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Nameless_Terror

Kills should cost xp, not give it.

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Nameless_Terror

I was really curious how the game dynamics would change if the xp for killing players and scavs was removed and possibly made negative if you killed players (for the raid). Raiders and bosses would make sense to give kill xp, but players and scavs aren't supposed to be automatically hostile. Maybe even an xp gain every time you exchanged a greeting with another player or scav. Of course players would still be tempted to kill on sight to protect their gear, but I think it would give the survival aspect more room to expand. 
 

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davidj123456

Scavs are meant to be hostile to PMCs so killing them should give XP.
For PMCs right now they are all hostile and are meant to be killed, however this should maybe be added with the Karma system. But definitely not right now, right now KOS is supposed to occur.

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Kyuzo-Zekken
On 11/19/2020 at 4:31 AM, davidj123456 said:

 But definitely not right now, right now KOS is supposed to occur.

  Not particularly true, it's just more expected plus there is little reward in letting someone go. On top of that there's no real local VOIP other than the premade character vocals which is limited in effect. The eventual inclusion of the Karma system is meant to reduce killing similar characters, and make it so player scavs have repercussions(well for however long that will last).

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revplague

So from what I remember (dont quote me) Nikita wants to put in a karma system, which if you killed someone of the same faction IE - Bear on Bear , you would have negative repercussions. I can not remember if the idea was scrapped or if they are still working it out.

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8odycount

I will always kill on sight. Usecs, Bears, Scavs, I will kill them all. That's how a shooter works. This isn't a team shooter. You can reward players for playing together but you can't punish them if they refuse to play with other players and risk their gear to others. What if a Usec is in a dark spot and shoots me or I see someone in a dark spot and don't shoot him, because I think it's a Usec? And then it's a bear and I die or I kill a usec and get punished for that? By traders not selling to me or my weapons are jamming? That's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe that was the initial idea 6 years ago. But this game evolved and is something else today, which everybody likes. Why would you force a complete other gameplay and make the game something completely different? Why would anybody want to run around with random players and kill bots? PVP is the most exciting in this game and you never know when it will happen. That's the thrill Tarkov is delivering. A karma system would change the game completely. And and I don't think not gaining any XP from kills would be a good idea either. It doesn't make any sense. This is a hostile world, where you can trust nobody. You fight for your life and to survive and you never know if the next player doesn't shoot you in the back, when you turn around and takes all your stuff. Players should decide themself how they want to play. If some people want to play with random guys - sure let them do so. I won't activate VOIP anyway, because people will spam sound effects, talk BS all the time, trolling with music and so on.

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Tullu
On 11/19/2020 at 12:41 AM, Nameless_Terror said:

I was really curious how the game dynamics would change if the xp for killing players and scavs was removed and possibly made negative if you killed players (for the raid). Raiders and bosses would make sense to give kill xp, but players and scavs aren't supposed to be automatically hostile. Maybe even an xp gain every time you exchanged a greeting with another player or scav. Of course players would still be tempted to kill on sight to protect their gear, but I think it would give the survival aspect more room to expand. 
 

I like the idea. Risk of leveling down as a Karma system is pretty cool

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DanExert
On 11/19/2020 at 12:31 PM, davidj123456 said:

But definitely not right now, right now KOS is supposed to occur.

This is incorrect. KOS does mostly occur yes, but it is not forced nor is it encouraged by the game or the story/lore.

There's just no real incentive at the moment to not KOS which is a major issue with the current build

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Nameless_Terror

 

On 11/19/2020 at 5:31 AM, davidj123456 said:

Scavs are meant to be hostile to PMCs so killing them should give XP.
For PMCs right now they are all hostile and are meant to be killed, however this should maybe be added with the Karma system. But definitely not right now, right now KOS is supposed to occur.

No. The karma system is not BEAR vs USEC. The whole premise is that former enemies can chose to work together to get out of tarkov when the communication breaks down. Tarkov is also not a "shooter" game where battle royal is the expected outcome. If you truly believe that you did zero research before buying it. 

 

20 hours ago, revplague said:

So from what I remember (dont quote me) Nikita wants to put in a karma system, which if you killed someone of the same faction IE - Bear on Bear , you would have negative repercussions. I can not remember if the idea was scrapped or if they are still working it out.

Its not bear vs usec. Remember the factions have disintegrated. The goal is survival. An early trailer shows a usec and a bear chose to help each other. 

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Kaptivus

Christ the amount of elitism here is staggering.

"I don't like your playstyle, you're trash."

Well, bruh, that's why terms like "Chad" and "rat" were coined. Because people play different ways.

This game, as awesome as it is, isn't free from the "Unity Curse" (look it up) It basically insinuates that every game made in Unity is destined to be a resource/inventory management/survival app with some game action involved. The fact that this one in particular is a PVP FPS means that some people are going to try to find work-arounds and methods to succeed that don't involve direct combat, because not everybody studied Pestily's bullet damage and penetration charts or the numerical values of all the different rifles. You may argue "then this game isn't for them" but how can you argue people having fun and continuing to play regardless of that opinion?

My man above was like "if you don't know that then you did absolutely no research before buying this game." MY GUY. CHILL OUT. The lore of this game IS NOT obvious, nor is it explained to you, in any way. It's there if you choose to look for it, but only so. There is no intro, there is no opening cutscene when you install the game. There are people that love this game and have no idea what the story is. Because it isn't apparent, or important to them. Jesus.

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Nameless_Terror
19 hours ago, Kaptivus said:

My man above was like "if you don't know that then you did absolutely no research before buying this game." MY GUY. CHILL OUT. The lore of this game IS NOT obvious, nor is it explained to you, in any way. It's there if you choose to look for it, but only so. There is no intro, there is no opening cutscene when you install the game. There are people that love this game and have no idea what the story is. Because it isn't apparent, or important to them. Jesus.

I'm not sure what part of what I said implied I was excited? The game is in beta. It's not a released title in any regard. 5 minutes of research tells you some basic stuff that many seem oblivious to. 30 minutes of research will give you all you need to know that this game was not intended as a battle royal. I don't know about you but I don't shell out 100$ in a beta without looking into the game a little bit. 

I made a post about something I thought would help get people used to the games design so that if they ever do implement even half the changes they are planning, its not such a culture shock to the player base. I bought this game for PVP battle royal despite knowing that would all disappear one day. This won't be the first game I bought in because the beta was fun and then never played after release because I thought the finished idea was dumb. 

Removing part of the reward for murdering other players might get the game closer to the intended game world. That's all I was trying to say. Play however you want. I'm sure there will be a place for griefers to murder everyone if they so choose. 

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chrisragnar

This would be the ultimate way to increase amount of hatchet types that just sprint around looting all good things without any risk.

I get you think it will be all epic and "realistic", but honestly it will be people sprinting past you to get to the loot first, and people sprinting in and out of cover desperately trying to figure out if the other player will shoot them or not. 

The new sprint meta

Now not rewarding xp for kills might work. But removing XP for player kills would be very detrimental.

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p4nnus
On 11/19/2020 at 1:41 AM, Nameless_Terror said:

I was really curious how the game dynamics would change if the xp for killing players and scavs was removed and possibly made negative if you killed players (for the raid). Raiders and bosses would make sense to give kill xp, but players and scavs aren't supposed to be automatically hostile. Maybe even an xp gain every time you exchanged a greeting with another player or scav. Of course players would still be tempted to kill on sight to protect their gear, but I think it would give the survival aspect more room to expand. 

I dont think its a good idea. Doing things will gain you experience in said things. Killing shouldnt be any different. Im pretty sure people get better at it anyways, IRL too. Karma on the other hand, I dont really know how its gonna be implemented, but theres been talks about possibly having some maps with Karma enabled and others where theres no penalties. I think this approach could bring in an interesting dynamic. Also, AFAIK, the penalties thought about have been like small minuses to trader rep once certain threshold is reached / time limit, so I dont think its gonna penalize anyone too much.

If the Karma works on some maps and not in others, it will create an interesting dynamic in the way that people like me @8odycount can just fool people to trust us in these Karma maps, so we can then betray them and get some damn easy loot. 

Anyways, penalties are not a good way to handle this IMO, but small disincentives can be okay. Its just kinda paradoxical - either you give such hard penalties that players are scared of shooting same PMC operators, or its very small, people will just ignore it. 

On 11/23/2020 at 6:36 AM, Kaptivus said:

Christ the amount of elitism here is staggering. "I don't like your playstyle, you're trash." Well, bruh, that's why terms like "Chad" and "rat" were coined. Because people play different ways.

You are complaining about elitism in a same post, where you use these childish terms, coined by players who think less of people who dont play ultra-aggressive COD run n gun gameplay? Are you serious?

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NerdCoreTV

I really enjoy to team up with others. often as scav, with other scav-players. i would love to see that more often with PMC. it would be nice to get VOIP, so in a radius x you can talk to each other. this would also help to get quest done faster, because be honest why would i kill a player who is laying in the gras on woods who plants this and that? but i also dont see this as shooter only. i`m really more the guy who wants to team-up.

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ShiroTenshi

I could see the Karma system negatively affecting XP for killing other PMCs that you are not supposed to. From what we know,  Karma engagement rules may be map specific so it could work. Some maps you can kill any PMC no problem, others you would get XP penalties.

Doesn't change the fact you still have the option of doing it, and will still be able to get gear off your kills but it won't be all positive.

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ACuddlyBadger

I'm not a PMC. Im an ex PMC and I am on my own, my uniform is just to keep me from being naked.

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p4nnus
37 minutes ago, ACuddlyBadger said:

I'm not a PMC. Im an ex PMC and I am on my own, my uniform is just to keep me from being naked.

But theres life after escaping Tarkov.. or is there? :scwhink:

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-Tkullberg-
On 11/24/2020 at 12:40 PM, chrisragnar said:

This would be the ultimate way to increase amount of hatchet types that just sprint around looting all good things without any risk.

I get you think it will be all epic and "realistic", but honestly it will be people sprinting past you to get to the loot first, and people sprinting in and out of cover desperately trying to figure out if the other player will shoot them or not. 

The new sprint meta

Now not rewarding xp for kills might work. But removing XP for player kills would be very detrimental.

What about remove the "find in raid" for those who using hatching/pistol only?

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L-Sakata
On 11/24/2020 at 9:30 AM, p4nnus said:

Doing things will gain you experience in said things. Killing shouldnt be any different. Im pretty sure people get better at it anyways, IRL too.

Yeah.  This is definitely correct.  That is why we have BEAST in USAF BMT (both still have 'basic' in the acronym), but then you have BCT for the USMC, and I think they also require MCT afterwards -- not sure if that is for all MOS or ones that might see combat. Then each branch has their specialized infantry, USAF had SEAR, Army's got Rangers, USMC have SEALs, etc.

More training, more effectiveness. More actual experience, is that much more effective... though there are possible problems afterwards.

That last bit might be worth exploring in the game... makes your character get panicked breathing over hearing even the smallest of sounds. Or everyone looking like an enemy (maybe for scavs, everyone looks like a PMC, and visa versa). Maybe for the game it doesn't end up as long lasting, but would be an interesting mechanic to explore.

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p4nnus
8 hours ago, L-Sakata said:

Yeah.  This is definitely correct.  That is why we have BEAST in USAF BMT (both still have 'basic' in the acronym), but then you have BCT for the USMC, and I think they also require MCT afterwards -- not sure if that is for all MOS or ones that might see combat. Then each branch has their specialized infantry, USAF had SEAR, Army's got Rangers, USMC have SEALs, etc.

More training, more effectiveness. More actual experience, is that much more effective... though there are possible problems afterwards.

That last bit might be worth exploring in the game... makes your character get panicked breathing over hearing even the smallest of sounds. Or everyone looking like an enemy (maybe for scavs, everyone looks like a PMC, and visa versa). Maybe for the game it doesn't end up as long lasting, but would be an interesting mechanic to explore.

We only have FRDF, special jaegers and special border jaegers.. :schappy:

But yeah, this is a no brainer for anyone who thinks about it. Pretty much any skill works this way IRL. 

Ive suffered from mild PTSD, not military related, I havent deployed, just trained for a year. (I got hit by a car = PTSD). Anyways, with some experience from that, the possibility of psychological symptoms from high stress situations and how they would fit in EFT would be interesting.

I wouldnt tie it to XP loss, but maybe your stress resistance could have this bar that fills up very slowly and if you are completely stressed out and maybe a little shell-shocked, you might for example shout sth when theres grenades close to you or when you fire your weapon/hit your enemy. Im thinking sth like there is in Red Orchestra & Rising Storm, but maybe the player shouldnt be as chatty as in those games, but just very rarely making these sounds even when full on PTSD. This could be tied to the stress resistance level. Shooting people from your PMC would increase it more, as this would have an increased psychological effect on you compared to shooting the ones who were always your enemies.

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