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The_Kovacs

Anti Camper tools

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The_Kovacs

So we have all been there, on our merry way to the exit after a hard raid. Only to be killed by a camper on a blind corner which you couldnt have a chance of seeing as your attention is drawn by his team mate shooting at you from another angle.

I am happy with any game mechanic as long as there is a good chance to counter it. But campers, I cant stand - they go against eveything that is Tarkov. You have a limited amount of time to get  a limiited amount of resources on a map. The game is supposed to be slow  but at the same time have to rush.

So I would like to propse a tool that would be easily avaliable in the Tarkov  world, one that is totally immersive and is used by many militarys, para militarys and mercinarys around the world...

The drone. Both ariel and land based. I could go and buy a decent one myself now, and have it within a day, which cannot be said for many tiems in the game! They would be a great counter against campers while at the same time have the downside of making the user very vunerable.

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You would need to get batterys for them, or even have to find the items to craft them (scrap metal, electric motor, camera, wires etc).

 

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chrisragnar

We already have granades and launcher. Would be better to make it harder to hard camp spots like dorms for 40min straight. Like with radiation.

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Biala_Mewa

Hello,

 

We should consider another way of using drones in Tarkov:

- people would use drones after spawning to check where the other players are;

- some could use them to check if/where the boss is spawned;

- it could be used to find other players during raid, not only to check every corner on extract - for example, you could lay down in bushes and see whole surrouding without any risk.

Drones could be easly exploited to check position of other players, raiders and bosses.

This idea reminds me of UAV form CoD or Rainbow 6 Siege drones. 

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p4nnus
On 10/20/2020 at 10:10 AM, The_Kovacs said:

So we have all been there, on our merry way to the exit after a hard raid. Only to be killed by a camper on a blind corner which you couldnt have a chance of seeing as your attention is drawn by his team mate shooting at you from another angle.

I am happy with any game mechanic as long as there is a good chance to counter it. But campers, I cant stand - they go against eveything that is Tarkov. You have a limited amount of time to get  a limiited amount of resources on a map. The game is supposed to be slow  but at the same time have to rush.

So I would like to propse a tool that would be easily avaliable in the Tarkov  world, one that is totally immersive and is used by many militarys, para militarys and mercinarys around the world...

The drone. Both ariel and land based. I could go and buy a decent one myself now, and have it within a day, which cannot be said for many tiems in the game! They would be a great counter against campers while at the same time have the downside of making the user very vunerable.

You would need to get batterys for them, or even have to find the items to craft them (scrap metal, electric motor, camera, wires etc).

If you die to campers, youre doing it wrong. Slice the pipe, raid with friends, approach your extract carefully and methodically. Learn the spots where ambushed might happen, clear them out with nades if you cant see the enemy and suspect its still there.w

Ambushing is a completely valid strategy in a game like EFT. No matter how many people cry rat, no matter how many people cry extract camper, or just camper. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with setting up an ambush. 

Ambushes are easily countered if youre not alone, and if you are, there are still ways of doing it. @Biala_Mewa already pointed out some huge flaws in your suggestion - I dont think you thought it through. It would create MUCH more problems than it would solve. 

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Nutcracker87

poo players camp, but poo players also think other players camp when its just a matter of them stopping after hearing you instead of revealing themselves. 

Im a part of both as are most people. Sure its frustrating but honestly so are most things about tarkov, its a game of stress. 

Edited by Nutcracker87

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Majlo
On 10/21/2020 at 10:36 AM, p4nnus said:

Ambushing is a completely valid strategy in a game like EFT. No matter how many people cry rat, no matter how many people cry extract camper, or just camper. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with setting up an ambush.

I'm out of reactions for today, but I can't +1 this enough.

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RainmakerM4

The good  old classic go back to cod and or csgo fits here.

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dkg
On 10/21/2020 at 10:36 AM, p4nnus said:

If you die to campers, youre doing it wrong. Slice the pipe, raid with friends, approach your extract carefully and methodically. Learn the spots where ambushed might happen, clear them out with nades if you cant see the enemy and suspect its still there.w

Ambushing is a completely valid strategy in a game like EFT. No matter how many people cry rat, no matter how many people cry extract camper, or just camper. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with setting up an ambush. 

Ambushes are easily countered if youre not alone, and if you are, there are still ways of doing it. @Biala_Mewa already pointed out some huge flaws in your suggestion - I dont think you thought it through. It would create MUCH more problems than it would solve. 

couldn't agree more and I'd add one more thing, like in real life, if you fight fair you're doing it wrong - no real soldier and no real army would engage in a battle if chance to win is 50/50. You have to have advantage.

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Majlo
22 minutes ago, dkg said:

You have to have advantage.

Or at least think you have the advantage. ;) 

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modern1138

I don't want drones in Tarkov, but there is no arguing they are an advantage in combat.  So is satellite imagery, UAVs, close air support and artillery.  Drones, and some of those technologies I mentioned, would add an element I just don't think fits in the game. Could be I die so often from just making bad choices or slow reflexes I probably am less worried about campers than someone who is good.

The feel of Tarkov, to me, is kind of a low-fi step backwards in technology.  We don't even have running vehicles and I'd like to keep it that way.  Drones feel like a step in the wrong direction.

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dnewm08

i mean.. drones are real. what happened to ultra realism?? people are already cheating at the game in huge waves. why not equal the playing field. for some of you its a bad idea, but what about the majority? just because there is more of you posting on the forum doesn't mean your point is more valid than the rest, try seeing around that big nose of yours. please.

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modern1138

An AC-130U Gunship is also real, but the inclusion of the "Spooky" close air support, air interdiction and force protection platform seems like a departure from Tarkov.  Admittedly, a drone with a camera is a  fair bit away from one of the most heavily armed  and sophisticated armed reconnaissance aircraft every conceived by man, but it is on the same path.  First drone, then UAV, then the next thing you know we have the Lockheed GAU-12 Equalizer circling overhead.

Admittedly, I love all this stuff and I think that sure, maybe it would be cool and I'm just not seeing it. However,  to me, Tarkov should be about soldiers and gunfights.  Drones take away from that, in my mind.  I mean, we don't even have real comms.  

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p4nnus
13 hours ago, dnewm08 said:

i mean.. drones are real. what happened to ultra realism?? people are already cheating at the game in huge waves. why not equal the playing field. for some of you its a bad idea, but what about the majority? just because there is more of you posting on the forum doesn't mean your point is more valid than the rest, try seeing around that big nose of yours. please.

8 hours ago, modern1138 said:

An AC-130U Gunship is also real, but the inclusion of the "Spooky" close air support, air interdiction and force protection platform seems like a departure from Tarkov.  Admittedly, a drone with a camera is a  fair bit away from one of the most heavily armed  and sophisticated armed reconnaissance aircraft every conceived by man, but it is on the same path.  First drone, then UAV, then the next thing you know we have the Lockheed GAU-12 Equalizer circling overhead.

Admittedly, I love all this stuff and I think that sure, maybe it would be cool and I'm just not seeing it. However,  to me, Tarkov should be about soldiers and gunfights.  Drones take away from that, in my mind.  I mean, we don't even have real comms.  

What happened to ultra realism? Its still there, very much WIP, but for the 1000th time realism isnt a 1 or 0 type of thing. Realism is not either ON or OFF. Think about it, seriously, ofc we are gonna have unrealistic features too and limits that make the sandbox a little bit more balanced.

Having equipment that allows people to see everything while staying in cover is only gonna equal the playing field to those who can use this equipment as a squad effectively. Nothing bad in that for its own value, but as you can understand, all outdoors areas could be locked down immediately after the raid starts. Its kinda the same as thermals.. if they would be realistic, they would be so powerful that it would deny ANY chance from other players of getting past. 

Im gonna quote @tobiassolem from now on in this always repeating discussion of realism and how short-sighted peeps think its 1 or 0: 

Quote

 

This subject is very hard to discuss for me, because by principle I agree that realism should be the key #1 goal in the development of the game, and I also agree that many things in Escape From Tarkov are not particularly realistic, and I would want most of them to be.

With this said though, I think everyone agrees that there are limits to using realism as a reference for how the game should be played. There are many gameisms (map boundries, raid time limits, non-permadeath, square-box inventory system, et cetera.) that we take for granted and accept because it is a game.

So what we are actually discussing is how far these gameisms actually should go. We don't allow players to "respawn" into the same raid (mostly, in some cases you can SCAV into the same raid), and you don't "leave the game" by disconnecting (like in DayZ for example).

These things are all fundamentals of an "unrealistic game".

LEVELS OF REALISM:

There are also levels of realism, no matter what the mechanic we implement it will not be real. It will simulate realism, but still be a man made representation similar to the mechanic as it works in real life. How detailed this representation is, is what we are practically analyzing. If we take a bullet for example, we could simulate the material of the casing (tube), the primer,  the caliber, the propellant powder (and grain size), the material of the tube, the material and shape of the bullet, as well as weight, et cetera. - all of this could of course be emulated on an as realistic level as possible, using representations from their real-world counterparts (density, etc.). If we want "as realistic as possible" all of this would have to be done, and then we are merely scratching the surface of realism. If we want to then emulate how the primer interacts with the gunpowder, calculate force (using mathematics) trajectory, exact gravity, ballistics, air moisture, windage, earth rotation (coriolis), spin (depending on barrel bore) etc. etc. - all of these can of course be exactly simulated to the very essence.

And if we apply the same minutae to every mechanic in the game, we would have a game that is "as realistic as possible", it would take probably decades to make - but at least "the word" from 2016 would be kept. Right?

 

But I don't actually think that most of you want this, or at least realistically expected this level of realism. There are "shades" to this. Personally I want the game to be more realistic than it is currently.

LET'S BE REAL:

I think it is important in these discussions to speak in proper terms, because the word "realistic" is so frustratingly subjective it becomes almost redundant. The expression "as realistic as possible" or "uncompromisingly realistic" is similarly subjective and each person forms their own opinion of what that means.

If we want to be REAL, we should break down the game and its mechanics and formulate specific examples of what type of realism we want and expect. For example:

I expect the RPG-element of the game NOT to exceed the realism of the game

By that, I mean that there should be no "magic" in Escape From Tarkov. Whilst EFT takes place in an alternate future, I can accept that there have been developments that allow for "certain super-human" traits (eg. some stims are acceptable). But there shouldn't be a SKILL that allows me to bleed less than another human. There is NO WAY to "train" your body to bleed less. You don't become better at bleeding less just because you've bled often. Quite the contrary. Scar tissue is softer and more prone to rupture than regular skin (for example).

If we can formulate realistic examples of what level of realism we expect, I think the debate would become more constructive.

 

 

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