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Matt85

armored rigs: 6B5-16 vs 6B3TM-01M

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Matt85

recently ive been noticing that lower armor classes seem to be more effective against powerful cartridges then they used to be. this has me asking myself which armored rig is better 6B5-16 (lvl 3 80hp) or 6B3TM-01M (lvl 4 40hp). in the past I always went for the 6B3TM-01M rig and it was my standard armor for average non-geared runs but now im wondering.

your thoughts? thanks

-Matt

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davidj123456

Get the Level 4 one not the Level 3 one. The Level 3 one will not protect you from common rounds such as 7.62x39 PS, 5.45x39 BT, and many others that Level 4 would protect you against. 

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Matt85
6 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

Get the Level 4 one not the Level 3 one. The Level 3 one will not protect you from common rounds such as 7.62x39 PS, 5.45x39 BT, and many others that Level 4 would protect you against. 

 in this patch i have numerous examples showing that lvl 3 armor will in fact defend against these ammunition types and even more powerful ammunition. it may not completely stop the damage but it will greatly reduce it. 

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GentlemanJ

I mean, the difference between level 3 armor and level 4 is around 4k roubles on Ragman (if you have it unlocked).

Always go for higher level of protection in order to get the best chance

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davidj123456
5 hours ago, Matt85 said:

 in this patch i have numerous examples showing that lvl 3 armor will in fact defend against these ammunition types and even more powerful ammunition. it may not completely stop the damage but it will greatly reduce it. 

If an ammunition has 32 penetration or 37 penetration then level 3 will not stop it at all lmao

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Matt85
On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 5:03 AM, davidj123456 said:

If an ammunition has 32 penetration or 37 penetration then level 3 will not stop it at all lmao

things change.

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davidj123456
1 hour ago, Matt85 said:

things change.

They have not changed. It still works exactly like this. Level 4 is better than Level 3. The only benefit is the durability on the level 3 armor. But most a lot of Scavs and basically all players can penetrate Level 3 making it entirely useless.

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GeneralBrus
On 10/27/2020 at 1:03 PM, davidj123456 said:

If an ammunition has 32 penetration or 37 penetration then level 3 will not stop it at all lmao

Well, you are forgetting the dmg reduction, which made it so that last patch, back when we only had 80 hp on the thorax, M80 did not 1 hit kill vs lvl 3 armor. So basically m80 had enough pen to go through lvl 3 armor, but not enough to completely ignore it, and so some of that 80 dmg was lost.

This mechanic still exists, but the one shot meta has been basically destroyed, everything is different now when it comes to sniper bullets, only thing that stayed the same is the full auto meta vs armor, because 5 more HP doesnt matter anything to something that couldn't one hit kill you to begin with.

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davidj123456
1 hour ago, GeneralBrus said:

Well, you are forgetting the dmg reduction, which made it so that last patch, back when we only had 80 hp on the thorax, M80 did not 1 hit kill vs lvl 3 armor. So basically m80 had enough pen to go through lvl 3 armor, but not enough to completely ignore it, and so some of that 80 dmg was lost.

This mechanic still exists, but the one shot meta has been basically destroyed, everything is different now when it comes to sniper bullets, only thing that stayed the same is the full auto meta vs armor, because 5 more HP doesnt matter anything to something that couldn't one hit kill you to begin with.

The damage reduction you are talking about could be done with level 2 armor also... so it is barely a valid point...
The level 4 armored rig is only 48K. It is the same if not cheaper than most level 3 armor. Just buy level 4 instead and problem solved.

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GeneralBrus
7 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

The level 4 armored rig is only 48K.

Yeah, thats still the most efficient body armor in the game, only thing that sux is its repairs.

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GeneralBrus
7 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

The damage reduction you are talking about could be done with level 2 armor also...

Are you sure about that? Because by that logic a paca also would have been enough to make sure you survive exactly 1 m80 shot, which im pretty sure it didn'

The whole mix between pen chanche, armor dmg, damage absorption/reduction, fracture chance, classes of armor, armor material, armor hitpoints and pen power.... all of these things combined make it basically impossible to figure out,  how many rounds you need to kill someone, just by looking at the numbers.

I always watch test videos or i check these things out myself, because something like 37 pen is just not enough to tell me how many rounds i can take, which is more important to me than knowing against what ammo i am immune. Every bullet counts.

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davidj123456
6 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

Are you sure about that? Because by that logic a paca also would have been enough to make sure you survive exactly 1 m80 shot, which im pretty sure it didn'

The whole mix between pen chanche, armor dmg, damage absorption/reduction, fracture chance, classes of armor, armor material, armor hitpoints and pen power.... all of these things combined make it basically impossible to figure out,  how many rounds you need to kill someone, just by looking at the numbers.

I always watch test videos or i check these things out myself, because something like 37 pen is just not enough to tell me how many rounds i can take, which is more important to me than knowing against what ammo i am immune. Every bullet counts.

Go on the wiki and read about it... it has been figured out. If you do not want to die use level 4 and better yet level 5. Do not use level 3 because it is worse than garbage.

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Reymt

The 6B3TM is a real, hidden gem xD

Altho these days you get an M2 rig on the flea market for 60-65k or so, thats usually better at that pricepoint.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb GeneralBrus:

Are you sure about that? Because by that logic a paca also would have been enough to make sure you survive exactly 1 m80 shot, which im pretty sure it didn'

You survive an M80 shot because the Thorax HP was increased to 85, and M80 does 81 damage or so.

Otherwise Im fairly sure there is no or next to no damage mitigation, if I havent missed a major change last patch.

Edited by Reymt

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Matt85
1 hour ago, Reymt said:

The 6B3TM is a real, hidden gem xD

Altho these days you get an M2 rig on the flea market for 60-65k or so, thats usually better at that pricepoint.

You survive an M80 shot because the Thorax HP was increased to 85, and M80 does 81 damage or so.

Otherwise Im fairly sure there is no or next to no damage mitigation, if I havent missed a major change last patch.

I did some testing using the new RFB firing M80 ammunition. the damage mitigation is real, the 6B2 armor will turn a 2 shot kill into a 3 shot kill. level 3 armor with a large hp pool will eat some a surprising number of M80 rounds.

someone (maybe me) needs to get a willing test subject and do some testing with various body armors.

-matt

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GeneralBrus
5 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

Go on the wiki and read about it... it has been figured out.

what do you mean ?

2 hours ago, Reymt said:

You survive an M80 shot because the Thorax HP was increased to 85, and M80 does 81 damage or so.

we were talking about last patch, just so to let you know...

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davidj123456
35 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

what do you mean ?

we were talking about last patch, just so to let you know...

They are made of the same material. They repair the same. They cost the same. They are both fairly bad rigs that nobody will pick up so they will return in insurance. 
The issue is the Level 3 rig will NOT STOP BULLETS WITH ABOVE 30 PENETRATION! It is that simple. If you have armor class 3 and a bullet has 31 penetration it has a 100% chance to penetrate (unless it is a helmet but we are talking about rigs). Yes, the level 3 rig will absorb some damage... but so will the level 4 rig... and that one can actually protect you...
They cost the same, and they both absorb damage. The difference is one protects you and the other one does not. Why would you ever buy the one that does not protect you? You care about a some extra durability even if it means you your life?

Here are some extremely common ammo types that PMC's use which level 3 will not save you from but level 4 will:
5.56x45 M855*, M856A1
7.62x39 PS
5.45x39 BT, BP
9x39 SP-5
9x19 AP63, 7N31
5.7x28 SS190
12/70 AP20, Flechette

Here are some common ammo types that Scav's use which level 3 will not always save you from but level 4 will:
7.62x39 PS, T45M*
.366 EKO*
7.62x51 TPZ SP, BPZ FMJ*
9x18 PBM*
5.56x45 M855*
5.45x39 BP, PP*

Bullets with a * the level 3 armor has a small chance to stop but you should not depend on this chance, and level 4 will have an insanely higher chance to stop these bullets.


It really is not hard... use brain and pick level 4...

Edited by davidj123456
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Reymt
vor 2 Stunden schrieb Matt85:

I did some testing using the new RFB firing M80 ammunition. the damage mitigation is real, the 6B2 armor will turn a 2 shot kill into a 3 shot kill. level 3 armor with a large hp pool will eat some a surprising number of M80 rounds.

someone (maybe me) needs to get a willing test subject and do some testing with various body armors.

-matt

Oh wow, I looked it up, apparently there was a change to armor penning; apparently in 12.6? Cant see anything in the changelog. Looks like nofoodaftermidnight did, once again, the math:

https://tarkovaftermidnight.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/armor-and-penetration/

Zitat

If the bullet penetrates, it deals between 0% and 40% less damage based on an algorithm that uses the bullet’s pen value and the armor’s class and durability %. There is a strong correlation between the penetration chance the penetrating round had, and the damage reduction applied to it: The higher the chance the less damage reduction, with high armor classes and high pen values of ammo having lower reductions than others. Most penetrations will be around 20% damage reduction when a bullet starts to penetrate an armor, but things like a PACA vs m995 will result in 0% reduction.

Some of that stuff sounds like there always was damage mitigation. Im confused, I had been told there was none.

Edited by Reymt

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Ryveia

For clarity, there is damage mitigation. The exact numbers I do not know, but even nofoodformidnight knows about it, and he's the one that created the ballistic charts. Also, 6b3tm from ragman 2 is what you use until you get ragman 3, and then you use the barter for M1 riggs. Both are the most cost effective tier 4 armors, and arguably the most cost effective armors in the game until the more recent Korund armor, which is a t5 that has great reparability at 100k rubles. 6b3tm(4) - 48k M1(4) (12-14k aquamari, 4) - 50-55k Korund(5) - 100k

The best part about the M1 is that it has 2 2x2 slots and plenty 1x2 slots.

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GeneralBrus
8 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

If you have armor class 3 and a bullet has 31 penetration it has a 100% chance to penetrate

Yes, but its still better than nothing, because of the dmg reduction, it will most likely turn a 2 hit kill, into a 3 hit kill, so its not useless against pistol runners, noobs, scavs and playerscavs will need most likely 1 more hit to kill you, so it still has its purpose.

However you are right, lvl 4 is just straight up better, because it can tank some mid tier rounds. 

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Tocki

I think a good example that lvl6 isnt always better than lvl5 is:
Redut t5 (lvl5 with 100 durability, combined mat.) and Zhuk (lvl6 with 75 durability, ceramic).
you need about 7 bullets of 9x19 7n31 to get through the lvl5 armor (to get >90% to pen), because the armor damage is lower thanks to combined materials, but you only need around 4 shots to get through the lvl6 armor.
Overall i would say, take higher class, if the durability is almost the same, higher classes give better "first/second shot" protection.

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Tocki
vor 9 Stunden schrieb davidj123456:

The issue is the Level 3 rig will NOT STOP BULLETS WITH ABOVE 30 PENETRATION! It is that simple. If you have armor class 3 and a bullet has 31 penetration it has a 100% chance to penetrate (unless it is a helmet but we are talking about rigs). Yes, the level 3 rig will absorb some damage...

its not 100%, its around 90% (31 pen versus lvl3 armor). So it could absorb it, but unlikely. but Always take lvl3 armor, if you dont have anything else in your stash, those ~10% might save your life, if you are lucky.
The pen on helmets and armor of lvl3 is the same, the only difference is the ricochet chance on steel helmets on certain angles.

Edited by Tocki

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GeneralBrus
1 hour ago, Tocki said:

the only difference is the ricochet chance on steel helmets on certain angles.

I believe that is not true here, im pretty sure that angles have no effect at all, seems to me the ricochet chance is just a placeholder and completely based on RNG.

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davidj123456
7 hours ago, Tocki said:

its not 100%, its around 90% (31 pen versus lvl3 armor). So it could absorb it, but unlikely. but Always take lvl3 armor, if you dont have anything else in your stash, those ~10% might save your life, if you are lucky.
The pen on helmets and armor of lvl3 is the same, the only difference is the ricochet chance on steel helmets on certain angles.

Something with 31 pen has a 100% chance to penetrate level 3. This is how the game works. 90% chance is on 29 pen. This is for armor and not for helmets.
We are talking about 2 armors that cost the same here. The level 4 one is better.

8 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

Yes, but its still better than nothing, because of the dmg reduction, it will most likely turn a 2 hit kill, into a 3 hit kill, so its not useless against pistol runners, noobs, scavs and playerscavs will need most likely 1 more hit to kill you, so it still has its purpose.

However you are right, lvl 4 is just straight up better, because it can tank some mid tier rounds. 

We are not talking about better than nothing. We are comparing 2 armors. The level 4 one is better. This is a fact... 
They cost the same and have the same material. The only difference is 1 saves your life much more often than the other...

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Tocki
vor 13 Minuten schrieb davidj123456:

Something with 31 pen has a 100% chance to penetrate level 3. This is how the game works. 90% chance is on 29 pen. This is for armor and not for helmets.
We are talking about 2 armors that cost the same here. The level 4 one is better.

We are not talking about better than nothing. We are comparing 2 armors. The level 4 one is better. This is a fact... 
They cost the same and have the same material. The only difference is 1 saves your life much more often than the other...

Where did you get this information? Why do you think that 31 pen has a 100% chance to penetrate lvl3 armor?

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