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Preliminary patch notes for 0.12.8 patch!

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ihateunoob3

Honestly loosing trust in this company at this point. not even giving an update is usually the last straw for most.

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SonicK

talk to us  bsg

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LenzOA
9 minutes ago, SonicK said:

talk to us  bsg

"APPROXIMATELY on Wednesday" can also be later :)

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SonicK
vor 3 Minuten schrieb LenzOA:

"APPROXIMATELY on Wednesday" can also be later :)

i  want it  now :)

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crush-rs
vor einer Stunde schrieb ihateunoob3:

Honestly loosing trust in this company at this point. not even giving an update is usually the last straw for most.

Dude... if you are so desperate you should leave computer games and should overthink your life.

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Reaver_
2 minutes ago, crush-rs said:

Dude... if you are so desperate you should leave computer games and should overthink your life.

useless point, this forum's about escape from tarkov, it's only natural that he's reacting to the game's problems. If you don't want to hear complaints about a game, you should browse some facebook or smth.

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Geenensan
Am 9.10.2020 um 12:13 schrieb ShiroTenshi:

(possibly earlier!)

For BSG ist means definately later :)

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tobiassolem

Gentlemen, please be patient and understand that "approximately" is an estimation. If the devs ran into issues, this date might be pushed back. It's meant as an approximate release time. It will be released when the devs believes it meets their demands. Thank you kindly for your patience.

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crush-rs
Gerade eben schrieb Reaver_:

useless point, this forum's about escape from tarkov, it's only natural that he's reacting to the game's problems. If you don't want to hear complaints about a game, you should browse some facebook or smth.

Sorry, i did not want to suggest, that i complain about his complaint. I just wanted to point out, that if you find yourself whining about such minor problems in a gamedevelopment and you need to tell everyone that you are going to lose trust, as if anybody would care, you probably are well advised to reconsider some priorities you hold in your life.

Who does not agree is more than welcome to complain his ass off in this forum. but it won't help.

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Reaver_
2 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Gentlemen, please be patient and understand that "approximately" is an estimation. If the devs ran into issues, this date might be pushed back. It's meant as an approximate release time. It will be released when the devs believes it meets their demands. Thank you kindly for your patience.

you are right, the problem here is that they shouldn't make promises at all. Games and softwares industries work this way, there's no point in announcing updates like a triple A game would. They just should stay shut and publish the patch whenever they want.

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tobiassolem
Just now, Reaver_ said:

they shouldn't make promises at all.

No promises were made. Estimations only.

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Reaver_
3 minutes ago, crush-rs said:

Sorry, i did not want to suggest, that i complain about his complaint. I just wanted to point out, that if you find yourself whining about such minor problems in a gamedevelopment and you need to tell everyone that you are going to lose trust, as if anybody would care, you probably are well advised to reconsider some priorities you hold in your life.

Who does not agree is more than welcome to complain his ass off in this forum. but it won't help.

yeah it's called feedback and it's more important than you think. Whining is probably not the best way of doing it but who cares how you do it, fact is that the company needs feedback so that it can grow. You are also mistakenly thinking that he cares THIS much about the game. I mean you may be right but you don't know and you really shouldn't care as nobody cares of such opinions on a videogame forum. As I said it's only natural to react to some situations, also it didn't seem desperate at all to me, he's just complaining which is ok. You've probably done it IRL a lot of times for the stupidest things

4 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

No promises were made. Estimations only.

you know what I meant. These guys aren't some leakers or something, they are the game developers themselves. Just don't say anything so that no one will be unsatisfied. Valve's been doing it for years and they doing right.

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crush-rs
vor 1 Minute schrieb Reaver_:

yeah it's called feedback and it's more important than you think. Whining is probably not the best way of doing it but who cares how you do it, fact is that the company needs feedback so that it can grow. You are also mistakenly thinking that he cares THIS much about the game. I mean you may be right but you don't know and you really shouldn't care as nobody cares of such opinions on a videogame forum. As I said it's only natural to react to some situations, also it didn't seem desperate at all to me, he's just complaining which is ok. You've probably done it IRL a lot of times for the stupidest things

Pls let us differentiate between constructive feedback and delivering frustration, not to say not constructive feedback.

Feedback could have been "I'm pissed because i awaited this patch long time and took a day off, because of the announced time. That is very unfortunate and frustrating for me and i would propose that, if you cant deliver as you announced you at least let something hear about and give an explanation why the delay accours. This would decrease the ammount of frustration perhaps significally"

"now i loose trust because you don't say anything" is more childish, and just expresses the frustration. as a developer i would ignore it, because it is no constructive critique.

but i am just a dude in the internet trying to do something good.

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RCR_PT
3 minutes ago, Reaver_ said:

yeah it's called feedback and it's more important than you think. Whining is probably not the best way of doing it but who cares how you do it, fact is that the company needs feedback so that it can grow. You are also mistakenly thinking that he cares THIS much about the game. I mean you may be right but you don't know and you really shouldn't care as nobody cares of such opinions on a videogame forum. As I said it's only natural to react to some situations, also it didn't seem desperate at all to me, he's just complaining which is ok. You've probably done it IRL a lot of times for the stupidest things

you know what I meant. These guys aren't some leakers or something, they are the game developers themselves. Just don't say anything so that no one will be unsatisfied. Valve's been doing it for years and they doing right.

please stop with negativity, I also don't like a patch being delayed, but I prefer that way than receiving bugs, and losing gear in game due to a bug about a new patch. (as it happened to me a few months ago). be patient

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Niewiarygodny
13 minutes ago, Reaver_ said:

Just don't say anything so that no one will be unsatisfied

And ppl would still moan.
"WTF NO INFORMATION ABOUT PATCH? ARE THEY STILL DEVELOPING EFT?"
You will never satisfy everyone, seems like some ppl can't live without EFT and if/when BSG delay patch cause of "some reasons" they cry on forum about it.

Just stop, get a life, it's just a game. Thank you.

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Reaver_
5 minutes ago, crush-rs said:

Pls let us differentiate between constructive feedback and delivering frustration, not to say not constructive feedback.

Feedback could have been "I'm pissed because i awaited this patch long time and took a day off, because of the announced time. That is very unfortunate and frustrating for me and i would propose that, if you cant deliver as you announced you at least let something hear about and give an explanation why the delay accours. This would decrease the ammount of frustration perhaps significally"

"now i loose trust because you don't say anything" is more childish, and just expresses the frustration. as a developer i would ignore it, because it is no constructive critique.

but i am just a dude in the internet trying to do something good.

fact is that most of the players doesn't act like that. Devs perfectly know it and HAVE to give attention to these comments, and they will, for sure. btw didn't look that childish, it was just too harsh.

7 minutes ago, RCR_PT said:

please stop with negativity, I also don't like a patch being delayed, but I prefer that way than receiving bugs, and losing gear in game due to a bug about a new patch. (as it happened to me a few months ago). be patient

I'm not being negative at all and I am patient. I just stated the fact that bsg should just post updates without trying to be friendly, announcing them before they actually are sure about what they've done, cuz it just put them in a bad position as a company and people like that guy react. I honestly don't care when the patch releases, of course I would like to play it as soon as possible but with the best performance they can put in it. I'm in no hurry pal

4 minutes ago, Niewiarygodny said:

And ppl would still moan.
"WTF NO INFORMATION ABOUT PATCH? ARE THEY STILL DEVELOPING EFT?"
You will never satisfy everyone, seems like some ppl can't live without EFT and if/when BSG delay patch cause of "some reasons" they cry on forum about it.

Just stop, get a life, it's just a game. Thank you.

being flamey for no reason at all, k

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B0redmatt
11 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

No promises were made. Estimations only.

Hey, I really, really love your game and I was looking forward to today. It's not that my life depends on it, but it's still frustrating to experience another delay and complete silence from your side. I understand that when you run into a problem, it needs to be solved and fixed so that it doesn't cause any major damage. I know how dynamic a due date can be, I am a software developer myself. 

However, it's a completely different story how disrespectful and unprofessional it is to announce a patch (if you already announce it, it should at least be in a state where it can be uploaded), to delay it and to be completely silent about it. It's not the first time that your announcements are simply wrong. I'm nowhere near questioning your workflows and processes, but from one developer dealing with dissatisfied customers to another: Announce your patches when they are ready and not in development. Even if this is a beta version, you need to at least show some customer focus.

But, as I said, the game is progressing in the right direction. Stay tuned and keep up the good work.

With best regards, 
a concerned fan

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Reaver_
2 minutes ago, B0redmatt said:

Hey, I really, really love your game and I was looking forward to today. It's not that my life depends on it, but it's still frustrating to experience another delay and complete silence from your side. I understand that when you run into a problem, it needs to be solved and fixed so that it doesn't cause any major damage. I know how dynamic a due date can be, I am a software developer myself. 

However, it's a completely different story how disrespectful and unprofessional it is to announce a patch (if you already announce it, it should at least be in a state where it can be uploaded), to delay it and to be completely silent about it. It's not the first time that your announcements are simply wrong. I'm nowhere near questioning your workflows and processes, but from one developer dealing with dissatisfied customers to another: Announce your patches when they are ready and not in development. Even if this is a beta version, you need to at least show some customer focus.

But, as I said, the game is progressing in the right direction. Stay tuned and keep up the good work.

With best regards, 
a concerned fan

hey don't be childish and get a life!
- some random guy

jk obv

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tobiassolem
22 minutes ago, Reaver_ said:

you know what I meant. These guys aren't some leakers or something, they are the game developers themselves. Just don't say anything so that no one will be unsatisfied. Valve's been doing it for years and they doing right.

Discussions and opinions are what the forums are for, so I appreciate your input and feedback. However, BSG has received criticism in the past from people who have different opinions about this subject. These people expect BSG to be more transparent about the process and about ETA's, and feel contrary to you, that being silent is a cause for irritation or concern.

At the moment, the devs are aware of the high expectations for a new patch, and that many players are waiting for 12.8. This is why the team choose to interact with you guys - to try and keep you informed. If the devs felt the patch was ready right now, they would release it. Delays are not made to cause players frustrations, on the contrary. The delays are made so there won't be a need for rollbacks due to broken things.

 

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crush-rs
vor 11 Minuten schrieb Reaver_:

fact is that most of the players doesn't act like that. Devs perfectly know it and HAVE to give attention to these comments, and they will, for sure. btw didn't look that childish, it was just too harsh.

That is an assumption that is false. If the devs would, they would have already done.

the crying guys will play it anayways and the quality of the game speaks for its self and will not result in significant player loss because of the frustration of delayed patches.

If you want to change a policy you need to have good arguments. and only these are the reason why you see steps forward in transperency policy by BSG, and not because of frustrated children expressing their feelings. nobody takes them serious.

From an other perspektive: If there weren't constructive critism and very engaged community member / embassedors and the big influencer who rationalize the problem and form it in a constructive argument and stay in communication with the developers then nobody would listen to the cryer! the problem is adressed by the right people because it is an actual problem and not because there is amount X of frustrated guys who express their feelings.

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Awake
13 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Discussions and opinions are what the forums are for, so I appreciate your input and feedback. However, BSG has received criticism in the past from people who have different opinions about this subject. These people expect BSG to be more transparent about the process and about ETA's, and feel contrary to you, that being silent is a cause for irritation or concern.

At the moment, the devs are aware of the high expectations for a new patch, and that many players are waiting for 12.8. This is why the team choose to interact with you guys - to try and keep you informed. If the devs felt the patch was ready right now, they would release it. Delays are not made to cause players frustrations, on the contrary. The delays are made so there won't be a need for rollbacks due to broken things.

 

I am fully on your side. The communication is important, but there is a simple way to solve both issues - the lack of communication on the one hand and the disappointment when delays occur on the other hand. The simple solution is: announce the patch ETA only when it is already ready. Simple. I understand that they want to put everything live as soon as possible, but it is not worth the frustration of us customers when the ETA is delayed every single time. People have waited years for this game and wait months for every little patch. They can also wait 1 week longer for a patch.

Assuming the patch will be ready tomorrow, why not just wait with announcing the patch until tomorrow with an ETA next week.

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ShiroTenshi

People are forgetting that in the latest announcement they specifically used and emphasized the work 'APPROXIMATELY'.

What does this mean? I means that it is close to the specified date, but not exactly. It is not an accurate statement. I means that they are aiming for today but it could not happen. It's an estimation, not a promise.

We understand it is frustrating to be expecting something and it doesn't happen, but it was never 100% going to happen today. If they haven't said anything to the contrary yet, then chances are they are still aiming for today but are waiting on some last minute thing to be done. If they knew they wouldn't be able to deliver today, they would announce it.

They still have a bit over 7 hours to drop the patch (or announce a delay) and it will still have been within the estimated time frame. We only ask people to be patient and understanding that nothing is EVER set in stone when it comes to development, and an estimate is NOT a promise.

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Reaver_
25 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Discussions and opinions are what the forums are for, so I appreciate your input and feedback. However, BSG has received criticism in the past from people who have different opinions about this subject. These people expect BSG to be more transparent about the process and about ETA's, and feel contrary to you, that being silent is a cause for irritation or concern.

At the moment, the devs are aware of the high expectations for a new patch, and that many players are waiting for 12.8. This is why the team choose to interact with you guys - to try and keep you informed. If the devs felt the patch was ready right now, they would release it. Delays are not made to cause players frustrations, on the contrary. The delays are made so there won't be a need for rollbacks due to broken things.

 

Communication is important indeed, but some things must be done in a different way. Update announcements and discussions are part of that way.
The fact that you have a forum where devs discuss with people publicly it's a great thing on its own and kind of unique in the industry and it should be more than enough to satisfy the need of customers to interact with you. Everything else? Backstage.
Everything I'm saying it's just some kind of opinion based on experience, don't take this as a way to ''correct'' you all. I'm just trying to give advices as one of your ''customers'' (I prefer calling myself player).

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tobiassolem
6 minutes ago, Awake said:

Assuming the patch will be ready tomorrow, why not just wait with announcing the patch until tomorrow with an ETA next week.

Since you have been here for quite some time, you might remember this. But this is actually how it used to be done in the past. This was however met with a lot of "BSG aren't communicating enough", "Please give us an ETA for next patch", and so on. On one hand people become annoyed when patches aren't presented with ETA:s and take too much time (and there's silence about them) on the other hand people become annoyed when patches ARE presented with ETA:s and they take too much time (but there's transparency about the delays). Some people generally don't want to wait at all. They want perfect patches yesterday.

Trying to meet everyone's expectations and wishes is an impossible feat. The strategy right now is to give estimations whenever possible. I personally prefer estimations rather than set dates. Games that have set days, and then are delayed still. Give more of a "downer" for me.

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Awake
24 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Since you have been here for quite some time, you might remember this. But this is actually how it used to be done in the past. This was however met with a lot of "BSG aren't communicating enough", "Please give us an ETA for next patch", and so on. On one hand people become annoyed when patches aren't presented with ETA:s and take too much time (and there's silence about them) on the other hand people become annoyed when patches ARE presented with ETA:s and they take too much time (but there's transparency about the delays). Some people generally don't want to wait at all. They want perfect patches yesterday.

Trying to meet everyone's expectations and wishes is an impossible feat. The strategy right now is to give estimations whenever possible. I personally prefer estimations rather than set dates. Games that have set days, and then are delayed still. Give more of a "downer" for me.

Yes, I've been around for a long time but not active all the time. But from what I remember I'm pretty sure it was not like that. You say it is not doable due to people saying stuff like "BSG aren't communicating enough" or "Please give us an ETA for next patch" and so on. But honestly this can not be the real reason. I did not write the last post or the following because I want to call out BSG. I just want to help BSG and open there eyes on a method of communication which is 10x better. Look at these two scenarios (with arbitrary dates!) and think about it.

1. Scenario (current one): BSG announces patch on 1. Oct to drop approximately on 8. Oct or maybe earlier. It is not delivered on 8. Oct and they call a delay. Patch gets delivered one week later on 15. Oct when it is finished.

-> BSG communicated an ETA. BSG is not able to deliver. Players are frustrated. BSG feels pressure trying to satisfy the players. I guess we can agree that this is not a nice patch release.

2. Scenario (how it should be done): BSG finishes patch on 15. Oct and announces a release for 22. Oct. It gets delivered on time since it was already ready on 15. Oct.

-> BSG communicated an ETA. BSG is able to deliver. Players are happy about a new patch without delays. BSG feels less pressure. I guess we can agree that this was a successfull patch release.

Can people now call BSG out for not communicating enough or not giving ETAs? No, because BSG did communicate and did give an ETA! Actually, the players dont even know that the patch is already ready when the ETA was given. So how could they complain in scenario 2 but not in scenario 1? So your argument makes no sense at all. The only downside of scenario 2 is that the patch drops 1 week later than in scenario 1. But who cares about 1 week when waiting for the games and its patches for months/years?

Again: I'm not trying to call BSG out for bad practice or anything. I just want to give a suggestion which can be implemented without any problem or additional work load, which helps players (less frustrated) and BSG (less pressured). I think you did not understand my suggestions in my previous post, so please ready it carefully.

Edited by Awake
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