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DissAbledGamer

Please update your armor levels and their ability to defend against bullets...

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DissAbledGamer

From my limited knowledge, Cati armor level 4 ceramic plate for body armor can defend against a 556 M995.... yet when looking at ballistic videos for Tarkov it has a 100% penetration/passthrough. This is a major problem with this game as the ammo and armor levels DO NOT coincide accurately with what is factual.

Please make it so armors are useful throughout the entirety of a wipe, instead of making them truly only viable during early wipe when high pen ammos are not as readily available. 

Right now there is ZERO point to using body armor against other PMC's because 99.9% of the time they will be using rounds that rendor all armor in tarkov useless with the exception of MAYBE 2~3 armors, being the level 6 armors. Even with the level 6 armors most top tier ammos pass through them with no problem.... this is a major flaw in the game mechanics/features.

Edited by DissAbledGamer
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Keptas

Armor in tarkov is already more powerful than in reality. If it would made realistically then practically all helmets would be useless in the game.

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Majlo

I'd love to see realistic armor protection values, but I'd also want to have accurate and realistic protection zones, so that if you shoot the bare arm, it won't get blocked by armor at the shoulder etc.

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chrisragnar

mirroring reality will just translate to awful game balance.

I mean there obviously needs to be a full spectrum from low pen ammo to high pen. And expensive almost fully protective armor down to cheaper limited protection. And right now I think the issue is more finding a reliable use for low penetration ammo. 

For me they have found perfect balance when players bring lower grade armor to counter high pen ammo, and are rewarded. And that trigger people to slowly swap into high flesh DMG ammo to counter the shift in armor. And then this repeats the other way where people start bringing higher lvl armor to counter flesh DMG ammo. And if you are not into the current meta you bring middle of the road armor and ammo. Everything is usefull and the meta always shifting.

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DissAbledGamer
1 hour ago, Keptas said:

Armor in tarkov is already more powerful than in reality. If it would made realistically then practically all helmets would be useless in the game.

.........

Can anyone tell him what I said in English? Seems my english is too broken to be understood. 

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Keptas
13 minutes ago, DissAbledGamer said:

.........

Can anyone tell him what I said in English? Seems my english is too broken to be understood. 

In reality armor vests protect from bullet or two when in tarkov everyone does mag dumps. So in reality if you received mag dump even if your vest didn't broke which is unlikely the you would get severe blunt damage and would die from internal bleeding. As for helmets they only protect from shrapnel yet in tarkov face shields can take several hits. 

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kthomasr
11 minutes ago, DissAbledGamer said:

.........

Can anyone tell him what I said in English? Seems my english is too broken to be understood. 

Your English was fine. His response is accurate. Just because it doesn't agree with YOUR viewpoint doesn't mean "Language barrier."

Armor in tarkov is already powerful. Just not against the high tier ammos, which is most peoples gripe.

Even m855 from 50 to 100 yards would reliably pen high tier armor in real life. Witnessed it when 2 of my soldiers in Iraq decided to test their ceramic plates by shooting each other in the chest. To this day I still don't understand how they thought it was a good idea.

What I don't understand is how these armors are also rated against fragments from grenades, yet the grenades aren't phased when passing through armor. It should provide some protection, and if you do take a grenade fragment, it should deal considerable armor damage.

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Aussieeeee

This rework is coming in patch 13

 

Stay tuned and check podcasts coming from BSG on more info

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1Widerstandny

I want to kill someone with 5.45 PRS to the thorax, even if he has class 5 armor, but only after the armor overhaul in patch 0.13

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stant0s

Rework of what, armor? Maybe fix the games netcode/servers rather than adding more complexity to something that isn't functioning as intended already. Keep it simple, and working before trying to be clever. 

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GeneralBrus
2 hours ago, chrisragnar said:

mirroring reality will just translate to awful game balance.

no

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DissAbledGamer
3 hours ago, kthomasr said:

Your English was fine. His response is accurate. Just because it doesn't agree with YOUR viewpoint doesn't mean "Language barrier."

Armor in tarkov is already powerful. Just not against the high tier ammos, which is most peoples gripe.

Even m855 from 50 to 100 yards would reliably pen high tier armor in real life. Witnessed it when 2 of my soldiers in Iraq decided to test their ceramic plates by shooting each other in the chest. To this day I still don't understand how they thought it was a good idea.

What I don't understand is how these armors are also rated against fragments from grenades, yet the grenades aren't phased when passing through armor. It should provide some protection, and if you do take a grenade fragment, it should deal considerable armor damage.

Read what I said again. Carti L E V E L 4 armor blocks 556 M995. CARTI is a bullet proof material manufacturer, and the level 4 ceramic plate I mentioned is a thorax plate. 

It seems you also cannot understand properly and is blinded by your own desire to spew ignorant bias. 

You have Z E R O clue about body armor and armor levels.

Class 6 Armor or Class 6A can withstand A T L E A S T three hits from an armor piercing 7.62 x 54r from 15 feet or 5 meters.... so tarkov is a far cry from reality with all top tier carbine / sniper / assault ammos passing through at 100%. 

At the very least do some research before you pull crap out of your ass. 

Nikita said with his own mouth that he wants Tarkov to be the armament encylopedia of a game.

Grenade shrapnels should not do "considerable" armor damage as the reason a person dies from a grenade explosion is actually the shock wave, coupled with secondary hits from shrapnels. Please stop saying ignorant crap.

Just so you are not confused any further, Level / Class is terms variantly adopted by whatever country decides to doctor specs. LEVEL is primarily used in USA, and CLASS is used in Russia. In the end Level 4 / Class 6 is basically the highest degree of specification for the respected countries. 

Edited by DissAbledGamer
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ACuddlyBadger

NIJ IV armor cannot stop M995 from a 20" barrel at point blank. It cannot.  M995 is tungsten core, so is M993, no armor class besides DoD XSAPI plates are rated to stop it, and the XSAPI stuff isn't even issued because there are no threats that require it. NIJ IV armor wouldn't even be able to stop an AP-20, which is rated to defeat NIJ IV yet in game it can only slap through the in game equivalent of NIJ III. 

You are barking up the wrong tree, if you want to point out discrepancies look at the MP7's 4.6x30 which is vastly overpowered. HK's technical data sheet even says AP SX is aluminum core, and that it can only pen a nato CRISAT target which is pistol caliber armor, yet it sails through a Gen4 sapi plate rated to stop rifle rounds. 

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ACuddlyBadger
8 hours ago, DissAbledGamer said:

Right now there is ZERO point to using body armor against other PMC's because 99.9% of the time they will be using rounds that rendor all armor in tarkov useless with the exception of MAYBE 2~3 armors, being the level 6 armors. Even with the level 6 armors most top tier ammos pass through them with no problem.... this is a major flaw in the game mechanics/features.

Why is AP ammo so widely available? Why are there so many automatic weapons available? I get it, its a gun game, but automatic rifles should be way harder to get, a country like Russia with its strict gun control laws has contingencies to make sure that automatic rifles and AP ammo is either very scarce, or maybe there is an amnesty program where you can turn in AP ammo and automatic weapons to the Russian forces for favors, food, or commodities. 

Why is armor such a massive investment to lose? For the price of one 40k armored level 4 rig barter, I can craft 5 salewas and heal myself countless times. Armor needs to be cheaper than dying, even if it only saves you half or 1/4 the time. Id rather spend 450 bucks on armor that works half the time than deal with a sucking chest wound to my lungs. 

)

Your tone is very belligerent, you can say a universal truth like the sky is blue, but if you are yelling and being an ass about it, people will still react negatively to you. You won't convince anybody or create any constructive discussion with this attitude. @DissAbledGamer

Edited by ACuddlyBadger
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GeneralBrus

bullets are not strong enough, full auto is op, armor is way too expensive, AP ammo is way too expensive, helmets are almost useless and still even more expensive than body armor.

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Overkill_Reaper

Armor strength isn’t the problem, the problem is the over abundance and ease of access of armor piercing ammunition. 

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kthomasr
4 hours ago, DissAbledGamer said:

Read what I said again. Carti L E V E L 4 armor blocks 556 M995. CARTI is a bullet proof material manufacturer, and the level 4 ceramic plate I mentioned is a thorax plate. 

It seems you also cannot understand properly and is blinded by your own desire to spew ignorant bias. 

You have Z E R O clue about body armor and armor levels.

Class 6 Armor or Class 6A can withstand A T L E A S T three hits from an armor piercing 7.62 x 54r from 15 feet or 5 meters.... so tarkov is a far cry from reality with all top tier carbine / sniper / assault ammos passing through at 100%. 

At the very least do some research before you pull crap out of your ass. 

Nikita said with his own mouth that he wants Tarkov to be the armament encylopedia of a game.

Grenade shrapnels should not do "considerable" armor damage as the reason a person dies from a grenade explosion is actually the shock wave, coupled with secondary hits from shrapnels. Please stop saying ignorant crap.

Just so you are not confused any further, Level / Class is terms variantly adopted by whatever country decides to doctor specs. LEVEL is primarily used in USA, and CLASS is used in Russia. In the end Level 4 / Class 6 is basically the highest degree of specification for the respected countries. 

I read it once. Understood it for what it was. Drivel.

Your argument that m996 shouldn't pen class 4, when m855 easily pens it in real life is absurd.

And this "ignorant bias" you speak of, is based on experience and real life data. 

So bypassing the rest of your attack, I don't recall mentioning the shockwave of a grenade. I was talking about the fragments. But hey, lets not use the fact that a fragment from a grenade would be stopped by most armors dissuade you from being offensive.

Edited by kthomasr

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DissAbledGamer
2 minutes ago, kthomasr said:

I read it once. Understood it for what it was. Drivel.

Your argument that m996 shouldn't pen class 4, when m855 easily pens it in real life is absurd.

And this "ignorant bias" you speak of, is based on experience and real life data. 

So bypassing the rest of your attack, I don't recall mentioning the shockwave of a grenade. I was talking about the fragments. But hey, lets not use the fact that a fragment from a grenade wouldn't be stopped by most armors dissuade you from being offensive.

You are beyond help. M855 is not an armor piercing round and DOES NOT pen level 4 armor IN REAL LIFE as for the M995 AP3/4 IS an armor piercing round and DOES NOT pen level 4 armor, that is what your dyslexia is preventing you from understasnding. Your real life seems to be you effectively day dreaming. At this point any further responses will be considered trolling because every thing you have said is not backed by any limited ballistics data that is out there.

The only reason I know CATI level 4 Ceramic plate for thorax can stop an M995 Ap3/4 round is because there is quite literally a youtube video showing this military ammo that was provided to a civilian in the states for a rare opportunity to test the plate to show the level of stopping power in the body armor. You have no real life experience, stop making crap up. 

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kthomasr
Just now, DissAbledGamer said:

You are beyond help. M855 is not an armor piercing round and DOES NOT pen level 4 armor IN REAL LIFE as for the M995 AP3/4 IS an armor piercing round and DOES NOT pen level 4 armor, that is what your dyslexia is preventing you from understasnding. Your real life seems to be you effectively day dreaming. At this point any further responses will be considered trolling because every thing you have said is not backed by any limited ballistics data that is out there.

The only reason I know CATI level 4 Ceramic plate for thorax can stop an M995 Ap3/4 round is because there is quite literally a youtube video showing this military ammo that was provided to a civilian in the states for a rare opportunity to test the plate to show the level of stopping power in the body armor. You have no real life experience, stop making crap up. 

Dude.  2 of my ducking soldiers shot each other through the vest. It does pen.

To make it even better, the shots weren't straight on to each other, but at an angle, so the armor should have been more effective.

But hey. I don't know what the duck im talking about because you looked something up on the internet and are now an expert.

And as far as "no real life experience," I have 21 years with the U.S Army. 

What's yours?

Google and youtube?

Edited by kthomasr
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DissAbledGamer
1 minute ago, kthomasr said:

Dude.  2 of my ducking soldiers shot each other through the vest. It does pen.

To make it even better, the shots weren't straight on to each other, but at an angle, so the armor should have been more effective.

But hey. I don't know what the duck im talking about because you looked something up on the internet and are now an expert.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Ah! There it is, the old I know from personal experience, but your search on the internet made you an expert response. 

I'm sure ballistics data released by the military which is VERY limited yet definite is less trust worthy than 2 make believe subordinate jackasses shooting M855's at make believe vests is more accurate. 

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kthomasr
Just now, DissAbledGamer said:

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Ah! There it is, the old I know from personal experience, but your search on the internet made you an expert response. 

I'm sure ballistics data released by the military which is VERY limited yet definite is less trust worthy than 2 make believe subordinate jackasses shooting M855's at make believe vests is more accurate. 

Believe what you want. I was the first person on the scene after they shot each other and helped medivac them to the hospital we had on base.

I know what I saw, what their statements were and the results of their actions.

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DissAbledGamer
4 hours ago, ACuddlyBadger said:

NIJ IV armor cannot stop M995 from a 20" barrel at point blank. It cannot.  M995 is tungsten core, so is M993, no armor class besides DoD XSAPI plates are rated to stop it, and the XSAPI stuff isn't even issued because there are no threats that require it. NIJ IV armor wouldn't even be able to stop an AP-20, which is rated to defeat NIJ IV yet in game it can only slap through the in game equivalent of NIJ III. 

You are barking up the wrong tree, if you want to point out discrepancies look at the MP7's 4.6x30 which is vastly overpowered. HK's technical data sheet even says AP SX is aluminum core, and that it can only pen a nato CRISAT target which is pistol caliber armor, yet it sails through a Gen4 sapi plate rated to stop rifle rounds. 

You do realize the video you linked starting at 2:50 shows M995 being stopped by BOTH CATI and RMA plates.....  

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DissAbledGamer
2 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

Armor strength isn’t the problem, the problem is the over abundance and ease of access of armor piercing ammunition. 

Couldn't agree with you more about the ease of access and abundance, I have 7 ammo containers full of M995s and 5 1/2 full of 855a 4 full of M61 6 full of M62.... it goes on and on and on.... 

M995.thumb.png.3bb71d9f2614912af230af13f0b0d1db.png

Edited by DissAbledGamer
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DukeLander

Why are you so rude?

So if I tell you I saw standard ak ammo pen through ceramic plates with no trouble but every spec said it is impossible , i am a liar ?

There are no universal armor rules for ammo behavior, it only should stop certain ammo types, but not necessarily.

But for me more important is bullet energy, where as pmc you can take bunch of hits and keep dancing around.

There is no man who can stand still after direct shot in any armor type.

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1Widerstandny

https://escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/Armor_vests

 

Is your Armor in this sheet or is this a not implemented armor plate in-Game?

If it was the 2nd, than wait for patch 0.13, where we get our costumisible rig and armoed rigs, there we can swap armor plates from class 3 to class 6 in-Raid

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