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etra_kurdaj

Twitch style gameplay is cancer

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etra_kurdaj

I'm prone, ADS, in the most absolutely ready firing position imaginable. 

Player scav Q peaks a corner and Head-Jaws me in the twentieth of a second he was on my screen. 

The game needs to stop this rigid "firearm is always in the perfect ready position always". I feel like I played better, but the player scav played the technical aspects of the game better. Knowing that hip-fire is more accurate than aiming, knowing that aim IS NOT thrown off by rapid ADAD or Q/E peaks, he played the system better.

And I think the system is rotten. Why go to the bother of such in-depth injuries, hydration, energy, and RPG mechanics if all this thought is going to be tossed aside when someone can game the game better. 

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GeneralBrus
10 hours ago, etra_kurdaj said:

I'm prone, ADS, in the most absolutely ready firing position imaginable. 

Player scav Q peaks a corner and Head-Jaws me in the twentieth of a second he was on my screen. 

The game needs to stop this rigid "firearm is always in the perfect ready position always". I feel like I played better, but the player scav played the technical aspects of the game better. Knowing that hip-fire is more accurate than aiming, knowing that aim IS NOT thrown off by rapid ADAD or Q/E peaks, he played the system better.

And I think the system is rotten. Why go to the bother of such in-depth injuries, hydration, energy, and RPG mechanics if all this thought is going to be tossed aside when someone can game the game better. 

Its the core of the game we are talking about, i wish tarkov had a more like squad movement system which would be:

-Moving sideways has basically the same speed, regardless of you aiming down sights or not.

-Moving sideways is much slower than moving forward. 

-Moving sideways in squad has about 30% the movement speed of Tarkov, so its super slow compared to Tarkov.

-and a controversial feature: movement speed doesnt change on your kit, everyone has the same speed, regardless of you carrying a heavy anti tank weapon, a machine gun or just a ППШ sub machine gun. Seems unrealistic at first but still creates a more immersive firefight because everyone gets the same strafing and peekers advantage.

And lets not forget that a maximum of 4 or maybe 5 bullets will kill you if all hit the legs, but usually its 2 bodyshots to kill and 1 headshot to kill.

All of this combined makes planning, maneuvers, cover and tactics more important than knowing how to manipulate the game physics, and yeah all of this is what i call " tactical, immersive, hardcore gameplay"

 

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behi09ma

the only and only streamer that i can watch is Klean. that's it. maybe it is just me, but the others give me headache after 5 mins.

 

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etra_kurdaj

Follow-up:

Reflexes are important. Reaction time is important. Map knowledge is important. Recognizing silhouettes and shapes in the darkness that shouldn't be there is important. 

There are a LOT of important things for players to know and learn, and it is never a handicap to be able to do any action more quickly.

However. I think the game should change to stop allowing characters to have these super-human reflexes, like snap-leaning and firing a perfectly aimed shot everytime. 

Competition and trick shooters like Jerry Miculek - in laboratory like settings - couldn't do the things that dirty, tired, hungry, stressed Player Scavs can do, and it's only because the game has

  • zero or negligible weapon sway while strafing or leaning
  • more reliable accuracy while hip firing than with ADS
  • zero accuracy cost towards sprinting or jumping or anything - what superman can sprint for 20 seconds with a 40kg pack, stop, hold their breath, and bullseye a target 40m away within half a second of stopping?

What roleplaying?

What realism?

High graphical fidelity on a foregrip DOES NOT make this game more realistic or immersive than COD or BF. That comes from the atmosphere, the sound design, and the realistic behaviors of the actors in the game. 

I'm having a ball sneaking through the maps, looting, listening for nearby players, and then as soon as I see a player character, the game stops being EFT and starts being a round of Halo 3 multiplayer, with the bunny-hopping, strafing, and terribly unrealistic online FPS shenanigans'. 

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WaidenAlker

I think you're right for the most part with this it hits home on a lot of problems. Realism needs to be simulated with weapons players shouldn't be able to lean spam or make any rapid movements without huge accuracy penalties.

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JeffFromEarth
44 minutes ago, WaidenAlker said:

I think you're right for the most part with this it hits home on a lot of problems. Realism needs to be simulated with weapons players shouldn't be able to lean spam or make any rapid movements without huge accuracy penalties.

there should be some penalty, lean popping is not out of this world though. highly training shooters can do it. however i don't think any character except almost max should be qualified enough to be able to do so. there should be more sway while moving and leaning in my opinion. idk about the newest patch i'm dling right now compared to yesterday but 8 rounds from my scout rifle(76.2x51) never registered onto a scav with no armor from about 50m away and i ended up grabbing the attention of a PMC and got shot in the back of the head on Woods.

 

>hit registering is an active  problem

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etra_kurdaj
5 hours ago, JeffFromEarth said:

there should be some penalty, lean popping is not out of this world though. highly training shooters can do it. however i don't think any character except almost max should be qualified enough to be able to do so. there should be more sway while moving and leaning in my opinion. idk about the newest patch i'm dling right now compared to yesterday but 8 rounds from my scout rifle(76.2x51) never registered onto a scav with no armor from about 50m away and i ended up grabbing the attention of a PMC and got shot in the back of the head on Woods.

 

>hit registering is an active  problem

I disagree that some of these shooting situations are even possible:

  • a take a non-fatal hit to the arm from a direction
  • you make an informed guess about where the shooter is
  • you navigate around the map to do a flank
  • unbeknownst to you, the shooter hears you coming and is 40m away, proned, looking in the direction you'll be coming from
  • you take a Q lean peak from around the corner to confirm the shooter's location
  • the shooter sees the peak
  • you relocate another 15m back and around cover
  • the shooter sees you move (feet from under the truck)
  • there is no mystery between either of you now, you know that he knows where you are, he has a rifle, he's shot you before, and you're about to peak in front of his sights a second time
  • but it's ok, because you Q peak a second time and .366 him Head/Jaws from 50m away. The number of frames you were even visible on his screen for your shot is under two digits. 

Great game. Really makes me want to enter a new raid. 

What advantage in positioning if a peaker can overcome every defensive advantage?

Why bother even sneaking at all if it's possible for someone to just corner every single person they see?

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Zeroa
18 minutes ago, etra_kurdaj said:

I disagree that some of these shooting situations are even possible:

  • a take a non-fatal hit to the arm from a direction
  • you make an informed guess about where the shooter is
  • you navigate around the map to do a flank
  • unbeknownst to you, the shooter hears you coming and is 40m away, proned, looking in the direction you'll be coming from
  • you take a Q lean peak from around the corner to confirm the shooter's location
  • the shooter sees the peak
  • you relocate another 15m back and around cover
  • the shooter sees you move (feet from under the truck)
  • there is no mystery between either of you now, you know that he knows where you are, he has a rifle, he's shot you before, and you're about to peak in front of his sights a second time
  • but it's ok, because you Q peak a second time and .366 him Head/Jaws from 50m away. The number of frames you were even visible on his screen for your shot is under two digits. 

Great game. Really makes me want to enter a new raid. 

What advantage in positioning if a peaker can overcome every defensive advantage?

Why bother even sneaking at all if it's possible for someone to just corner every single person they see?

In this situation it's an easy kill for the evader as the shooter has not changed positions. It's an easy shot as the evader has successfully rotated without dying and identified the threat's location and made a good shot. (my opinion of course.) 

5 hours ago, JeffFromEarth said:

>hit registering is an active  problem

Please submit bug reports with as much info as possible including pictures, video, links, etc to help contribute to solving the known issue.  I've included a guide below on how to do so.

Thanks!

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etra_kurdaj
17 minutes ago, Zeroa said:

In this situation it's an easy kill for the evader as the shooter has not changed positions. It's an easy shot as the evader has successfully rotated without dying and identified the threat's location and made a good shot. (my opinion of course.)

This reply is fantastic.

Everything I typed, it all just zoomed right over your head. Fabulous. 

Which game do these behaviors belong to, EFT or Halo?

  • mobility is an asset! Just keep zooming. The players who camp / hold a position are disadvantaging themselves!
  • just rush and face tap. Nothing you do movement-wise will interfere with your aim! Gotta keep zooming!
  • took a hit? Don't worry, crouch out of combat for a few seconds and you'll be ok again!

Don't forget to teabag your opponent! It's the only way to show how good you are.

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Zeroa
14 hours ago, etra_kurdaj said:

This reply is fantastic.

Thank you.

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K1921
On 10/29/2020 at 11:14 PM, etra_kurdaj said:

I'm prone, ADS, in the most absolutely ready firing position imaginable. 

Player scav Q peaks a corner and Head-Jaws me in the twentieth of a second he was on my screen. 

The game needs to stop this rigid "firearm is always in the perfect ready position always". I feel like I played better, but the player scav played the technical aspects of the game better. Knowing that hip-fire is more accurate than aiming, knowing that aim IS NOT thrown off by rapid ADAD or Q/E peaks, he played the system better.

And I think the system is rotten. Why go to the bother of such in-depth injuries, hydration, energy, and RPG mechanics if all this thought is going to be tossed aside when someone can game the game better. 

Let's not forget also that since they've increased the character running speed and jump height know everybody are jumping like fokin super mario bros.

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Servicer_Skynet
On 10/29/2020 at 5:14 PM, etra_kurdaj said:

I'm prone, ADS, in the most absolutely ready firing position imaginable. 

Player scav Q peaks a corner and Head-Jaws me in the twentieth of a second he was on my screen. 

The game needs to stop this rigid "firearm is always in the perfect ready position always". I feel like I played better, but the player scav played the technical aspects of the game better. Knowing that hip-fire is more accurate than aiming, knowing that aim IS NOT thrown off by rapid ADAD or Q/E peaks, he played the system better.

And I think the system is rotten. Why go to the bother of such in-depth injuries, hydration, energy, and RPG mechanics if all this thought is going to be tossed aside when someone can game the game better. 

I think that what might fix this is leanspam jerking your gun off course, and a limiter for rate of lean change.

In addition, maybe make fire bloom more accentuated by rapid movement? It seems like to me that if you're jerking around, gun accuracy would be poo.

On 10/30/2020 at 3:47 AM, GeneralBrus said:

Its the core of the game we are talking about, i wish tarkov had a more like squad movement system which would be:

-Moving sideways has basically the same speed, regardless of you aiming down sights or not.

-Moving sideways is much slower than moving forward. 

-Moving sideways in squad has about 30% the movement speed of Tarkov, so its super slow compared to Tarkov.

-and a controversial feature: movement speed doesnt change on your kit, everyone has the same speed, regardless of you carrying a heavy anti tank weapon, a machine gun or just a ППШ sub machine gun. Seems unrealistic at first but still creates a more immersive firefight because everyone gets the same strafing and peekers advantage.

And lets not forget that a maximum of 4 or maybe 5 bullets will kill you if all hit the legs, but usually its 2 bodyshots to kill and 1 headshot to kill.

All of this combined makes planning, maneuvers, cover and tactics more important than knowing how to manipulate the game physics, and yeah all of this is what i call " tactical, immersive, hardcore gameplay"

 

I think that moving sideways should honestly be the same speed, or close.

Further, movement speed based on weight should still be a thing, but like, have a pacing system? Idk.

Further, I think that the ttk on Squad is just ridiculous. I want to see people not die from a graze thank you.

On 10/30/2020 at 2:11 PM, etra_kurdaj said:

Follow-up:

Reflexes are important. Reaction time is important. Map knowledge is important. Recognizing silhouettes and shapes in the darkness that shouldn't be there is important. 

There are a LOT of important things for players to know and learn, and it is never a handicap to be able to do any action more quickly.

However. I think the game should change to stop allowing characters to have these super-human reflexes, like snap-leaning and firing a perfectly aimed shot everytime. 

Competition and trick shooters like Jerry Miculek - in laboratory like settings - couldn't do the things that dirty, tired, hungry, stressed Player Scavs can do, and it's only because the game has

  • zero or negligible weapon sway while strafing or leaning
  • more reliable accuracy while hip firing than with ADS
  • zero accuracy cost towards sprinting or jumping or anything - what superman can sprint for 20 seconds with a 40kg pack, stop, hold their breath, and bullseye a target 40m away within half a second of stopping?

What roleplaying?

What realism?

High graphical fidelity on a foregrip DOES NOT make this game more realistic or immersive than COD or BF. That comes from the atmosphere, the sound design, and the realistic behaviors of the actors in the game. 

I'm having a ball sneaking through the maps, looting, listening for nearby players, and then as soon as I see a player character, the game stops being EFT and starts being a round of Halo 3 multiplayer, with the bunny-hopping, strafing, and terribly unrealistic online FPS shenanigans'. 

Stamina really should affect other things more harshly. If you're running hard, and then stop, unless you've braced the gun, there is no way in hell accuracy is associated with you. Further, maybe add an element of unzeroing? If you don't aim for a while, then the gun might drift off course a little.

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Hyperborean_

The way max strength buffs your movement is the biggest problem imo. The Twitch play style is so prevalent because it works, they need some sort of inertia system but also they need to nerf the max speed you can achieve in game to something more realistic

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GeneralBrus
48 minutes ago, Hyperborean_ said:

The way max strength buffs your movement is the biggest problem imo. The Twitch play style is so prevalent because it works, they need some sort of inertia system but also they need to nerf the max speed you can achieve in game to something more realistic

Even min strength speed is way to fast, most hardcore realism shooters i play have sprinting speed that is comparable to the standard "walking" tarkov has. 

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DeadmodeUK

Whichever way you cut it, and whatever changes are made (if any) over time, you will ALWAYS have players who will be able to min-max the playstyle to perfectly cheese the mechanics to be super-effective. It is a computer game, after all. People will always learn to cheese a game and have done with every game from the dawn of video gaming itself.

The problem is trying to impose more realism to constrain such playstyles but actually hurts gameplay in general. You NEED to have a balance in realism and gameplay. If you want realism, then we should all get taken down by full-auto magdumps to ANY armour as the concussive effect of the round impacts would incapacitate you anyway, regardless of any penetration or not. That would make for an awful game though, wouldn't it.

So, in short, whatever you do, you will ALWAYS have players who cheese whatever mechanics are in place. You can wind the mechanics in a bit to be closer to real life (sprint speeds and transition delays etc), but people will still find a way to cheese things.

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LoginTaken
On 10/31/2020 at 1:00 PM, Zeroa said:

Thank you.

This was comically oblivious or comically uncaring.

On 10/30/2020 at 10:02 PM, Zeroa said:

Please submit bug reports with as much info as possible including pictures, video, links, etc to help contribute to solving the known issue.  I've included a guide below on how to do so.

Thanks!

You heard the man.

You have hit reg issues, submit a bug report.

Cause crashing the forum is apparently whats needed to point out the problem.....

 

 

Regardless the OP has a good point.

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