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7.62x39 BP is too expensive from Prapor

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oOo__RahL__oOo

Hi,

First of all, thanks for making a unique and addictive game!

I just wanted to drop in and make the suggestion that 7.62x39 BP be dropped in price. It's performance sits around m855a1 and M62 yet costs nearly twice as much. I know it is possible to obtain the round for similar pricing via the grenade + 2 smoke -> green gun powder -> 120 rounds BP craft but that works out to be near 4 hours of crafting for maybe 1 raid worth of ammo. I love 762 AK's and would like to run them much more often but feel forced towards the more 'meta' m4/FAL etc just because it is so much easier to get access to decent quantities of ammo at good prices. 

A price in rubles from Parpor somewhere between m855a1 and m62 would be perfect and make 762 AK's more 'viable' in the practical day to day sense.

Thanks for listening. Cheers.

RahL

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coredumped7893
Posted (edited)

Actually I would increase prices of good ammo like ***A1 or M61 etc. I think that like 90% (in my case) of higher level players use ammo with over 40 pen or close to that, this makes the armor almost useless. 

* And also M855A1 is ~249 rub. and M61 is 1125 rub.  So it seems that BP is somewhere between 55A1 and M61  :D 

** I`m not saying that changing prices would be bad, I`m just not sure if it would help the game. I really don`t like that most players pay attention only to penetration power of their bullets.

 

*** I know I know, you said M62 my bad :D  But in that case I think this should be more expensive, like at least BP. It has 54 pen - 7 higher than BP. 

Edited by coredumped7893

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Biala_Mewa

image.thumb.png.963a60d232d519eba54edc5afb853477.png

Hmm but you know that 7.62x39 BP penetrates almost every armor? It should be expensive. I would suggest to increase prices of good ammuniotion and less common. Scavs should not spawn with M61 and M80. 

 

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oOo__RahL__oOo
Posted (edited)

Yeah I appreciate its a good round. But at the moment its expensive relative to its performance so it sits in a odd place. As @coredumped7893 said 855A1 is ~249 RUB. BP does 13 more flesh (26% increase) and 4 more pen. If you factor in RPM (600 for AKM, 800 for M4 a 33% increase) the DPS out of an M4 more than counteracts the damage difference so you end up doing less damage per second. Now you factor in price and even using 33% more ammo with the m4 the fact that the price is 300% more means altogether with an m4 your doing more damage for substantially less cps (cost per second) vs BP.

This is even more the case for m62 where you get 28 more damage and 7 more pen for a round that's ~450 RUB, half the price of BP. Add to that a FAL also fires faster (700 vs 600, ~15% increase). So again, substantially more DPS at significantly less  cps,

The only counter I can see is that an AKM can be cheaper to kit out relative to M4/HK/FAL but I think its pretty well known that Ammo is the biggest cost. So any 'savings' you make are probably quickly lost due to the 300-700 RUB extra your spending to do less DPS at significantly more cps. Perhaps that was the dev's intention - make BP a round with lower upfront but much higher ongoing cost?

So all in all BP stands out as being in a weird place relative to other effective ammo's. I love 762 AK's and to mix up the guns I use and so still run it but know that I'm deliberately not making the 'smart choice'. To make it more consistent with its peers decrease its cost to between 855A1 and M62 (or alternatively increase the cost of the example rounds if you feel that AP ammo is too cheap at the moment as above). Either way, bring the cost in line with the performance of rounds that have similar performance metrics :).

PS IIRC Crafted BP is somewhere around 200 RUB a round (via above process crafting green gun) so dev's in principal don't have a problem with cheaper access to BP but then above comments re: supply come up. Like I said, its in a weird place!

Edited by oOo__RahL__oOo
added PS

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oOo__RahL__oOo

 

3 hours ago, coredumped7893 said:

Actually I would increase prices of good ammo like ***A1 or M61 etc. I think that like 90% (in my case) of higher level players use ammo with over 40 pen or close to that, this makes the armor almost useless. 

* And also M855A1 is ~249 rub. and M61 is 1125 rub.  So it seems that BP is somewhere between 55A1 and M61  :D 

** I`m not saying that changing prices would be bad, I`m just not sure if it would help the game. I really don`t like that most players pay attention only to penetration power of their bullets.

 

*** I know I know, you said M62 my bad :D  But in that case I think this should be more expensive, like at least BP. It has 54 pen - 7 higher than BP. 

Personally I'm ambivalent as to the cost of AP ammo as a whole. Just like to see BP priced more consistent with the spectrum of ammo available. It'd be nice to see more options that weren't at least obviously less optimal than the 'meta'. Cheaper BP would make 762 AK's a fun mid-high tier option! Cheaper to build and run but also lower DPS.

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Biala_Mewa

@oOo__RahL__oOo wow, you've made great calculations! I appreciate it very much!

 

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GeneralBrus

Well if you really want to use 7.62 x 39 BP, i would recommend crafting it in the hideout. All you need is green gunpowder, which you can also craft. 

In the end you get BP rounds for about 200 roubles per shot.

However, I personally wouldn't use ammo with less than 50 pen, and akm's have a horribly slow fire rate even on single fire. 

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keyciraptor

it is the best of it is kind, why lower the price? o.0 i would make it higher, double the price

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GeneralBrus
1 hour ago, keyciraptor said:

it is the best of it is kind, why lower the price? o.0 i would make it higher, double the price

Double? What is going on with you guys, bp is not strong enough to win you a fight against someone having igolnik and lvl 5 armor unless you land a lucky headshot.

7.62 BP is a midwipe round and thats it.

While it is true that most ppl run lvl 4 armour, however there are enough altyn/slic armour boys running around  AND even early wipe ppl farm labs and run around with lvl5+ armour. Everything under 50 pen will get you killed, exception being SP - 6 because of high fire rate and armor dmg.

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oOo__RahL__oOo
5 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

Well if you really want to use 7.62 x 39 BP, i would recommend crafting it in the hideout. All you need is green gunpowder, which you can also craft. 

In the end you get BP rounds for about 200 roubles per shot.

However, I personally wouldn't use ammo with less than 50 pen, and akm's have a horribly slow fire rate even on single fire. 

Yes I mentioned the craft in earlier posts. The point is its a lot of time and effort to run the round in a cost effective manner particularly compared to its peers.  Moreover, in addition to the cost of crafting BP, there is the money lost farming Ignolnik or SP6 for Flea which would probably net you far more than even the 500 RUB savings buying it from Prapor.

So BP is in an odd place price to performance? Be curious as to why that was decided to be the case if indeed there is a reason for it at all.

Yeah I know there are more lethal/cost effective options but sometimes its nice just to mix it up and not always run the same 'meta' kits. I'd just prefer if the game didn't punish me cost wise in addition to swallowing the performance delta just for wanting to mix it up! A kitted AKM would be an interesting step between 'starter' BT/BP AK's and 'meta' HK's/M4/VAL's etc.

 

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Allfather

Bump. I would like to see 7.62x39 BP reduced in cost as well. A meta AKM costs a pretty penny, and can only get down to 56-58 vertical recoil.

Alternatively, you can purchase an M1A , modify it to ~35 vertical recoil, and fire M80 rounds -- which are objectively better than BP -- at 1/4 the price. Or, you can pay slightly more roubles per round to get M62/M61, which are leagues above 7.62x39 BP. There is no option for better ammo than BP for the AKM series. Ridiculous.

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oOo__RahL__oOo

RIP. In response to this post they increased the price of BP. making it even more stupidly expensive for its performance 😂😂

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Th3Duck
On 10/11/2020 at 2:34 AM, Allfather said:

Bump. I would like to see 7.62x39 BP reduced in cost as well. A meta AKM costs a pretty penny, and can only get down to 56-58 vertical recoil.

Alternatively, you can purchase an M1A , modify it to ~35 vertical recoil, and fire M80 rounds -- which are objectively better than BP -- at 1/4 the price. Or, you can pay slightly more roubles per round to get M62/M61, which are leagues above 7.62x39 BP. There is no option for better ammo than BP for the AKM series. Ridiculous.

I dont know M80 is a substantial worse bullet for penning level 5 armor than 7,62x39BP. 

If you I use the veritas app (dont know if it is correct but ok, to get a sense of penetrating chance of both). 

LVL5 armor:

M80 has 13% of penning

7,62x39BP has 55% of penning.

Overall M80 can devistate but if you are unlucky lvl5 armor can be a pain in the ass. 

I agree with the fact that a decent AKM can cost a few roubles. But overall 7,62x39BP makes up for a lot of it. If you side it with 5.45x39 wich in my opinion the only viable round is BT wich is mediocre at best at penning. BS and igolnik are just to expensive in my opinion, and even you use it and you are hitting arms and stomach  instead of the chest, you need at least 7 to 8 rounds to kill someone. The damage is too low with BS and igolnik.

7,62BP does a nice amount of damage and penetration and is good middleground for both, the only possible drawback is the fire rate of the gun I think.

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oOo__RahL__oOo

M80 is a cheaper. But the odd thing is that the next tier of NATO ammo is both cheaper and better? M62, 855A1 etc It would seem to make sense to have BP priced between m62 and m80, instead it's currently twice the price of a much better bullet and that's before factoring in fire rates. 

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