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Majlo

My proposed secure container changes & Opinions POLL

Secure container opinions POLL  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. How would you like the secure containers to function?

    • Majlo's "more restrictive idea" (If you want to use anything out of the secure container, you have to take it out of it. No using meds, loading ammo, or using keys from your butt. If you want to use something, you need to take it out and risk it.)
      8
    • Majlo's "minimum wanted change" (You can NOT put ANYTHING in it when in a raid, you can only take things out. That means if you take out your meds or whatever you have in there, it's not going back in, and neither is any loot you find in the raid.)
      12
    • Keep the secure containers as is
      25
    • The secure containers should have less restrictions than they do currently
      13
    • Your own idea (Comment below.)
      6


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Majlo

Hello my fellow ex-PMCs and Tarkov scavengers!

I would like to get your opinions on the secure container and what the community thinks about possible change.

 

I'm personally thinking secure containers should work like this:

When in stash/hideout/off-raid, you can put literally whatever you want as long as it is not physically bigger than the secure container.

The catch? You can NOT put ANYTHING in it when in a raid, you can only take things out. That means if you take out your meds, ammo, or whatever you have in there, it's not going back in, and neither is any loot you find in the raid.

I would also like to see more restrictions to the secure container, but the above is the minimum change I would personally like to see.

As for said more restrictions:

I think if you want to use anything out of the secure container, you have to take it out of it. No using meds, loading ammo, or using keys from your butt. If you want to use something, you need to take it out and risk it.

 

What's your opinions?

Do you think my "more restrictive" take on the secure containers would be good for the game? Do you think my "minimum change" is the perfect compromise?

Or do you think it's perfect as is right now? Or maybe even that the current restrictions are too much? Or maybe you have your very own idea on how the secure containers should work, comment below!

 

Link to equivalent post on the EscapefromTarkov subreddit

 

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chrisragnar

I'd rather see it replaced by hidden pockets where you can equip a keytool, docs case or sicc. Maby have 2-3 hidden pocket slots. And maby invent some other special containers, like one that holds transmitters and other quest items.

Sins it's already restricted to stop abuse by hiding some sights etc. It should just move away from hidden ammo storage as well. Then maby we won't see as much expensive ammo used.

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Majlo
3 minutes ago, chrisragnar said:

I'd rather see it replaced by hidden pockets where you can equip a keytool, docs case or sicc. Maby have 2-3 hidden pocket slots. And maby invent some other special containers, like one that holds transmitters and other quest items.

I don't think secure containers are ever going to be removed, and neither would I like them too myself.

My idea is that the secure container should be used less/not at all as a looting tool, but instead as a reserve of extras (that would still be risked if ever needing to be used).

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1Widerstandny

Closed in Raid for all SC. You can put meds, keys or ammo in the SC, but only Off-Raid. In-Raid the SC is closed.... Like the event some wipe prior or your 2nd vote

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TheHappyMile

The container's restrictions stay. You have to take meds and ammo out if you want to use them. Keys and special-items could stay as they are.

If you want to take out or put in any item, there is an animation that takes e.g. 15 Seconds per slot. Put in a bitcoin - 15 seconds. Take out a stack of ammo - 15 seconds. Put in a horese - 30 seconds, battery - 1:30.

Alternative would be standard-timer for all items 

Edited by TheHappyMile
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GeneralBrus

Step 1: allow everything to be put into the secured container, besides guns.

Step 2 : get rid of fleemarket.

Step 3 : completely get rid of super rare items by making them not rare / spawn all the time (no one should pay 50000$ for a bloody "ice pick"

Step 4 : make guns much more expensive

Step 5: more high lootspawns with guns guarded by scavs and raiders.

Step 6 : create a class of rare unique weapons that can only be found in raid like an94 or fn2000, AA12 ,AK 107 ,old ww2 guns like svt and stg44, semi auto lapua rifles and so on.

Results:

The only expensive items would be guns , and since ledx type of treasures arent worth a fortune anymore the secured container would only be used for progressing in your quest lines and finding stuff for your hideout.

So:

1. More rewarding pvp and surviving raids because guns cant go into the secured container.

2. Less grindy quests and more focus on actually playing the game.

3. No more hatchling runs because rolex and ledx are not super expensive anymore. Killing scavs and getting some weapons is a bigger challenge anyways and thus should be more rewarding.

4. Mandatory equipment like AP ammo,  armor, helmets, sights would be cheap and accessible so that low skill players could still have a fair chance against chads, while the god like upper class chads could enjoy using the super cool better but not op guns basically every raid.

...what you say too extreme changes you say? Hm hm yeah you guys are right, lets just create more crazy game mechanics and restrictions! Fighting symptoms instead of fighting the root of the problem sounds easier.

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DukeLander
2 hours ago, chrisragnar said:

I'd rather see it replaced by hidden pockets where you can equip a keytool, docs case or sicc. Maby have 2-3 hidden pocket slots. And maby invent some other special containers, like one that holds transmitters and other quest items.

Sins it's already restricted to stop abuse by hiding some sights etc. It should just move away from hidden ammo storage as well. Then maby we won't see as much expensive ammo used.

Hidden pockets , good idea .

Use sc like hidden pockets , items only returns with insurance.

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Majlo
2 hours ago, HijackDallas said:

Closed in Raid for all SC. You can put meds, keys or ammo in the SC, but only Off-Raid. In-Raid the SC is closed.... Like the event some wipe prior or your 2nd vote

It's unfortunate that said event was a pre-wipe event for a couple of days instead of as an after-wipe event for a couple of weeks.

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tobiassolem

I remember when Klean suggested this a long time ago, someone said: "This will only lead to more people just sprinting to loot locations, and then running to extract". Personally I think there are two reasons for such behaviour:

1. The loot people put in their containers is not protected (ie. by AI), and thus you don't need to protect yourself to get it.

2. There's little reason to bring expensive gear or to stay in a raid if you're there just to fill your secure container

 

To solve this, we need to add more threats around good loot. You should have to risk more to get more. If you are held back and can't get into resort without having to fight some raiders for example to get that ledX (thus drawing attention to yourself). This allows for people with "bad spawns" to have a chance to make it there - and increases the possibility of multiple opposing forces.

 

As for the mechanic with the secure container itself, it seems it is more important to make it so that when you actually put something in your magical pocket, that you had to really struggle to do that. Getting shot by some annoying exit-campers for example will lead to more griefing should this mechanic be introduced. I'm not saying I'm against the idea (If I designed this game, there would be no secure container in the first place) - I'm just saying that it has multiple purposes other than just "chucking good loot" in it and not having to risk anything.

Perhaps by making looting more meaningful in terms of risk vs. reward instead would solve these issues?

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Majlo
32 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

...what you say too extreme changes you say? Hm hm yeah you guys are right, lets just create more crazy game mechanics and restrictions! Fighting symptoms instead of fighting the root of the problem sounds easier.

The root of the problem in this case is exactly what my suggested changes are fighting.

The root problem in this case being the gameplay of loot exiting the map without extracting just because someone was able to put it in their secure container first.

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1Widerstandny
vor 1 Minute schrieb Majlo:

It's unfortunate that said event was a pre-wipe event for a couple of days instead of as an after-wipe event for a couple of weeks.

and it was a good time. You can get your own LEDX kill for any hatchling on Ressort

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Majlo
2 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Perhaps by making looting more meaningful in terms of risk vs. reward instead would solve these issues?

The thing about that is the moment the item is put in the container, the risk of that particular item is gone.

Even if you do somehow end up having fixed all other issues, that issue will still remain.

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ACuddlyBadger

Using keys should not require you to remove them from your secure container imo. Sure, it goes both ways so I would steal keys just as much as I lose them, but to new players they will get farmed for keys and will rarely get them. On the other hand, I should be able to kill someone while they are unlocking a door to steal the key they are using.

Otherwise nothing should ever be able to enter a SC in raid. And ammo should require being taken out of the SC to use. 

Otherwise I 100% agree with taking away the ability to use a SC for looting.

 

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tobiassolem
Just now, Majlo said:

The thing about that is the moment the item is put in the container, the risk of that particular item is gone.

Even if you do somehow end up having fixed all other issues, that issue will still remain.

My point was that if you ie. killed the guards to get to that item, then that was the risk you "spent" for said reward. Losing that reward because there's a guy who is patient at one exit might feel cheap to the new guys (I don't care personally - I consider most of everything I have "pixels in a test phase").

The idea of having a magic pocket for things in general just seems strange to me. Even for the keys or keycards. These things have too much in-game value. If I was armed in a military zone trying to survive and knowing a certain area had the things I needed to survive. I wouldn't care about keys or keycards. I'd use a shotgun, crowbar or explosive to gain access to what I needed, not search for keys (unless it was very obvious).

But I digress. The container is there for the new guys mostly imo. - and when you're a new guy and in the situation where what you put in your container is your ONLY way to make money (because you die all the time). Then that's probably one of the reasons why the mechanic is there in the first place.

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ACuddlyBadger
Just now, tobiassolem said:

Losing that reward because there's a guy who is patient at one exit might feel cheap to the new guys

I think exit camping is a beast of its own. In a realistic situation, people will find whatever creative ways to infil/exfil from locations. Tarkov doesn't accurate portray this. Ambush predators are and should be a thing, in the form of extract campers as they are in real life; lynxes lie in wait along small game trails. The Lynx had to search for that game trail, and the hares are free to change their route to remain hard to catch. In Tarkov extracts are too few, too straightforward to access through a predictable route, and they are always consistent. This makes it so the lynx doesn't have to search for game trails, and so that the hare cannot change its route to be unpredictable. 

I would expect extracts to ultimately become randomized, and entirely unlisted. Maybe PMC's would be required to scout out extracts before they became weighed down with loot. Maybe an extract is any area that you can get out of the map border with; since every map has a walled border. It can be as simple as a random dumpster jump spot, as complex as a puzzle, maybe it is an ATV that requires a fuel can to use. Maybe its just an open highway, except there could be a random event where scavs are sent to guard it. 

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Majlo
41 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

But I digress. The container is there for the new guys mostly imo

I fundamentally disagree on that part. Actual new players don't use the secure container as a looting crutch. They wouldn't know what to put in it or what is worth what in the first place, no...

The container is there as a crutch for "bad" players and "cheesers" who already have the experience and know exactly how to "abuse" the secure container.

In my experience, the secure container isn't a way for those who can't get money any other way to still get money (that is what scav mode is for), it's a crutch for "bad" players to never have to learn how to get "good".

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GeneralBrus
4 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

My point was that if you ie. killed the guards to get to that item, then that was the risk you "spent" for said reward. Losing that reward because there's a guy who is patient at one exit might feel cheap to the new guys (I don't care personally - I consider most of everything I have "pixels in a test phase").

The idea of having a magic pocket for things in general just seems strange to me. Even for the keys or keycards. These things have too much in-game value. If I was armed in a military zone trying to survive and knowing a certain area had the things I needed to survive. I wouldn't care about keys or keycards. I'd use a shotgun, crowbar or explosive to gain access to what I needed, not search for keys (unless it was very obvious).

But I digress. The container is there for the new guys mostly imo. - and when you're a new guy and in the situation where what you put in your container is your ONLY way to make money (because you die all the time). Then that's probably one of the reasons why the mechanic is there in the first

Agree 100%

 i started playing just when alpha ended and the secured container seemed like a weird mechanic to me at first, however i realized it fixed something that was frustrating in games like dayz. It made the game less punishing for new players without taking the reward from the guy that got the kill.

However because of all the streamers that bombarded the community whit all these "easy money loot guide" videos the hatchling problem got created.

And since BSG is still not sure how to really fix it, it remains to be a problem.

Also worth noting: since usefull ammo increased in price from 4$ to some even over 10$ a shot, and lvl 5 armor from 100k to 300k roubles there is ofc a bigger need to make money.

While all the found in raid mechanics and the cursed and tagged stuff has made it less desirable to do hatched runs ,running to the high loot areas and getting there first without fighting and securing that said loot with or without the secured container - is and stays the most effective way to make money.

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GeneralBrus
7 minutes ago, Majlo said:

I fundamentally disagree on that part. Actual new players don't use the secure container as a looting crutch. They wouldn't know what to put in it or what is worth what in the first place, no...

The container is there as a crutch for "bad" players and "cheesers" who already have the experience and know exactly how to "abuse" the secure container.

In my experience, the secure container isn't a way for those who can't get money any other way to still get money (that is what scav mode is for), it's a crutch for "bad" players to never have to learn how to get "good".

And thats the thing, you are right that its being used by cheesers but you are wrong by saying its supposed to be like that, the secured container has always been designed for beginners that struggle with the game.

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Majlo
Just now, GeneralBrus said:

And thats the thing, you are right that its being used by cheesers but you are wrong by saying its supposed to be like that, the secured container has always been designed for beginners that struggle with the game.

It might have started out with good intentions, but even then, those good intentions breaks the balance of the looting and extracting gameplay, and has since the very beginning (just to a lesser degree, as less people used it as a full on wheelchair).

Instead of the secure container looting crutch and breaking the balance, some other crutch, only really useful for true beginners/newbies should've been made.

Take the "Prapor gives you a gun and a handful of just barely good enough ammo when you've got literally nothing". That should've been developed further into the crutch the true beginners need, not the secure container.

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GhostZ69

Honestly, this whole argument covers way too many things for any kind of "simple" solution.  Personally, I like the most restrictive idea but with one caveat.  Keys used from the secure container are only lootable during the "unlock phase" ie when they walk up to the door and hit the "unlock" button, and for about two to maybe 5 seconds afterward.  After that, we can say they shoved the already well greased key back into their arse.  That way it at least makes them to have/want to check the area before just sprinting up and hitting the unlock button and then start shoving poo up their arse, or since we are locking that now, before sprinting away towards the extract.

Honestly, if the game was optimzied, and we had the original amount of scav's on maps, and we had a few of them replaced with raiders, and randomized loot and randomized extracts.  There is no simple fix that is going to "fix" that Tarkov is a Loot and Murder fest game and not the survive and extract game it was originally sold as.  There have been way too many "bad" design choices, and way too many "There was no way to know this was going to be a terrible freaking idea" choices made.  With a game that was as unique as Tarkov was 4 years ago, they had no idea how many choices they were making were going to be "bad" in the end.  NO FREAKING WAY they could know.  However, there have been a chain of recent choices that we bad and they "should" have known they were bad.  But, not much we can do about it. 

We can only hope that at some point, Nikita throws his hands up and just finally freaking says he is going to stop slapping band aids on poo, leave the game as it is for those to keep playing, and work on what they game really should have been.

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mattix

So your suggesting removing the only usefulness of containers? I didn't like the last nerf, because it made looting even more painful.

Keep it as is.

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RichardKeerman

I have an unpopular idea. Remove them completely. No more hatchet running, helps fighting against RMT, and makes the playing field equal to everyone. People will give their best shot to survive, adapt and overcome the difficulty.

That's how the game was portrayed to us in the first place.

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Cobain1234
vor 24 Minuten schrieb RichardKeerman:

I have an unpopular idea. Remove them completely. No more hatchet running, helps fighting against RMT, and makes the playing field equal to everyone. People will give their best shot to survive, adapt and overcome the difficulty.

 

If you do that, the PvP in this game dies with the SC.

If I had made this game, there wouldnt be a single item in the economy that costs more than 50K.

Most of the problems this game has have the sole reason that items are expensive for no reason.

Money should be next to useless in this game.

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SubaruFan

The game becomes hard and harder with heavy bleeds and restrictions to containers. It should not be easy by any means, but it should not be virtually unplayable for a large playerbase. Those who want harder and more challanging game should notice that after all it is a business project and if you will make the game so hard it can only be bearable by 12h a day players like streamers - only them will play, and the game will die because BSG must have some sort of income in the long run.

However, I agree that the secure container is in the odd place right now. It is the most unrealistic part of the game, besides that you can go into another raid 2-3 minutes after you have been shot in the head. To be honest, I don't like the idea of it at all, however with the current game design it is almost impossible to not have it. The keys are the main and the only reason it must exist.

But... Let's consider you can't put anything into the container... how would it affect gameplay? Well, after they have changed the way found in raid status works it does not matter if you have the container or not, because if you die the quest items you have managed to put there lose its magic status, and the container is only a money maker in the end.

So, if we would be able to compensate people for not being able to earn some money after they die, they will not need the container for anything else than keys, right?

Edited by SubaruFan

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Majlo
1 minute ago, SubaruFan said:

but it should not be virtually unplayable for a large playerbase.

If restricting the Secure Containers makes the game unplayable for some, then I really have nothing to say except unironically to "get good". The game is far from "virtually unplayable" even playing entirely without a secure container.

4 minutes ago, SubaruFan said:

however with the current game design it is almost impossible to not have it

Could you explain your reasoning as to why it would be "almost impossible"?

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