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TEX7575

Battleye is useless. Why not add peer-review?

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TEX7575

It's obvious that the devs have been notified of all the open cheating and abuse that takes place on EFT. It's hard enough for someone to get a start in this, made only exponentially worse by the fact that they have chosen one of the worst anti-cheat systems available. All games are susceptible to cheaters, yeah sure great, but DO something about them. Don't continue to let a broken system let those bums continue to slip through the cracks. Battleye always has been, and will always continue to be, hands down the worst program to handle cheaters. It doesn't have thorough anti-bypass checks, and what it is able to catch is so quickly modded by these cheat devs that they might as well not even try.

 

Here's a bright idea; 3rd party peer review! When a player has submitted a cheating report against another player, have a system in place that logs the gameplay/footage, so it may be sent to a handful of respectable players, have them review it, and base their judgement upon their given perspectives. Do our loving Devs even care about their player base? If they really did, they would surely institute this sort of system. It has worked fantastically well on other games. Yes, that means we will continue to get (Head, Eyes)'d, but something EFFECTIVE AND USEFUL will be done about it.

I'm tired of throwing away my hard-earned loot (And not to mention my valuable Real-Life time) on every expedition out, because some Momma's Boy basement slug used his allowance to buy $20 worth of hacks because he can't play a game for more than 10 minutes without having to go change his diaper.
>Pic related

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chrisragnar

Yeah no. I'd rather not have some butthurt dude decide if I'm cheating or not. I'm curious what game use this method? Never heard of it..

Also how would you compensate the people reviewing? Who decides if they are competent? How much time should they spend watching reports? How many reports before there is a manual review? Where would you store all the footage? Distribution? Software?

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Luv2ruck

Battle-eye doesn't work. And peer-review is probably worse for this game than Battle-eye. So many times in this game, you will die and not know how you were seen. So, your replay is worthless, especially if someone is using wall hacks.

There are better systems out there. Hell, epic games is doing a good job keeping cheaters out of their game. Perhaps implementing their anti-cheat or something. 

But, the real problem is. Cheaters in tarkov are addicted to cheating. Battle-eye bans them and makes them want to pay for another account. It lets them make money.

But, care about the player base? Nah, nothing I have seen from BSG says anything about caring about their playerbase. Their policy has always seemed like, we already have your money. Just quit playing if you feel that way.

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LenzOA

imo the problem should be addressed better by bsg. just saying "we do everything we can and look at the numbers. and btw there are cheaters in every game" is just weak imo.

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opiat3

I´ve seen a lot of ppl trash talking Battle eye, curiously none of them were able to point out whats the anti cheat that is better or they would like to replace battle eye.

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oldirty

Cheating and anti cheat is a very difficult topic. There is simply not enough data and knowledge available to the public to form an accurate picture. But we the players need to understand that we sit in the same boat as BSG, I have no doubt that they hate cheaters just as much as we do.

I think adding BE was a good step and a sign that BSG takes the issue of cheating seriously, but from what I understand adding an anti cheat is only one step, it also depends on its implementation and alot of work has to be done within the game, like digitally signing components of the game etc, but this is already in the realm of knowledge we players have very little understanding.

I think BSG never dreamed of having such a huge player base, we probably have more cheaters than they thought they would have players in total.

In any game the issue of cheating goes up and down and up and down. We need to think in longer time frames, its not going to change over night.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb chrisragnar:

Yeah no. I'd rather not have some butthurt dude decide if I'm cheating or not. I'm curious what game use this method? Never heard of it..

Counter strike does and it works pretty well and is surprisingly secure, but I dont know what it takes to build such a system and if BSG is able to build such an infrastructure. Valve can only do this because they have a poo ton of spare money and probably more important lots of spare time.

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chrisragnar
1 hour ago, LenzOA said:

imo the problem should be addressed better by bsg. just saying "we do everything we can and look at the numbers. and btw there are cheaters in every game" is just weak imo.

Well the actual amount of cheaters Vs just hackusations because you can't tell what happen,  seems to be a little in the air arm. So I dont understand how everyone can be so sure battle eye is not working etc.

Personally coming from rainbow 6 where good players pretty much looks like hackers even with playback (but they are not), and getting hackused myself now and then when I had good games. I can't say I "feel" like there is a prominent hacking problem in tarkov. There is major mentality problems tho, like people have been locked in their basement too long.

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tobiassolem

BattlEye has banned roughly 100,000 cheaters since the beginning of this year.

Several cheats are no longer sold, because their developers cannot get around BattlEye.

So-called "undetected radar hacks" that use a secondary machine are no longer viable.

BattlEye depends however on reliable data, they need your reports to detect new ways to cheat.
File reports with video evidence, and report those who cheat in-game. If they cheated, they will be banned.

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LenzOA
36 minutes ago, chrisragnar said:

 

Personally coming from rainbow 6 where good players pretty much looks like hackers even with playback (but they are not), and getting hackused myself now and then when I had good games. I can't say I "feel" like there is a prominent hacking problem in tarkov.

- play on asia server

- get head/eyes by a lvl 8 guy with full endgame gear

- check his stats on the homepage (back when it still was there) 75 k/d ratio

- check his stats on the homepage 3 weeks later, now 94 k/d ratio and he is lvl 47

- read threads in the forum that people are not hacking

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oldirty
vor 16 Minuten schrieb tobiassolem:

BattlEye has banned roughly 100,000 cheaters since the beginning of this year.

I have a difficult question, I think it would really beneficial for the discomfort in the community to educate people more. I am well aware that this is a slippery slope but I have no doubt that if people could base their opinion on facts it would benefit all of us.

This number of 100,000 tells me personally very little without knowing the total amount of players we had in the same time frame.

Every company struggles heavily with earning the trust of their players regarding anti cheat and the relationship between players and developers is 100% based on trust, "trust us we work hard and ban the cheaters".

I strongly believe no matter wich game or developer, the community and the developer sit in the same boat and for that reason I think it would be nice if we could create a strong bond between the two.

Would it be an issue to release enough data so we, the community, can form a somewhat accurate picture of the situation?

Would it be possible to somehow make us feel that we have power, curretnly in any game a report feels like throwing a complaint out into the void. The feeling of being powerless is probably one of he most devastating aspects of cheating and it doesnt matter if the feeling is correct or not, it kills the player.

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tobiassolem
1 hour ago, LenzOA said:

- play on asia server

- get head/eyes by a lvl 8 guy with full endgame gear

- check his stats on the homepage (back when it still was there) 75 k/d ratio

- check his stats on the homepage 3 weeks later, now 94 k/d ratio and he is lvl 47

- read threads in the forum that people are not hacking

Those stats have not been updated since June 2019, BattlEye was not added until August 2019.

Probably is worth to update your argument, since it is well over a year old.

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BanditMaka

Obviously wasn't here before we had battleye

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tobiassolem
58 minutes ago, oldirty said:

I have a difficult question, I think it would really beneficial for the discomfort in the community to educate people more. I am well aware that this is a slippery slope but I have no doubt that if people could base their opinion on facts it would benefit all of us.

This number of 100,000 tells me personally very little without knowing the total amount of players we had in the same time frame.

Every company struggles heavily with earning the trust of their players regarding anti cheat and the relationship between players and developers is 100% based on trust, "trust us we work hard and ban the cheaters".

I strongly believe no matter wich game or developer, the community and the developer sit in the same boat and for that reason I think it would be nice if we could create a strong bond between the two.

Would it be an issue to release enough data so we, the community, can form a somewhat accurate picture of the situation?

Would it be possible to somehow make us feel that we have power, curretnly in any game a report feels like throwing a complaint out into the void. The feeling of being powerless is probably one of he most devastating aspects of cheating and it doesnt matter if the feeling is correct or not, it kills the player.

Hmm, I agree with you that presenting statistics would be interesting, as it would help to understand what these "100 000 banned accounts" mean relative to the player base. At some point there were 250 000 concurrent players during one weekend, this means that the playerbase in total well exceeds 250 000 players. By how much I do not know, how many of the 100 000 banned accounts were accounts that was played by the same people, I don't know either. And I think it would be hard to accurately calculate. It stands to reason that there are returning cheating players however.

What we do know is that the average player never uses more than one account, and from the same computer, whereas cheaters tend to spoof hardware ID (using a subfunction of a cheat) and geographical location (ie. using VPN), this makes it a bit harder to know whether each instance of cheating is unique, or if its the same group of players re-buying accounts as they get banned. This is likely.

This makes it a bit rough to make a correct comparison, as the total playerbase may be (for example, just throwing a number out here) 2 million unique accounts in total, if 100 000 of those get banned, it might still be (for example) 3000 actual cheating players who over the duration of 1 year used credit card frauds to buy new accounts (that would be banned).

 

As for your concern whether the reports are "sent into the void", Nikita gave his personal assurance that each (proper) report DOES indeed reach BattlEye and helps them detect new cheats. The more active people are in reporting cheaters, the more data they have to go by to detect new methods.

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LenzOA
15 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Those stats have not been updated since June 2019, BattlEye was not added until August 2019.

Probably is worth to update your argument, since it is well over a year old.

- play on asia server

- get head/eyes by a obv wallhacker who trys to shoot me threw a wall for 30 sek until i move and get in los

- check his lvl via friendslist and see he is lvl 9

- check his lvl 2,5 weeks later and see he is lvl 49 and still gaining lvl, so i guess he is not banned.

- read threads in the forum that people are not hacking

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SCvTyson

I think having battle eye banning for cheating is on side of the story, but the other side is stopping the players that do not cheat buying rubles for real cash. I would find it hard to believe that more than 20% of the cheaters are cheating for fun.

RMT is a real issue in Tarkov ( just like in any other game where having lots of virtual currency makes u gear and feel better). As long as players who buy rubbles, but don't cheat, exist - there will be cheaters. 

So yea...stop buying rubbles lol and you will see an improvement.

There is no anticheat in the world, nor there ever be one, that can stop such profitable business as RMT. Its up to the players...or... bsg could just open online "rubble" store...but then again, rmt will make sure that their prices are lower...

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