loss or failing at some task that required a lot of work
  2. Lack of information - not knowing how you died is a big part of having a hard time accepting a loss, psychologically. If there's even a chance, no matter how remote that something other than your own mistake caused your death, projecting said mistake onto something else is a comfort/reasonable defense - having access to that information (eg. post raid) would clear up a lot of things and make it much more easy to cope with

Not all cheater deaths are as clear and blatant as shown by having your eyes on reddit on the regular. Some cheaters clearly do a lot to mask their behaviour. And the numbers speak for themselves, there have never been so many cheaters in Escape From Tarkov, but then again - there has never been so many players playing EFT.

The disproportionate experiences is partially to blame for why some people dismiss cheating. Generally Labs has been the map where cheaters roam (and ruin the gameplay), this has been a known fact. But when even the cheaters start avoiding Labs (instead going to Reserve) it is coming to a point where its a matter of time before the issue grows to a destructive point.

Some of you have probably paid attention to reddit, where people who cheat pay extreme premium fees to get sophisticated software that is developed by people who work full-time "breaking into" BSG's system. By premium I mean around 300-500 dollars a month. Given the target audience (age group specifically) there is a bigger proportion of the player base willing to "perform" at this game than in many other games. Particularly because the rewards for succeeding (killing the enemy) are high. This is also why the issue is further exasperated by these gains being profitable in a real life money sense.

 

Is BSG aware of the situation - have they seen everything?

Many of us in the team are as passionate about the game as you are. We Emissaries spend 3, 6, 9 hours a day going through the community and reporting the concerns. We see the same videos spread over reddit and other social media. The same thing goes for the developers inside BSG. They are acutely aware of what is happening. This isn't just Nikita's brain child, its all of BSG, including moderators, Sherpas, many streamers and Emissaries. Everyone of these people wants this game to succeed.

What is BSG doing about the situation?

Since a lot of people are at a point where they have a hard time keeping track of all the information about the current goings in the development of the game, it can probably FEEL like that BSG are doing "nothing". This is however false. And while it is rhetorically simple to say this - it ignores the overwhelmingly complex situation that BSG are dealing with at the moment.

With the gain of popularity, BSG has gotten a lot of attention, and with that attention the innovation that BSG made in terms of the anti-cheat. This is what BSG has done over the past year:

  • Switched from (slow) manual bans (ban lists) to an automated system
  • Listening to the community about solutions (eg. the necessity for a better report-system in-game)
  • Contracted a third party anti-cheat developer with plenty of experience
  • Worked close with said third party to adapt this anti-cheat to EFT
  • Re-tasked a lot of the companies resources who were developing the game to working with the anti-cheat AND RMT
  • Blocking off shady VPN's, and working to shut down the promotion materials spread for cheats and RMT
  • Re-working the in-game mechanisms to severely limit the possibilities to RMT
  • Introducing two report systems (one via the in-game launcher, one via the game (in the after-action report)

The work against the cheaters is something BSG has clearly understood is of massive importance. But it is ALWAYS a race against the clock. And even though there are no daily reports of the progress, the battle is on-going. With each small update, there are new updates to the methods of detection and banning.

But as has been said and stated over and over. The pendulum will swing back once again. As it has many times before. Once one of these premium cheats has been detected, and the accounts using it, banned. Once more will life in Tarkov be simpler and more cheat free. Until once again these people who profit from selling these expensive cheats find another loop hole that needs to be plugged.

 

Is Escape From Tarkov ever going to be cheat-free?

Without any sense of resignation. No. It is, and always will be an ongoing battle with periods of victories and defeats. Of course BSG can make crippling changes to the game that diminish the "fruits" gained by cheating, but as the community has already experienced - this will also affect the VAST MAJORITY that is NOT cheating.

 

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Penguinmu

I can understand your point, however the problem is less about the fact that people are using hacks and more about the catastrophic damage it causes in this specific game, tarkov doesn't have unofficial servers, it only has the main servers and as such we can't simply move away from them, we're forced to play with hackers, every game has hackers but not every game is an MMO where the direct result of hacking is your loss of ability to function within the game.

For example take it that World of warcraft had the ability that in PvP you dropped your gear if you were killed, the time investment in tarkov is roughly the same to raiding mythic, hundreds of hours per wipe, if they could steal your gear in Warcraft it'd be catastrophic to say the least.

This is the level it's getting to in Tarkov, the impact of the hackers is becoming a catastrophe to the player base, even to people like me who have been playing since 2016, know every inch of every map, every gun modification, every bullet, every mechanic and every loot spawn there is it means nothing anymore because of hackers, this effectively makes the game unplayable as you can't just simply throw on an endless supply of kits like you can in other games, the hacking in tarkov is specifically bad BECAUSE of the time investment that's needed to get to the end game, that as you've seen and i've seen can be wiped away in as little as a week.

I can understand BSG has a lot on their plate with development, but frankly this is just more important than anything else, at the moment the game plays great, with more optimization it'd be close to perfect but this is becoming overshadowed because of hackers, it's very swiftly become the biggest problem in Tarkov, not just a problem, THE problem and I say THE problem because it's making the rest of the problems(And successes) trivial by comparison. 

The problem of "Crippling changes" is that it can't be more crippling then it is now, you have people like me and entire squads who are saying after 4 years "You know what it's just not worth it anymore" and it's gonna take one big streamer or youtuber to say this and the domino effect will take it's course, crippling changes are already here whether you guys like it or not, the state of tarkov is that hackers are winning, they're stealing your game from you and pushing away your player base and newcomers to the game.

I can fully respect what BSG is "Attempting" to do, but it's not working, it just isn't, their anti cheat and battle eye just doesn't work, the waves of hackers that are coming into the game at the moment is becoming a tsunami, it's starting to destroy everything the game has built in the past 4 years and it's getting to the point where you HAVE to make changes that affect the game for everyone, even if it's just for a while, whether it's turning off sales so people can only be invited or getting rid of the flea market or making it so that "End game" items can't be traded between players at all, you guys have to do something,  this constant "we're currently working on the problem" doesn't mean poo to people who are losing their stashes to hackers, the problem has been "worked on" since 0.12, with honestly from my eyes 0 improvement to fixing it, it just keeps getting worse.

Obviously i'm a little biased here because I do (rather did) play a poo load of tarkov every week so I see more hackers than the casual 2 or 3 hour player ever does, ( current raids this wipe is  959  ) but like I said in the initial post, the game is becoming pointless because in a game where time and economy matters almost as much as actually playing the game, for it to be completely circumvented for almost a year straight now by a problem that should of been fixed years ago so that people can't alter the client to such an insane extent on a live service game that it boggles the mind, is not only utterly defeating but makes it feel like that no matter how good tarkov gets, the weapons the maps, the playstyles, the loot, basically everything that makes tarkov, tarkov, is gonna be a side note to the constant and every growing barrage of hackers that BSG just don't seem equipped to deal with at this point. 

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tobiassolem

Good post @Penguinmu!

6 minutes ago, Penguinmu said:

I can understand BSG has a lot on their plate with development, but frankly this is just more important than anything else, at the moment the game plays great, with more optimization it'd be close to perfect but this is becoming overshadowed because of hackers, it's very swiftly become the biggest problem in Tarkov, not just a problem, THE problem and I say THE problem because it's making the rest of the problems(And successes) trivial by comparison. 

Nikita and the team understands this. It's a dilemma however, as Nikita has stated many times - they want to make the game, but they also want the people currently testing the game in development to have a good experience (with as few cheaters as possible) in doing so. Every time Nikita has expressed his priorities, the cheating situation has been #1.

9 minutes ago, Penguinmu said:

I can fully respect what BSG is "Attempting" to do, but it's not working, it just isn't, their anti cheat and battle eye just doesn't work, the waves of hackers that are coming into the game at the moment is becoming a tsunami, it's starting to destroy everything the game has built in the past 4 years and it's getting to the point where you HAVE to make changes that affect the game for everyone, even if it's just for a while, whether it's turning off sales so people can only be invited or getting rid of the flea market or making it so that "End game" items can't be traded between players at all, you guys have to do something,  this constant "we're currently working on the problem" doesn't mean poo to people who are losing their stashes to hackers, the problem has been "worked on" since 0.12, with honestly from my eyes 0 improvement to fixing it, it just keeps getting worse.

This however is not true. It does work. If it didn't work, you would be drowning in cheap to $50/month level 61 cheaters everywhere. A LOT of cheat developers have closed down shop (for different reasons) where others are in dormancy trying to get past the anti-cheat, trying to develop new means. The current measures are like a thin mesh, catching most cheaters, but missing some that slip by.

Again, the cheats that do work COST between 300-500$/month to use. I don't know about you, but that's probably outside of most people's budgets. But what is required currently to support a "cheating lifestyle".

 

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NmHansen
2 hours ago, tobiassolem said:

Again, the cheats that do work COST between 300-500$/month to use. I don't know about you, but that's probably outside of most people's budgets. But what is required currently to support a "cheating lifestyle".

 

And cheats are worth it if they can make REAL money on it.

The root of the problem is the flea market. And if you cant get rid of ALL the cheaters, then it just get profitable for the ones you dont catch.

please stop the BS and remove the flea market.

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ImDOPE
Posted (edited)

Yeah im leaving this game too soon.

In every bad situation where its obvious that the company is doing wrong they bring stuff like "the megathread for hackers" to calm down the community for another 5 months. Than they bring a report system to hope the community eats it again for another few months.

While we have the major issue with hackers, the game is running poo, still. The game has the same big buggs for years.

We get more hackers with different new hacks like Radar and even big streamers use radar and no one cares.

BSG has not the ability to track a few ingame stats to detected hacker pattern?

The game is staying alife because of his unique gameplay but for how long?

Imagen working as a moderator and getting payed for lying all day. how can you like yourself.

Edited by ImDOPE

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LenzOA
6 hours ago, tobiassolem said:

This however is not true. It does work.

 

i play on asia servers, and the pure amount of people who just aimbot and wallhack the whole server down is like every 3rd or 4th map. and i only play customs...

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tobiassolem
21 minutes ago, ImDOPE said:

Imagen working as a moderator and getting payed for lying all day. how can you like yourself.

Harsh.

First of all, no moderator or Emissary gets paid for what they do.

Second of all, the vast majority of cheaters get banned. That's no lie.

 

8 minutes ago, LenzOA said:

i play on asia servers, and the pure amount of people who just aimbot and wallhack the whole server down is like every 3rd or 4th map. and i only play customs...

:/ - I feel for you man, I really hope BSG can address this.

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DroogKris
7 hours ago, tobiassolem said:

As you guys have mentioned, cheating is always going to be a big hurdle for this game...

 

This can be solved in 2 words..."Kill Cam"

Most of the "cheating" is probably just people not knowing how the F they died.  The hard ass insistence of this mystery is detrimental to the game not contributory.  It has NO effect on game play if you just make it so the victim has to wait until the end of the raid to see it if they want to.  That way there can be no Discord call-outs.  

So I bet the vast majority of the cheating work load can just be completely eliminated by not insisting on being the only FPS in existence that doesn't have this ubiquitous feature...and it's likely ubiquitous for this very reason. 
 

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inabearsuit
41 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Second of all, the vast majority of cheaters get banned. That's no lie.

And then they buy a new copy of the game and keep cheating because RMT. Yeah, plenty of accounts get banned in the waves... but they just make new accounts and keep cheating. Therefor the number of cheaters doesn't change.

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LenzOA
1 hour ago, tobiassolem said:

Second of all, the vast majority of cheaters get banned. That's no lie.

 

i agree, but the question is when. if someone gets banned after 1-2 month and they have to pay hundreds of $ for the cheat itself but only 30$ for the game, you cant talk about banning them. you just annoy them so they have to buy a new game, make a couple of raids so they are lvl 10 and then everything is back to normal as if they were not banned. the state the asia servers are in is a joke, and everyone who says otherwise needs to be corrected. i dont even play labs or reserve and its not playable.

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GhostZ69
2 hours ago, tobiassolem said:

Second of all, the vast majority of cheaters get banned. That's no lie.

I like you and all man...  But how can you even substantiate that?  Seriously?  If true, this implies that BSG and in turn you know how many people are hacking they just CHOOSE not to ban them.  OR no one knows how many people are really cheating and therefore the statement is false.  If you do not know how many are really hacking how can you say that the "vast majority" get banned?

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traumacode
6 hours ago, NmHansen said:

And cheats are worth it if they can make REAL money on it.

The root of the problem is the flea market. And if you cant get rid of ALL the cheaters, then it just get profitable for the ones you dont catch.

please stop the BS and remove the flea market.

 

This is exactly the point.  People are making an investment with the hopes that they won't get caught and can actually profit from the investment.  Take away the investment option, and people won't be able to invest.

 

Just make the game so that things can be barter traded.  Whatever you find can be eventually used to barter for the item you need for quests (or make multiple barter options for the same item that is comparable monetarily).

 

Diablo 3 failed with it's auction market and they ultimately removed it.  The game became so much better after this happened.  I know it's a different game with different goals/reasons for spending real money, but the end solution was the same: make it so that each player can independently play the game and get what they need to advance their characters without depending on a market.

 

In the end, I think everyone will be happier that way.

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inabearsuit
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, traumacode said:

Diablo 3 failed with it's auction market and they ultimately removed it.  The game became so much better after this happened.  I know it's a different game with different goals/reasons for spending real money, but the end solution was the same: make it so that each player can independently play the game and get what they need to advance their characters without depending on a market.

The only way for any online game to maintain a player economy without bots, farmers, hackers, etc, is to implement an RCE. And in a game like this, where 98% of the game is PVP, that means you now have a P2W system. And no one is going to want to play that except for whales. I can only think of one successful game in history (an mmo, its been around for 17 years) with a functional RCE that allows players to deposit and withdraw money (backed by the developer) - and that game is 98% PVE, so nobody cares about the few PVPers with good gear because players can just stay away from the designated PVP zones.

 

In this game, the best way to combat RMT and stay away from P2W is to remove the flea market. Maybe allowing player-to-player to trading will be sufficient, since we can be more discerning about who it is we are trading with. Or, remove trading all together and force players to work with what they loot or what dealers have to offer. To me, that sounds even better because it makes competition even stronger. Players should sweat every time they die as opposed to jumping back to the flea market and dropping a quick million or two to be re-geared like nothing happened.

Edited by inabearsuit
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